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Part of George Hooper Oral History
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Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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George Hooper
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York
Transcribed by Nancy Decker
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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Transcript – George Hooper
Interviewee: Dr. George Hooper
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
Interview Date: May 21, 2002
Location: Archives and Special Collections Reading Room in the Cannavino Library
CD No:
24
Topic: Marist College History
See Also:
MHP-Oral History
Subject Heading: Hooper, George Bates
Marist Brothers-United States-History
Marist College-History
Marist College- (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College-Social Aspects
Summary: George discusses his early education, and personal life and his college
experience and his interest in becoming a Biologist, and then as a college professor. He also
recalls the development of the Biology Department, the coming of new faculty and several
issues such as the relationship between faculty and administration. One also learns of George’s
principal hobby fly fishing.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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Gus Nolan (00:03): I have an introductory statement. This morning,
this is May 21
st
. We’re interviewing Dr. George Hooper, Professor Emeritus. He worked in
the Biology Department here at Marist College. This is an interview for the Archives. It’s
taking place in the library. It’s Tuesday morning, about ten o’clock.
Gus Nolan (00:27): Good morning George.
George Hooper (00:28): Good morning.
GN (00:29): George, will you give us your full name please?
GH (00:33): Full name, George Bates Hooper.
GN (00:37): Okay, were you named after any member of your family?
GH (00:41): My father.
GN (00:43: Named after your father.
GH (00:44): No, my grandfather, my grandfather.
GN (00:48): Okay, where and when were you born?
GH (00:52): Philadelphia, November 23, 1924.
GN (00:58 : Okay, do you have any other members in the family, brothers and sisters?
GH (01:02): I have two brothers.
GN (01:04): Are they still alive?
GH (01:06): Yes.
GN (01:08): Where are they?
GH (01:09): My younger brother, well, they’re both younger, he’s Robert. He’s named after
my father, lives in California. He’s retired from the FBI and my youngest brother is about
three years younger than I am, lives in Rhode Island. He was a college football coach for
twenty-five years, developed his own business and now retired.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
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GN (01:52): Good. What about your early education? Where did you go to school, your
grade school and high school?
GH (01:57): Well, I went to grade school in Livingston, New Jersey through the eighth
grade. I went to ninth grade, was in West Orange at a junior high, can’t think of the
name of it now and then I went to West Orange High School, graduated in… Matter of
fact, we’re having out sixtieth high school reunion in, a week from Sunday, so I
graduated in ‘42.
GN (02:31): Yes.
GH (02:33): Brendan Byrne, who was the governor in New Jersey for two sessions (1974-
82) is a classmate so I see him there.
GN (02:47): Oh, Very good.
GH (02:48): I went to Seton Hall.
GN (02:49): Okay, we will pick up on the graduate work in a minute.
GH (02:50): Okay.
GN (02:51) : Still on the family, what were your parent’s names and what did your father
do?
GH (02:57): My father, Robert B. Hooper, Robert Brundage Hooper, he was a salesman for
the Orange Screen Company in Maplewood, New Jersey for many years. My mother
was a housewife, Lillian C. Hooper; her maiden name is Schmidt. Of course they
have both died.
GN (03:26): Yes. Coming on now, talking about your personal life, you went to Seton
Hall, did you say?
GH (03:33): Yes.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
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GN (03:36): Okay, did you do four years or was service involved in there?
GH (03:40): Yes, I graduated in ‘42 from high school and before too long I wanted to
join the Navy and ended up in the Merchant Marines, the maritime service, so I served
three years as a purser pharmacist mate on two liberty ships. Came out in ‘46 I
think it was 19-, yes, ’46 I attended Seton Hall College.
GN (04:21): Okay, while in the military in the maritime, were you involved in the war
efforts? Were the Liberty Ships actually involved?
GH (04:28): Well yes, war efforts we, I spent two years during the war on one ship
traveling around the world and carrying cargo, I don’t know what… No exploits but we
had been in many convoys, none of them were ever attacks I guess, we could hear the
depth charges.
GN (05:03): But you weren’t hit at anytime?
GH (05:04): No.
GN (05:05): Thank God. Okay, moving on to Seton Hall. Then you went into Seton Hall.
GH (05:10): Right, right. I was going to, I hadn’t anticipated going to college. I don’t
know, I grew up in a family where not, there were no college graduates but I went
along with many others at that time.
GN (05:29): The G.I. Bill of Rights came in.
GH (05:31): Well I didn’t have the G.I. Bill, but I had saved my money and attended Seton
Hall and graduated in three years.
GN (05:40): Now where did you meet Kay, whom you eventually married?
GH (05:43): We met, we grew up in the same town, we skated in the same ponds, got to
know one another and I guess it was after, after the war, after World War II.
Interviewee: George Hooper
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GN (06:00): And you married in what year?
GH (06:04): 1950.
GN (06:05): Okay.
GH (06:06): I was in the army then.
GN (06:08): Okay and what were, can you name the children now and where are they?
GH (06:14): Well, our oldest is Carol Ann, married and lives in Staatsburg. My son George
is… Carol Ann has two children. George lives in Staatsburg, has two children. My
next son is Roger and lives in Freedom Plains I guess and our youngest, he has no
children, he’s married and has no children and our youngest has two children and she
lives out in Albuquerque.
GN (07:07): Oh, okay so you have some family close by and some at a distance.
GH (07:09): Right, we have three of our children are close by and five of the grandchildren
and one grandchild is out there with my youngest daughter.
GN (07:21): What were some of things you did before you got into teaching at the college?
Do you have some careers, some jobs, occupations you were involved in or did you
go straight through as an academic?
GH (07:34): Well I, after I graduated from college, I was a pre-med student, applied to
medical school and was on a waiting list, then the Korean War came along and I was
drafted and I was the first draftee in New Jersey, unfortunately. They had to draft me
or else I would have been too old. So, I got out of college and then spent a year
preparing to go to medical school and taking a couple of extra courses and working
at Curtis-Wright, a company that manufactured propellers. And then before I could get
into medical school, I was drafted and spent twenty-one months in the army. Eleven of
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that was in Korea.
GN (08:40): Okay and where does the break and when do you go to graduate school to do
the study in Biology to get your Doctorate?
GH (08:45): Okay, I graduated with a degree in Pre-Medicine I guess. It was really a
Biology degree with some Chemistry and Physics. I lost my train of thought.
GN (09:07): Graduate school.
GH (09:08): Yes, I had applied to medical school and I applied to graduate school. I was
accepted at Rutgers before I was drafted and then I applied to Princeton when I was in
service and followed through with that when I came out and was accepted, surprisingly
so I left the army in the Spring of ‘52 I guess and started graduate school in the
Fall of ‘52.
GN (09:55): Okay, when did you develop the interest in fruit flies?
GH (10:01): Well, my doctoral dissertation concerned the study of the behavior and the
physiology of two species of fruit flies.
GN (10:15): Okay, I don’t want a dissertation on that now, thank you; just wanted to put it
into perspective. [Laughter] Okay, how did you get to Marist, what’s the connection,
George, of coming to Marist?
GH (10:28): Well, I spent four years, five years at Princeton, three as a graduate student, two
as a postdoc and then I wanted to get out on my own and took a job, position at Bard
College in ’57 and spent three years there as the, at the time, the only Biologist
and then we had another person but there was a small department and it was a small
school. I felt somewhat uncomfortable and decided that I wanted to leave and to seek a
more traditional institution. Well, advertised and looked in the paper and as I recall,
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I guess Marist was advertising for a Biologist and so I, it was only a short visit. We
liked the area. One of the reasons we settled at Bard was because it was reminiscent
of the area that I grew up in, which is radically changed now but or which is at least
still up here.
GN (12:02): Countrified.
GH (12:04): So, I didn’t want to move away, if you know what I’m saying.
GN (12:09): I see.
GH (12:10): I was content to stay in the Mid-Hudson Valley and Marist was, it was
Marian College then.
GN (12:19): Yes, it was, right. Who did you meet when you came here? Was Linus Foy
here?
GH (12:24): Yes, I met Dr. Schroeder, John Schroeder. He, I guess interviewed Kay and
myself and I did see Linus as I was being interviewed. He just sort of walked past but
I don’t know when I actually met him for the first time formally.
GN (12:54): And about what year was that?
GH (12:56): 1960. That was the summer or the spring of 1960.
GN (13:04): And so you started teaching here then in the fall of 1960. Okay was the
Donnelly building up yet?
GH (13:13): [Laughter] It was being rushed to completion. It wasn’t quite ready for
opening day. They were still laying cement in the walks but we had moved in there.
Actually, Biology was in the old library.
GN (13:31): Greystone.
GH (13:32): The old library building there, the one that was torn down. I replaced Brother
Interviewee: George Hooper
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Paul Stokes, who was, I guess moving into other positions at the college.
GN (13:47): Okay, what were your first assignments here then? Did you teach Biology
classes only?
GH (13:51): Yes, I taught Biology.
GN (13:54): There were that many students to teach, you were full-time?
GH (13:56): Yes, there were a few; I think there were four or five lay students.
GN (13:58): I see.
GH (14:03): I don’t remember all their names, but and of course the Brothers. They put
me in charge, I guess I had a choice of extracurricular as the yearbook or extra-murals
or intramurals, which is… I opted for the intramurals but I guess I didn’t last for very
long. [Laughter] That was a strange assignment for me, you know after coming from
graduate school and steeped in the academics.
GN (14:43): What surprises me is that you were looking for a traditional college and you
came here from Bard.
GH (14:49): Well what I mean by traditional, Bard was, it still is I guess, it was
academically very strong there’s no question about that and I was asked to stay. It
was my choice to leave but I just felt that it wasn’t going to change and there was a
financial issue. They couldn’t issue contracts one year on time. Eventually they did
because the college was in a financial strait and I was a more conservative, had a more
conservative outlook, I wasn’t that into the freer side of life.
GN (15:40): Experimentations of that day?
GH (15:43): They opted for seminars as opposed to lectures but really you, in science, I
lecture, and I just felt that in line with the way the college operated, discussion, the
Interviewee: George Hooper
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Socratic Method would be more in line with the way it should be done there. It was
uncomfortable for me so I was just kind of uncomfortable being there and traditional
meaning Marist where there are classes and lectures.
GN (16:24): So far as the academics are concerned lectures and tests.
GH (16:26): This is what I was familiar with.
GN (16:30): Right, okay good. Let’s talk about the department then. Did you move in as a
chair of the department from the beginning or was that?
GH (16:38): Well, yes, I think I was. Well, there were probably two people I tried to recall.
They didn’t call us chairs, they called us department representatives I think at that time.
GN (16:55): You were that person?
GH (16:58): Yes, I served as, there were two people, one of two people [Laughter] but I
signed the vouchers when we wanted to order things and I put in the requisitions and
that kind of thing.
GN (17:13) : Fine, okay. When does the development start, the coming of the increased
faculty, like Dr. Joe Bettencourt and Bill Perrotte and Hugh Turley.
GH (17:21): It was in the sixties. We had a Physiologist, Tom Haresign, and he was here
before Bill Perrotte and Joe Bettencourt, Dan Bean, who when I went back to Princeton
for a year, I hired him and he took over so I can’t recall whether there was more than
one person at that time. Eventually we got Joe Bettencourt and then?
GN (18:03): When does Hugh Turley come?
GH (18:05): In that time period I don’t know and Bill Perrotte all within the mid-sixties.
The college was hiring and the numbers of lay students were increasing.
GN (18:17): Was there any discussion about which way the Biology Department would go
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in the developmental part? Were there options? Could it have been more pre-med,
could it have been traditional?
GH (18:28): Yes, there were discussions of that type and we… One of the criteria that kind
of defined the road that you were going to take at the department in Biology was
whether you were going, well the requirements, whether you were going to require
Organic Chemistry and Physics. At that time, Biology majors, we were non-accredited
with regard to Middle States so we were not... Students were interested in Science, but
they were not necessarily the strongest students. So we opted for not requiring Organic
and Physics to meet the major field requirement. This was talked about and debated
but that set the tone for the department. I’m not sure if I had to do it over again that I
would accept that because I still think we’re suffering from that original orientation
in Science, at least in Biology.
GN (19:55): Now Biology became also a service department as it were, for other areas.
Did Psychology have to take Biology?
GH (20:05): They did for a while. [Laughter] Then they backed away much to our chagrin.
GN (2012): Or happiness. [Laughter]
GH (20:14): Yes, I guess they felt that and I suppose at the time we offered a one
semester course instead of general Biology. Yes, these are events that happened.
GN (20:38): The parallel development of course is the college itself, so that we had began
going from a sixty-sixty kind of a free operation to eventually a Core Program and
in the Core Program, Science was going to be required of the whole college. So you
had to fill up your faculty, you had to have more members aboard to do all of that.
GH (21:03): Yes I, some of these sequences or chronologies is not exactly clear but I
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think… Well eventually, we offered one of the three credits ones and one semester courses in
Biology and then later on Environmental Science. I think we began with requiring general
Biology and I think everyone had to take general Biology there for a while. That was another
reason that limited the rigor of the general Biology course. You certainly couldn’t expect non-
Science majors to meet the same expectations or demands of a Science major or Biology
major.
GN (22:04): Right, okay on another level were you not involved in the development of the
faculty in terms of committee work, the development, the FEC and the FAC and
the whole tenure process? Was that not a part of your experience?
GH (22:24): Yes, I seem to be on; I don’t think I was ever on the faculty development,
no, I was on CFD then.
GN (22:34): Committee of Faculty Development?
GH (22:36): Committee of Faculty Development and I was on that for a number of years.
GN (22:42): And they gave tenure at the end; they were the committee you went to for
tenure?
GH (22:46): Yes, that was their present Rank and Tenure committee. We dealt with both
promotions and tenure.
GN (22:57): Right, and then the whole development of the faculty as a body, representatives
in terms of speaking for the faculty to the administration, we kind of got two different
tracks going. There was the administration point of view often times and there was the
faculty point of view.
GH (23:21): Right. [Laughter] There was.
GN (23:24): And you played a part in voicing each of them. [Laughter]
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GH (23:27): Yes I, I don’t… Now that you asked the question, it seemed that I was, much of
the time that we had begun to deal with these issues in a way, I was a divisional
chair. I became a divisional chair in ‘69 well before any of the other divisions,
now schools at the college.
GN (24:01): Right.
GH (24:02): I guess I don’t have a good, maybe others could judge where I sat on that. I
think I was kind of on the fence since I had to deal as an administrator and also but
I was on faculty committees so I was still a faculty member. I was involved in this
body that met kind of, I don’t know, secretively but it certainly wasn’t announced,
the group of faculty.
GN (24:46): Okay, okay, I remember those days. I want to come back to something more
in the public arena. You recall the process of getting accredited for Middle States
and did you not play a part in that?
GH (24:55): Yes, I don’t think it was a role as a faculty member or as the department
representative, probably a divisional chair, so I had certain responsibilities there.
I don’t think I was ever on the committee that had to create the document.
GN (25:24): I see.
GH (25:25): So in that sense, I played a lesser role I think.
GN (25:32): But also, you as the chair, there’s a development in terms of the physical
capabilities of the college. The labs for instance developed under your tenure there
to meet those expectations.
GH (25:47): Well, I don’t know to what extent. There was a lot that I could do. I mean the
decisions, we moved into Donnelly. Certainly the laboratories, I didn’t think, I think
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they were temporary. Certainly the expectation was that they were going to get better
but we lived for many years with those. In fact it wasn’t until I retired that they
renovated, made major renovations on Donnelly and created much better laboratories.
[Laughter] So, I don’t know whether that played a large role in Middle States
accreditation; I mean we lived with what we had.
GN (26:48): Yes.
GH (26:49): And we tried to put our best foot forward I guess.
GN (26:55): Eventually we made the mark though, we did get accepted.
GH (26:57): We got it, sure we got it.
GN (27:00): Let’s talk a little bit about the physical development of the campus. What
strikes you now between your early arrival here and where we are today? You saw the
growth and progress of all this, the McCann Center, do you remember that going up?
GH (27:20): Right, well first it was the dorms and then I guess that was followed by the
three dorms, Champagnat, Sheahan and Leo.
GN (27:30): The Sheahan, Leo and finally Champagnat, okay.
GH (27:32): And then I guess the next, what I remember as I’m sure many do there was
seems every year there were new buildings. There was this growth in the college
in the physical structures along with the academics, so that seemed continuous to me
and when it plateaued for a year or two and Linus retired, the growth continued. So the
college has continued to change.
GN (28:25): Right, let me, in this process, I’m not sure where you would fit into the use of
some of the area capabilities and facilities like the Hudson River. Were you involved
in some developments of the Biology students using the river for research and then on
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the other side, the Carey Arboretum?
GH (28:48): Yes, I was involved more with Carey Arboretum, now the Institute for
Ecosystem Studies or on Ecosystem System Studies, I never get it right. We had a
closer relationship I think than exists now. Some of their researchers taught here and they in
turn accepted a number of our students, Biology majors, to work as interns there. We
attempted to develop through a Title, one of the Title III, Title VI, one of those grants, a
graduate program in Botany, but there wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm I think and we weren’t really
prepared to do that.
GN (29:50): It didn’t come to be.
GH (29:52): It didn’t come to be, the grant came to be in other areas but not in it. The point
being and in answer to your question my association was primarily in that direction;
and with the previous director, Bill, I forget his last name but not with the new
director.
GN (30:18): The administration there. Okay, moving on to the administration and making
some comparisons. You lived under both presidents, Foy and Murray. We’ve asked a
number of people to comment on what was their experience under Linus Foy, how
interacting with him, on leadership, positive characteristics that he had that made the
campus develop and made the college develop?
GH (30:48): Well, yes, he certainly seemed to me the right person at the right time. He
was, I could see growth and there was opportunities to participate in that, so I felt that
I was contributing and it was in part because of the way Linus dealt with the faculty.
A lot of the decisions I wasn’t involved in but they were ones that I certainly could
agree with and they had decisions on I guess co-education.
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GN (31:53): The name change.
GH (31:54): Oh yes, well that happened before I even got here. I signed my contract at
Marian College and I arrived here when it was Marist College. I did have some
disappointments. We were a college that was tuition dependent, we didn’t have a lot
of money, still don’t I guess and therefore this colored decisions. I was disappointed
that we didn’t go into nursing. We were going to move into that area and we were
just about to hire someone. I forget, I guess it was piggy, piggyback nursing now that
was going to build on the community college nurses. I forget some of the details but
then this woman we were going to hire didn’t come and then we backed away and I
gather that, you heard different stories that it was too soon to bring women on to the
campus or it was a financial risk. It wasn’t my decision. It sort of came and everyone
got excited and then it dissipated.
GN (33:16): But then it was really a faculty decision when we were to be associated with
St. Francis nursing school and we would put up a dormitory and they would take
courses here but they would be the only women on campus.
GH (33:30): Yes, the details, let me recall. In light of the same decision later on with
Dennis, I say it was a faculty decision but I felt that it was really the administration.
Administration but it impacted my area, this is the point. I feel even today that the
Sciences are not as strong as they should be. The college has grown and other
departments have emerged, other schools have emerged, and Science is still
struggling. I think that it’s either decisions that I can’t question but I think they were
tied to our own fear of the cost and if you have so much money to expend on programs,
you have to make choices where your investments.
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GN (34:48): Yes, someone is going to suffer because of the investment.
GH (34:50): Where your investment is sounder but that still hurts. It still hurts to this day
and I don’t think Marist is really going to do anything much in Science.
GN (35:01): Right, changing the administration to Dennis Murray, what’s your image now
of his impact on the campus? Is it strong in terms of the physical development, the
financial development, the academic, the attraction of students, what do you think
would be his strongest?
GH (35:19): Well, at the time he was hired, I think I was on the committee that
recommended him, he appeared to be just what the college needed to pick up
from and to continue, what Linus had brought forward.
GN (35:43): Initiated.
GH (35:44): New endeavors and that has happened. We have continued to grow and I
think that that was at the time what we wanted and the college has benefited from it.
GN (36:07): That was twenty-two years ago, that decision was made.
GH (36:09): That was twenty-two years ago. When you, I still see the college growing. I
have been involved in some decisions, near some decisions where I’ve said, “Oh my
God, you’re not going to do that,” but when we did this thing, some of the graduate
programs in Computer Science that they were risky but they were the right decision.
The issues we referred to briefly between administration and faculty remain and those
issues from what I gather that exist today were similar to the ones that were here for
the twelve or so years which I was here, you know. But that’s not uncommon in
college campuses, institutions. Faculty and administration tend to be at odds I guess
and so the college has grown. From an outsider now, you talk about it and its people
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speak highly.
GN (37:37): Do you think it has lost something in its growth?
GH (37:40): Well, the college, I think that it was fortunate to have saved a lot of what it had.
Yes, it has lost because it has grown; we’ve hired people whose commitment was not
as deep, not as genuine but that’s understandable. That we’re in a market place,
people come and go and the college is changing. It’s getting bigger, it’s becoming
more formal. There was a time when we first started; one could make changes almost
weekly; the faculty could get together and make major, take votes on major issues,
you can’t do that now. But that’s the normal progress of change and development
and as we move into and yet, I still feel that the college is looking for its niche. You
find the controversy between research and teaching; that’s still an issue and it’s too
much of an issue I think and I speak only now as an outsider from conversations I’ve
had over the years.
GN (39:17): Okay, let me just put something in focus; you came here in 1960?
GH (39:22): Right.
GN (39:24): And you retired in 1990?
GH (39:27): Well it was, I guess it was 1990 and then I spent that half year, I spent a year, at
half time.
GN (39:35): So you were here thirty years?
GH (39:36): Thirty, thirty-one years.
GN (39:38): That’s a long time.
GH (39:40): That’s a long time. How long have you been here?
GN (39:42): Well, about the same. [Laughter]
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GH (39:43): Longer than that. [Laughter]
GN (39:44): Well, but I was not as distinguished as you were in my time. [Laughter] What
do you think now in your retirement, what would you say were your best contributions
here? Was it on the interpersonal level, encouraging, helping teachers along?
GH (40:09): I often ask myself the question and I have offered, I have asked myself the
question; what do you feel your role is? I started off primarily as a teacher, instructor,
I mean professor and then as time went on, I slowly moved towards administration
and I recognize that my teaching was not as good as I would have hoped it would be,
the kind of feed back I would like. I was honest with myself in that regard so
administration seemed to be a natural shift. I guess others recognized that too. I’m
not naïve enough to think that these are all my decisions and so the contribution that I
think I have made; although I have enjoyed my teaching and I have made many
fine friends and I’ve impressed a number of students, at least from their letters but I
think my ability to work with faculty. I think our division had the best rapport among
the faculty. And that even included, although it became a little bit more difficult
when the Sciences were associated within the division with Computer Science and
Math. Computer Science and Math in the beginning but my style was not, was as a
facilitator and I think that worked. Until today, I still have good relations with many
of the faculty.
GN (42:27): I think you created a great spirit in the lunch room for instance, the opening up
of the labs for faculty to come and cross sections, cross winds were in there.
GH (42:37): Yes that’s right; we used to have lunches where we used to go off campus
and we used to invite people from, one or two from some other area of the college;
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
20
not necessarily from the faculty. And of course our lunches we always met, it
was a meeting place where people just came but that really began I think when we had
our cafeteria in lower Donnelly and there was a faculty group that met there in lower
Donnelly at lunch just to talk, it was not set up. It just happened and I think our having
remained in Donnelly as a division, we still perpetuated that beginning and of course
we had faculty, Richard LaPietra for instance, he I think was very supportive; he
encouraged that and others and it just kind of grew.
GN (43:58): What would you say changed that you would like to have not change or a
change you would like to see take place? Are there some areas that, a direction we
should begin to look at in going in terms of the spirit of the faculty? Is it too formal,
is it; is there a need for more interaction on a personal level?
GH (44:28): Well, I don’t know that, I hope, I think that I mentioned before, I’m not sure
that the college has quite found it’s niche yet. We’re no different than a number of
other colleges that are trying to grow and acquire stature and at some point I think,
I would like to think that a decision could be reached where expectations for faculty
and administration can be generally agreed upon and this I would hope would bring
about a greater rapport. I think that’s what I would like to see happen. Maybe it’s
wishful thinking, maybe you say, “Well you can’t do that, you have to continue to
improve and to get better students and so forth and so on.” Well, somehow or other I
would like to see a discussion where, at what point does one say, “This is where we
want to be, let’s develop ourselves within this paradigm or this, this model.”
GN (45:53): Would you endorse a two track system where some may decide to do more
research and publish, or do you publish or perish?
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
21
GH (46:05): Yes I think that we’re certainly not a university and compare ourselves with
Vassar and years ago when I first came here; there were faculty at Vassar who
published. Publishing was not that crucial. It’s quite different now but they have the
resources to allow faculty to work with a reduced load and allow that to happen. I
don’t think that can happen here easily and certainly not with the mature faculty. It’s
only with the younger faculty that are just coming in. I see that, trying to define that,
where we are, that will help us in working out where we’re going. I still think that
we’re still moving upwards and this is the impression you get from all the things that
are being said but see, I think Bard College has refined itself as small. It’s a lot larger now
than when I was there but how it does things, how it gets things done, how the Sciences work
and the way that they do things, I’m not sure that we’re still searching for the way we want to
do it.
GN (47:59): Yes there’s kind of a conflict in, on one hand I think we kind of endorse the
idea of distant learning and people taking courses from Marist and not coming here and on the
other hand we say we have a focal point, we have an ideal location, people, our salvation will
be people coming here.
GH (48:21): Well of course, the whole revolution, evolution in telecommunications.
GN (48:33): The whole technology behind.
GH (48:36): Technology and the computers and the web and the internet and so yes,
it’s very hard for institutions like Marist to work within that and define yourself. I
don’t have answers to that, I just recognize that it’s a serious problem. My only
experience is, when television became more popular, we tried television classroom
courses through television and that didn’t seem to work. That was an experiment that
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
22
you needed the teacher in the classroom and for the most part, for us. That’s a major
challenge and I can only grasp it now, having been out of it and it’s only a glimmer
out there but I don’t know how the colleges like Marist are going to handle that.
GN (49:49): Okay, more pleasant things and things you do often, what are you doing now in
your retirement; are you keeping busy?
GH (49:57): Yes sure.
GN (50:00): What are two things that you do?
GH (50:02): Well, I, as you know, I’m an ardent fly fisherman and fly tier, so I teach courses
in fly tying.
GN (50:13): Where are those courses taught, not here are they?
GH (50:16): No, they’re, although members of our chapter, Tom Lynch and Bob Breslin
do offer a course here in fly fishing now but no, I teach up in Don’s Tackle Service.
It’s a Norvis store up in Red Hook so I’ve done that for years when it was down
here, it was in Poughkeepsie for many years. So, I’ve done that for I guess.
GN (50:42): Are you involved in ongoing learning, where senior citizens.
GH (50:46): Yes, I was involved as a charter member, in the Center for Lifetime Study. I
guess Marc van der Heyden mentioned that there was going to be a series of meetings
so I was involved right from the beginning, the initiation of this college within a
college. Really it’s a senior college within Marist College and served as the second
president for two years and served on the council for five, so now I’m just taking
courses.
GN (51:31): Do you give some courses in Biology?
GH (51:33): I taught some courses, yes. I gave some lectures and I taught two courses.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
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GN (51:43): In conclusion, is there something that I didn’t ask you, that maybe you would
like to tell us either on your experience, friendships.
GH (51:53): Well, my first visit to the college I guess I came to see Brother Paul Stokes
and he just threw open his arms; I guess he thought, aha, here’s my replacement.
[Laughter] I don’t know but that immediate impression, that has persisted you know,
not only through one person, all through the Brothers for the most part and the Marist
Brothers and it continues to this day. I’m not really a person who involves oneself
easily. I tend to be more apart, but work at the college has allowed me to express my
own personality I suppose and it’s a place where I’ve grown up professionally and I
don’t want it to go away. [Laughter]
GN (53:17): Well, we don’t want you to go away. [Laughter] Okay George, thank you very
much.
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
1
George Hooper
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York
Transcribed by Nancy Decker
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
2
Transcript – George Hooper
Interviewee: Dr. George Hooper
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
Interview Date: May 21, 2002
Location: Archives and Special Collections Reading Room in the Cannavino Library
CD No:
24
Topic: Marist College History
See Also:
MHP-Oral History
Subject Heading: Hooper, George Bates
Marist Brothers-United States-History
Marist College-History
Marist College- (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College-Social Aspects
Summary: George discusses his early education, and personal life and his college
experience and his interest in becoming a Biologist, and then as a college professor. He also
recalls the development of the Biology Department, the coming of new faculty and several
issues such as the relationship between faculty and administration. One also learns of George’s
principal hobby fly fishing.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
3
Gus Nolan (00:03): I have an introductory statement. This morning,
this is May 21
st
. We’re interviewing Dr. George Hooper, Professor Emeritus. He worked in
the Biology Department here at Marist College. This is an interview for the Archives. It’s
taking place in the library. It’s Tuesday morning, about ten o’clock.
Gus Nolan (00:27): Good morning George.
George Hooper (00:28): Good morning.
GN (00:29): George, will you give us your full name please?
GH (00:33): Full name, George Bates Hooper.
GN (00:37): Okay, were you named after any member of your family?
GH (00:41): My father.
GN (00:43: Named after your father.
GH (00:44): No, my grandfather, my grandfather.
GN (00:48): Okay, where and when were you born?
GH (00:52): Philadelphia, November 23, 1924.
GN (00:58 : Okay, do you have any other members in the family, brothers and sisters?
GH (01:02): I have two brothers.
GN (01:04): Are they still alive?
GH (01:06): Yes.
GN (01:08): Where are they?
GH (01:09): My younger brother, well, they’re both younger, he’s Robert. He’s named after
my father, lives in California. He’s retired from the FBI and my youngest brother is about
three years younger than I am, lives in Rhode Island. He was a college football coach for
twenty-five years, developed his own business and now retired.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
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GN (01:52): Good. What about your early education? Where did you go to school, your
grade school and high school?
GH (01:57): Well, I went to grade school in Livingston, New Jersey through the eighth
grade. I went to ninth grade, was in West Orange at a junior high, can’t think of the
name of it now and then I went to West Orange High School, graduated in… Matter of
fact, we’re having out sixtieth high school reunion in, a week from Sunday, so I
graduated in ‘42.
GN (02:31): Yes.
GH (02:33): Brendan Byrne, who was the governor in New Jersey for two sessions (1974-
82) is a classmate so I see him there.
GN (02:47): Oh, Very good.
GH (02:48): I went to Seton Hall.
GN (02:49): Okay, we will pick up on the graduate work in a minute.
GH (02:50): Okay.
GN (02:51) : Still on the family, what were your parent’s names and what did your father
do?
GH (02:57): My father, Robert B. Hooper, Robert Brundage Hooper, he was a salesman for
the Orange Screen Company in Maplewood, New Jersey for many years. My mother
was a housewife, Lillian C. Hooper; her maiden name is Schmidt. Of course they
have both died.
GN (03:26): Yes. Coming on now, talking about your personal life, you went to Seton
Hall, did you say?
GH (03:33): Yes.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
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GN (03:36): Okay, did you do four years or was service involved in there?
GH (03:40): Yes, I graduated in ‘42 from high school and before too long I wanted to
join the Navy and ended up in the Merchant Marines, the maritime service, so I served
three years as a purser pharmacist mate on two liberty ships. Came out in ‘46 I
think it was 19-, yes, ’46 I attended Seton Hall College.
GN (04:21): Okay, while in the military in the maritime, were you involved in the war
efforts? Were the Liberty Ships actually involved?
GH (04:28): Well yes, war efforts we, I spent two years during the war on one ship
traveling around the world and carrying cargo, I don’t know what… No exploits but we
had been in many convoys, none of them were ever attacks I guess, we could hear the
depth charges.
GN (05:03): But you weren’t hit at anytime?
GH (05:04): No.
GN (05:05): Thank God. Okay, moving on to Seton Hall. Then you went into Seton Hall.
GH (05:10): Right, right. I was going to, I hadn’t anticipated going to college. I don’t
know, I grew up in a family where not, there were no college graduates but I went
along with many others at that time.
GN (05:29): The G.I. Bill of Rights came in.
GH (05:31): Well I didn’t have the G.I. Bill, but I had saved my money and attended Seton
Hall and graduated in three years.
GN (05:40): Now where did you meet Kay, whom you eventually married?
GH (05:43): We met, we grew up in the same town, we skated in the same ponds, got to
know one another and I guess it was after, after the war, after World War II.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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GN (06:00): And you married in what year?
GH (06:04): 1950.
GN (06:05): Okay.
GH (06:06): I was in the army then.
GN (06:08): Okay and what were, can you name the children now and where are they?
GH (06:14): Well, our oldest is Carol Ann, married and lives in Staatsburg. My son George
is… Carol Ann has two children. George lives in Staatsburg, has two children. My
next son is Roger and lives in Freedom Plains I guess and our youngest, he has no
children, he’s married and has no children and our youngest has two children and she
lives out in Albuquerque.
GN (07:07): Oh, okay so you have some family close by and some at a distance.
GH (07:09): Right, we have three of our children are close by and five of the grandchildren
and one grandchild is out there with my youngest daughter.
GN (07:21): What were some of things you did before you got into teaching at the college?
Do you have some careers, some jobs, occupations you were involved in or did you
go straight through as an academic?
GH (07:34): Well I, after I graduated from college, I was a pre-med student, applied to
medical school and was on a waiting list, then the Korean War came along and I was
drafted and I was the first draftee in New Jersey, unfortunately. They had to draft me
or else I would have been too old. So, I got out of college and then spent a year
preparing to go to medical school and taking a couple of extra courses and working
at Curtis-Wright, a company that manufactured propellers. And then before I could get
into medical school, I was drafted and spent twenty-one months in the army. Eleven of
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
7
that was in Korea.
GN (08:40): Okay and where does the break and when do you go to graduate school to do
the study in Biology to get your Doctorate?
GH (08:45): Okay, I graduated with a degree in Pre-Medicine I guess. It was really a
Biology degree with some Chemistry and Physics. I lost my train of thought.
GN (09:07): Graduate school.
GH (09:08): Yes, I had applied to medical school and I applied to graduate school. I was
accepted at Rutgers before I was drafted and then I applied to Princeton when I was in
service and followed through with that when I came out and was accepted, surprisingly
so I left the army in the Spring of ‘52 I guess and started graduate school in the
Fall of ‘52.
GN (09:55): Okay, when did you develop the interest in fruit flies?
GH (10:01): Well, my doctoral dissertation concerned the study of the behavior and the
physiology of two species of fruit flies.
GN (10:15): Okay, I don’t want a dissertation on that now, thank you; just wanted to put it
into perspective. [Laughter] Okay, how did you get to Marist, what’s the connection,
George, of coming to Marist?
GH (10:28): Well, I spent four years, five years at Princeton, three as a graduate student, two
as a postdoc and then I wanted to get out on my own and took a job, position at Bard
College in ’57 and spent three years there as the, at the time, the only Biologist
and then we had another person but there was a small department and it was a small
school. I felt somewhat uncomfortable and decided that I wanted to leave and to seek a
more traditional institution. Well, advertised and looked in the paper and as I recall,
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
8
I guess Marist was advertising for a Biologist and so I, it was only a short visit. We
liked the area. One of the reasons we settled at Bard was because it was reminiscent
of the area that I grew up in, which is radically changed now but or which is at least
still up here.
GN (12:02): Countrified.
GH (12:04): So, I didn’t want to move away, if you know what I’m saying.
GN (12:09): I see.
GH (12:10): I was content to stay in the Mid-Hudson Valley and Marist was, it was
Marian College then.
GN (12:19): Yes, it was, right. Who did you meet when you came here? Was Linus Foy
here?
GH (12:24): Yes, I met Dr. Schroeder, John Schroeder. He, I guess interviewed Kay and
myself and I did see Linus as I was being interviewed. He just sort of walked past but
I don’t know when I actually met him for the first time formally.
GN (12:54): And about what year was that?
GH (12:56): 1960. That was the summer or the spring of 1960.
GN (13:04): And so you started teaching here then in the fall of 1960. Okay was the
Donnelly building up yet?
GH (13:13): [Laughter] It was being rushed to completion. It wasn’t quite ready for
opening day. They were still laying cement in the walks but we had moved in there.
Actually, Biology was in the old library.
GN (13:31): Greystone.
GH (13:32): The old library building there, the one that was torn down. I replaced Brother
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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Paul Stokes, who was, I guess moving into other positions at the college.
GN (13:47): Okay, what were your first assignments here then? Did you teach Biology
classes only?
GH (13:51): Yes, I taught Biology.
GN (13:54): There were that many students to teach, you were full-time?
GH (13:56): Yes, there were a few; I think there were four or five lay students.
GN (13:58): I see.
GH (14:03): I don’t remember all their names, but and of course the Brothers. They put
me in charge, I guess I had a choice of extracurricular as the yearbook or extra-murals
or intramurals, which is… I opted for the intramurals but I guess I didn’t last for very
long. [Laughter] That was a strange assignment for me, you know after coming from
graduate school and steeped in the academics.
GN (14:43): What surprises me is that you were looking for a traditional college and you
came here from Bard.
GH (14:49): Well what I mean by traditional, Bard was, it still is I guess, it was
academically very strong there’s no question about that and I was asked to stay. It
was my choice to leave but I just felt that it wasn’t going to change and there was a
financial issue. They couldn’t issue contracts one year on time. Eventually they did
because the college was in a financial strait and I was a more conservative, had a more
conservative outlook, I wasn’t that into the freer side of life.
GN (15:40): Experimentations of that day?
GH (15:43): They opted for seminars as opposed to lectures but really you, in science, I
lecture, and I just felt that in line with the way the college operated, discussion, the
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
10
Socratic Method would be more in line with the way it should be done there. It was
uncomfortable for me so I was just kind of uncomfortable being there and traditional
meaning Marist where there are classes and lectures.
GN (16:24): So far as the academics are concerned lectures and tests.
GH (16:26): This is what I was familiar with.
GN (16:30): Right, okay good. Let’s talk about the department then. Did you move in as a
chair of the department from the beginning or was that?
GH (16:38): Well, yes, I think I was. Well, there were probably two people I tried to recall.
They didn’t call us chairs, they called us department representatives I think at that time.
GN (16:55): You were that person?
GH (16:58): Yes, I served as, there were two people, one of two people [Laughter] but I
signed the vouchers when we wanted to order things and I put in the requisitions and
that kind of thing.
GN (17:13) : Fine, okay. When does the development start, the coming of the increased
faculty, like Dr. Joe Bettencourt and Bill Perrotte and Hugh Turley.
GH (17:21): It was in the sixties. We had a Physiologist, Tom Haresign, and he was here
before Bill Perrotte and Joe Bettencourt, Dan Bean, who when I went back to Princeton
for a year, I hired him and he took over so I can’t recall whether there was more than
one person at that time. Eventually we got Joe Bettencourt and then?
GN (18:03): When does Hugh Turley come?
GH (18:05): In that time period I don’t know and Bill Perrotte all within the mid-sixties.
The college was hiring and the numbers of lay students were increasing.
GN (18:17): Was there any discussion about which way the Biology Department would go
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
11
in the developmental part? Were there options? Could it have been more pre-med,
could it have been traditional?
GH (18:28): Yes, there were discussions of that type and we… One of the criteria that kind
of defined the road that you were going to take at the department in Biology was
whether you were going, well the requirements, whether you were going to require
Organic Chemistry and Physics. At that time, Biology majors, we were non-accredited
with regard to Middle States so we were not... Students were interested in Science, but
they were not necessarily the strongest students. So we opted for not requiring Organic
and Physics to meet the major field requirement. This was talked about and debated
but that set the tone for the department. I’m not sure if I had to do it over again that I
would accept that because I still think we’re suffering from that original orientation
in Science, at least in Biology.
GN (19:55): Now Biology became also a service department as it were, for other areas.
Did Psychology have to take Biology?
GH (20:05): They did for a while. [Laughter] Then they backed away much to our chagrin.
GN (2012): Or happiness. [Laughter]
GH (20:14): Yes, I guess they felt that and I suppose at the time we offered a one
semester course instead of general Biology. Yes, these are events that happened.
GN (20:38): The parallel development of course is the college itself, so that we had began
going from a sixty-sixty kind of a free operation to eventually a Core Program and
in the Core Program, Science was going to be required of the whole college. So you
had to fill up your faculty, you had to have more members aboard to do all of that.
GH (21:03): Yes I, some of these sequences or chronologies is not exactly clear but I
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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think… Well eventually, we offered one of the three credits ones and one semester courses in
Biology and then later on Environmental Science. I think we began with requiring general
Biology and I think everyone had to take general Biology there for a while. That was another
reason that limited the rigor of the general Biology course. You certainly couldn’t expect non-
Science majors to meet the same expectations or demands of a Science major or Biology
major.
GN (22:04): Right, okay on another level were you not involved in the development of the
faculty in terms of committee work, the development, the FEC and the FAC and
the whole tenure process? Was that not a part of your experience?
GH (22:24): Yes, I seem to be on; I don’t think I was ever on the faculty development,
no, I was on CFD then.
GN (22:34): Committee of Faculty Development?
GH (22:36): Committee of Faculty Development and I was on that for a number of years.
GN (22:42): And they gave tenure at the end; they were the committee you went to for
tenure?
GH (22:46): Yes, that was their present Rank and Tenure committee. We dealt with both
promotions and tenure.
GN (22:57): Right, and then the whole development of the faculty as a body, representatives
in terms of speaking for the faculty to the administration, we kind of got two different
tracks going. There was the administration point of view often times and there was the
faculty point of view.
GH (23:21): Right. [Laughter] There was.
GN (23:24): And you played a part in voicing each of them. [Laughter]
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
13
GH (23:27): Yes I, I don’t… Now that you asked the question, it seemed that I was, much of
the time that we had begun to deal with these issues in a way, I was a divisional
chair. I became a divisional chair in ‘69 well before any of the other divisions,
now schools at the college.
GN (24:01): Right.
GH (24:02): I guess I don’t have a good, maybe others could judge where I sat on that. I
think I was kind of on the fence since I had to deal as an administrator and also but
I was on faculty committees so I was still a faculty member. I was involved in this
body that met kind of, I don’t know, secretively but it certainly wasn’t announced,
the group of faculty.
GN (24:46): Okay, okay, I remember those days. I want to come back to something more
in the public arena. You recall the process of getting accredited for Middle States
and did you not play a part in that?
GH (24:55): Yes, I don’t think it was a role as a faculty member or as the department
representative, probably a divisional chair, so I had certain responsibilities there.
I don’t think I was ever on the committee that had to create the document.
GN (25:24): I see.
GH (25:25): So in that sense, I played a lesser role I think.
GN (25:32): But also, you as the chair, there’s a development in terms of the physical
capabilities of the college. The labs for instance developed under your tenure there
to meet those expectations.
GH (25:47): Well, I don’t know to what extent. There was a lot that I could do. I mean the
decisions, we moved into Donnelly. Certainly the laboratories, I didn’t think, I think
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
14
they were temporary. Certainly the expectation was that they were going to get better
but we lived for many years with those. In fact it wasn’t until I retired that they
renovated, made major renovations on Donnelly and created much better laboratories.
[Laughter] So, I don’t know whether that played a large role in Middle States
accreditation; I mean we lived with what we had.
GN (26:48): Yes.
GH (26:49): And we tried to put our best foot forward I guess.
GN (26:55): Eventually we made the mark though, we did get accepted.
GH (26:57): We got it, sure we got it.
GN (27:00): Let’s talk a little bit about the physical development of the campus. What
strikes you now between your early arrival here and where we are today? You saw the
growth and progress of all this, the McCann Center, do you remember that going up?
GH (27:20): Right, well first it was the dorms and then I guess that was followed by the
three dorms, Champagnat, Sheahan and Leo.
GN (27:30): The Sheahan, Leo and finally Champagnat, okay.
GH (27:32): And then I guess the next, what I remember as I’m sure many do there was
seems every year there were new buildings. There was this growth in the college
in the physical structures along with the academics, so that seemed continuous to me
and when it plateaued for a year or two and Linus retired, the growth continued. So the
college has continued to change.
GN (28:25): Right, let me, in this process, I’m not sure where you would fit into the use of
some of the area capabilities and facilities like the Hudson River. Were you involved
in some developments of the Biology students using the river for research and then on
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
15
the other side, the Carey Arboretum?
GH (28:48): Yes, I was involved more with Carey Arboretum, now the Institute for
Ecosystem Studies or on Ecosystem System Studies, I never get it right. We had a
closer relationship I think than exists now. Some of their researchers taught here and they in
turn accepted a number of our students, Biology majors, to work as interns there. We
attempted to develop through a Title, one of the Title III, Title VI, one of those grants, a
graduate program in Botany, but there wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm I think and we weren’t really
prepared to do that.
GN (29:50): It didn’t come to be.
GH (29:52): It didn’t come to be, the grant came to be in other areas but not in it. The point
being and in answer to your question my association was primarily in that direction;
and with the previous director, Bill, I forget his last name but not with the new
director.
GN (30:18): The administration there. Okay, moving on to the administration and making
some comparisons. You lived under both presidents, Foy and Murray. We’ve asked a
number of people to comment on what was their experience under Linus Foy, how
interacting with him, on leadership, positive characteristics that he had that made the
campus develop and made the college develop?
GH (30:48): Well, yes, he certainly seemed to me the right person at the right time. He
was, I could see growth and there was opportunities to participate in that, so I felt that
I was contributing and it was in part because of the way Linus dealt with the faculty.
A lot of the decisions I wasn’t involved in but they were ones that I certainly could
agree with and they had decisions on I guess co-education.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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GN (31:53): The name change.
GH (31:54): Oh yes, well that happened before I even got here. I signed my contract at
Marian College and I arrived here when it was Marist College. I did have some
disappointments. We were a college that was tuition dependent, we didn’t have a lot
of money, still don’t I guess and therefore this colored decisions. I was disappointed
that we didn’t go into nursing. We were going to move into that area and we were
just about to hire someone. I forget, I guess it was piggy, piggyback nursing now that
was going to build on the community college nurses. I forget some of the details but
then this woman we were going to hire didn’t come and then we backed away and I
gather that, you heard different stories that it was too soon to bring women on to the
campus or it was a financial risk. It wasn’t my decision. It sort of came and everyone
got excited and then it dissipated.
GN (33:16): But then it was really a faculty decision when we were to be associated with
St. Francis nursing school and we would put up a dormitory and they would take
courses here but they would be the only women on campus.
GH (33:30): Yes, the details, let me recall. In light of the same decision later on with
Dennis, I say it was a faculty decision but I felt that it was really the administration.
Administration but it impacted my area, this is the point. I feel even today that the
Sciences are not as strong as they should be. The college has grown and other
departments have emerged, other schools have emerged, and Science is still
struggling. I think that it’s either decisions that I can’t question but I think they were
tied to our own fear of the cost and if you have so much money to expend on programs,
you have to make choices where your investments.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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GN (34:48): Yes, someone is going to suffer because of the investment.
GH (34:50): Where your investment is sounder but that still hurts. It still hurts to this day
and I don’t think Marist is really going to do anything much in Science.
GN (35:01): Right, changing the administration to Dennis Murray, what’s your image now
of his impact on the campus? Is it strong in terms of the physical development, the
financial development, the academic, the attraction of students, what do you think
would be his strongest?
GH (35:19): Well, at the time he was hired, I think I was on the committee that
recommended him, he appeared to be just what the college needed to pick up
from and to continue, what Linus had brought forward.
GN (35:43): Initiated.
GH (35:44): New endeavors and that has happened. We have continued to grow and I
think that that was at the time what we wanted and the college has benefited from it.
GN (36:07): That was twenty-two years ago, that decision was made.
GH (36:09): That was twenty-two years ago. When you, I still see the college growing. I
have been involved in some decisions, near some decisions where I’ve said, “Oh my
God, you’re not going to do that,” but when we did this thing, some of the graduate
programs in Computer Science that they were risky but they were the right decision.
The issues we referred to briefly between administration and faculty remain and those
issues from what I gather that exist today were similar to the ones that were here for
the twelve or so years which I was here, you know. But that’s not uncommon in
college campuses, institutions. Faculty and administration tend to be at odds I guess
and so the college has grown. From an outsider now, you talk about it and its people
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
18
speak highly.
GN (37:37): Do you think it has lost something in its growth?
GH (37:40): Well, the college, I think that it was fortunate to have saved a lot of what it had.
Yes, it has lost because it has grown; we’ve hired people whose commitment was not
as deep, not as genuine but that’s understandable. That we’re in a market place,
people come and go and the college is changing. It’s getting bigger, it’s becoming
more formal. There was a time when we first started; one could make changes almost
weekly; the faculty could get together and make major, take votes on major issues,
you can’t do that now. But that’s the normal progress of change and development
and as we move into and yet, I still feel that the college is looking for its niche. You
find the controversy between research and teaching; that’s still an issue and it’s too
much of an issue I think and I speak only now as an outsider from conversations I’ve
had over the years.
GN (39:17): Okay, let me just put something in focus; you came here in 1960?
GH (39:22): Right.
GN (39:24): And you retired in 1990?
GH (39:27): Well it was, I guess it was 1990 and then I spent that half year, I spent a year, at
half time.
GN (39:35): So you were here thirty years?
GH (39:36): Thirty, thirty-one years.
GN (39:38): That’s a long time.
GH (39:40): That’s a long time. How long have you been here?
GN (39:42): Well, about the same. [Laughter]
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
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GH (39:43): Longer than that. [Laughter]
GN (39:44): Well, but I was not as distinguished as you were in my time. [Laughter] What
do you think now in your retirement, what would you say were your best contributions
here? Was it on the interpersonal level, encouraging, helping teachers along?
GH (40:09): I often ask myself the question and I have offered, I have asked myself the
question; what do you feel your role is? I started off primarily as a teacher, instructor,
I mean professor and then as time went on, I slowly moved towards administration
and I recognize that my teaching was not as good as I would have hoped it would be,
the kind of feed back I would like. I was honest with myself in that regard so
administration seemed to be a natural shift. I guess others recognized that too. I’m
not naïve enough to think that these are all my decisions and so the contribution that I
think I have made; although I have enjoyed my teaching and I have made many
fine friends and I’ve impressed a number of students, at least from their letters but I
think my ability to work with faculty. I think our division had the best rapport among
the faculty. And that even included, although it became a little bit more difficult
when the Sciences were associated within the division with Computer Science and
Math. Computer Science and Math in the beginning but my style was not, was as a
facilitator and I think that worked. Until today, I still have good relations with many
of the faculty.
GN (42:27): I think you created a great spirit in the lunch room for instance, the opening up
of the labs for faculty to come and cross sections, cross winds were in there.
GH (42:37): Yes that’s right; we used to have lunches where we used to go off campus
and we used to invite people from, one or two from some other area of the college;
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
20
not necessarily from the faculty. And of course our lunches we always met, it
was a meeting place where people just came but that really began I think when we had
our cafeteria in lower Donnelly and there was a faculty group that met there in lower
Donnelly at lunch just to talk, it was not set up. It just happened and I think our having
remained in Donnelly as a division, we still perpetuated that beginning and of course
we had faculty, Richard LaPietra for instance, he I think was very supportive; he
encouraged that and others and it just kind of grew.
GN (43:58): What would you say changed that you would like to have not change or a
change you would like to see take place? Are there some areas that, a direction we
should begin to look at in going in terms of the spirit of the faculty? Is it too formal,
is it; is there a need for more interaction on a personal level?
GH (44:28): Well, I don’t know that, I hope, I think that I mentioned before, I’m not sure
that the college has quite found it’s niche yet. We’re no different than a number of
other colleges that are trying to grow and acquire stature and at some point I think,
I would like to think that a decision could be reached where expectations for faculty
and administration can be generally agreed upon and this I would hope would bring
about a greater rapport. I think that’s what I would like to see happen. Maybe it’s
wishful thinking, maybe you say, “Well you can’t do that, you have to continue to
improve and to get better students and so forth and so on.” Well, somehow or other I
would like to see a discussion where, at what point does one say, “This is where we
want to be, let’s develop ourselves within this paradigm or this, this model.”
GN (45:53): Would you endorse a two track system where some may decide to do more
research and publish, or do you publish or perish?
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
21
GH (46:05): Yes I think that we’re certainly not a university and compare ourselves with
Vassar and years ago when I first came here; there were faculty at Vassar who
published. Publishing was not that crucial. It’s quite different now but they have the
resources to allow faculty to work with a reduced load and allow that to happen. I
don’t think that can happen here easily and certainly not with the mature faculty. It’s
only with the younger faculty that are just coming in. I see that, trying to define that,
where we are, that will help us in working out where we’re going. I still think that
we’re still moving upwards and this is the impression you get from all the things that
are being said but see, I think Bard College has refined itself as small. It’s a lot larger now
than when I was there but how it does things, how it gets things done, how the Sciences work
and the way that they do things, I’m not sure that we’re still searching for the way we want to
do it.
GN (47:59): Yes there’s kind of a conflict in, on one hand I think we kind of endorse the
idea of distant learning and people taking courses from Marist and not coming here and on the
other hand we say we have a focal point, we have an ideal location, people, our salvation will
be people coming here.
GH (48:21): Well of course, the whole revolution, evolution in telecommunications.
GN (48:33): The whole technology behind.
GH (48:36): Technology and the computers and the web and the internet and so yes,
it’s very hard for institutions like Marist to work within that and define yourself. I
don’t have answers to that, I just recognize that it’s a serious problem. My only
experience is, when television became more popular, we tried television classroom
courses through television and that didn’t seem to work. That was an experiment that
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
22
you needed the teacher in the classroom and for the most part, for us. That’s a major
challenge and I can only grasp it now, having been out of it and it’s only a glimmer
out there but I don’t know how the colleges like Marist are going to handle that.
GN (49:49): Okay, more pleasant things and things you do often, what are you doing now in
your retirement; are you keeping busy?
GH (49:57): Yes sure.
GN (50:00): What are two things that you do?
GH (50:02): Well, I, as you know, I’m an ardent fly fisherman and fly tier, so I teach courses
in fly tying.
GN (50:13): Where are those courses taught, not here are they?
GH (50:16): No, they’re, although members of our chapter, Tom Lynch and Bob Breslin
do offer a course here in fly fishing now but no, I teach up in Don’s Tackle Service.
It’s a Norvis store up in Red Hook so I’ve done that for years when it was down
here, it was in Poughkeepsie for many years. So, I’ve done that for I guess.
GN (50:42): Are you involved in ongoing learning, where senior citizens.
GH (50:46): Yes, I was involved as a charter member, in the Center for Lifetime Study. I
guess Marc van der Heyden mentioned that there was going to be a series of meetings
so I was involved right from the beginning, the initiation of this college within a
college. Really it’s a senior college within Marist College and served as the second
president for two years and served on the council for five, so now I’m just taking
courses.
GN (51:31): Do you give some courses in Biology?
GH (51:33): I taught some courses, yes. I gave some lectures and I taught two courses.
Interviewee: George Hooper
May 21, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
23
GN (51:43): In conclusion, is there something that I didn’t ask you, that maybe you would
like to tell us either on your experience, friendships.
GH (51:53): Well, my first visit to the college I guess I came to see Brother Paul Stokes
and he just threw open his arms; I guess he thought, aha, here’s my replacement.
[Laughter] I don’t know but that immediate impression, that has persisted you know,
not only through one person, all through the Brothers for the most part and the Marist
Brothers and it continues to this day. I’m not really a person who involves oneself
easily. I tend to be more apart, but work at the college has allowed me to express my
own personality I suppose and it’s a place where I’ve grown up professionally and I
don’t want it to go away. [Laughter]
GN (53:17): Well, we don’t want you to go away. [Laughter] Okay George, thank you very
much.
