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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND










Carole Ireland
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York
Transcribed by Wai Yen Oo
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections



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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
Transcript – Carole Ireland
Interviewee:
Carole Ireland
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview Date:
2 August 2011
Location:
Marist College Library
Topic:
Marist College History

Subject Headings:

Ireland, Carole



Marist College – History



Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)



Marist College Alumni



Marist College – Social Aspects

Summary:
Carole Ireland talks about her early years and her studying part-time at Marist College. She discusses the social aspects of her Marist
life and her career after her graduation from Marist College. She discusses the literature she has studied on campus as part of her English
coursework. She also reflects on the future of college education, technology, and the direction she believes Marist should move towards.







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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
00:11

GN:
Today is Tuesday August 2, 2011. We’re having an interview with Carole Ireland in the Marist College library. And we're
going to talk about her career here and her career after leaving Marist. Good afternoon, Carol.
00:28

CI:
Good afternoon.
00:30

GN:
Carol, this comes in like four or five parts before Marist, coming to Marist, years at Marist and after Marist. So from the
beginning, could you just give us a kind of a thumbnail about the early years where you were born, brought up: grade school high
school et cetera.
00:47

CI:
Sure my family was living in West Allenhurst, New Jersey when I was born but shortly after that, we moved to Tyler,
Texas.
00:58

GN:
Texas?
00:59

CI:
Texas. But when I was five, we moved back to the metropolitan New York area. Larchmont, Mamaroneck where I grew up
and lost my Texan drawl. I went to elementary junior high and high school in Westchester in Mamaroneck, New York, had wonderful
teachers really, was very fortunate to get an extremely good education. And then I had two years at the College of New Rochelle, run
by the wonderful sisters the Ursulines. And I fell in love and left and got married. And my husband was with Goodyear Tire and
Rubber company and we moved around a great deal. So I started to go back to school when we were up in Plattsburg, New York and
then we came to Poughkeepsie, 1964. No, ’66, 1966. That’s when we came.
02:11

GN:
In that background of high school and summers, were there any work experiences … hobbies? Do you play the violin or
piano.
02:20

CI:
I played the piano. I studied the piano from the time I was five years old. Summers, until I got to a certain age were spent at
a country club and then I worked, babysat always, worked at restaurants and you did the typical teenage stint is hostess-ing and behind
the counter et cetera.
02:50

GN:
In college, in your early years were you involved in any kind of writing, newspaper, yearbook publications of any kind?
03:03

CI:
I've written personally from the time I was fourteen and I still have my journals from a teenager. I really didn't write
anything that I can think of professionally.
03:16

GN:
No but in the school. You didn't have a role as assistant editor or you know anything of that sort. Okay. Well, the real
question I wanna ask is: why Marist? With that wide range of Texas, upstate New York, Larchmont, how is it you wound up coming
to Marist?
03:35

CI:
Well it was like everything. Time and opportunity. When we came Poughkeepsie, the children were still very young and I
really wanted my degree. I wanted to finish it. And I love learning I still do and Marist was for the first-time allowing women at night
school not during the day only in the evening. And since I was home with three kids, the evening school was the only …
04:06

GN:
Best option for you.
04:07

CI:
It was the best option.
04:11

GN:
Yeah, okay? Did you have any friends here or did you know anything about Marist?
04:14

CI:
I knew it was run by the Christian brothers. And that was about it. No, I didn't have any friends here. I made a lot of friends
here but I didn't have any.
04:24

GN:
Let me make one editing correct here. It’s the Marist brothers,
04:27

CI:
Marist Brothers. Oh, the Christian brothers. That's the Legion. Sorry, thank you for the correction.
04:24

GN:
That’s another …. Having been a Marist brother I have fend the name you see
04:38

CI:
I appreciate that.


04:39

GN:
We get confused with the other. They're good people but they’re not that good that we would want to be with them …
Okay so the college was not that well-known. But so it was not your parents who are going to pay for your education? It was your


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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
husband or yourself who would manage to take care of it. I have a thing here. Did you parents think it was a risk? We didn't have any
reputation. We didn't have any particular outstanding scholars. We didn't have as many buildings and yet you chose to come and row
with us in our boat.
05:15

CI:
Yeah. I think it was the location. It was still quite reasonable in those days. For my first semester, I was able to get a small
stipend scholarship from I think it was a local business women's group. I knew that I needed a degree to be able to find the kind of
work that I was looking for.
05:50

GN:
While at Marist now … Do you recall … Was there a core program? Were there are a number of courses you had to take or
was there a 60-60? You had an option of sixty and your major field had an option of sixty. Any detail like that?
06:06

CI:
I don't recall. I came that I was able to transfer most of my credits from C.N.R. They were all in History and English and I
majored … I opted to major in English here so.
06:21

GN:
That was a good choice.
06:22

CI:
It was a wonderful choice.
06:24

GN:
And now we're going to see why. Did you know George Sommer?
06:27

CI:
I did. I had George for Chaucer. I don't know if it was for Shakespeare. I had George for numbers and then there was
Teichman.
06:37

GN:
Milton Teichman.

06:38

CI:
Yes, it was… may have been the Romantic Movement. Oh they were wonderful. I still have my wonderful English volume.
06:52

GN:
English literature text?
06:54

CI:
Yes. Underlined, dog-eared.
06:59

GN:
Did you know a Bob Lewis or Jeff Daling, Brother Stephen Anthony.
07:04

CI:
Those names don't.
07:05

GN:
They don't ring a bell with you. Okay how about Brother Belanger? Brother Joseph?
07:10

CI:
Those names. I remember the names I don't know if I had them.
07:14

GN:
Were you ever in a play here?
07:15

CI:
No.
07:16

GN:
Or public. How about in history, Balch or White … Dr. Roscoe Balch. He was.
07:25

CI:
Who did I have? I had one of the history classes that I remember with great fondness was a history of the presidency. And I
don't recall the teacher's name. He was youngish, very good.
07:40

GN:
O’Keefe.
07:40

CI:
O’Keefe, yes.
07:44

GN:
Peter O’Keefe. His son, by the way just a side bar, worked with President Clinton and President Clinton's fundraiser. His
name escapes me at the moment now but he was his best man at the wedding about five years ago. And Peter O’Keefe invited – this is
the young Peter – his father and the president of the college to come to a Saint Patrick's Day party at the White House.
08:13

CI:
That’s exciting. That’s cool.
08:15

GN:
So talk about connections and being in at the right time.
08:16

CI:
Absolutely.
08:17

GN:
At the Marist. Explore this concept. There weren’t very many woman here. There weren't any women professors as far as I
know and yet you stayed the course. Was it(?) difficult?
08:34

CI:
At times I mean I wasn't working outside the home but I had three kids and, in those days, and fathers didn't participate
much. Ron was in retail so that was six and a half days a week. It was studying for a test. I am sure the kids remember that instead of



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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
reading them a story at dinner times, I was reading notes to them so before exams.
09:00

GN:
They loved it.
09:02

CI:
Yes, yes.
09:07

GN:
What about the little conversation we had coming down here about class assignments and so on? I'm doing this to a
number of students or former students. They often come up with some kind of assignment that kind of changed their understanding of
something or rather a new experience that startled them. I had one who had to go to Washington to interview a former senator and his
whole life on the political stance change. The chance to have an inside opportunity to meet. You talked about going to New Paltz to
write a paper.
09:46

CI:
Right and that was one of the interesting things that … everything I did in regards to school was done in the context of
having kids, family, all of the rest to keep up with. But one of the assignments and one of the classes that wasn't English or History
was an Introduction to Linguistics and I took that thinking, oh heck, it's an introduction it's going to be a simple class.
10:22

GN:
Sounds like George Sommer.
10:23

CI:
It wasn’t George Sommer. I don't remember. I can see the teacher he was a slender man probably in his fifties, thinning
brown hair and glasses. His name alludes me. He was… I think an adjunct.
10:36

GN:
Could be.
10:37

CI:
Professor. He was not a full staff. And I have a very good an ability to really memorize easily. But we had to go through
and learn all the details of the great vowel shift that made it so that even though we can read Chaucer, we can’t read and understand
Beowulf. And we formed our own little study group of two other women, all with kids so we would find something for the kids to do
and then we would try to come up with all these mnemonic devices to remember this very detailed process. But that course has left me
with a fascination and a love for the English language and a curiosity that has taken me through Noam Chomsky, through
I And Pie
and makes me very aware of language usage. And that it was a very early and very interesting class.
11:54

GN:
This may sound a little ridiculous but you know the story of Pygmalion …
11:57

CI:
Yes.
11:59

GN:
Called
My Fair Lady
on the English language?
12:01

CI:
Yes.
12:02

GN:
And what a wonderful it is to be able to speak and people crucify it sometimes.
12:09

CI:
But the most intimate thing we do, most spontaneous thing we do outside of our breath is language and how we use it is …
and how language develops and evolve is fascinating.
12:26

GN:
There's another course I'd like you to take is called non-verbal communication. That ties in to the expression that you say
you do with your face, your arms and your head … What you’re trying to do voice you know and that's a whole other area of
education and study.
12:44

CI:
Did you teach that?
12:45

GN:
I did and I was amazed to find out what I didn't know. In terms that that would be such an easy way to … You’d think you
would know that all along.
13:00

CI:
Well, I have a granddaughter who's deaf so I know some sign, But in the deaf world, body language and facial expression
are so much more important than they are for those of us in the hearing world.
13:20

GN:
Well even in the hearing world there’s about ninety percent of meaning will come through, you know, not only what you
say but how you say it.
13:27

CI:
How you say it, the tone of voice.
13:30

GN:
Do you mean what you’re saying, "I love you" (angry voice) (laughter)


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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
13:32

CI:
Right.
13:37

GN:
What were some of the hardest things in these years? Of course, the children at home has to be the backdrop to it. But were
you able to get the right courses? Did you come in the summer time?
13:49

CI:
I didn't come in the summertime. That's when we spent time at the pool. I think one of the hardest things was that I was
entering my last year, for the last, I was only taking two or three classes at a time. Ron's job changed and we moved to Mahopac. So
instead of commuting and driving up a ten-minute drive, I was driving an hour and ten minutes from Mahopac throughout the winter.
Three times a week. And had I not been of that close, I would have had a hard time finish it.
14:34

GN:
Did you know Midge Schratz, Dr. Schratz. She lived in Mahopac and she does. She came as Millicker. It was her name
then and she married a Schratz and she finished a degree here and they came back as a professor. Got a PhD in Fordham and joined us
in psychology in the mid-80s. But Mahopac is familiar. I know the ride and it's not pleasant going down the Taconic in the snow at
night after classes. That would be one of the difficult things. One of the mostly rewarding you mentioned this taking of your new
language … the Origins of the English language. Is there something now that moves from your study in college to your professional
career? Organizational skills and comment on that.
15:40

CI:
Yeah, I think that the value of a liberal arts education is terribly undervalued, these days. What my back ground particularly
in English and history where we had the long papers, organize and plan and be coherent is to help in all sorts of communication and in
the business world. And I'm in publishing and you would be surprised at how many publishers, big names, have no ability to put
anything on the paper and to be able to write clearly and succinctly. It has been an asset for me, my whole life.
16:34

GN:
Very good.

Now let's talk more about that liberal arts view. It's a fight that is really on the undercurrent I think here at the
college because there is so much in the computer science, so much in the business. And I have come from an English religious
background so I'm kind of in-between. I recognized the importance of the other but with that, I think something to build on some
thought contents.
17:06

CI:
It’s the critical thinking that is developed in classes such as a survey of English literature or an in-depth history class that
stays with you and I wonder if the lack of that critical thinking is what is perhaps making more and more people susceptible to really
faulty logic and …
17:40

GN:
The talking heads that get away with so much nonsense because it's just so empty.
17:46

CI:
People don't stop to ask or to think or to probe. And you're left with a very shallow...
17:56

GN:
You must be a very fast reader to be able to do a Major in English and to raise a family and to have George Sommer and
Milton Teichman as your guardian principles. I mean my goodness. Comment on that.
18:14

CI:
Yeah, we did a lot of reading. Well, I would read while I was cooking. I would read in the bathroom, I would get up before
the kids and I […]
18:26

GN:
Was there anything ever burnt while she was cooking? … I bet.
18:33

CI:
Then one of the friends that I just had lunch with … One day a week I took her son the other kids were in school and one
day a week she took my youngest that Kathleen could do what she wants and I spent a whole day studying without until the kids came
home.
18:53

GN:
Just a sidebar again, George Sommer has passed away but his wife Ann I was just on email with her this morning and she'll
be in town next Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday and will get together to.
19:07

CI:
You can tell her I have fond memories of George.
19:11

GN:
He would delighted in knowing that and Milton.
19:16

CI:
I can still see him reading Chaucer to us in the old English. Of course.
19:24

GN:
Very good. Tell me some of the books or stories or things in your reservoir of literature that has to remain with you not the


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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
details of it but you know because you're more English based on so I was thinking more of American literature but it's a universal…
19:49

CI:
Yeah, we certainly did a great deal of Chaucer all but though the Canterbury Tales, the Parliament of Fowls which was a lot
of fun. Then the Romantic Movement, Wordsworth and Coleridge and there is still some place in the prelude that Wordsworth wrote. I
think in 1832 that I want to find because I think it … It was so prescient and it was simply that “The greater…” I can't even think how
it was phrased but more and more tabloid-like things got the less people would be able to respond to subtleties. And not in those terms
that that was the concept behind it. And I think we are at the nth degree of that at this point.
20:55

GN:
I just accidentally again … Every year there is in the country what they call a National Read. And in September, it's going
to be on Thornton Wilder. That’s … the schools do it and the libraries
21:09

CI:
We read that in high school.
The Bridge of San Luis Rey
.
21:12

GN:
That’s one of them. And Our Town is a beautiful play, of course that.
21:18

CI:
Can't that's just too poignant.
21:22

GN:
Yes. I mean when the Stage Manager is asked, “Well does anybody understand?” “Oh,” He says, “The poets and the
saints” You know, appreciate the depth of life and what people go through and think about and so on. Okay, moving on we’re doing
an interview here (laughter). Life after Marist. Where did you went … did you went home to take care of the children? Then when did
you start a career? What’s the genesis...
21:50

CI:
Well let’s see if I can do this succinctly. We moved to Mahopac then to Pittsfield and it was clear to me that the marriage
was dissolving. And I knew I needed a job so I went to an employment agency in Pittsfield and this was in 1972-73. And he took one
look at me and he said “You're a woman. You have three children. You have no experience. I don't want you. Go away” and I thought,
“Okay, that's not very encouraging.” I finally got a part-time job at Sears just so I could work someplace to show … You show up on
time. You're responsible etc. And I started applying at a small publishing company up in the Berkshires. It was then known as Button
Haim(?) thinking my liberal arts degree would look good in an editorial capacity. Well the only thing that was open was in the area of
circulation but if you're really desperate, you say, “Sure. I can do it.” And so that my career has been in all these many years. I started
there in 1974 and I worked there for until 1980 and then I took a job with Billboard, the music magazine in New York.
23:32

GN:
Step back a little bit. What does circulation involve?
23:36

CI:
What it involves is bringing in new subscribers. Magazines are audited by outside agencies so there's a great deal of detail
work. Magazine subscription files are managed on large database and those days, they were just beginning to be computerized. Before
that, everything with on a little metal plate in an addressograph. But the computer changed everything in all areas. So it was both “left
brain right brain.” It was very detailed-oriented, very numbers-oriented but then you had a creative side for marketing for bringing in
subscribers.
24:27

GN:
Is this for just one magazine?
24:28

CI:
There were multiple magazines. They were business to business magazine and so that is basically where I've been.
24:41

GN:
So you really have no familiarity in the business aspect of Marist and the program here and businesses and thing. That's not
your game. You were more in the literary aspect of it and then you mentioned now editing and publication part of it as well.
25:00

CI:
Not editing. It was not editing. It was in marketing and database management.
25:09

GN:
They moved from Pittsfield to where did you go after that?
25:15

CI:
From Pittsfield, I moved back to the metropolitan New York area in 1980 and lived in Mamaroneck and commuted into the
city while I worked at Billboard. And then one other company … And then in 1989, I started my own consulting company which is
still going.
25:35

GN:
What does consulting involve?
25:38

CI:
It involves managing circulation for publishers. Many publishers have outsourced the circulation function. So we do the


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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
marketing side of it. We help with the database management side of it. We put together what's called, the audit statements. Sometimes,
we work on business plans. We do budgeting. We help with strategizing so it’s a wide variety.
26:07

GN:
Do you have a team that does this?
26:10

CI:
I have one associate who works with me. If there are larger projects I can bring in other consultants, it's kind of … I call it a
modular, virtual company.
26:22

GN:
Is Billboard the biggest one that you are concerned with?
26:25

CI:
Billboard at the time, yes. Some of the other publications that I've been involved with are Advertising Age. Right now, I
work with Scientific American, the Journal of Nature.
26:42

GN:
Do you have a comment to say about the move as it were between the business of moving to computers, moving to all the
new technologies? Is magazine circulation dropping like newspapers has dropped?
27:04

CI:
Yeah there is that … There's an incredible challenge for publishers and as we go through this transition from print to digital.
Publishers who find a way of marrying the two media are going to be fine. I don't think print’s going to go away totally but I think that
they have to be wedded and they're complementary. But it's a very challenging time for all publishers.
27:44

GN:
For one not familiar with the details of the trade, it seems to me … that the multiplicity and diversity of magazines,
whether it's auto cars or sport or glamour or fashion or whatever, … is the total number about the same as it's always been? But has it
just been splintered?
28:06

CI:
It decreased a little bit and depends on what statistics you look at. But there's anywhere from 17,000 to 20,000 publications
in the US. We also work with publishers abroad. Then you have newsletters which multiply like rabbits, it's enormous and what has
happened with the Internet is … some splintering but it also … there are ways and places for people to simply gather data for you and
those people can make big money. There are publishers of legal … It's not legal journals but they put together all the legal cases and
they have search engines. Some companies will pay ten, twenty thousand dollars a year for a subscription. There’s big money. It’s a
financial blogs, financial newsletters that really provide detailed information can go up for 2,000, 3,000 dollars a year for subscription.
29:19

GN:
As you know, we get the Modern Language periodical. George Sommer. I think many of them are never opened. I mean I
think they came in there and they're on the shelf but we wouldn't give that up. Because when you want it, you want it and there’s no
substitute for it.
29:39

CI:
Absolutely.
29:40

GN:
Now tell me who has acknowledged you? Come to you. And how is it you got to be, you know from a little, wouldn't say a
… little girl but coming out of a little school and going up to Pittsfield. How did you get acknowledged? And have you been
acknowledged publicly? Do you ever get an award?
30:00

CI:
One of the associations has given me a very nice award - fulfilment manager of the year and it's an association. And
fulfilment is the term for the database management. And yes I was given that award a couple of years ago when that was very nice.
30:24

GN:
Is that a trophy?
30:27

CI:
It's a nice little … Yes, nice little…
30:28

GN:
Is it gold and silver or platinum?
30:29

CI:
No, it's a nice little crystal plaque.
30:34

GN:
Okay. This leaves me to kind of say in this world of phenomena that we’re involved now. Are you staying au courant as
regards to the technology? Are you keeping up to speed?
31:00

CI:
I think I'm more current than many people of my age. I mean I text. It’s the only way to communicate with my
grandchildren usually.



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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
31:11

GN:
Do you Twitter and do you…?
31:13

CI:
I don't Twitter. I do text. I have digital cameras I have an iPhone. I’m really good with Excel Spreadsheet. I've had to learn
those things for business. I don't necessarily embrace them wholeheartedly. I have been pushed along because … if I’m … as long as I
stay working and stay in business, I have to keep up.
31:42

GN:
It's a magnetic force. It’s gonna cause you to go that way.
31:44

CI:
Yes, I have to keep up and there is so much going on.
31:49

GN:
I have to tell you. I should have told you at the beginning you're going to be asked to sign a paper that we can use this
information in our … so if you’ve said any name that we want to delete. It’s something that … or anybody's reputation that is in
danger here. I just want you know this is going to happen at the end because …
32:11

CI:
That's fine.
32:12

GN:
Because we're creating a huge archive as best we can. You see the number of people there and someday, somebody will
come along and say well who is this, Carole Ireland anyway. And what did she have to do with Marist? Then how come from there?
She became who she is. And so that's part of our work and that’s what we’re about here. OK That being said, let's move on a little bit
now and reflect on Marist in terms of you talked about the liberal arts activity. Did you get to know people on campus whether social
activities as well?
32:53

CI:
They were some social activities for the evening students. It was … There was two separate bodies’ student bodies.
32:59

GN:
There was a Dean, John Schroder and John O'Shea I think followed him I am not sure just where that things may.
33:08

CI:
It was really two very distinct groups and I became friends with a number of people, some of whom I have kept in touch
with. And I've thinking back in some of the things that was so different … A woman would not have come to school at night without
wearing a dress, heels and stockings No woman would wear pants
33:39

GN:
Jeans.
33:40

CI:
Jeans forget that but pants… no one … that wasn't done.
33:47

GN:
Was IBM women on the scene yet? Were they coming?
33:51

CI:
Yes. They were. There was one young woman she graduated. I graduated in ’71. I think the first year that the women
graduated was in 1970. And she graduated that year as did Catherine Goosy who was good friend of mine. But another interesting
little relic of the past, there was another lovely young woman who was I think it was the linguistics class that we were all studying
together. And her name was Laura Mims She and her husband … Her husband worked at I.B.M. And they lived not far from us in the
Spackenkill area and I guess they moved into that area in ‘68 and they happened to be African-American. They had a burning cross.
They had their house plastered with eggs and tomatoes and this was … This was how it was in 1968. And we became friends and all
the young mothers going to school and we'd get together with the kids and we were over at my house once. And after they left a
neighbor to the right tore into my house and said “Don't you ever let those n words run into my yard again.”
35:21

GN:
Wow and this is America in the 1960s?
35:24

CI:
In the 1960s. And I suspect I was the only one from that community who went to the memorial for Dr. King when he was
assassinated.
35:37

GN:
Where does Vietnam fit into your career here?
35:43

CI:
To be quite honest in the beginning since I had young children, I buried my head in the sand it became … In the later years
that I started it was Vietnam it was Martin Luther King and others that turned me into an activist and my kids know to this day that
they still may have to bail me out of jail someday. Hasn't happen yet.
36:15

GN:
You speak out.
36:18

CI:
I do.



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TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
36:19

GN:
And of course the Vietnam was more on the day school here I mean you had a student protesting up and right. And not too
many years later, I had a student and I asked about Vietnam and this student raising his hand my grandfather went to Vietnam. Oh I
was shocked. I mean World War One would be where my grandfather stayed for me But Vietnam … grandmother… it just didn't
work well. That’s a bit of the social and I'm glad you opened up that avenue because it’s… you know, part of a very involved and
integral story. Then the women's role … Women had not yet begun to emerge yet in the light that they were to come.
37:10

CI:
It was beginning at that point and I feel that for me it made me much more assertive in the business world where let me tell
you particular in the field I was in … It was well … being paid 10,000 dollars less than a male doing the equivalent was … That was
just expected. I did file a lawsuit, didn't win but at least I put them on notice.
37:48

GN:
Very good. The social and political and religious turmoil over those days you know. I would say it's settled but it hasn't
settled.
38:00

CI:
No, it hasn’t.
38:05

GN:
You know, some of it has gone underground more than maybe we'd like. Stepping back again about Marist and the
development of Marist you were away from here for a period of time. You weren't involved in campus activities during that period
and then you come back at what time, would that happened?
38:28

CI:
It was when Kevin
38:30

I:
I am sure it was before… we came here with a Kristen
38:33

CI:
Oh we came here with Kirsten. Yes, Kirsten was here for John Hopkins. That’s right.
38:39

I:
And that’s when it blew us away. The campuses.
38:42

CI:
Yes so that would have been 2006, 2005. Something like that. Alright.
38:49

GN:
It’s already six years ago I mean you can't remember everything. So you’re away for about twenty years. Right and then
you come back. I guess it would be President Foy, Linus Richard Foy. He was a Marist brother and then he separated himself from the
Brotherhood and stayed on as president right. You'll probably never have a chance to meet him or know him, did you?
39:18

CI:
I know the name that I may have met him at some point but no.
39:24

GN:
He was a kind of an inspiration for allowing the college to do its own thing. If you had an idea to give a course, you gave
it. Like the History of the American Presidents and then you could do one, Lyndon Johnson or J.F.K. You know you show me what
you're going to do. You know, that is academically accessible … There's enough material there and you're free to do it. You see … He
gave you that kind of option. Unfortunately we ran into some fiscal difficulties in those years there was a sudden surge in the price of
gasoline and price of heating oil and things of that sort. So the college became vulnerable and so after 20 years, he steps down. He was
here from his 29
th
year to his 49
th
year and then Denis Murray came in at the age of 33 and has been here since and has done wonders
with this campus and with the buildings on it. I don't suppose you’ve had much of a chance to survey this. The McCann Center was
not here when you were here was it.
40:35

CI:
No.
40:36

GN:
OK so that would be one. That’s a Foy construction and the dormitories… were there Sheahan?
40:44

CI:
There may have been a couple. But it was a very small campus. I mean, I can remember driving and sometimes parking
there and there was Donnelly, I don't know if I had a class anyplace else but Donnelly.
CI:
And then I remember the swimming pool.
41:05

GN:
We are accredited by Middle States which is the college accrediting agency. They made their first visit here in about 1963
and then the first line of the report is the best time to approach Marist is at night. And the reason is Donnelly when it’s lit up looks
beautiful but the mess below the parking lots and the ball fields … you see you don't see that at night and that's the best time to come
to see it. And we didn't get accreditation the first year but we did the second when they came back and said, “If you do this this and
this.” And we've got it ever since, you know so that's thing. The other side bar is that we have another estate in Esopus, New York


11
TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
which is about eight miles above the Mid-Hudson bridge. That’s a 300-acre estate that the Marist brothers owned. And then in time
there’s a mansion on that called the Payne, Oliver Payne Mansion. That was bought by a man. Coincidentally was called Richard Rich
and he was!
42:23

CI:
I bet he was.
42:24

GN:
Yes or oil and railroad and all of that and just two years ago, he bequest that mansion back to the college.
42:36

CI:
Oh my goodness.
42:39

GN:
So it's one of the but my reason saying that is the Middle States wondered why we didn't develop the campus where
Esopus is rather than here … You know of course the main reason was that there's a train that goes up here and the other side of the
river, there's a freight train you know. So there would have been no transportation to the college right if we took it over there. Well,
the college has grown in a number of ways though. I mean we have many more. We have a master's program now in six or seven
disciplines, psychology, business M.B.A. We have a masters in communications. We have a masters in Secondary Ed so those all
psychology and secondary ed I think those are all academic things. Do you hear much of Marist on the media?
43:32

CI:
Of course, Marist poll this and the Marist poll that. And there’s been other references. I mean that’s been many years.
That’s when I started and say, “Wow is this the Marist I knew and loved?” Because it was very impressive.
43:55

GN:
That Lee Miringoff is. A young Jewish boy here at the time. I had come from a city. We’d embraced him. He had come out
of MIT with Ph.D. And he saw an avenue to be able to develop through statistics even going out doing a little polls in Poughkeepsie.
He could read the pulse of what was happening you know and that has remained a very accurate.
44:24

CI:
Yeah but it also lends such an aura of credibility and prestige and what have you to the institution.
44:38

GN:
There’s a man call Bill O'Reilly who got degree from here that.
44:44

CI:
Same year I did.
44:45

GN:
We have to be open to all kinds of opinions and so I don't want to go to jail and I don't want to cut Bill off from his … He
smiles on us sometimes. He insults us slightly but he's one of ours and we have to say, “Well we taught him something here.” And he's
able to speak with a lot of a lot of words. If you want a chance to go to the Board of Trustees and this is kind of more real than it is
seems because the president will read what we're saying or hear of it you know. What is some things that you think you would like to
see changed?
45:30

CI:
I would like to make sure that students who come here, the undergrads who come here and immediately going to very
specific field whether it's computer technology or digital design or what have you that they have some core solid core requirements of
some of the basic liberal arts courses. I don't know what your financial aid program is like about my concern for all kids coming up it's
with the economy and with the craziness in Washington and the cutbacks. How are we going to ensure that a fine institution like this
with the education you can provide will not just become available for wealthy? And how can we make sure that the diversity that is in
our country, in this community continues to be solidly represented?
46:48

GN:
That certainly will be a key point to leave open the door. ‘Cause the problem is that the competition to get in now is so
severe.
47:00

CI:
Yeah.
47:02

GN:
You know and so in that, you not only have to be rich you have to be bright. I mean I would never be able to get into
Marist today … much less teach here but in my day, we were part of the people who came who made it be what it is but that point of
staying open for allowing the less … some of the disadvantaged to come here because they have been disadvantaged and if you gave
them a chance right, they will outdo you, you know. And we've seen that in the good number of cases of students who've come in. We
we've seen it in a strange way in the academic field … in the athletic fields. There's a fellow here, Larry VanWagner who has been
charge of this swimming teams and the diving scene the opening of the McCann Center which is more than thirty years ago. He's had


12
TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
young swimmers not only students but this what they call the Marist Swim Club which is not Marist college. It's the area students,
children are allowed to participate in some activities at the college. While he was telling me an interview last week that he's had
students who would come through and have competed in that pool which is not an Olympic pool but it's a good-sized pool and they
have become excellent swimmers in competition with the world and in among the twenty best in the world. There’s one or two girls in
the area here who’s managed so that’s kind of physical athletic training is one thing. But the point of leaving it open for those who …
if you gave them a chance would be able to make it is.
48:48

CI:
And just in this community, you've got a lot of disadvantage.
48:52

GN:
We do. Yes. Turn the coin. What are some things that should be changed not change but maintained? What you think is
characteristic of Marist? Since you had family coming through every year now. I do see a certain imprint that that Marist has been able
to put on them that you'd like to see continued.
49:18

CI:
I think that’s a harder question I know that Kevin certainly enjoyed his four years here.
49:30

GN:
Well many students do.

49:31

CI:
Yeah, no he worked hard. And you know was able to leave here and get a really good job right away. And I'm not sure if
I'm going to have answer for that.
49:48

GN:
I would only just go back on my own participation there’s a certain Marist spirit that seems to pervade the kind of kid that
comes here. They seem to kind of pass on to each other. They're very polite. It is one of the few places in the world where students
will hold the door open for you. And they're very discreet and you know we are respecting the language when you're … They have
those behavioral patterns I think that had been passed on. I'm sure that they have their wild moments and I'm not visiting them during
those times. And so I would see that as part of it. I'm still struck with your first point though to leave Marist open for those who are
less advantaged to have them be able to come and get a share of what it will do for them if they get an education here. And I think one
of the dangers is that we tend to go where the more profitable … Marist was started as a teaching intuition although we have a
hundred student teachers in the area here and many of them go on to become teachers that remains there. But there's a bigger group in
business and computer science and they're going on in that area and we applaud them and we want them to remember us as you know
which is part of how we can keep going. But still I think that point of the core program to make sure that they get some philosophy,
that they get some history, that they get some literature, get some writing … They'd be able to speak in publicly.
51:41

CI:
Particularly in the business world.
51:00

GN:
Yeah that they get some ethics. It’s not just what is right and fair and just.
51:53

CI:
I mean there’s a lot of I'm sure good solid courses in any business school. But the reality is that you're going to learn the
business when you're in. And I mean what that does is it gives you that piece of paper to get you in the door but you’re going to learn
you're going to learn business when you're in the business world.
52:19

GN:
How do you maintain that principle that you have when the tide is so much to against you like.
52:27

CI:
Fortunately, I live in Massachusetts, the bluest of blue states.
52:33

GN:
Yeah. (…) everyone except us invited some Republicans for some years.
52:43

CI:
No there was a bumper sticker that I had when Nixon was impeached. And people used to almost drive off the road. Don't
blame me, I'm from Massachusetts.
52:53

GN:
This has been a delightful interview. Is there something we didn't touch on that you would like to add? As a kind of ending
point.
53:05

CI:
No I just have really fond memories of Marist. The day I received my degree was a very important day for me. It was a
really big goal and to reached that goal and to have that in my hand I knew I'd be able to do almost anything else I wanted to.





13
TRANSCRIPT: CAROLE IRELAND
53:34

GN:
Wonderful. That's and then especially under the circumstances that you managed to do it … that is that children at home
and part-time and we'd … I did I'd have to have somebody like Betty O'Brien or one of those registrar back at the time you know any
particular adjustments … I’m sure your grade were good so we take readily, you know, to help students get to where they are. I've had
some stories of there’s a man on campus now who is he won't was from a little town on long island and his draft port call him during
the Vietnam War and he was in Senior year and he was called and he said but I'm in school and said sorry you know it's a mistake and
it can be adjudicated but you have to go and we'll adjudicated you know so he went and he said he was at sea when he got a diploma
from Marist to say we've looked at your record and you know and you finish you don't have to come back and that made all the
difference when he left the Navy he was able to get into IBM. And did marvelously with them you know because he have the degree
and it's that kind of a little story that kind of adds to the quality I think of the kind of people you dealt with and hopefully will always
deal with here. So Carole, thank you very much. It was nice talking to you.


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