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Part of James Fay Oral History
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Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
1
James Fay
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Erin Kelly
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: James Fay
October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
2
Transcript: James Fay
Interviewee:
James Brendan Fay
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview date:
23 October 2002
Location:
Marist Archives and Special Collections Reading Room
CD No.:
Topic:
Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Marist Brothers - United States - History
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
In the following interview, James Brendan Fay reflects on his years as an
adjunct Economics and Accounting professor at Marist College. In the beginning of the
interview, James Fay summarizes his educational years, as well as his service in the U.S.
Navy and his employment with IBM. His transition from IBM to becoming a Marist
professor is outlined along with James Fay’s perspective of the expansion of Marist
College during this time. The end of the interview covers James Fay’s contributions to
the College during his former teaching years as well as his hopes for the future direction
of Marist College.
Interviewee: James Fay
October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
3
“BEGINNING OF INTERVIEW”
Gus Nolan (00:01):
I have an introductory statement. Good morning. Today is October
23
rd
. We’re meeting in the Marist College library. The interview this morning is with
Jim Fay. He’s an adjunct professor here for many years, recently retired. He’s a former
IBM full-time employer. Thank you, Jim for coming and good morning.
James Fay (00:31):
Good morning.
GN (00:31):
Jim, will you say and give us your full name please?
JBF (00:34):
James Brendan Fay.
GN (00:37):
And Jim, were you named after any member of the family?
JBF (00:40):
Yes, my father.
GN (00:42):
Do you recall where and when you were born?
JBF (00:45):
I was born in the Bronx on February 11, 1930.
GN (00:49):
Are there other members of your family?
JBF (00:52):
Yes, I have a sister, Anne Griffin who also worked here at the College for
many years.
GN (00:59):
What were you parent’s names and what did your father do?
JBF (01:06):
My father’s name was James and he was a subway motorman in New York
City. My mother’s name was Margaret and when she worked, she was a domestic.
GN (01:16):
And can you tell us something about your early education? Where did you
go to grade school?
JBF (01:20):
I went to Lady of Assumption Grammar School in the Bronx.
GN (01:24):
Do you recall the years you went there?
JBF (01:26):
Yes, I do. [Laughter]
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
4
GN (01:28):
Can you tell us those years?
JBF (01:31):
I couldn’t remember many people that I met in later life including Gus
Nolan, who is now interviewing me. [Laughter]
GN (01:40):
So, you went there from about 1936 or ’35 to ’43, I guess.
JBF (01:45):
1936 to 1943.
GN (01:48):
Right, okay. And then what about high school? Where did you go to high
school?
JBF (01:53):
I went to Cardinal Hayes High School in the Bronx, New York. That was
from ’43 to 1947.
GN (02:01):
Okay, let’s switch a little bit and talk about your personal life. When did
you meet Pat and when did you get married?
JBF (02:07):
I met my wife in 1947. We got married in 1953 at St. Benedict’s Church
in the Bronx, New York.
GN (02:16):
And do you have children?
JBF (02:18):
Yes, we have seven children. Six are still alive.
GN (02:22):
Okay, could you say something about where they are now?
JBF (02:26):
The oldest girl Patricia lives in Los Angeles, California and she’s a nurse.
My second oldest daughter, Kathleen, lives in Modena, New York and she’s a high
school teacher. My third daughter, Colleen, lives in Melbourne, Florida. She’s a nurse.
My daughter, Erin, lives in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and she’s a physical therapist. My
daughter Marlene lives in Milford, Connecticut. She is a health consultant. My son
James lived in Lansing, Michigan. He was a police officer for six years. He’s now in
law school.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
5
GN (03:02):
Okay, fine. Let’s come back to your education then, college and graduate?
Where did you go to college?
JBF (03:09):
My undergraduate I did at Fordham University and I graduated in 1951.
My graduate degree was an MBA from Siena in 1963.
GN (03:21):
Okay, I think, did you do a military tour?
JBF (03:23):
Yes, I did. That’s was in between my undergraduate and my graduate.
From ’51 to ’55, I was a Supply Core Officer in the U.S. Navy. I served at the submarine
base in New London, Connecticut.
GN (03:36):
Did you ever go overseas?
JBF (03:38):
No, I didn’t go overseas but I served at the submarine force there. I was
there at the time we launched the first atomic submarine. I remember doing this with
Admiral Rickover.
GN (03:50):
Is that so? [Laughter] What about your work career, when did you start
with IBM and how long were you there?
JBF (03:58):
With IBM I started in 1955 after I had left the service. I had thirty-five
years of all kinds diversified accounting experience at IBM and I also did teaching at
IBM. I taught many, many courses, both in the voluntary and the different training
programs for the IBM education department.
GN (04:17):
Were you always here on the east coast with IBM?
JBF (04:20):
Yes, I was.
GN (04:21):
Either in Kingston or Poughkeepsie?
JBF (04:22):
I was in Kingston and Poughkeepsie and then back to Kingston again at
the end of my career.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
6
GN (04:29):
Okay, let’s talk about your teaching career at Marist. When did you come
to Marist and how was that contact made?
JBF (04:34):
I first came to Marist in 1964. I had gotten my MBA in May of ’63 and I
thought that I’d like to put it to some use so I had sent out some resumes to some of the
various colleges in the area. And in January of 1964, Brother Cornelius Russell, who at
that time was the department Chairman and the controller of the college contacted me and
said that there was an opening. They needed somebody in a hurry. The teacher who had
been teaching economics, who was an IBMer, had left. He had taken another position
down on Long Island. They needed somebody quickly so down I came.
GN (05:09):
What year was this now?
JBF (05:11):
That was 1964.
GN (05:13):
1964, and Brother Cornelius was the controller at that time?
JBF (05:16):
He was controller and he was also the Department Chairman for the
Department of Business.
GN (05:21):
Okay, and the president at that time was?
JBF (05:24):
To the best of my recollection, that was Brother Linus Foy.
GN (05:30):
Okay. When did Jack Kelly come on the scene? Do you recall?
JBF (05:34):
I believe Jack came in 1963, which was about a year before I arrived.
Brother Cornelius had been to a meeting in New York City of the American Economic
Association and he had been doing some survey interview local prospective candidates
and that’s where he hired Jack. He met him down there and he hired him in 1963.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
7
GN (05:57):
Okay, let’s go back to your teaching here. Were you always teaching
basically the same course or were there a number of courses that you were doing and
attempting?
JBF (06:06):
No, I taught quite a few courses. As a matter of fact, the first course I ever
taught was a course in economics because that’s what the teacher who left was teaching
and I said, “Well, I don’t know about that” and Jack Kelly said “Well, as long as you
keep Lynch happy or ahead of you, you’ll be fine. [Laughter]
GN (06:20):
Alright.
JBF (06:21):
So, I taught that course. After that, I taught a course called Manager of
Accounting, which was what they offered at that particular time. Okay, as time evolved
and we started offering an Accounting major, that’s when we started expanding options
and that’s when I started teaching some of the other courses. I also taught a course in
Financial Management one summer but primarily my teaching was always in the
accounting field.
GN (06:46):
And this had been one night a week or two nights a week? What was the
timeframe for that?
JBF (06:50):
In the beginning, in the early days, it would be one night a week and then
it was changed because what was happening was that they wanted to give the adults that
were coming at night a better chance, a better opportunity to pick their courses. So
initially it was one night a week and then it went to two nights a week.
GN (07:09):
And in the summer, it continued then?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
8
JBF (07:11):
I only taught in the summer on occasion, usually would be when some
teacher would get a grant or something and they couldn’t teach so they’d ask me to step
in and fill in. I usually liked to take the summers off.
GN (07:25):
Right. Then when you would come here, do you recall certain aspects of
the buildings? Where did you teach? Were you teaching in the Donnelly building?
JBF (07:34):
Oh, I have vivid memories of that. Everything was in Donnelly Hall and
as I say in my notes here, I can remember very well you’d come out to go to class at night
and you would meet the dorm students coming back from taking a shower because they
were living in the same building. [Laughter] Everything was there. That was all we had,
was Donnelly Hall and I believe the library was even not built, okay. But the students
lived in that building. The food…
GN (08:03):
Cafeteria was there?
JBF (08:04):
Right. They were living in that building and it was sort of odd to see them
coming down along with their robe tied. [Laughter] There were no women students at
that particular time.
GN (08:14):
Yea, okay. And these students, these were not just Brothers now? These
were lay students who were…
JBF (08:22):
Lay students and there came a time when I did have some of the
Scholastics, the Brothers who were with the Scholasticate at that time.
GN (08:30):
Do you recall the spacious office arrangements that you had when you were
teaching?
JBF (08:34):
Because it was a small-knit group at that time and it was small. The office
space was shared by three adjuncts who are on a round table in the middle of an open
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
9
space. The big-shots had cubicles [Laughter] and a desk but it was a very close and a
very warm atmosphere. There was a chance to get to know everybody very well. And it
was a mixture, it wasn’t just the Business Department. There would be people there from
other disciplines.
GN (09:04):
Do you recall some of the people who were part of this close-knit group?
JBF (09:09):
Okay, so I can lend you with one.
GN (09:10):
Give me three.
JBF (09:12):
George Doran, who taught I believe it was Economics. He left and I
believe he went to the University of Duquesne and he was followed by a math teacher
whose name just doesn’t strike me right now, but I can remember a very funny incident
happened one night. This particular fellow was teaching math, said that he was a
bachelor and he was in the area and he hadn’t had to opportunity to really meet anybody
of the opposing sex. And George said, “Well gee, you know, I have a sister who lives
down in Newburgh and he took out a picture and he showed the picture and she had lay
clothes on, all dressed up in civvies. And then he said I have a more recent picture and
he took out one and she was a nun. [Laughter] So we had a lot on banter back and forth.
GN (10:04):
And other departments, did you meet anybody in the English Department
or anybody in the…?
JBF (10:08):
Oh yes. Yes, I can remember Dr. George Sommers, okay.
GN (10:12):
Oh, you know George Sommer?
JBF (10:14):
Oh yea, I knew him very well. I knew Kevin Donohue in Philosophy and
Kevin Carolan. In fact, a lot of nights, on Monday nights, after we’ve finished teaching,
Kevin and… The two Kevin’s would invite me down to eat in the place where the
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
10
Brothers were living at that time. We’d have a couple of beers and watch the Monday
night football and my wife would want to know why the class was so late. [Laughter]
GN (10:35):
It was on your breath. [Laughter] Tell me about the age of the students that
you were teaching in those years.
JBF (10:45):
Yes. In the early days, the majority of my students were IBM’ers who
were taking advantage of the IBM tuition reimbursement program. They were older, they
were serious students and they had to get an education okay. Some of the students that
they started from the very beginning were taking a period of about nine years in order to
get a Bachelor’s degree. And after thirty-five years at IBM, I wound up working for a
manager who had in fact done that.
GN (11:19):
Is that so?
JBF (11:20):
Yea, I had had him in class years and years before that and he had
graduated from high school at eighteen and went to IBM in like a tool builder’s
apprentice program. And then when he got out of the tuition program, he decided to go
back to get a degree.
GN (11:37):
How big were the classes? Were they small classes or were they twenty-
five?
JBF (11:40):
The average class was between twenty and twenty-five.
GN (11:44):
And there weren’t too many regular lay students from the college itself?
JBF (11:50):
Very seldom that. They would have to get special permission in those
days to take the course at night. There would have to be some reason, maybe they
couldn’t fit it in their schedule in daytime and they needed to graduate or something like
that but it was the exception rather than the rule, okay. But the older students had a very
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
11
definite effect on them, you know, they were almost like fatherly. You know what I
mean? And the younger students said well, we better do some work because these guys
are serious. [Laughter]
GN (12:17):
Right. This was the change in some years down the line, was it not? When
did you see a change come that more of the regular college would take the night classes?
Was that ten years after you were here or something like that? The early seventies,
maybe?
JBF (12:35):
Yea, the late sixties, early seventies. I’d say it’s definitely like during the
Vietnam War timeframe, you know?
GN (12:40):
Yea.
JBF (12:42):
There was a change in that more of the day students came in as the
expansion of the enrollment of the college.
GN (12:48):
Well eventually the dormitories went up and they moved them out of the
Donnelly Hall and the cafeteria was moved out and they put classrooms down there.
JBF (12:57):
Right, right.
GN (12:58):
So that all helped.
JBF (13:00):
That would be the timeframe. And we went through some turmoil in the
sixties with the students, you know, it was an adjustment for some of us traditionalists to
accept the long hair and what have you but I find you had to resolve the fact that if it’s
clean, it’s fine, okay.
GN (13:18):
And you had seen…
JBF (13:19):
As a matter of fact, I had one student who some years later I was sitting in
my office and he came in one night. I didn’t know who it was, I didn’t recognize him
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
12
and he asked me if I would sign an act of data that he was sitting for the CPA exam. And
I said, “I don’t know if I know you” and he told me that well, he said “Well, the last time
you saw me, I had dirty dungarees on, I was unshaven, I had long hair” and he told me
who he was. And he said “I always remember you telling me that if I’m going to get any
kind of a decent job, I’m going to have to clean up my act.” [Laughter]
GN (13:50):
Good. At what point in time did the female population begin to take
courses with you?
JBF (13:58):
It was sometime I believe in the later sixties. In fact, the first female to
take courses here was a nun. She was a Benedictine nun from Benedictine Hospital in
Kingston, New York. She was the controller up there. She came through, was an
outstanding student. She was actually the valedictorian the year she graduated but she
declined it because she felt that much… Be an indication of some kind of favoritism or
something.
GN (14:26):
Yea.
JBF (14:27):
She later went on and got her MBA and she is now the Treasurer of her
order down in New Jersey. She’s had some serious health problem but…
GN (14:37):
Well, she must be on in years then.
JBF (14:40):
Well, she would have worked for the State Tax Department for the State of
New Jersey for fourteen years before she entered the convent.
GN (14:46):
Well, so that gives you a clue.
JBF (14:48):
And in those days, they wore the full habit if you know what I mean. And
she had to come with a companion and her companion was Sister Marie Paul, the short
little nun, who just died last year. She was ninety-one years old. She was more well-
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
13
known around the College than Sister Teresa was and at graduation, they gave her a little
honorary diploma. [Laughter] Everybody knew her.
GN (15:16):
And the other female population, the regular, when they came in were they
a distraction for your serious students?
JBF (15:22):
No, the first lay person to come in here was a Linda Foley. Her father,
although I believe was a… I think he had a pretty good job at IBM in Poughkeepsie and
if I’m not mistaken, he was on the early Board of Trustees of the college here. But she
came in and, I’m not sure, it was sometime after Sister Teresa Paul was admitted to the
College. They weren’t a distraction except I can remember one… We also had a
contingent of state troopers here. The state police had a tuition reimbursement program
so we had a lot of state troopers from the Millbrook barracks who were getting up in
towards the end of their years, getting ready to retire and felt that if they had a degree,
that would help them when they got out to look for something else. And I can think of
one who I turned out to be very friendly with. He would sit next to, behind this Linda
Foley and she was a very attractive lady, I must admit that. And he would look at me and
I knew what he was doing and I would have to sit on the other side of the classroom not
to be too distracted. [Laughter] John, John Saltis is what his name is, a great person. He
was the police chief up in Woodstock after he retired the State Police. He died several
years ago and I’d say, I’ve became very close to a lot of students and I’ve been to a lot of
funerals of my ex-students. [Laughter]
GN (16:51):
Yea? I bet you have.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
14
JBF (16:53):
Some of them are very fine people and that’s one of the things that I
enjoyed about the many years that I spend here was that I met many, many fine people,
among them students.
GN (17:06):
A quick mathematical then would tell me you had thousands of graduates?
I mean if you had twenty-five or thirty students each semester for thirty years, that would
really put it up into several thousand students.
JBF (17:19):
Oh yea. I have all the records at home.
GN (17:22):
Well. [Laughter] Well, you’re an IBMer and you have that kind of
personality and an archivist next to me would generly be happy [Laughter] to look at
some of those things. Did the female students do as well in class in terms of the
academic performance? Were they able to get the concepts that you were dealing with?
Generally, they don’t do well in math but I was wondering whether you felt that way.
JBF (17:45):
The early students, in particular the two women that I just did work with
were excellent students. Near the end of my career at the college, I would agree with that
the female students didn’t get the concept as well as the males. Okay, I don’t know why
but that… That’s a true statement.
GN (18:04):
And…
JBF (18:05):
It might be due to a lack of interest because near the end of my career, I
was teaching Financial and Managerial Accounting and this was for the non-Accounting
majors and a lot of these students were taking it to fill in…
GN (18:19):
Requirements.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
15
JBF (18:20):
Requirements and it may be that it was “Well, I have to take it,” rather
than something that they thought they were going to use. So, I’d try to convince them it
would help them balance their checkbook and… [Laughter]
GN (18:31):
And tell me about in the span of your years here, would you say that the
maturity of the students, the capability of the students, changed in any way? Or were
they fundamentally the same? Was it pretty much the same cut from in 1965 period to
the 1995 period?
JBF (18:51):
My general observation is that I’ve seen a decline in maturity from the
early years to the later years but that’s my observation. There’s still a lot of fine students
out there but overall, I would have to say on an average basis, I saw a decline in maturity.
GN (19:08):
When the first students were generally, maybe the first of their family to go
to college…
JBF (19:12):
Right, right.
GN (19:13):
And there’s the hunger to get it.
JBF (19:14):
And I think some it was due to the fact that the environment in which we
live today were in some cases, there’s a lot of parental pressure to have their child go to
college whether they want to go or not and I don’t have to be a… In fact, in some cases
and because of that, they don’t take it too seriously. And they’re not mature enough to
handle the situation.
GN (19:36):
Okay.
JBF (19:38) (:
Maturity… The lack of maturity I find predominantly with the freshman
and that’s understandable because some of them are coming into a newer environment
and they don’t know how to handle the newfound freedom.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
16
GN (19:48):
Right, first time away from home and living on their own.
JBF (19:52):
Right, right, some of that it has to do with that.
GN (19:54):
Yea. Let’s move onto other aspects of your work here. There’s been
changes in the buildings. Eventually, did you move from Donnelly to what was your
next experience and facilities to be able to present your material?
JBF (20:14):
We moved from Donnelly over to Dyson, okay. I’ve never had any
complaints about it. For the course that I taught, Donnelly was fine. Dyson’s a beautiful
building, no question about it but in terms of functional use, it was the same to me in both
buildings.
GN (20:31):
You need a blackboard?
JBF (20:33):
Blackboard and overhead projector and all that.
GN (20:34):
Right, yea.
JBF (20:35):
I wasn’t teaching anything that required anything special or that you know,
would make a difference to go to Dyson center.
GN (20:43):
How about research materials, were there times when the kid took
complaining about the lack of resources in the library or was that not necessarily a part of
what’s involved in accounting?
JBF (20:54):
It’s not a part of the environment of accounting.
GN (20:56):
Okay.
JBF (20:57):
Not in the courses that I was teaching, some of the upper level courses it
would be but not in the courses that I was teaching.
GN (21:03):
Okay, from your perspective looking around the campus, where would you
say the most dramatic changes have taken place? I mean because you knew the Marian
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
17
building, that it was another gym which then became a dormitory. And the building of
the McCann Center which is the recreational one. The putting up of the whole series of
dormitories, Champagnat, then Sheahan, then Leo. The geographical changes on the
body of the campus, what strikes you now as you come on here?
JBF (21:34):
The building I was sitting in right now, the library. I mentioned to you
before this is my first time in the building but it’s unbelievable, just from the outside. I
can’t imagine what’s in here but from the outside it is a very striking building.
GN (21:49):
Yea.
JBF (21:53):
The other two buildings are very attractive, Lowell Thomas and Dyson
certainly enhanced the overall plan.
GN (21:59):
Yea. You saw the chapel going up. You saw me building that.
JBF (22:01):
Yes, I did. Yes, I remember the old Marist construction crew with seventy
eaves. [Laughter]
GN (22:08):
And that brings me to if you could just touch a memory or some
memorable events that you might have had here. Were you here for some of the
dedications or some of the funerals or some of the…?
JBF (22:26):
Yes, yes. The most recent dedication I came down to was the dedication at
Fontaine for Brother Paul. I was down for the dedication at the classroom in that
building in memory of Tom Casey. I was down for the dedication of a classroom in
Dyson for my late brother-in-law, John Griffin and I was here for the one for the other
fellow, they had the room named after him… He was also an Economics professor.
GN (22:53):
Kilgariff?
JBF (22:57):
Kilgariff, okay. Greg Kilgariff.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
18
GN (23:01):
Yea. So, you had more than just teaching experience here? You have
come back because you seem to…
JBF (23:05):
I have a lot of tie ins
GN (23:07):
Ties ins to this institution.
JBF (23:08):
Right, yea.
GN (23:10):
What do you think are some of the major assets that the College has going
for it? When you consider where we were and where we are?
JBF (23:18):
Well, there’s no question about that. The physical plan stands out. I
mean, what you see here today, fifteen, twenty years ago I could not in my wildest
dreams have imagined that it was going to turn out like this. They developed I think an
excellent faculty. They have a good variety of programs, you know. And they’ve got a
good location, you know, anyplace between New York City and Albany, okay. I think
those are the major contributions.
GN (23:51):
Were there, in you experience in the development of the various Business
and the Masters program in Business and so on, did you hear that from afar how the
thinking was going about this? Was this ever a part of the meetings that you were at or
was that more on the Jack Kelly administrative time?
JBF (24:13):
Yes, we had... Remember the adjunct faculty was not a part of that. We, I
think I remember a funny little episode at that. Back in the beginning when, you know in
the early time, the adjuncts did have a vote with the vote fore Department Chairman and
they decided in those days that the adjunct would only be entitled to a half a vote but we
did that for a couple times and then they stopped it because they always knew who I
voted for. [Laughter]
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
19
GN (24:46):
Okay. You did mention something though that, and I had forgotten that
from all the John Griffin, your sister’s husband who worked here… Was there a
connection between you two also along with Brother Cornelius was a friend of yours.
JBF (25:03):
Right. What happened was I had been here for a couple years teaching and
John was teaching at NYU in New York City and he was wanting to get out of the City
and move someplace and Brother Cornelius told me that he was looking for somebody to
teach economics. And so, I said to him, “Would you mind if I had my brother-in-law put
in a resume?” He said sure, put it in, I’ll consider it. So that’s what happened and they
hired him. Okay, I think it was back in the sixties sometime, ’63, ’64? No, it must have
been later than that, ’65, ’66 may have been.
GN (25:40):
Okay. Did you ever have to deal with reports at times or were you under
supervision? Did people visit your classes and did you ever have any kind of a…?
JBF (25:52):
Yes, in the early years. In the early years, they used to come around and
they would oversee the class, you know.
GN (25:59):
Sub in for the…?
JBF (26:02):
They would do it once a semester. But then in the later years, that died
out.
GN (26:07):
Well, they knew you could do it so they spent time to visit other people.
JBF (26:11):
But early on they would do that. They would come in and check the
classroom.
GN (26:17):
Okay. From your perspective too did you have any experience to know
something about the leadership? You were here for Linus Foy for a good number of
years and then there’s a change to Dennis Murray. Was there any interaction on that high
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
20
administrative level? Did you have to have a situation where they were present or see a
difference? Or what was you take on their administrative roles?
JBF (26:41):
I think with Foy, you know, he was here in the early years and he
developed and formulated a lot of the academic programs along with putting up some of
the physical plan. But then in ’79 when Dennis came on board, there was no question
about it that he expanded the physical plan and the academic offerings.
GN (27:01):
Yea.
JBF (27:02):
I think Dennis really has put the college on the map, okay.
GN (27:08):
Any public relations aspect of it, the name of it being out there, public
opinions survey, groups, MIPO…
JBF (27:14):
Oh yea. Right, right.
GN (27:16):
Has made it big. From your area in Kingston do you hear anything about
the college? Is it frequented by the students?
JBF (27:26):
Yea, there’s quite a few students from that area who come to Marist
College and it has a good reputation.
GN (27:34):
Okay, moving onto now where you are and your career of having just
recently retired full-time or at least at your position as the adjunct. Looking back, what
are your, what’s your take on the experience here? Do you think that… What was your
contribution in terms of this development?
JBF (28:01):
Well, I honestly can’t say that I’ve made a major contribution to the
College but what I think I was able to do, because of my work experience, I was able to
bring a practical application to the subject matter that I was teaching. And I know that to
be a fact because the students told me that and they appreciate it and they come back
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
21
years after I had them as a student and told me that was an amazing thing to them, having
been able to learn the practical side and put it to the application of the period.
GN (28:34):
I think you’ve minimized your contribution. When you think about the
thousands of students that have gone through and you’ve filled a very important plug in
terms of getting them…
JBF (28:44):
Well, that was one of the reasons I’ve stayed so long. I focus on days that
maybe I was making a difference in their lives and hope that I did.
GN (28:53):
Would you encourage someone else like you, like yourself to do this?
JBF (28:57):
Yes, I would. I think it’s a tremendous experience and I enjoyed it. I’ve
met many wonderful people and as I say in many ways, I think I got back more than I
gave to the College over the years. And it was a very rewarding experience for me.
GN (29:11):
Well that would have to be spelled out because we didn’t give you very
much for coming. If I recall, the pay scale was something like minimal.
JBF (29:18):
Well, in the beginning we got $200 for books.
GN (29:23):
Don’t say that out loud. [Laughter] But consumer price index now we’d
say that we’re worth about $30,000.
JBF (29:33):
For thirty-five years, I had to hire a truck to take me to the bank.
[Laughter]
GN (29:42):
So, it wasn’t really the money you found? There was a certain joy in doing
it?
JBF (29:45):
I enjoyed doing it and it was a rewarding experience and maybe it’s a little
bit of the old ego, you know.
GN (29:55):
Your teaching at the college?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
22
JBF (29:57):
Yea, yea.
GN (29:58):
Yea.
JBF (29:59):
Let’s be honest about it, you know. It kicks your ego up a little bit.
GN (30:00):
Okay, but it took some time at home? Did it on the weekends to prepare
for that and do the corrections? And how…?
JBF (30:08):
Well, in the beginning, yes but over the years, you know, I got it down
pretty good so I didn’t have to do too much preparation work. Most of the work was in
correcting papers and doing the grading and coming up with averages and things like
that. What I did was something I learned from basic singing. Every semester I started
from scratch. I threw all my notes out and I started over with a fresh set of notes and that
forced me to take a new look at the subject matter and make the changes that I wanted to
make but I never relied on a prior set of notes. So, I started from scratch every semester.
GN (30:53):
But the subject was pretty much the same. Accounting doesn’t change.
JBF (30:55):
It was but I wanted to take a fresh approach and not rely back on an old set
of notes.
GN (31:00):
Alright. And you said you made applications of the theory of accounting to
real life?
JBF (31:06):
Right, right. I would give an example when we’d we talking about
different things and I would bring in a practical example, something that actually
happened and…
GN (31:14):
Could you give me a little example of that? I’m just curious as to… Is it
for banking or…?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
23
JBF (31:20):
Well, okay we’re talking about internal controls. Okay, internal controls
have to do setting up the proper procedures so that somebody doesn’t deliberately steal
your money or your assets or your possessions, okay?
GN (31:32):
Yea.
JBF (31:33):
And I gave them this example of an engineer that I knew. He was a very
fine gentleman but unfortunately him and his wife had gone their separate ways. He had
five children and he ran into some financial difficulties and so what was happening as he
an administrative assistant to one of the head engineers… Engineers in his area also
played pinochle at lunchtime. They didn’t go over to the cafeteria. They stayed at their
desks and played cards. And when they were doing a lot of traveling he would say look,
“I’ll take your travel boxes over to the cashier stage which is in the cafeteria and I’ll
process them for you.” And they say “Sure that’s great, we don’t have to go over there.
We can continue on playing pinochle.” Well, he got onto this idea. He put them in some
phonies because he knew that man number’s going to list stuff. So, he was slipping some
phony expense accounts in and taking the money and that went along fine until one day
he got a little sloppy and he put one in and he didn’t put the man number, what we call a
man number, on the document. And it happened to be the last work day of the
accounting period. He went upstairs to Accounting and the girl was keypunching with no
man numbers so she called the accountant. She said “Look, you want me to get this in,
we want to get out. It’s Memorial weekend. You’ve got to get a man number.” So, the
guy said “Well, alright. I’ll call him up.” So, he called up the guy’s name that was on
the document and he said “What’s your man number?” and he gave it to him. And he sat
down, “What do you want to know it for?” He said, “Well that travel lodge you’ve been
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
24
in, you didn’t put your man number on it.” He said “What’re you talking about? I
haven’t made a trip in six months.”
GN (33:09):
Uh huh.
JBF (33:10):
Ah hah! [Laughter] So, to make a long story short, about fifteen of us
accountants were in that weekend going through records. Making a long story short
again, we found out that he had taken that game for about $25,000. IBM wanted to go
“whish whish.” We wanted to avoid that.
GN (33:26):
Yea, yea.
JBF (33:27):
Bad publicity. The bonding company said, “You’ll prosecute him or drop
low on the bonding.” So, he was prosecuted in Ulster County Court and he did time. But
see, unless you can bring something out you and bring out the importance over why we
have controls or in that case, we had a lack of controls, okay. That should never have
been allowed to happen, okay.
GN (33:43):
Yea.
JBF (33:44):
And there was another case in Endicott where the guy was processing
payroll records after somebody would be transferred from one location to the other. He
was slipping under the carpet there and then certain things had happened, okay. So
unless you’re there and you see that actually happening, it’s pretty hard for them to
understand what is this guy talking about?
GN (34:06):
Yes, yea. Right, right. I have a similar story. My brother told me about in
the military and I actually introduced a guy into the service, promoted him, sent him over
seas and discharged him over a period of years, you know. And I picked this, you know,
it was a virtual reality or something like it [Laughter]… That kind of thing. Well, let me
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
25
ask you kind of in coming to a conclusion since we’re into storytelling now. And more
practically, is there something that you would like to say that I didn’t ask you? You
know, thinking about your experience here and what do you see? Do you think the
college is going to be able to maintain this image that it had or what it’s going to have to
do, to do that? If you had to go to the Board of Trustees, what would be a message you
might give them to maintain themselves?
JBF (35:00):
Well, this is maybe it’s just a little on the self side. I’ve always liked they
to come up with like, in the School of Math to come up with a School of Accountancy or
something like that in finance. A little old specialty that would put them on the map, you
know what I mean?
GN (35:15):
Yea.
JBF (35:16):
It would take funding to do. If I won the mega lotto maybe I could fix
something. [Laughter]
GN (35:21):
Yes, yes.
JBF (35:22):
But I think something like that. I mean, they have a very good reputation
but something that would make them different than everybody else. Oh, there’s that
School of Accountancy up there in Marist College. Or finance, whatever it is.
GN:
So we, within the Business program and in the MBA program, there seems to be a
focus…
JBF (35:37):
Focus, yea.
GN (35:39):
That has to be developed.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
26
JBF (35:41):
Yea, right. But even if it would have to be that they were known as a
school that specializes in Forensic Accounting or something like that. Those going on
the field of accounting today, that might be very appropriate for them. [Laughter]
GN (35:54):
Well, on that happy note Jim, I’ll say thank you very much. It’s been a
delight talking to you.
JBF (35:55):
Okay.
GN (35:56):
Okay.
JBF (35:57):
Alright.
“END OF INTERVIEW”
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
1
James Fay
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Erin Kelly
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: James Fay
October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
2
Transcript: James Fay
Interviewee:
James Brendan Fay
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview date:
23 October 2002
Location:
Marist Archives and Special Collections Reading Room
CD No.:
Topic:
Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Marist Brothers - United States - History
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
In the following interview, James Brendan Fay reflects on his years as an
adjunct Economics and Accounting professor at Marist College. In the beginning of the
interview, James Fay summarizes his educational years, as well as his service in the U.S.
Navy and his employment with IBM. His transition from IBM to becoming a Marist
professor is outlined along with James Fay’s perspective of the expansion of Marist
College during this time. The end of the interview covers James Fay’s contributions to
the College during his former teaching years as well as his hopes for the future direction
of Marist College.
Interviewee: James Fay
October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
MHP
3
“BEGINNING OF INTERVIEW”
Gus Nolan (00:01):
I have an introductory statement. Good morning. Today is October
23
rd
. We’re meeting in the Marist College library. The interview this morning is with
Jim Fay. He’s an adjunct professor here for many years, recently retired. He’s a former
IBM full-time employer. Thank you, Jim for coming and good morning.
James Fay (00:31):
Good morning.
GN (00:31):
Jim, will you say and give us your full name please?
JBF (00:34):
James Brendan Fay.
GN (00:37):
And Jim, were you named after any member of the family?
JBF (00:40):
Yes, my father.
GN (00:42):
Do you recall where and when you were born?
JBF (00:45):
I was born in the Bronx on February 11, 1930.
GN (00:49):
Are there other members of your family?
JBF (00:52):
Yes, I have a sister, Anne Griffin who also worked here at the College for
many years.
GN (00:59):
What were you parent’s names and what did your father do?
JBF (01:06):
My father’s name was James and he was a subway motorman in New York
City. My mother’s name was Margaret and when she worked, she was a domestic.
GN (01:16):
And can you tell us something about your early education? Where did you
go to grade school?
JBF (01:20):
I went to Lady of Assumption Grammar School in the Bronx.
GN (01:24):
Do you recall the years you went there?
JBF (01:26):
Yes, I do. [Laughter]
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
4
GN (01:28):
Can you tell us those years?
JBF (01:31):
I couldn’t remember many people that I met in later life including Gus
Nolan, who is now interviewing me. [Laughter]
GN (01:40):
So, you went there from about 1936 or ’35 to ’43, I guess.
JBF (01:45):
1936 to 1943.
GN (01:48):
Right, okay. And then what about high school? Where did you go to high
school?
JBF (01:53):
I went to Cardinal Hayes High School in the Bronx, New York. That was
from ’43 to 1947.
GN (02:01):
Okay, let’s switch a little bit and talk about your personal life. When did
you meet Pat and when did you get married?
JBF (02:07):
I met my wife in 1947. We got married in 1953 at St. Benedict’s Church
in the Bronx, New York.
GN (02:16):
And do you have children?
JBF (02:18):
Yes, we have seven children. Six are still alive.
GN (02:22):
Okay, could you say something about where they are now?
JBF (02:26):
The oldest girl Patricia lives in Los Angeles, California and she’s a nurse.
My second oldest daughter, Kathleen, lives in Modena, New York and she’s a high
school teacher. My third daughter, Colleen, lives in Melbourne, Florida. She’s a nurse.
My daughter, Erin, lives in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and she’s a physical therapist. My
daughter Marlene lives in Milford, Connecticut. She is a health consultant. My son
James lived in Lansing, Michigan. He was a police officer for six years. He’s now in
law school.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
5
GN (03:02):
Okay, fine. Let’s come back to your education then, college and graduate?
Where did you go to college?
JBF (03:09):
My undergraduate I did at Fordham University and I graduated in 1951.
My graduate degree was an MBA from Siena in 1963.
GN (03:21):
Okay, I think, did you do a military tour?
JBF (03:23):
Yes, I did. That’s was in between my undergraduate and my graduate.
From ’51 to ’55, I was a Supply Core Officer in the U.S. Navy. I served at the submarine
base in New London, Connecticut.
GN (03:36):
Did you ever go overseas?
JBF (03:38):
No, I didn’t go overseas but I served at the submarine force there. I was
there at the time we launched the first atomic submarine. I remember doing this with
Admiral Rickover.
GN (03:50):
Is that so? [Laughter] What about your work career, when did you start
with IBM and how long were you there?
JBF (03:58):
With IBM I started in 1955 after I had left the service. I had thirty-five
years of all kinds diversified accounting experience at IBM and I also did teaching at
IBM. I taught many, many courses, both in the voluntary and the different training
programs for the IBM education department.
GN (04:17):
Were you always here on the east coast with IBM?
JBF (04:20):
Yes, I was.
GN (04:21):
Either in Kingston or Poughkeepsie?
JBF (04:22):
I was in Kingston and Poughkeepsie and then back to Kingston again at
the end of my career.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
6
GN (04:29):
Okay, let’s talk about your teaching career at Marist. When did you come
to Marist and how was that contact made?
JBF (04:34):
I first came to Marist in 1964. I had gotten my MBA in May of ’63 and I
thought that I’d like to put it to some use so I had sent out some resumes to some of the
various colleges in the area. And in January of 1964, Brother Cornelius Russell, who at
that time was the department Chairman and the controller of the college contacted me and
said that there was an opening. They needed somebody in a hurry. The teacher who had
been teaching economics, who was an IBMer, had left. He had taken another position
down on Long Island. They needed somebody quickly so down I came.
GN (05:09):
What year was this now?
JBF (05:11):
That was 1964.
GN (05:13):
1964, and Brother Cornelius was the controller at that time?
JBF (05:16):
He was controller and he was also the Department Chairman for the
Department of Business.
GN (05:21):
Okay, and the president at that time was?
JBF (05:24):
To the best of my recollection, that was Brother Linus Foy.
GN (05:30):
Okay. When did Jack Kelly come on the scene? Do you recall?
JBF (05:34):
I believe Jack came in 1963, which was about a year before I arrived.
Brother Cornelius had been to a meeting in New York City of the American Economic
Association and he had been doing some survey interview local prospective candidates
and that’s where he hired Jack. He met him down there and he hired him in 1963.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
7
GN (05:57):
Okay, let’s go back to your teaching here. Were you always teaching
basically the same course or were there a number of courses that you were doing and
attempting?
JBF (06:06):
No, I taught quite a few courses. As a matter of fact, the first course I ever
taught was a course in economics because that’s what the teacher who left was teaching
and I said, “Well, I don’t know about that” and Jack Kelly said “Well, as long as you
keep Lynch happy or ahead of you, you’ll be fine. [Laughter]
GN (06:20):
Alright.
JBF (06:21):
So, I taught that course. After that, I taught a course called Manager of
Accounting, which was what they offered at that particular time. Okay, as time evolved
and we started offering an Accounting major, that’s when we started expanding options
and that’s when I started teaching some of the other courses. I also taught a course in
Financial Management one summer but primarily my teaching was always in the
accounting field.
GN (06:46):
And this had been one night a week or two nights a week? What was the
timeframe for that?
JBF (06:50):
In the beginning, in the early days, it would be one night a week and then
it was changed because what was happening was that they wanted to give the adults that
were coming at night a better chance, a better opportunity to pick their courses. So
initially it was one night a week and then it went to two nights a week.
GN (07:09):
And in the summer, it continued then?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
8
JBF (07:11):
I only taught in the summer on occasion, usually would be when some
teacher would get a grant or something and they couldn’t teach so they’d ask me to step
in and fill in. I usually liked to take the summers off.
GN (07:25):
Right. Then when you would come here, do you recall certain aspects of
the buildings? Where did you teach? Were you teaching in the Donnelly building?
JBF (07:34):
Oh, I have vivid memories of that. Everything was in Donnelly Hall and
as I say in my notes here, I can remember very well you’d come out to go to class at night
and you would meet the dorm students coming back from taking a shower because they
were living in the same building. [Laughter] Everything was there. That was all we had,
was Donnelly Hall and I believe the library was even not built, okay. But the students
lived in that building. The food…
GN (08:03):
Cafeteria was there?
JBF (08:04):
Right. They were living in that building and it was sort of odd to see them
coming down along with their robe tied. [Laughter] There were no women students at
that particular time.
GN (08:14):
Yea, okay. And these students, these were not just Brothers now? These
were lay students who were…
JBF (08:22):
Lay students and there came a time when I did have some of the
Scholastics, the Brothers who were with the Scholasticate at that time.
GN (08:30):
Do you recall the spacious office arrangements that you had when you were
teaching?
JBF (08:34):
Because it was a small-knit group at that time and it was small. The office
space was shared by three adjuncts who are on a round table in the middle of an open
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
9
space. The big-shots had cubicles [Laughter] and a desk but it was a very close and a
very warm atmosphere. There was a chance to get to know everybody very well. And it
was a mixture, it wasn’t just the Business Department. There would be people there from
other disciplines.
GN (09:04):
Do you recall some of the people who were part of this close-knit group?
JBF (09:09):
Okay, so I can lend you with one.
GN (09:10):
Give me three.
JBF (09:12):
George Doran, who taught I believe it was Economics. He left and I
believe he went to the University of Duquesne and he was followed by a math teacher
whose name just doesn’t strike me right now, but I can remember a very funny incident
happened one night. This particular fellow was teaching math, said that he was a
bachelor and he was in the area and he hadn’t had to opportunity to really meet anybody
of the opposing sex. And George said, “Well gee, you know, I have a sister who lives
down in Newburgh and he took out a picture and he showed the picture and she had lay
clothes on, all dressed up in civvies. And then he said I have a more recent picture and
he took out one and she was a nun. [Laughter] So we had a lot on banter back and forth.
GN (10:04):
And other departments, did you meet anybody in the English Department
or anybody in the…?
JBF (10:08):
Oh yes. Yes, I can remember Dr. George Sommers, okay.
GN (10:12):
Oh, you know George Sommer?
JBF (10:14):
Oh yea, I knew him very well. I knew Kevin Donohue in Philosophy and
Kevin Carolan. In fact, a lot of nights, on Monday nights, after we’ve finished teaching,
Kevin and… The two Kevin’s would invite me down to eat in the place where the
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
10
Brothers were living at that time. We’d have a couple of beers and watch the Monday
night football and my wife would want to know why the class was so late. [Laughter]
GN (10:35):
It was on your breath. [Laughter] Tell me about the age of the students that
you were teaching in those years.
JBF (10:45):
Yes. In the early days, the majority of my students were IBM’ers who
were taking advantage of the IBM tuition reimbursement program. They were older, they
were serious students and they had to get an education okay. Some of the students that
they started from the very beginning were taking a period of about nine years in order to
get a Bachelor’s degree. And after thirty-five years at IBM, I wound up working for a
manager who had in fact done that.
GN (11:19):
Is that so?
JBF (11:20):
Yea, I had had him in class years and years before that and he had
graduated from high school at eighteen and went to IBM in like a tool builder’s
apprentice program. And then when he got out of the tuition program, he decided to go
back to get a degree.
GN (11:37):
How big were the classes? Were they small classes or were they twenty-
five?
JBF (11:40):
The average class was between twenty and twenty-five.
GN (11:44):
And there weren’t too many regular lay students from the college itself?
JBF (11:50):
Very seldom that. They would have to get special permission in those
days to take the course at night. There would have to be some reason, maybe they
couldn’t fit it in their schedule in daytime and they needed to graduate or something like
that but it was the exception rather than the rule, okay. But the older students had a very
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
11
definite effect on them, you know, they were almost like fatherly. You know what I
mean? And the younger students said well, we better do some work because these guys
are serious. [Laughter]
GN (12:17):
Right. This was the change in some years down the line, was it not? When
did you see a change come that more of the regular college would take the night classes?
Was that ten years after you were here or something like that? The early seventies,
maybe?
JBF (12:35):
Yea, the late sixties, early seventies. I’d say it’s definitely like during the
Vietnam War timeframe, you know?
GN (12:40):
Yea.
JBF (12:42):
There was a change in that more of the day students came in as the
expansion of the enrollment of the college.
GN (12:48):
Well eventually the dormitories went up and they moved them out of the
Donnelly Hall and the cafeteria was moved out and they put classrooms down there.
JBF (12:57):
Right, right.
GN (12:58):
So that all helped.
JBF (13:00):
That would be the timeframe. And we went through some turmoil in the
sixties with the students, you know, it was an adjustment for some of us traditionalists to
accept the long hair and what have you but I find you had to resolve the fact that if it’s
clean, it’s fine, okay.
GN (13:18):
And you had seen…
JBF (13:19):
As a matter of fact, I had one student who some years later I was sitting in
my office and he came in one night. I didn’t know who it was, I didn’t recognize him
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
12
and he asked me if I would sign an act of data that he was sitting for the CPA exam. And
I said, “I don’t know if I know you” and he told me that well, he said “Well, the last time
you saw me, I had dirty dungarees on, I was unshaven, I had long hair” and he told me
who he was. And he said “I always remember you telling me that if I’m going to get any
kind of a decent job, I’m going to have to clean up my act.” [Laughter]
GN (13:50):
Good. At what point in time did the female population begin to take
courses with you?
JBF (13:58):
It was sometime I believe in the later sixties. In fact, the first female to
take courses here was a nun. She was a Benedictine nun from Benedictine Hospital in
Kingston, New York. She was the controller up there. She came through, was an
outstanding student. She was actually the valedictorian the year she graduated but she
declined it because she felt that much… Be an indication of some kind of favoritism or
something.
GN (14:26):
Yea.
JBF (14:27):
She later went on and got her MBA and she is now the Treasurer of her
order down in New Jersey. She’s had some serious health problem but…
GN (14:37):
Well, she must be on in years then.
JBF (14:40):
Well, she would have worked for the State Tax Department for the State of
New Jersey for fourteen years before she entered the convent.
GN (14:46):
Well, so that gives you a clue.
JBF (14:48):
And in those days, they wore the full habit if you know what I mean. And
she had to come with a companion and her companion was Sister Marie Paul, the short
little nun, who just died last year. She was ninety-one years old. She was more well-
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
13
known around the College than Sister Teresa was and at graduation, they gave her a little
honorary diploma. [Laughter] Everybody knew her.
GN (15:16):
And the other female population, the regular, when they came in were they
a distraction for your serious students?
JBF (15:22):
No, the first lay person to come in here was a Linda Foley. Her father,
although I believe was a… I think he had a pretty good job at IBM in Poughkeepsie and
if I’m not mistaken, he was on the early Board of Trustees of the college here. But she
came in and, I’m not sure, it was sometime after Sister Teresa Paul was admitted to the
College. They weren’t a distraction except I can remember one… We also had a
contingent of state troopers here. The state police had a tuition reimbursement program
so we had a lot of state troopers from the Millbrook barracks who were getting up in
towards the end of their years, getting ready to retire and felt that if they had a degree,
that would help them when they got out to look for something else. And I can think of
one who I turned out to be very friendly with. He would sit next to, behind this Linda
Foley and she was a very attractive lady, I must admit that. And he would look at me and
I knew what he was doing and I would have to sit on the other side of the classroom not
to be too distracted. [Laughter] John, John Saltis is what his name is, a great person. He
was the police chief up in Woodstock after he retired the State Police. He died several
years ago and I’d say, I’ve became very close to a lot of students and I’ve been to a lot of
funerals of my ex-students. [Laughter]
GN (16:51):
Yea? I bet you have.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
14
JBF (16:53):
Some of them are very fine people and that’s one of the things that I
enjoyed about the many years that I spend here was that I met many, many fine people,
among them students.
GN (17:06):
A quick mathematical then would tell me you had thousands of graduates?
I mean if you had twenty-five or thirty students each semester for thirty years, that would
really put it up into several thousand students.
JBF (17:19):
Oh yea. I have all the records at home.
GN (17:22):
Well. [Laughter] Well, you’re an IBMer and you have that kind of
personality and an archivist next to me would generly be happy [Laughter] to look at
some of those things. Did the female students do as well in class in terms of the
academic performance? Were they able to get the concepts that you were dealing with?
Generally, they don’t do well in math but I was wondering whether you felt that way.
JBF (17:45):
The early students, in particular the two women that I just did work with
were excellent students. Near the end of my career at the college, I would agree with that
the female students didn’t get the concept as well as the males. Okay, I don’t know why
but that… That’s a true statement.
GN (18:04):
And…
JBF (18:05):
It might be due to a lack of interest because near the end of my career, I
was teaching Financial and Managerial Accounting and this was for the non-Accounting
majors and a lot of these students were taking it to fill in…
GN (18:19):
Requirements.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
15
JBF (18:20):
Requirements and it may be that it was “Well, I have to take it,” rather
than something that they thought they were going to use. So, I’d try to convince them it
would help them balance their checkbook and… [Laughter]
GN (18:31):
And tell me about in the span of your years here, would you say that the
maturity of the students, the capability of the students, changed in any way? Or were
they fundamentally the same? Was it pretty much the same cut from in 1965 period to
the 1995 period?
JBF (18:51):
My general observation is that I’ve seen a decline in maturity from the
early years to the later years but that’s my observation. There’s still a lot of fine students
out there but overall, I would have to say on an average basis, I saw a decline in maturity.
GN (19:08):
When the first students were generally, maybe the first of their family to go
to college…
JBF (19:12):
Right, right.
GN (19:13):
And there’s the hunger to get it.
JBF (19:14):
And I think some it was due to the fact that the environment in which we
live today were in some cases, there’s a lot of parental pressure to have their child go to
college whether they want to go or not and I don’t have to be a… In fact, in some cases
and because of that, they don’t take it too seriously. And they’re not mature enough to
handle the situation.
GN (19:36):
Okay.
JBF (19:38) (:
Maturity… The lack of maturity I find predominantly with the freshman
and that’s understandable because some of them are coming into a newer environment
and they don’t know how to handle the newfound freedom.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
16
GN (19:48):
Right, first time away from home and living on their own.
JBF (19:52):
Right, right, some of that it has to do with that.
GN (19:54):
Yea. Let’s move onto other aspects of your work here. There’s been
changes in the buildings. Eventually, did you move from Donnelly to what was your
next experience and facilities to be able to present your material?
JBF (20:14):
We moved from Donnelly over to Dyson, okay. I’ve never had any
complaints about it. For the course that I taught, Donnelly was fine. Dyson’s a beautiful
building, no question about it but in terms of functional use, it was the same to me in both
buildings.
GN (20:31):
You need a blackboard?
JBF (20:33):
Blackboard and overhead projector and all that.
GN (20:34):
Right, yea.
JBF (20:35):
I wasn’t teaching anything that required anything special or that you know,
would make a difference to go to Dyson center.
GN (20:43):
How about research materials, were there times when the kid took
complaining about the lack of resources in the library or was that not necessarily a part of
what’s involved in accounting?
JBF (20:54):
It’s not a part of the environment of accounting.
GN (20:56):
Okay.
JBF (20:57):
Not in the courses that I was teaching, some of the upper level courses it
would be but not in the courses that I was teaching.
GN (21:03):
Okay, from your perspective looking around the campus, where would you
say the most dramatic changes have taken place? I mean because you knew the Marian
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
17
building, that it was another gym which then became a dormitory. And the building of
the McCann Center which is the recreational one. The putting up of the whole series of
dormitories, Champagnat, then Sheahan, then Leo. The geographical changes on the
body of the campus, what strikes you now as you come on here?
JBF (21:34):
The building I was sitting in right now, the library. I mentioned to you
before this is my first time in the building but it’s unbelievable, just from the outside. I
can’t imagine what’s in here but from the outside it is a very striking building.
GN (21:49):
Yea.
JBF (21:53):
The other two buildings are very attractive, Lowell Thomas and Dyson
certainly enhanced the overall plan.
GN (21:59):
Yea. You saw the chapel going up. You saw me building that.
JBF (22:01):
Yes, I did. Yes, I remember the old Marist construction crew with seventy
eaves. [Laughter]
GN (22:08):
And that brings me to if you could just touch a memory or some
memorable events that you might have had here. Were you here for some of the
dedications or some of the funerals or some of the…?
JBF (22:26):
Yes, yes. The most recent dedication I came down to was the dedication at
Fontaine for Brother Paul. I was down for the dedication at the classroom in that
building in memory of Tom Casey. I was down for the dedication of a classroom in
Dyson for my late brother-in-law, John Griffin and I was here for the one for the other
fellow, they had the room named after him… He was also an Economics professor.
GN (22:53):
Kilgariff?
JBF (22:57):
Kilgariff, okay. Greg Kilgariff.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
18
GN (23:01):
Yea. So, you had more than just teaching experience here? You have
come back because you seem to…
JBF (23:05):
I have a lot of tie ins
GN (23:07):
Ties ins to this institution.
JBF (23:08):
Right, yea.
GN (23:10):
What do you think are some of the major assets that the College has going
for it? When you consider where we were and where we are?
JBF (23:18):
Well, there’s no question about that. The physical plan stands out. I
mean, what you see here today, fifteen, twenty years ago I could not in my wildest
dreams have imagined that it was going to turn out like this. They developed I think an
excellent faculty. They have a good variety of programs, you know. And they’ve got a
good location, you know, anyplace between New York City and Albany, okay. I think
those are the major contributions.
GN (23:51):
Were there, in you experience in the development of the various Business
and the Masters program in Business and so on, did you hear that from afar how the
thinking was going about this? Was this ever a part of the meetings that you were at or
was that more on the Jack Kelly administrative time?
JBF (24:13):
Yes, we had... Remember the adjunct faculty was not a part of that. We, I
think I remember a funny little episode at that. Back in the beginning when, you know in
the early time, the adjuncts did have a vote with the vote fore Department Chairman and
they decided in those days that the adjunct would only be entitled to a half a vote but we
did that for a couple times and then they stopped it because they always knew who I
voted for. [Laughter]
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
19
GN (24:46):
Okay. You did mention something though that, and I had forgotten that
from all the John Griffin, your sister’s husband who worked here… Was there a
connection between you two also along with Brother Cornelius was a friend of yours.
JBF (25:03):
Right. What happened was I had been here for a couple years teaching and
John was teaching at NYU in New York City and he was wanting to get out of the City
and move someplace and Brother Cornelius told me that he was looking for somebody to
teach economics. And so, I said to him, “Would you mind if I had my brother-in-law put
in a resume?” He said sure, put it in, I’ll consider it. So that’s what happened and they
hired him. Okay, I think it was back in the sixties sometime, ’63, ’64? No, it must have
been later than that, ’65, ’66 may have been.
GN (25:40):
Okay. Did you ever have to deal with reports at times or were you under
supervision? Did people visit your classes and did you ever have any kind of a…?
JBF (25:52):
Yes, in the early years. In the early years, they used to come around and
they would oversee the class, you know.
GN (25:59):
Sub in for the…?
JBF (26:02):
They would do it once a semester. But then in the later years, that died
out.
GN (26:07):
Well, they knew you could do it so they spent time to visit other people.
JBF (26:11):
But early on they would do that. They would come in and check the
classroom.
GN (26:17):
Okay. From your perspective too did you have any experience to know
something about the leadership? You were here for Linus Foy for a good number of
years and then there’s a change to Dennis Murray. Was there any interaction on that high
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
20
administrative level? Did you have to have a situation where they were present or see a
difference? Or what was you take on their administrative roles?
JBF (26:41):
I think with Foy, you know, he was here in the early years and he
developed and formulated a lot of the academic programs along with putting up some of
the physical plan. But then in ’79 when Dennis came on board, there was no question
about it that he expanded the physical plan and the academic offerings.
GN (27:01):
Yea.
JBF (27:02):
I think Dennis really has put the college on the map, okay.
GN (27:08):
Any public relations aspect of it, the name of it being out there, public
opinions survey, groups, MIPO…
JBF (27:14):
Oh yea. Right, right.
GN (27:16):
Has made it big. From your area in Kingston do you hear anything about
the college? Is it frequented by the students?
JBF (27:26):
Yea, there’s quite a few students from that area who come to Marist
College and it has a good reputation.
GN (27:34):
Okay, moving onto now where you are and your career of having just
recently retired full-time or at least at your position as the adjunct. Looking back, what
are your, what’s your take on the experience here? Do you think that… What was your
contribution in terms of this development?
JBF (28:01):
Well, I honestly can’t say that I’ve made a major contribution to the
College but what I think I was able to do, because of my work experience, I was able to
bring a practical application to the subject matter that I was teaching. And I know that to
be a fact because the students told me that and they appreciate it and they come back
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
21
years after I had them as a student and told me that was an amazing thing to them, having
been able to learn the practical side and put it to the application of the period.
GN (28:34):
I think you’ve minimized your contribution. When you think about the
thousands of students that have gone through and you’ve filled a very important plug in
terms of getting them…
JBF (28:44):
Well, that was one of the reasons I’ve stayed so long. I focus on days that
maybe I was making a difference in their lives and hope that I did.
GN (28:53):
Would you encourage someone else like you, like yourself to do this?
JBF (28:57):
Yes, I would. I think it’s a tremendous experience and I enjoyed it. I’ve
met many wonderful people and as I say in many ways, I think I got back more than I
gave to the College over the years. And it was a very rewarding experience for me.
GN (29:11):
Well that would have to be spelled out because we didn’t give you very
much for coming. If I recall, the pay scale was something like minimal.
JBF (29:18):
Well, in the beginning we got $200 for books.
GN (29:23):
Don’t say that out loud. [Laughter] But consumer price index now we’d
say that we’re worth about $30,000.
JBF (29:33):
For thirty-five years, I had to hire a truck to take me to the bank.
[Laughter]
GN (29:42):
So, it wasn’t really the money you found? There was a certain joy in doing
it?
JBF (29:45):
I enjoyed doing it and it was a rewarding experience and maybe it’s a little
bit of the old ego, you know.
GN (29:55):
Your teaching at the college?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
22
JBF (29:57):
Yea, yea.
GN (29:58):
Yea.
JBF (29:59):
Let’s be honest about it, you know. It kicks your ego up a little bit.
GN (30:00):
Okay, but it took some time at home? Did it on the weekends to prepare
for that and do the corrections? And how…?
JBF (30:08):
Well, in the beginning, yes but over the years, you know, I got it down
pretty good so I didn’t have to do too much preparation work. Most of the work was in
correcting papers and doing the grading and coming up with averages and things like
that. What I did was something I learned from basic singing. Every semester I started
from scratch. I threw all my notes out and I started over with a fresh set of notes and that
forced me to take a new look at the subject matter and make the changes that I wanted to
make but I never relied on a prior set of notes. So, I started from scratch every semester.
GN (30:53):
But the subject was pretty much the same. Accounting doesn’t change.
JBF (30:55):
It was but I wanted to take a fresh approach and not rely back on an old set
of notes.
GN (31:00):
Alright. And you said you made applications of the theory of accounting to
real life?
JBF (31:06):
Right, right. I would give an example when we’d we talking about
different things and I would bring in a practical example, something that actually
happened and…
GN (31:14):
Could you give me a little example of that? I’m just curious as to… Is it
for banking or…?
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
23
JBF (31:20):
Well, okay we’re talking about internal controls. Okay, internal controls
have to do setting up the proper procedures so that somebody doesn’t deliberately steal
your money or your assets or your possessions, okay?
GN (31:32):
Yea.
JBF (31:33):
And I gave them this example of an engineer that I knew. He was a very
fine gentleman but unfortunately him and his wife had gone their separate ways. He had
five children and he ran into some financial difficulties and so what was happening as he
an administrative assistant to one of the head engineers… Engineers in his area also
played pinochle at lunchtime. They didn’t go over to the cafeteria. They stayed at their
desks and played cards. And when they were doing a lot of traveling he would say look,
“I’ll take your travel boxes over to the cashier stage which is in the cafeteria and I’ll
process them for you.” And they say “Sure that’s great, we don’t have to go over there.
We can continue on playing pinochle.” Well, he got onto this idea. He put them in some
phonies because he knew that man number’s going to list stuff. So, he was slipping some
phony expense accounts in and taking the money and that went along fine until one day
he got a little sloppy and he put one in and he didn’t put the man number, what we call a
man number, on the document. And it happened to be the last work day of the
accounting period. He went upstairs to Accounting and the girl was keypunching with no
man numbers so she called the accountant. She said “Look, you want me to get this in,
we want to get out. It’s Memorial weekend. You’ve got to get a man number.” So, the
guy said “Well, alright. I’ll call him up.” So, he called up the guy’s name that was on
the document and he said “What’s your man number?” and he gave it to him. And he sat
down, “What do you want to know it for?” He said, “Well that travel lodge you’ve been
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
24
in, you didn’t put your man number on it.” He said “What’re you talking about? I
haven’t made a trip in six months.”
GN (33:09):
Uh huh.
JBF (33:10):
Ah hah! [Laughter] So, to make a long story short, about fifteen of us
accountants were in that weekend going through records. Making a long story short
again, we found out that he had taken that game for about $25,000. IBM wanted to go
“whish whish.” We wanted to avoid that.
GN (33:26):
Yea, yea.
JBF (33:27):
Bad publicity. The bonding company said, “You’ll prosecute him or drop
low on the bonding.” So, he was prosecuted in Ulster County Court and he did time. But
see, unless you can bring something out you and bring out the importance over why we
have controls or in that case, we had a lack of controls, okay. That should never have
been allowed to happen, okay.
GN (33:43):
Yea.
JBF (33:44):
And there was another case in Endicott where the guy was processing
payroll records after somebody would be transferred from one location to the other. He
was slipping under the carpet there and then certain things had happened, okay. So
unless you’re there and you see that actually happening, it’s pretty hard for them to
understand what is this guy talking about?
GN (34:06):
Yes, yea. Right, right. I have a similar story. My brother told me about in
the military and I actually introduced a guy into the service, promoted him, sent him over
seas and discharged him over a period of years, you know. And I picked this, you know,
it was a virtual reality or something like it [Laughter]… That kind of thing. Well, let me
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
25
ask you kind of in coming to a conclusion since we’re into storytelling now. And more
practically, is there something that you would like to say that I didn’t ask you? You
know, thinking about your experience here and what do you see? Do you think the
college is going to be able to maintain this image that it had or what it’s going to have to
do, to do that? If you had to go to the Board of Trustees, what would be a message you
might give them to maintain themselves?
JBF (35:00):
Well, this is maybe it’s just a little on the self side. I’ve always liked they
to come up with like, in the School of Math to come up with a School of Accountancy or
something like that in finance. A little old specialty that would put them on the map, you
know what I mean?
GN (35:15):
Yea.
JBF (35:16):
It would take funding to do. If I won the mega lotto maybe I could fix
something. [Laughter]
GN (35:21):
Yes, yes.
JBF (35:22):
But I think something like that. I mean, they have a very good reputation
but something that would make them different than everybody else. Oh, there’s that
School of Accountancy up there in Marist College. Or finance, whatever it is.
GN:
So we, within the Business program and in the MBA program, there seems to be a
focus…
JBF (35:37):
Focus, yea.
GN (35:39):
That has to be developed.
Interviewee: James Fay October 23, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP
26
JBF (35:41):
Yea, right. But even if it would have to be that they were known as a
school that specializes in Forensic Accounting or something like that. Those going on
the field of accounting today, that might be very appropriate for them. [Laughter]
GN (35:54):
Well, on that happy note Jim, I’ll say thank you very much. It’s been a
delight talking to you.
JBF (35:55):
Okay.
GN (35:56):
Okay.
JBF (35:57):
Alright.
“END OF INTERVIEW”
