Jack Gartland transcript.xml
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Part of Jack Gartland Oral History
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Jack
Gartland
Marist
College
Poughkeepsie,
NY
Transcribed
by
Amy
Dugan
For
the
Marist
College
Archives
and
Special
Collections
1
Gartland,
Jack
Transcript
–
Jack
Gartland
Interviewee:
Jack
Gartland
Interviewer:
Students
Interview
Date:
Location:
Topic:
Marist
College
History
Subject
Headings:
Gartland, Jack
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Executive
Marist Brothers – United States – History
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
Jack Gartland reflects on his first involvements with Marist on the advisory board.
He discusses Marist’s evolution from a Marist brother’s school to a Lay college which eventually
accepted women. Additionally, Jack Gartland talks about the McCann foundation, the changes
he’s see since President Murray arrived, as well as Marist’s biggest assets and liabilities.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Why don't we just start from the beginning and how you first became involved with Marist you
know, starting way back when. What was your first involvement with Marist college?
Jack Gartland (00:31):
Well, it is on the video. I mean, with brother Paul Ambrose. He and I were trustees at the St.
Francis hospital school of nursing and one afternoon there were four other prisons on all women.
They were yacking yacking up one of our meetings and it got around five o'clock and I turned to
brother Paul and I said to him, you know, I said, these ladies are cutting into my cocktail hour. I
think we wanna get out of here. So he says, I'll go with you. So I said, come on, I'll buy you a
drink because he wouldn't go to any public place. So he said, come on over to my quarters at
Marist and I'll buy you a drink. So I said, okay. So I went over and of course of just having a
discussion, he said, our brothers are thinking very seriously of taking in some local students,
maybe 20 a year or something like that and to help give them an education. And he said, I'm
scared of death of bringing in lay people like that and what the consequences would be and
whether we can actually handle it. So he said, would you help me set up an advisory board to
help out? And I said, sure, I think it was 1956. SoI got a group of local men together and some
many, you know it all, we formed a little advisory group and he made me first chairman of that
group to help brother Paul Ambrose. And that's how actually how I got started on it. In the
following year, I think it was 1957, they took in their first lay students.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And then following that, just growing and growing. So you've been on the board then.
Jack Gartland (02:20):
And so, I stayed on it. First, only the brothers were on the board of Trustees, they had no lay
people. And I think in memory, you say 1958 or '59 or something like that had brought in brother
Linus Foy to be president and brother Paul Ambrose left to go to Rome, be one of their superior
generals. And so, Linus was there and like I say, the number relationships just kept growing and
growing, growing. So, I would say about 1967 or '68 or sometime like that, the brothers deeded
the whole place over to Marist college as a corporation. Which was an educational cooperation.
Deeded off all the land that was on the south side of waterworks road first. And then a year or
two later, everything was on a north side of waterworks road. And I think it was in 1967 that
they say made the first lay trustees. And Harold Spencer was the general manager, vice president
of Western printing. And I think he was the first lay trustee appointed. And then there were a few
others and in 1969 I was elected as a trustee of the college and I've been a trustee ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So over that whole span, how have you seen Marist change over that span besides going from a,
you know, the Marist brother's school to a lay college? How have you seen a change in other
years?
Jack Gartland (04:24):
Well, of course there's been so many changes. The big question arose when the advisory board,
before there was a lay board of trustees whether or not they should admit women to attend a
college as an example. And our advisory board was split. About half of them wanted to remain a
man's college and the other half wanted to let the girls in. What really changed their thinking, the
brothers thinking, and allowing it was, they decided to have an evening school because they
found out that in IBM alone, there were something like four or 5,000 employees down there who
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had two years of junior college who may want to go back and get their degree. So, they thought
they opened up an evening school to help them and that grew to be very successful at their
evening school and women were allowed in the evening school. So, they said, well they're
allowed in the evening school why not in the day school? So, they decided to change and allow
young girls to enter college along with men. And I guess now, majority are women.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's come full circle.
Jack Gartland (05:54):
The times have changed. The John Schroeder who brother Paul Ambrose has mentioned many
times, had been down Oakwood school as a teacher. And he took over as Dean at the evening
division and did an excellent job and that grew, and at first it grew faster than the day college,
because now it's all amalgamated into one. And so that was one interesting thing that happened
in years. The physical plan, I was always a great believer that the better the physical plan is, the
more attractive it is, the more students will be attracted to college. And Marist has no big
endowment fund so they gotta rely on the number of students and the tuition generate it in order
to financially survive has proven to be successful. The fact that it is an attractive place and they
are attending and they do like it. And isn't just local students. There are, as you know, now, 2100
bids up there, I think something like that and they want to add about another 500.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
For the majority, so are attracting a lot. So you've really, and being at the McCann foundation, I
know there's a whole list of things that McCann has helped contribute the Gartland commons,
the McCann center. Why this special relationship between the McCann foundation and Marist
college? Is it just that it's a community, you know, organization that sees a need at Marist or is
there any history behind that?
Jack Gartland (07:47):
No, it's just the fact that our McCann trustees. We first built the McCann golf course in the city
of Poughkeepise, we rebuilt St. Mary's church, the CYO Kathy youth organization had a swim
program under Jack Kennedy, who at that time was head of warala corporation. And then he was
also mayor of city of Poughkeepsie. And he was, had been an assistant Olympic swimming
coach, and he was gun-ho about a program. And he had about 2,500 kids in the swim program.
So he approached me about the possibility of mechanic and building or contributing to build a
swimming pool indoors that wouldn't be able to accommodate them because they were, these
kids were getting up and going down to Y at like three o'clock in the morning at five o'clock in
the morning like that. And it was very hard on the parents and it was only the fact that so many
people wanted to swim and everything in the Y just couldn't accommodate everybody. And the
YW pool was also restricted in its usage only on a time basis. So it was no other school, all other
places they could later on the Poughkeepsie middle school built one, but that wasn't available
except for those students who, or little children who live in the city Poughkeepsie. So those
living in Wappingers and Hopewell Junction, Hyde Park like that had no program. So we were
sort of interested in doing that with the community here and having opened up for the benefit of
the community, but the place or the question was where do we put it? So I investigated a lot of
places. So Marist college seemed to be the most likely place that would, we knew would remain
in existence for the whole time. And so we approached him with the idea of building a year
round swim pool under their jurisdiction that would be open to the community and a community
could use it and Marist was agreeable to it. And then Marist also had been wanting to build a
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new gym. So they said, well, let's build a field house along with the swimming pool. So we
combined the two ideas and everything built the McCann center. And I suppose that's not really
how we got interested in Marist but that was one of the big things we did. How we really got
interested in Marist was that Jim McCann was a lie. And I used to say to him, Jim, what would
you like me to do with your money? If, when God takes you with your great reward. And I said I
only trust looking for me to be the bird dog up here and try to find out. So he said, oh, when that
time comes, he goes, you're going to have to decide all that. Not me. I said, come on, Jim it
would be something. Well, he said the only real thing I would like to see is all those kids across
the street, because he lived across from Lord's high school. So he said, I'd like to see those kids
make sure they get a college education. So he died at like the end of February in 1969. So I went
to the principal of the high school and I said in your senior class graduating, how many are
gonna graduate? And how many are gonna go to college that you know of and how many are
eligible to go to college and like that. So I've forgotten the exact number now, but it was over
200 and I think they're all- what 20- were gonna go to college and had made arrangements and
everything. So I said, find out from the other 20, why they're not going to go to college. And I
think it was like 10 or 12 of that number had taken SATs, but they couldn't afford it and they
couldn't get an assistance. So I went to Marist college and I said, graduating from Lords this year
are 20 students down there that would like to go to college and academically could go to college,
but they don't have the means so we'll give you a money for scholarship program and you'll
manage it and you'll handle it. It doesn't have to be restricted to Lords. It can be anybody in the
Dutchess county area if you want it. But I said, just look it over and see if kids are eligible to go
and if so, give an opportunity.
Jack Gartland (12:59):
So the number that had been proposed for that freshman class that year had already been filled
up, but I said, alright, they can take them. As long as the kids apply before May one, I think it
was. So I told that to the principal over there, they had these kids apply and think every one of
them got a scholarship for their tuition and everything cause they were living at home and they
were boarding students. And they went up there, there were four or five that figured they never
could afford to go so they never took the SATs. So I made an arrangement at Marist and I told
these kids, you go to community college for a year, take a liberal arts program, and if you are
successful and pass all your courses, Marist will take you as a transfer student. And they did that.
The beauty of this whole program was of the first 48 young people who had a McCann
scholarship, everyone graduated from Marist. I don't know what the figure is now because we
give them $50,000 a year and they pick anybody they want.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I have a McCann scholarship right now, so I'm grateful for that, so that's great.
Jack Gartland (14:18):
Not enough is like in the street accord set up by those students who are a bit above it and call
themselves the McCann scholars and that, which I thought was quite interesting. That's really
how I got involved with Marist and McCann getting involved in Marist and giving him
something. And then we just have multiplied on that as we see Marist grow, we realize how
important it is for the community here. And so we've been given them more money and all the
money we've given them is predicated upon making a campus more attractive, more, more
attractive, and doing things that will benefit them in attracting future students. Today's economy
and with the population, the way it has been going, most of all colleges figured that there's gonna
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be a lack of students sometime around. This time from now like 1996 or '97, the Marist has been
growing every year anyway and I think a lot of it has to do with what we've done, particularly
making all the athletic fields and all the areas around there, like on north side where it cost about
a million six to purchase a land and make those athletic fields. But there's a girls softball
diamond, a men's softball diamond and two complete intermural football fields, plus two outdoor
basketball courts, a volleyball court, and then on the south end of the campus, since Marist's
gonna go into division one baseball and new baseball diamonds built, we fixed up the football
practice field so it can also be used for soccer, rugby and lacrosse. So then the McCann center,
not only the swim program, but then we go into division one basketball and there's racquetball
courts. So I think the facilities up there are very good to attract students in the college to zone
funds and dormitory authority funds have built a little Thomas center, the Dyson center, the
townhouses, the apartment houses, and the Marion hall, and now we're contemplating building a
residence or multiple residence for about 500 more beds.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I've heard rumors of that.
Jack Gartland (17:16):
Yeah, well, it's in the works. I was chairman of the board, I think in 1972 or 1973. And since that
time, I've been chairman of the building and ground committee of the college. I meet every
single Wednesday morning at nine o'clock for about an hour/hour and a half. And we go over all
the needs and all the progress in relation to the buildings and the ground. So I'm very interested
in buildings and new grounds.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Definitely. It's just, I mean, with the renovation of Donnelly and all that.
Jack Gartland (17:43):
Oh, renovation of Donnelly. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That's incredible. That's a beautiful building.
Jack Gartland (17:50):
We renovated pine hall, we renovated Leo and Sheahan, and then there's all the ground and site
work and connecting to the north end of the campus to the south end of the campus. Trying to
make it all one.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Because I bring tours around campus and people are impressed by just the physical plant of it
besides being on the Hudson, which is nice. They are really nice buildings. Related to the
McCann foundation and the community, how do you see Marist's role in the community? You
know, for the past like 10 years or the past time that you've seen it, how have you seen Marist's
role in the community change?
Jack Gartland (18:32):
Well let's look at our educational institutions like Vassar college. Vassar college of course is a
much older college started just as a female college and attracted students from all over the United
States. In fact, became like a national international type of a college. And for a long time local
girls were not encouraged to go to Vassar college. They didn't like commuter students. The only
local girls who went, went to become boarding students at Vassar because they didn't want
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commuters because they changed that. In modern society, they almost had to, and they do have a
lot of local girls. Mccann has given them money too to help what they call it, commuter student
center, they have out the there, and we give them money for scholarships also for local students,
male and female. Community college arose right after the war. And that's grown tremendously to
meet a need for technical education of students, and they have various programs up there to help
them become employed and to, you know, get out into the job market, like teach them to some
surveyors and criminal justice for policemen and nursing and different things like that. But
Marist has a liberal arts college, the same as Vassar started right from scratch and had a grow up
by its own bootstraps which it has done. And initially, just handling commuter students or your
local students when, before they have resident students prove to be a void among the middle
class people and among the even poorer class where they had a struggle, they get an education
and they did, they had the upper bound program and different things like that to encourage the
poorer, economically poorer students to attend college. And I think that's proven very successful.
Then as they start putting dormitory's in and residents saw going that much more by attracting
them out of the area, students in Connecticut, New Jersey and New York City, places like that.
And this year, it's even spread farther away from that there's wall sections of New England and
sections of the Midwest and some the south and like that are now coming to Marist College as
this reputation grows. So bringing those students in, and of course they spend a lot of money
locally here, so it should have helped the economic elements of the community. Besides that,
Dennis Murray, who has been president now for, I think it's gone on his 12th year, has always
encouraged all his staff to get involved in community affairs. So I serve on the board of civic
center and the area fund and the Boy Scouts and different non-profit organizations like that,
which are community oriented. And he's encouraged that. Plus in fact, he's also encouraged the
use of the facilities up here, like local people to use the theater, use the McCann center they use
the fields up there for a lot of community affairs. So Marist has become an integral part of the
community. Probably a lot more so then other places like Vassar or Bard because Bard is like a
compound all by itself. It's isolated and Vassar has encouraged its, you know, international
reputation, although they tried recently to encourage a lot of local students to go there. But it's
from an economic point of view, they probably are students from families that have more of
God's good son on earth here than others.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Willing to Dr. Murray, how has Marist changed beside theories that you mentioned since he's
come on board as president, how have you seen Marist change?
Jack Gartland (23:39):
Well, it's continued to grow and I think Dr. Murray has encouraged all the beautification of the
campus, the use of the campus he's encouraged all the participation in inter-collegiate athletics,
inter-collegiate affairs, he himself gotten out not only just in the community here, but all over the
United States, giving seminars and lectures and everything like that. He continues to teach public
affairs and his doctorate is in public affairs. So he's made sure that everybody in the community
once it's possible has continued to participate actively in community affairs as an example, the
institute of public opinion and things like that. He's encouraged those, which of course enhances
Marist college's reputation. And the reputation is spreading. I would say in the 11 years he's been
here, it's grown from a localized institution into a, well, semi national institution.
Jack Gartland (25:16):
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This is well known as a lot of other big colleges or universities like Georgetown or Michigan or
things like that. But at the same time, it's reputation as a small liberal arts college has grown
tremendously. And one of the things that he was able to bring about is the relationship with IBM.
And I think in that of itself has been a great accomplishment because the joint study with IBM
has made Marist college probably one of the leading, not the leading, small liberal arts college in
the United States in relation to computer science in relation to what the students obtain from
association with IBM.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
What do you see as Marist's greatest asset right now and it's greatest liability?
Jack Gartland (26:17):
I think one great asset that Marist has is its board of trustees here. 33 people on the board, they
have four regular meetings a year, and then every month the executive committee meets and
invites other members of board and a majority whether's living on the executive committee, I
think. And the majority of all the trustees attend those monthly meetings and really work at it. So
you take a board like that as very active and participating in everything is a great asset for the
college. The other elements that Dr. Murray has done is by spreading the word of Marist college
throughout the whole area. So I think in his regime of there, it's been very, very helpful and has
gotten a lot better known and the other things that I mentioned earlier, but IBM is like that. What
was the second part of your question?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
A liability of Marist.
Jack Gartland (27:35):
Well, probably the biggest liability in every college like that is it's debt structure and financial
debt structure. And Marist has that well in hand, I think. It's the assumptions that had to be made
in order to finance everything has been on the conservative side and the business vice president
for Marist college, Tony Capelli, has been there a long, long time. And he does all the ins and
outs of the college financially. And he's able to keep a good handle on it, so that expenditures
and that structure doesn't get out of hand and the way he has structured everything from a dead
point of view has been very, very good. So I don't think that while it's a potential liability, at this
point, I don't think it's any real liability.
Jack Gartland (28:44):
I think one of the great things they did in their expansion when they went to Marist east, go with
some printing plan and realizing the money that had to be spent in order to bring it up to code for
classrooms and like that, that they said, well, we're only here on a temporary basis. Our best
thing is to take that money and put it into a new classroom building, which is the Dyson center.
So with the gift from the Dyson family and the balance of money necessary to build that by
restructuring the whole debt service and moving everybody back on the west side of the route
nine for on the campus there has been an excellent service for the students and an excellent thing,
which all is easily within the debt structure and the vice president for business administration has
done up here.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
What would be your most vivid memory of Marist? If one thing could stand out, what would be
the first thing that comes to mind?
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Jack Gartland (30:02):
Well, I suppose there were really two things. For myself personally, one was they gave me an
honorary degree, which I appreciate very much and thought that great. The second thing is when
they named the apartment complex up here and the athletic fields as the Gartland commons in
honor of my life and myself. And I said at the time, I was glad it was in honor of, not memory of.
I suppose that there was a third thing too, it was really very touching. About three or four years
ago, the McCann scholars had a luncheon one day and they presented me with a green jacket,
knowing I like to play golf and everything. They had a copy made of a green jacket given when,
when the master's golf tournament. So they gave me one designed by Jack Nicholas, and I just
thought that was a very touching thing for those students to do.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
What do you see as the greatest challenge now for the future? The greatest challenge faced by
Marist for the years to come, moving into the 1990s to the year 2000?
Jack Gartland (31:20):
Well that, I think basically we might also consider the overcoming of a possible liability, and that
is the reimbursement for the students by the state of New York. Because of the budget
constraints in the state, they had to cut the funding money in half and also the money that they
allow students to borrow in order to complete their education. So without that money available,
the question is whether the enrollment will decrease and drop down. If it does, since Marist relies
on the income from the students alone and not from any endowment fund, it had to watch out
very, very carefully. So that is a potential liability but at the same time for the future, it's
something that has to be watched very carefully so that the student population can stay up to
what it should be for Marist to properly survive. Because you take a lot of colleges, like I just
read recently, Syracuse university, it's had a big decrease in the enrollment up there mainly
caused by the lack of financial aid that they can give the students and the decrease in the funding
money. You know, what the funding money is?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah it's institutional by the state. So, that would seem to be one of the greatest things coming
with the New York state budget. Let's see. Anything else you you'd like to mention? I've covered
on my base questions here. You seemed to cover a lot of areas, anything else I should mention
that comes to mind?
Jack Gartland (33:22):
Well, there was a brother up there who was in the library who was collecting together a lot of the
memorabilia of the college and a lot of the early days of the brothers up there and that should all
be fairly well documented. From the time that it was turned over to the lay board in a lay college
on it. He also was collecting material, but I don't know whether anybody's ever coordinated it or
not into a history. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I think there's a file or two, in a librarian or the library director's office of things, photographs, of
brothers and the Marist campus of its change and some information, but it's never been put
together into an actual archive. It's never been organized or you know, compiled any type of
history. There's also student newspapers that have been saved, but they're falling pieces from
what I understand, they need to be microfilmed and just seems to be information out there. A lot
of the professors who were students or brothers from the early days seem to have some
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information, but no, one's done the effort of gathering that altogether and organizing it. So
hopefully that, that will happen. There'll be some type of archivist or some type of program set
up by the board or the president to bring all this information together. So Marist can have a
written history with the Marist archives on the premises. Some of the faculty, I guess, have
expressed some interest in that, but it just needs to come together to get coordinated. So
hopefully we'll add these videotapes to the collection. Hopefully something will be done with
them. They won't just, you know, sit and collect dust and the next generation will say, oh, maybe
we should do the same thing. Hopefully it'll come together in some type of project or some type
of effort. The president seemed to express an interest in it when some of our class members went
there and spoke to him, said he would like to see an archivist commission to take care of Marist
history and bring all these things together do you know, official work for it. So hopefully that'll
happen over the next few years.
Jack Gartland (35:41):
Well, Adrian, we call brother Adrian, but then he left the whatever and Adrian had that
collection up there. I know he had it in the library and cause I gave him a lot of stuff to where he
was. I hope it is. I hope that they do have somebody that can make a nice narrative history of it
and bring all that together.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
It seems to be there, but just no one has gone around and there's nobody saving things right now.
I mean, I guess because we see like the circles and you know, the newspapers and the things that
go around, we save them and then we throw them out. There's no one who's saying, well, save
this or this is the central location where Marist should save the minutes where Marist should save
the graduation programs or, you know, all these things that you're not thinking about now, but 50
years from now, they're gonna say, gee I wish we had saved that. So I'm sure that will come up,
you know, as the 50th anniversary gets closer. I assume there'll be some sort of celebration in
1996. So it'll be good to have something more than a brief history that's in the catalog, you know,
that's founded by, you know, Marist, but it's something beyond that we can actually remember
and people can speak of anecdotes. And just, I remember when...
Jack Gartland (37:03):
Do you live on campus or do you live at home?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I live at home, so it's a 20 minute commute, but I mean, just in the three years that we've been
there, it's changed. When I came in, they just started the renovation of Donnelly. And I
remember they, they didn't close the building, so I saw the old and now it's just incredible the
way they, they renovated that. The Dyson center didn't exist.
Jack Gartland (37:25):
What is this? What- must be $70 million spent on Donnelly?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah. Lowell Thomas getting a basement there.
Jack Gartland (37:34):
You live locally here?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yes. I live in Marlborough right across the river.
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Jack Gartland (37:39):
You live at home?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, I live at home. Yeah. About a 20-25 minute commute.
Jack Gartland (37:48):
This is your third year also?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yes.
Jack Gartland (37:51):
What do you girls intend to do when you finish?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I wanna go onto graduate school and hopefully get a teaching job at a high school or middle
school anywhere in, you know, the area of Dutchess county. So I'd like to go right into that.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, I wanna go on and be a history teacher.
Jack Gartland (38:08):
Good. Well, good luck to you. I certainly hope both of you can succeed.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I hope so. Planning it today in our class, we were talking about careers.
Jack Gartland (38:18):
My wife and I have eight children. So we watch each one of them. Now we have 12
grandchildren to watch and my oldest grandson is going to enter college next year. So and he's
around looking at colleges all over the place.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It's tough, but hopefully by the time we graduate, the economy will be a little bit, you know,
more on the up swing and people will be looking, the schools will be able to hire new teachers
and their budget will have been a little improved. So, so hopefully that'll be good.
Jack Gartland (38:54):
So you see it right in the center up here, the honorary degree.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah I was just noticing that, it's wonderful.
Jack Gartland (39:01):
I went to Georgetown college and then I went to Fordham law school and I got a graduate law
degree from St. John's law school. And I got the honorary degree from Marist.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
There's a picture with Barbara Walters and she received the Lowell Thomas award.
Jack Gartland (39:20):
Yeah, I sat next to her that day.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
There's a picture with one of the Marist brothers.
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Jack Gartland (39:37):
Linus Foy, when he was a brother and of course they, those brothers don't take criminal vows
until they get well on in years, they can, if they want to. So anytime they just go to their
provincial and say, you know, well, I want to leave. I want to be excused from my vows like that
generally to him and they go. So after he put 25 years in him, as an ex brother, I guess he decided
that he'd like to leave and which he did do. And I got married, had a couple of children and then
he stayed on as a lay person for a couple years after he did that as president of Marist and then
decided to leave. And then Denis Murray came in.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
The second lay president, Dennis Murray being first, but the second, we were speaking to brother
Bellinger yesterday, Joe Bellinger, and he was saying how one of the things he sees as interesting
is the president after Dr. Murray. The selection of, you know, when Dr. Murray decides to leave,
how is Marist gonna go depending on who is selected to be the next president?
Jack Gartland (40:59):
Well, it's interesting. We had a search committee for Dr. Murray and under affirmative action,
they had to advertise. And if my memory is correct they had like 144, something like that, put in
for it. So I was on a search committee, I think it were eight of us. And I said to the man who was
chairman, who was Cliff Wilson at that time, who was president of St. Austin gas and electric
corporation. And I said, I'm not gonna read any 144 resumes, I don't know what I'm doing. I said,
I think we better get a professional to help us in which we did do. And he narrowed it down to
around 10, and then there were two or three members of the faculty that bureau administration
put in for. So I said, well, who interviewed them also? And then he came back and said, you
know, I get a list of about 15 people who I think would make a good president of marriage
college, but they're not on the list to apply. One of that number was Dennis Murray. So Cliff
wrote a letter to each one of them. And if they were interested, to send a resume, if not, you
know, forget about it. So Dennis Murray originally sent in and said he was not interested in it. So
he, after about a week or 10 days, all of a sudden he wrote a second letter in saying that he
changed his mind, he was interested in it and he would like to be considered and he sent his
resume. So we had a vote, a secret vote on all the ones, because we were gonna narrow it down
to interview five people. And we had at that time, maybe a list of 30 with that other group. So of
the eight people, I was the only one that didn't vote to interview Dennis Murray. So my
reasoning behind it was in reading his resume, he went out on the west coast at Whittier college
and I said, oh, he just wants a free trip to the east coast so he can see New York and see
everything like that. And I don't think we should just pay to have a coffee or make a visit.
Because originally he said he wasn't interested. And I said, I think he only did this to get a trip,
but I was outvoted seven to one and they invited him here and the day they invited to interview
him, I had to be in New York city on a law case that our firm was handling, so I couldn't meet
with Dennis Murray. And when I was coming home, I was reading the paper where Whittier
college had just picked a new president and it wasn't Dennis Murray. So when I got home I call
Cliff Wilson and I said, you know, Whittier college, where he was, picked a new president. And
I said, if this guy Murray was such a hot shot, why didn't they pick him? So cliff, was like that's a
good question. So the search committee sent a couple men out there to California to find out
why. And of course, after we found out, it was very obvious, Whittier College is a Quaker
college and you had to be a Quaker to be president.
Jack Gartland (44:30):
12
So he was an Irish Catholic man, you know, so he didn't qualify there. So I suppose he figured,
well, I'll look around and see what other place I could go to. So he brought him back for a second
interview then where I met him. And now since he come here, I think he made a great president.
I think he's done a wonderful job for Marist College. And I'm happy now that they did select
him. I told him that story many times, we joke about it you know. How I was against him
initially and now came around as one of his probably best supporters.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Paradox. Didn't come out just for a free trip. It's good. it will be interesting to see what happens
after.
Jack Gartland (45:13):
Well true. We've had, as an executive vice president, he's had three, actually very good ones,
each one would make a good candidate. One went to Quinnipiac College and then the other was
over at Sacred Heart College in Bridgeport. And there's Mark Sullivan up here who is executive
vice president now. So there won't be a lack of candidates. Be interesting to see who.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
But we're not planning for that, he's not planning to leave yet, work isn't done yet.
Jack Gartland (46:09):
I think if he ever does leave though, I don't think he'll go to another college. Because most men
in his position who have been successful is recruited constantly, but mostly other colleges that
are financial difficulties or something like that expect him to come in and you know, who will
rev it out of the hat for them. So I think if the other ever does leave and you leave after a while, it
will be to go into business rather than going to another college. And at that time, we'll have to
see... and chances are we'll pick somebody who is familiar with Marist and just add on to
everything Dennis Murray has done out here...Finished?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
No! Whenever you want to finish talking we're finished. We want someone who can still adhere
to the mission statement and the mission of Marist, but still bring it financially capable, which he
seems to have done very well, extremely well. So yeah, he wouldn't be able to go to another
college and top what he's done here. Go into private business perhaps. Okay, I've completed my
questions but anything else to add?
Jack Gartland (47:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I want to thank you for your time. This is very valuable.
13
Gartland
Marist
College
Poughkeepsie,
NY
Transcribed
by
Amy
Dugan
For
the
Marist
College
Archives
and
Special
Collections
1
Gartland,
Jack
Transcript
–
Jack
Gartland
Interviewee:
Jack
Gartland
Interviewer:
Students
Interview
Date:
Location:
Topic:
Marist
College
History
Subject
Headings:
Gartland, Jack
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Executive
Marist Brothers – United States – History
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
Jack Gartland reflects on his first involvements with Marist on the advisory board.
He discusses Marist’s evolution from a Marist brother’s school to a Lay college which eventually
accepted women. Additionally, Jack Gartland talks about the McCann foundation, the changes
he’s see since President Murray arrived, as well as Marist’s biggest assets and liabilities.
2
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Why don't we just start from the beginning and how you first became involved with Marist you
know, starting way back when. What was your first involvement with Marist college?
Jack Gartland (00:31):
Well, it is on the video. I mean, with brother Paul Ambrose. He and I were trustees at the St.
Francis hospital school of nursing and one afternoon there were four other prisons on all women.
They were yacking yacking up one of our meetings and it got around five o'clock and I turned to
brother Paul and I said to him, you know, I said, these ladies are cutting into my cocktail hour. I
think we wanna get out of here. So he says, I'll go with you. So I said, come on, I'll buy you a
drink because he wouldn't go to any public place. So he said, come on over to my quarters at
Marist and I'll buy you a drink. So I said, okay. So I went over and of course of just having a
discussion, he said, our brothers are thinking very seriously of taking in some local students,
maybe 20 a year or something like that and to help give them an education. And he said, I'm
scared of death of bringing in lay people like that and what the consequences would be and
whether we can actually handle it. So he said, would you help me set up an advisory board to
help out? And I said, sure, I think it was 1956. SoI got a group of local men together and some
many, you know it all, we formed a little advisory group and he made me first chairman of that
group to help brother Paul Ambrose. And that's how actually how I got started on it. In the
following year, I think it was 1957, they took in their first lay students.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And then following that, just growing and growing. So you've been on the board then.
Jack Gartland (02:20):
And so, I stayed on it. First, only the brothers were on the board of Trustees, they had no lay
people. And I think in memory, you say 1958 or '59 or something like that had brought in brother
Linus Foy to be president and brother Paul Ambrose left to go to Rome, be one of their superior
generals. And so, Linus was there and like I say, the number relationships just kept growing and
growing, growing. So, I would say about 1967 or '68 or sometime like that, the brothers deeded
the whole place over to Marist college as a corporation. Which was an educational cooperation.
Deeded off all the land that was on the south side of waterworks road first. And then a year or
two later, everything was on a north side of waterworks road. And I think it was in 1967 that
they say made the first lay trustees. And Harold Spencer was the general manager, vice president
of Western printing. And I think he was the first lay trustee appointed. And then there were a few
others and in 1969 I was elected as a trustee of the college and I've been a trustee ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So over that whole span, how have you seen Marist change over that span besides going from a,
you know, the Marist brother's school to a lay college? How have you seen a change in other
years?
Jack Gartland (04:24):
Well, of course there's been so many changes. The big question arose when the advisory board,
before there was a lay board of trustees whether or not they should admit women to attend a
college as an example. And our advisory board was split. About half of them wanted to remain a
man's college and the other half wanted to let the girls in. What really changed their thinking, the
brothers thinking, and allowing it was, they decided to have an evening school because they
found out that in IBM alone, there were something like four or 5,000 employees down there who
3
had two years of junior college who may want to go back and get their degree. So, they thought
they opened up an evening school to help them and that grew to be very successful at their
evening school and women were allowed in the evening school. So, they said, well they're
allowed in the evening school why not in the day school? So, they decided to change and allow
young girls to enter college along with men. And I guess now, majority are women.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's come full circle.
Jack Gartland (05:54):
The times have changed. The John Schroeder who brother Paul Ambrose has mentioned many
times, had been down Oakwood school as a teacher. And he took over as Dean at the evening
division and did an excellent job and that grew, and at first it grew faster than the day college,
because now it's all amalgamated into one. And so that was one interesting thing that happened
in years. The physical plan, I was always a great believer that the better the physical plan is, the
more attractive it is, the more students will be attracted to college. And Marist has no big
endowment fund so they gotta rely on the number of students and the tuition generate it in order
to financially survive has proven to be successful. The fact that it is an attractive place and they
are attending and they do like it. And isn't just local students. There are, as you know, now, 2100
bids up there, I think something like that and they want to add about another 500.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
For the majority, so are attracting a lot. So you've really, and being at the McCann foundation, I
know there's a whole list of things that McCann has helped contribute the Gartland commons,
the McCann center. Why this special relationship between the McCann foundation and Marist
college? Is it just that it's a community, you know, organization that sees a need at Marist or is
there any history behind that?
Jack Gartland (07:47):
No, it's just the fact that our McCann trustees. We first built the McCann golf course in the city
of Poughkeepise, we rebuilt St. Mary's church, the CYO Kathy youth organization had a swim
program under Jack Kennedy, who at that time was head of warala corporation. And then he was
also mayor of city of Poughkeepsie. And he was, had been an assistant Olympic swimming
coach, and he was gun-ho about a program. And he had about 2,500 kids in the swim program.
So he approached me about the possibility of mechanic and building or contributing to build a
swimming pool indoors that wouldn't be able to accommodate them because they were, these
kids were getting up and going down to Y at like three o'clock in the morning at five o'clock in
the morning like that. And it was very hard on the parents and it was only the fact that so many
people wanted to swim and everything in the Y just couldn't accommodate everybody. And the
YW pool was also restricted in its usage only on a time basis. So it was no other school, all other
places they could later on the Poughkeepsie middle school built one, but that wasn't available
except for those students who, or little children who live in the city Poughkeepsie. So those
living in Wappingers and Hopewell Junction, Hyde Park like that had no program. So we were
sort of interested in doing that with the community here and having opened up for the benefit of
the community, but the place or the question was where do we put it? So I investigated a lot of
places. So Marist college seemed to be the most likely place that would, we knew would remain
in existence for the whole time. And so we approached him with the idea of building a year
round swim pool under their jurisdiction that would be open to the community and a community
could use it and Marist was agreeable to it. And then Marist also had been wanting to build a
4
new gym. So they said, well, let's build a field house along with the swimming pool. So we
combined the two ideas and everything built the McCann center. And I suppose that's not really
how we got interested in Marist but that was one of the big things we did. How we really got
interested in Marist was that Jim McCann was a lie. And I used to say to him, Jim, what would
you like me to do with your money? If, when God takes you with your great reward. And I said I
only trust looking for me to be the bird dog up here and try to find out. So he said, oh, when that
time comes, he goes, you're going to have to decide all that. Not me. I said, come on, Jim it
would be something. Well, he said the only real thing I would like to see is all those kids across
the street, because he lived across from Lord's high school. So he said, I'd like to see those kids
make sure they get a college education. So he died at like the end of February in 1969. So I went
to the principal of the high school and I said in your senior class graduating, how many are
gonna graduate? And how many are gonna go to college that you know of and how many are
eligible to go to college and like that. So I've forgotten the exact number now, but it was over
200 and I think they're all- what 20- were gonna go to college and had made arrangements and
everything. So I said, find out from the other 20, why they're not going to go to college. And I
think it was like 10 or 12 of that number had taken SATs, but they couldn't afford it and they
couldn't get an assistance. So I went to Marist college and I said, graduating from Lords this year
are 20 students down there that would like to go to college and academically could go to college,
but they don't have the means so we'll give you a money for scholarship program and you'll
manage it and you'll handle it. It doesn't have to be restricted to Lords. It can be anybody in the
Dutchess county area if you want it. But I said, just look it over and see if kids are eligible to go
and if so, give an opportunity.
Jack Gartland (12:59):
So the number that had been proposed for that freshman class that year had already been filled
up, but I said, alright, they can take them. As long as the kids apply before May one, I think it
was. So I told that to the principal over there, they had these kids apply and think every one of
them got a scholarship for their tuition and everything cause they were living at home and they
were boarding students. And they went up there, there were four or five that figured they never
could afford to go so they never took the SATs. So I made an arrangement at Marist and I told
these kids, you go to community college for a year, take a liberal arts program, and if you are
successful and pass all your courses, Marist will take you as a transfer student. And they did that.
The beauty of this whole program was of the first 48 young people who had a McCann
scholarship, everyone graduated from Marist. I don't know what the figure is now because we
give them $50,000 a year and they pick anybody they want.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I have a McCann scholarship right now, so I'm grateful for that, so that's great.
Jack Gartland (14:18):
Not enough is like in the street accord set up by those students who are a bit above it and call
themselves the McCann scholars and that, which I thought was quite interesting. That's really
how I got involved with Marist and McCann getting involved in Marist and giving him
something. And then we just have multiplied on that as we see Marist grow, we realize how
important it is for the community here. And so we've been given them more money and all the
money we've given them is predicated upon making a campus more attractive, more, more
attractive, and doing things that will benefit them in attracting future students. Today's economy
and with the population, the way it has been going, most of all colleges figured that there's gonna
5
be a lack of students sometime around. This time from now like 1996 or '97, the Marist has been
growing every year anyway and I think a lot of it has to do with what we've done, particularly
making all the athletic fields and all the areas around there, like on north side where it cost about
a million six to purchase a land and make those athletic fields. But there's a girls softball
diamond, a men's softball diamond and two complete intermural football fields, plus two outdoor
basketball courts, a volleyball court, and then on the south end of the campus, since Marist's
gonna go into division one baseball and new baseball diamonds built, we fixed up the football
practice field so it can also be used for soccer, rugby and lacrosse. So then the McCann center,
not only the swim program, but then we go into division one basketball and there's racquetball
courts. So I think the facilities up there are very good to attract students in the college to zone
funds and dormitory authority funds have built a little Thomas center, the Dyson center, the
townhouses, the apartment houses, and the Marion hall, and now we're contemplating building a
residence or multiple residence for about 500 more beds.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I've heard rumors of that.
Jack Gartland (17:16):
Yeah, well, it's in the works. I was chairman of the board, I think in 1972 or 1973. And since that
time, I've been chairman of the building and ground committee of the college. I meet every
single Wednesday morning at nine o'clock for about an hour/hour and a half. And we go over all
the needs and all the progress in relation to the buildings and the ground. So I'm very interested
in buildings and new grounds.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Definitely. It's just, I mean, with the renovation of Donnelly and all that.
Jack Gartland (17:43):
Oh, renovation of Donnelly. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That's incredible. That's a beautiful building.
Jack Gartland (17:50):
We renovated pine hall, we renovated Leo and Sheahan, and then there's all the ground and site
work and connecting to the north end of the campus to the south end of the campus. Trying to
make it all one.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Because I bring tours around campus and people are impressed by just the physical plant of it
besides being on the Hudson, which is nice. They are really nice buildings. Related to the
McCann foundation and the community, how do you see Marist's role in the community? You
know, for the past like 10 years or the past time that you've seen it, how have you seen Marist's
role in the community change?
Jack Gartland (18:32):
Well let's look at our educational institutions like Vassar college. Vassar college of course is a
much older college started just as a female college and attracted students from all over the United
States. In fact, became like a national international type of a college. And for a long time local
girls were not encouraged to go to Vassar college. They didn't like commuter students. The only
local girls who went, went to become boarding students at Vassar because they didn't want
6
commuters because they changed that. In modern society, they almost had to, and they do have a
lot of local girls. Mccann has given them money too to help what they call it, commuter student
center, they have out the there, and we give them money for scholarships also for local students,
male and female. Community college arose right after the war. And that's grown tremendously to
meet a need for technical education of students, and they have various programs up there to help
them become employed and to, you know, get out into the job market, like teach them to some
surveyors and criminal justice for policemen and nursing and different things like that. But
Marist has a liberal arts college, the same as Vassar started right from scratch and had a grow up
by its own bootstraps which it has done. And initially, just handling commuter students or your
local students when, before they have resident students prove to be a void among the middle
class people and among the even poorer class where they had a struggle, they get an education
and they did, they had the upper bound program and different things like that to encourage the
poorer, economically poorer students to attend college. And I think that's proven very successful.
Then as they start putting dormitory's in and residents saw going that much more by attracting
them out of the area, students in Connecticut, New Jersey and New York City, places like that.
And this year, it's even spread farther away from that there's wall sections of New England and
sections of the Midwest and some the south and like that are now coming to Marist College as
this reputation grows. So bringing those students in, and of course they spend a lot of money
locally here, so it should have helped the economic elements of the community. Besides that,
Dennis Murray, who has been president now for, I think it's gone on his 12th year, has always
encouraged all his staff to get involved in community affairs. So I serve on the board of civic
center and the area fund and the Boy Scouts and different non-profit organizations like that,
which are community oriented. And he's encouraged that. Plus in fact, he's also encouraged the
use of the facilities up here, like local people to use the theater, use the McCann center they use
the fields up there for a lot of community affairs. So Marist has become an integral part of the
community. Probably a lot more so then other places like Vassar or Bard because Bard is like a
compound all by itself. It's isolated and Vassar has encouraged its, you know, international
reputation, although they tried recently to encourage a lot of local students to go there. But it's
from an economic point of view, they probably are students from families that have more of
God's good son on earth here than others.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Willing to Dr. Murray, how has Marist changed beside theories that you mentioned since he's
come on board as president, how have you seen Marist change?
Jack Gartland (23:39):
Well, it's continued to grow and I think Dr. Murray has encouraged all the beautification of the
campus, the use of the campus he's encouraged all the participation in inter-collegiate athletics,
inter-collegiate affairs, he himself gotten out not only just in the community here, but all over the
United States, giving seminars and lectures and everything like that. He continues to teach public
affairs and his doctorate is in public affairs. So he's made sure that everybody in the community
once it's possible has continued to participate actively in community affairs as an example, the
institute of public opinion and things like that. He's encouraged those, which of course enhances
Marist college's reputation. And the reputation is spreading. I would say in the 11 years he's been
here, it's grown from a localized institution into a, well, semi national institution.
Jack Gartland (25:16):
7
This is well known as a lot of other big colleges or universities like Georgetown or Michigan or
things like that. But at the same time, it's reputation as a small liberal arts college has grown
tremendously. And one of the things that he was able to bring about is the relationship with IBM.
And I think in that of itself has been a great accomplishment because the joint study with IBM
has made Marist college probably one of the leading, not the leading, small liberal arts college in
the United States in relation to computer science in relation to what the students obtain from
association with IBM.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
What do you see as Marist's greatest asset right now and it's greatest liability?
Jack Gartland (26:17):
I think one great asset that Marist has is its board of trustees here. 33 people on the board, they
have four regular meetings a year, and then every month the executive committee meets and
invites other members of board and a majority whether's living on the executive committee, I
think. And the majority of all the trustees attend those monthly meetings and really work at it. So
you take a board like that as very active and participating in everything is a great asset for the
college. The other elements that Dr. Murray has done is by spreading the word of Marist college
throughout the whole area. So I think in his regime of there, it's been very, very helpful and has
gotten a lot better known and the other things that I mentioned earlier, but IBM is like that. What
was the second part of your question?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
A liability of Marist.
Jack Gartland (27:35):
Well, probably the biggest liability in every college like that is it's debt structure and financial
debt structure. And Marist has that well in hand, I think. It's the assumptions that had to be made
in order to finance everything has been on the conservative side and the business vice president
for Marist college, Tony Capelli, has been there a long, long time. And he does all the ins and
outs of the college financially. And he's able to keep a good handle on it, so that expenditures
and that structure doesn't get out of hand and the way he has structured everything from a dead
point of view has been very, very good. So I don't think that while it's a potential liability, at this
point, I don't think it's any real liability.
Jack Gartland (28:44):
I think one of the great things they did in their expansion when they went to Marist east, go with
some printing plan and realizing the money that had to be spent in order to bring it up to code for
classrooms and like that, that they said, well, we're only here on a temporary basis. Our best
thing is to take that money and put it into a new classroom building, which is the Dyson center.
So with the gift from the Dyson family and the balance of money necessary to build that by
restructuring the whole debt service and moving everybody back on the west side of the route
nine for on the campus there has been an excellent service for the students and an excellent thing,
which all is easily within the debt structure and the vice president for business administration has
done up here.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
What would be your most vivid memory of Marist? If one thing could stand out, what would be
the first thing that comes to mind?
8
Jack Gartland (30:02):
Well, I suppose there were really two things. For myself personally, one was they gave me an
honorary degree, which I appreciate very much and thought that great. The second thing is when
they named the apartment complex up here and the athletic fields as the Gartland commons in
honor of my life and myself. And I said at the time, I was glad it was in honor of, not memory of.
I suppose that there was a third thing too, it was really very touching. About three or four years
ago, the McCann scholars had a luncheon one day and they presented me with a green jacket,
knowing I like to play golf and everything. They had a copy made of a green jacket given when,
when the master's golf tournament. So they gave me one designed by Jack Nicholas, and I just
thought that was a very touching thing for those students to do.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
What do you see as the greatest challenge now for the future? The greatest challenge faced by
Marist for the years to come, moving into the 1990s to the year 2000?
Jack Gartland (31:20):
Well that, I think basically we might also consider the overcoming of a possible liability, and that
is the reimbursement for the students by the state of New York. Because of the budget
constraints in the state, they had to cut the funding money in half and also the money that they
allow students to borrow in order to complete their education. So without that money available,
the question is whether the enrollment will decrease and drop down. If it does, since Marist relies
on the income from the students alone and not from any endowment fund, it had to watch out
very, very carefully. So that is a potential liability but at the same time for the future, it's
something that has to be watched very carefully so that the student population can stay up to
what it should be for Marist to properly survive. Because you take a lot of colleges, like I just
read recently, Syracuse university, it's had a big decrease in the enrollment up there mainly
caused by the lack of financial aid that they can give the students and the decrease in the funding
money. You know, what the funding money is?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah it's institutional by the state. So, that would seem to be one of the greatest things coming
with the New York state budget. Let's see. Anything else you you'd like to mention? I've covered
on my base questions here. You seemed to cover a lot of areas, anything else I should mention
that comes to mind?
Jack Gartland (33:22):
Well, there was a brother up there who was in the library who was collecting together a lot of the
memorabilia of the college and a lot of the early days of the brothers up there and that should all
be fairly well documented. From the time that it was turned over to the lay board in a lay college
on it. He also was collecting material, but I don't know whether anybody's ever coordinated it or
not into a history. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I think there's a file or two, in a librarian or the library director's office of things, photographs, of
brothers and the Marist campus of its change and some information, but it's never been put
together into an actual archive. It's never been organized or you know, compiled any type of
history. There's also student newspapers that have been saved, but they're falling pieces from
what I understand, they need to be microfilmed and just seems to be information out there. A lot
of the professors who were students or brothers from the early days seem to have some
9
information, but no, one's done the effort of gathering that altogether and organizing it. So
hopefully that, that will happen. There'll be some type of archivist or some type of program set
up by the board or the president to bring all this information together. So Marist can have a
written history with the Marist archives on the premises. Some of the faculty, I guess, have
expressed some interest in that, but it just needs to come together to get coordinated. So
hopefully we'll add these videotapes to the collection. Hopefully something will be done with
them. They won't just, you know, sit and collect dust and the next generation will say, oh, maybe
we should do the same thing. Hopefully it'll come together in some type of project or some type
of effort. The president seemed to express an interest in it when some of our class members went
there and spoke to him, said he would like to see an archivist commission to take care of Marist
history and bring all these things together do you know, official work for it. So hopefully that'll
happen over the next few years.
Jack Gartland (35:41):
Well, Adrian, we call brother Adrian, but then he left the whatever and Adrian had that
collection up there. I know he had it in the library and cause I gave him a lot of stuff to where he
was. I hope it is. I hope that they do have somebody that can make a nice narrative history of it
and bring all that together.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
It seems to be there, but just no one has gone around and there's nobody saving things right now.
I mean, I guess because we see like the circles and you know, the newspapers and the things that
go around, we save them and then we throw them out. There's no one who's saying, well, save
this or this is the central location where Marist should save the minutes where Marist should save
the graduation programs or, you know, all these things that you're not thinking about now, but 50
years from now, they're gonna say, gee I wish we had saved that. So I'm sure that will come up,
you know, as the 50th anniversary gets closer. I assume there'll be some sort of celebration in
1996. So it'll be good to have something more than a brief history that's in the catalog, you know,
that's founded by, you know, Marist, but it's something beyond that we can actually remember
and people can speak of anecdotes. And just, I remember when...
Jack Gartland (37:03):
Do you live on campus or do you live at home?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I live at home, so it's a 20 minute commute, but I mean, just in the three years that we've been
there, it's changed. When I came in, they just started the renovation of Donnelly. And I
remember they, they didn't close the building, so I saw the old and now it's just incredible the
way they, they renovated that. The Dyson center didn't exist.
Jack Gartland (37:25):
What is this? What- must be $70 million spent on Donnelly?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah. Lowell Thomas getting a basement there.
Jack Gartland (37:34):
You live locally here?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yes. I live in Marlborough right across the river.
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Jack Gartland (37:39):
You live at home?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, I live at home. Yeah. About a 20-25 minute commute.
Jack Gartland (37:48):
This is your third year also?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yes.
Jack Gartland (37:51):
What do you girls intend to do when you finish?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I wanna go onto graduate school and hopefully get a teaching job at a high school or middle
school anywhere in, you know, the area of Dutchess county. So I'd like to go right into that.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, I wanna go on and be a history teacher.
Jack Gartland (38:08):
Good. Well, good luck to you. I certainly hope both of you can succeed.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I hope so. Planning it today in our class, we were talking about careers.
Jack Gartland (38:18):
My wife and I have eight children. So we watch each one of them. Now we have 12
grandchildren to watch and my oldest grandson is going to enter college next year. So and he's
around looking at colleges all over the place.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It's tough, but hopefully by the time we graduate, the economy will be a little bit, you know,
more on the up swing and people will be looking, the schools will be able to hire new teachers
and their budget will have been a little improved. So, so hopefully that'll be good.
Jack Gartland (38:54):
So you see it right in the center up here, the honorary degree.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah I was just noticing that, it's wonderful.
Jack Gartland (39:01):
I went to Georgetown college and then I went to Fordham law school and I got a graduate law
degree from St. John's law school. And I got the honorary degree from Marist.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
There's a picture with Barbara Walters and she received the Lowell Thomas award.
Jack Gartland (39:20):
Yeah, I sat next to her that day.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
There's a picture with one of the Marist brothers.
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Jack Gartland (39:37):
Linus Foy, when he was a brother and of course they, those brothers don't take criminal vows
until they get well on in years, they can, if they want to. So anytime they just go to their
provincial and say, you know, well, I want to leave. I want to be excused from my vows like that
generally to him and they go. So after he put 25 years in him, as an ex brother, I guess he decided
that he'd like to leave and which he did do. And I got married, had a couple of children and then
he stayed on as a lay person for a couple years after he did that as president of Marist and then
decided to leave. And then Denis Murray came in.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
The second lay president, Dennis Murray being first, but the second, we were speaking to brother
Bellinger yesterday, Joe Bellinger, and he was saying how one of the things he sees as interesting
is the president after Dr. Murray. The selection of, you know, when Dr. Murray decides to leave,
how is Marist gonna go depending on who is selected to be the next president?
Jack Gartland (40:59):
Well, it's interesting. We had a search committee for Dr. Murray and under affirmative action,
they had to advertise. And if my memory is correct they had like 144, something like that, put in
for it. So I was on a search committee, I think it were eight of us. And I said to the man who was
chairman, who was Cliff Wilson at that time, who was president of St. Austin gas and electric
corporation. And I said, I'm not gonna read any 144 resumes, I don't know what I'm doing. I said,
I think we better get a professional to help us in which we did do. And he narrowed it down to
around 10, and then there were two or three members of the faculty that bureau administration
put in for. So I said, well, who interviewed them also? And then he came back and said, you
know, I get a list of about 15 people who I think would make a good president of marriage
college, but they're not on the list to apply. One of that number was Dennis Murray. So Cliff
wrote a letter to each one of them. And if they were interested, to send a resume, if not, you
know, forget about it. So Dennis Murray originally sent in and said he was not interested in it. So
he, after about a week or 10 days, all of a sudden he wrote a second letter in saying that he
changed his mind, he was interested in it and he would like to be considered and he sent his
resume. So we had a vote, a secret vote on all the ones, because we were gonna narrow it down
to interview five people. And we had at that time, maybe a list of 30 with that other group. So of
the eight people, I was the only one that didn't vote to interview Dennis Murray. So my
reasoning behind it was in reading his resume, he went out on the west coast at Whittier college
and I said, oh, he just wants a free trip to the east coast so he can see New York and see
everything like that. And I don't think we should just pay to have a coffee or make a visit.
Because originally he said he wasn't interested. And I said, I think he only did this to get a trip,
but I was outvoted seven to one and they invited him here and the day they invited to interview
him, I had to be in New York city on a law case that our firm was handling, so I couldn't meet
with Dennis Murray. And when I was coming home, I was reading the paper where Whittier
college had just picked a new president and it wasn't Dennis Murray. So when I got home I call
Cliff Wilson and I said, you know, Whittier college, where he was, picked a new president. And
I said, if this guy Murray was such a hot shot, why didn't they pick him? So cliff, was like that's a
good question. So the search committee sent a couple men out there to California to find out
why. And of course, after we found out, it was very obvious, Whittier College is a Quaker
college and you had to be a Quaker to be president.
Jack Gartland (44:30):
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So he was an Irish Catholic man, you know, so he didn't qualify there. So I suppose he figured,
well, I'll look around and see what other place I could go to. So he brought him back for a second
interview then where I met him. And now since he come here, I think he made a great president.
I think he's done a wonderful job for Marist College. And I'm happy now that they did select
him. I told him that story many times, we joke about it you know. How I was against him
initially and now came around as one of his probably best supporters.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Paradox. Didn't come out just for a free trip. It's good. it will be interesting to see what happens
after.
Jack Gartland (45:13):
Well true. We've had, as an executive vice president, he's had three, actually very good ones,
each one would make a good candidate. One went to Quinnipiac College and then the other was
over at Sacred Heart College in Bridgeport. And there's Mark Sullivan up here who is executive
vice president now. So there won't be a lack of candidates. Be interesting to see who.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
But we're not planning for that, he's not planning to leave yet, work isn't done yet.
Jack Gartland (46:09):
I think if he ever does leave though, I don't think he'll go to another college. Because most men
in his position who have been successful is recruited constantly, but mostly other colleges that
are financial difficulties or something like that expect him to come in and you know, who will
rev it out of the hat for them. So I think if the other ever does leave and you leave after a while, it
will be to go into business rather than going to another college. And at that time, we'll have to
see... and chances are we'll pick somebody who is familiar with Marist and just add on to
everything Dennis Murray has done out here...Finished?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
No! Whenever you want to finish talking we're finished. We want someone who can still adhere
to the mission statement and the mission of Marist, but still bring it financially capable, which he
seems to have done very well, extremely well. So yeah, he wouldn't be able to go to another
college and top what he's done here. Go into private business perhaps. Okay, I've completed my
questions but anything else to add?
Jack Gartland (47:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I want to thank you for your time. This is very valuable.
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