Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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Joseph Bettencourt


Marist College

Poughkeepsie, NY

Transcribed by Erin Kelly

For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections















Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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Transcript: Joseph Bettencourt

Interviewee:
Dr. Joseph Bettencourt
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan

Interview date:
15 November 2002

Location:
Marist Archives and Special Collections Reading Room

Topic:
Marist College History


Subject Headings:

Marist Brothers - United States - History
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects


Summary:
In the following interview, Dr. Joseph Bettencourt reflects on his past thirty-
seven years at Marist. In the beginning of the interview, Dr. Bettencourt speaks of his
educational years and the attainment of his Masters and Ph.D., as well as his continued
research. Dr. Bettencourt’s career in the Science Department at Marist College is
outlined from its beginning in 1965 to the current time at which he is the Chairman of the
Science Department as well as the Pre-Medical advisor and professor of many courses in
the Science Department. At the end of the interview, Dr. Bettencourt speaks of the
expansion of Marist College as a whole as well as the development of the science
curriculum and voices his feelings concerning the current direction of the College.







Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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“BEGINNING OF INTERVIEW”

Gus Nolan:
Good afternoon. This is an interview this afternoon with Dr. Joseph
Bettencourt. He is in the Biology Department at Marist College. Today is Friday
November 15
th
. It’s about 1:15 in the afternoon. Good afternoon, Dr. Bettencourt.

Dr. Joseph Bettencourt:
Good afternoon.

GN:
Joe, could you give us your full name please?

JSB:
My full name is Joseph Sousa Bettencourt V.

GN:
Were you named after any member of the family? It sounds like it. [Laughter]

JSB:
Yes, my father. We’ve had a tradition, and my son is the VI so we’re keeping it
going.

GN:
Where and when were you born?

JSB:
I was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts in 1940. March 5, 1940.

GN:
And what about your early education?



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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JSB:
I went to Thorndike Grammar School, and I went to Cambridge High and Latin
over in the city of Cambridge in Massachusetts.

GN:
Do you have any siblings, brothers or sisters?

JSB:
Yea, I have one brother. He’s younger than myself and I have two sisters. So,
there’s a total of four of us and they’ve skipped exactly that way. I was first, my sister
Virginia, was second, my brother Robert and then my sister Diane.

GN:
Are they still active and alive today?

JSB:
Oh yes, yes. Most of them lived in Maine. One sister lives in Massachusetts. The
others all live in Maine.

GN:
You are really a New Englander, born and bred.

JSB:
Yes, born and raised although my brother did live in Florida for about fifteen years
and came back and saw the life.

GN:
What were your parents’ names Joe?



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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JSB:
My mother’s name was Margaret Catherine Bettencourt, Margaret Catherine
MacDonald. It’s from Nova Scotia. She was an American citizen, but she lived up in
Nova Scotia for eighteen years of her life in Antigonish, Nova Scotia.

GN:
Have you ever been there?

JSB:
No, I haven’t although I live right in Maine and we have family up there, this
summer we’re going to not teach for the first time. So, we’re going to take the ferry over
and visit.

GN:
Liz and I were there last summer. Yea, that place in particular. And your father,
what’s he do?

JSB:
My father worked in a book company, Ginn Publishing Company, in
Massachusetts and he was just a factory laborer. He was manager of shipping for the
company, the plant that was in Cambridge, Massachusetts so he published college and a
lot of high school, grammar school texts. So, he was in charge of the fitness positions
who commute to the schools and get them on the trucks and sold and so forth type of
thing, so he was a shipping manager. My mother, most of her life, stayed home and
raised the kids and in her later years, when we were in high school, she went back to
work just to keep busy a little bit. So, she just did some work in a factory type of
situation. Neither of my parents finished high school education so the big thing was I


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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was the first of my family to actually go to college so that was a big event and then to go
to graduate school and so forth. So that was a big event for them. Me too. [Laughter]

GN:
Let’s change gears a little bit and talk about your personal. What about marriage to
Martha? When and where did that take place? Where’d you meet her?

JSB:
Martha, I met at college. We both went to Suffolk University. Martha had gone to
a parochial school and she had received a scholarship for journalism even though she
didn’t study journalism at Suffolk University. She then switched to be a Biology major
so I knew her from some classes. Because of her switch, I was ahead of her in courses
and it actually turned out I was her lab instructor, or lab assistant, in Comparative
Anatomy and that’s when we started dating. It was senior year and then we got married
after my first year at graduate school.

GN:
Do you recall the year?

JSB:
Yea, we got married in 1963.

GN:
And what about the children now? Where are they and how many are there?

JSB:
There are three children. Terry, she lives right in Hyde Park and has three children
so I have three grandchildren through her. She works at Vassar College as Manager of
Food Service or one of the managers in Food Service at Vassar College. I have a son, JB,


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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he’s Joseph VI. He actually came to Marist, graduated from Marist with a degree in
Mathematics. He is working now. He played on the soccer team here. He’s working at
Main General Hospital in Augusta, Maine. He’s Director of Computers for the whole
hospital so he is involved with both the medical end of it and the office end of it. So it
was an unusual situation. He came here first thinking of computers so we bought a
computer. I was against it. Now I’m the one that uses it at home. He circulated back
and has gone into computers. He builds them himself so he’s quite proficient at it. He
has attained several certifications and software through getting certificates that he’s
gotten so he’s doing quite well. He has two children so I have five grandchildren total.
And they just bought a house in Gorham, Maine and he owns two other houses that he
rents out and one in, well both are in Maine, one in South Port, Maine and the other is in
Portland. So that’s what he did. He had learned from Howard Gold on how to
recondition places and so what he has done is he’s bought a house and his first house
what he did is he rented out two flats, lived in one, then he would renovate that one.
Then he would move up because he could charge better rent then. He would move up
and invade another so when he went to the third one, he was through so he’s renting that
house. And then I’ve got a son, James. Jim is the one that is still finding himself, so to
speak. He’s thirty-one now. He’s worked at many different things. He started college
and he has a hard time putting himself to taking tests. He’s done quite well though, I
mean, he works, again, in food management area. He has managed at several restaurants
and he cooks as well.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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GN:
Okay, let’s come back to you and your career. Where did you do you
undergraduate degree?

JSB:
My undergraduate degree was at Suffolk University in Boston.

GN:
That’s a four-year college?

JSB:
That’s a four-year college. It’s most noted for Suffolk Law School in
Massachusetts. It’s right behind the State Capital. I spent four years there. I then…

GN:
You have to clarify because we have a Suffolk Community College on Long Island.

JSB:
Right, right I know. [Laughter] Then I went to the University of New Hampshire
in Maine, I mean New Hampshire, it helps if it’s in New Hampshire. You have to edit
that one out. [Laughter] And I was there for my Master’s and I had worked on a Ph.D. I
have an unusual history with my graduate education with Marist. I was applying, I was
working in the area of Parisitology and had done some work on a research project and I
was applying for an NSF grant so my reason actually for coming to Marist was that I
could not qualify for the grant if I had three continuous years at graduate school. So,
what I did as I was leaving to try to qualify for this NSF grant and so I took a position at
Marist but I was honest with them. It was a tender trap position and George Hooper had
driven in from Princeton to interview me because he was on sabbatical that year and I
was up front and said that I can only guarantee commitment for one year because if I get


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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the grant, I won’t go back. As it turns out, I did not get the grant in the national
competition, so there was no guarantee. I ended up staying. I had been working on this
research project so it was something that I could still do, going back and forth as Gus
knows in the early days at Marist, many of us were working on degrees over prolonged
periods of time. And I had a wife and two kids at that particular time as well. So I stayed
a second year and I was going back and forth to New Hampshire to continue collecting
data for my research and working at Marist at my writing. During my second year, at
Christmas, I got a note from my mentor. He had gone to a conference, and someone was
working on exactly the same thing I was working on and was just ready to publish it so
all my work went down the drain. So at that particular time, I went back, I went up to
New Hampshire to visit with him to look at what to do. And of course, the big question
was with my wife, I already had the master’s at that point, Marist did not require a Ph.D.
I had to make a decision, but it was a family decision. Do I just stay here, or do I go back
and start all over again on research? And she said let’s go. So, I quickly went out with
him, looked at other research projects I could possibly do and contacted the Chairman of
the department to make sure they would give me fellowship or assistance, financial
assistance, and he said no problem. So, I left Marist. At that time, George Hooper said
“Well how long do you think it will take you?” and in science you never really know
because it depends on how the data goes. So, what they did is kept the job open for one
year and he called or I called and said I believe you understand you’re advertised for a
full-time person, etcetera and they kept it open for one more semester. At that particular
point, I had enough data that I felt I could come back here and work in the office here. I


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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collected slides and so I could do looking here and analyzing the data and writing here.
That takes a long period of time, as you know, trying to do it at night at Marist.

GN:
Yea.

JSB:
And those days…

GN:
Limited conditions.

JSB:
Limited conditions, right.

GN:
We’re being modest about that. [Laughter]

JSB:
Yea, and the second thing that was a big factor is one of the things that was
intriguing about Marist is when I first was hired here, the condition I was hired on was
that I would teach Embryology. And I said, well I only have only have had one course
myself and both of the senior faculty members here said “That’s good because one of us
has not had any, the other one doesn’t want to touch it.” [Laughter] So actually that was
one of the things that I benefited in going back was I taught Embryology. And when I
went back for that year and a half, I took a couple courses and sat in on several seminars,
so I was able to build up my own scholarly knowledge on that particular area and such.
And then I worked on it and finally finished my Ph.D. in 1975. So, I started at Marist in
’65 because of interruptions and things.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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GN:
Well, what was the connection? How did you get here though?

JSB:
How did I know about Marist? Okay.

GN:
Slide the car down and know where to park?

JSB:
Right, okay. One of the things that we had at the University of New Hampshire in
the office is that the Chairman of the department had a folder that was always… Marist
had sent a flyer to various colleges, graduate schools and one of the flyers in there was
Marist College. I went through looking.

GN:
George Hooper was the one?

JSB:
George Hooper was the one who circulated these out to the graduate schools and
that’s not uncommon by the way in the sciences. And what I did is I simply looked at it
and I then went and talked to the Chairman because I didn’t know anything about Marist
at all. He did.

GN:
Few people knew about Marist at that time.

JSB:
Right, he did. As a matter of fact, he knew exactly where it was located
geographically. I think he was from New York originally and so he knew about it and he


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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said, “I think you’ll like it. It’s a small atmosphere.” He knew that I liked the interaction
with students in the laboratory situation so he thought it would be a… And he said “Well,
you’re going only for a one-year commitment or you’re only committing yourself for one
year. It’ll get you to another geographic location, see if you like the small school
atmosphere versus the large school” since I was at UNH, where some of the lectures in
the undergraduate were four hundred students. So, that was my history, that part of it.

GN:
Okay, when you came back full-time, what was your first series of courses?
What’re you teaching? Is Embryology in there?

JSB:
Embryology is in there. I was asked to… They had an unusual arrangement of
classes in science at Marist when I first arrived. I had never seen it…

GN:
We’ll get to that later though.

JSB:
Okay. I had never seen an arrangement like that at any college in the country.
They hired a, well I guess they hired, they had a sister, I can’t think of her name right
now, from Mt. Saint Mary who used to come over here and teach Histology, Cell Biology
and Genetics, which was all integrated into one course. And in reality, every other place,
each one is an individual entity on their own. So, one of the things was they asked if I
could develop this because, not putting anything against her, but that course would not
exactly prepare students very well for med-school, graduate school, etcetera because they
would have to touch a little bit on all three in one semester. So, I was asked to develop


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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each of those courses as individual courses and to primarily develop labs because Marist
had very little lab space at all. I always remember my first walking into Marist. I arrived
in August, and they had told me when I was interviewed they would have an office for
me and so forth. I walked in and I said, well I came a month early and so I said I could
get started and so forth, work on lecture notes, etcetera. And I walked in with a book, a
box of books and I said, “Can you show me where my office is?” and they said “We
haven’t built it yet.” [Laughter] So I was standing there with a box of books and what
they did, I thought it was very intriguing, three Marist Brothers came over and they took
a petition of plywood on the back of the lab upstairs had that little alcovey doorway here.
They put a wall there to square off the room, there was my office. It had a huge lab table
like this in there and I could fit my chair in and they built a little bookcase on the side
with three shelves. This was all done in maybe two and a half, three hours so I was ready
to go in. They said, “Well, you have one.” And the only thing I always remember is if I
sat in my chair and someone came to come in my office, I’d get hit in the back of the
head with the door [Laughter] so we had a thing, “Please knock.” And I always
remember the experience I had with the first day I left my notes on the table for the
weekend. I said well I’ll go home for the weekend, come back and work on this and I
came back and everything was wet. Well someone says, “Oh yea someone should have
told you, we know where some of the leaks are but if you put a bucket there, you’ll be
okay.” [Laughter] So it was an interesting exposure for the first things but I’ve always
been intrigued by how quickly they’re able to respond and provided what I needed at best
they could until further. I’m probably not going in the order you want.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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GN:
No, it’s fine. We do instant coffee. [Laughter] Besides you first teaching classes,
what were some of the assignments that you had?

JSB:
Okay, the very first assignment I had was… Marist, at that time, was trying for the
very first time what they call Freshman Seminars. And what this was set up was that an
individual faculty member would have a group of, I think it was fifteen students but they
would not, I’m a science person, they would not all be science majors. The idea was
supposed to be that you get to integrate with different types of majors and so forth.
Doherty, our faculty, was one of those students and so I’ve known Doherty as a freshman
and all the way through when I was in college teaching.

GN:
There was a strange name for that.

JSB:
Yea, there was. I can’t even think of it. You know, we had abbreviated just
Freshman Seminars but there was an unusual name for it and so that was the first
assignment that I had that was different other than developing courses. My first
committee assignment came a couple years after that and that was with Brother Adrian
Perreault from the library. [Laughter] That was my baptism. You hear about that?

GN:
I want to hear about that one.

JSB:
I always remember as a new person going to that committee, we had to make
decisions on books, and I was supposed to collect them for the sciences and then you


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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were supposed to present things. And I always remember, I spoke up at one of the
meetings and I got put down by Brother Adrian. He called me a pipsqueak; I always
remember that. He called me the young pipsqueak and he said, “You should not be
speaking at all your first year on this committee.” So that was my baptism.

GN:
Was Bob Lewis on that committee?

JSB:
Bob Lewis, I think was on that committee.

GN:
He spoke highly of that committee too. [Laughter] So you had library committee,
work, and you had the seminars?

JSB:
Yes.

GN:
I think Howie Goldman called it the Chinese torture.

JSB:
Yes.

GN:
You went in everyday, and you never knew what the drops were going to do.

JSB:
That’s correct. [Laughter]



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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GN:
Okay, moving on, as time goes on, you’ve become a well-known faculty advisor.
Where did you pick up the knowledge that you have about medical school and being able
to advise students in that direction?

JSB:
That was an interesting baptism into that too. My wife has often said, “It’s a
wonder you stayed here.” [Laughter] The first year I was here, George Hooper was
Chairperson. George had been away the year that I was being to do… Dan Bean, I don’t
know if you remember Dan Bean, he was the other faculty member here. And so my
wife when I first came says “You know, you’ve got one guy that’s away and you’ve got
another guy that’s got one year.” Dan had sent the letter who was Chairman of the
Department, one year’s experience, she says “Do you know what you’re walking into?” I
had offers at other schools but they were primarily state universities in Massachusetts,
American University in Washington and I just really felt I wanted to try a small school
atmosphere so that was another aspect. But, I’m trying to remember the question.

GN:
What led you to med-school?

JSB:
Oh, the med-school. The interesting thing about that was there is an organization
called The Northeast Association of Advisors for the Health Professions. This is an
organization of pre-health advisors that meet annually at various geographic locations.
They meet with the deans of the various health schools, they meet with the admissions
people so it’s probably the most valuable information gathering organization that you can
belong to. They help each other if you have questions. I mean now it’s gotten so


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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sophisticated, if I have a question and I don’t see the answer, I can put it on a listserv, and
you’ll get responses from experienced health advisors and such. But the way I got it was
George was Chairman in doing that at that particular point in time, and their meetings
back then used to take place in June and they often were at a college or university campus
because they could use the dorms, the hotels and use the facilities there. So, George had
dilly-dallied. George had never gone to one and all of a sudden, he said well, we really
should be doing this and all of a sudden, like the middle of May, to the last, it was
something like ten days before the meeting was taking place, he throws a letter on my
desk. He says,“You’re now the pre-med advisor, you should go to these.” So that was
my baptism. I arrived in Hershey, Pennsylvania, where the med-school is located,
Hershey Medical School and that’s my first area. I drove to it, it was so late that I
couldn’t even get at the hotel where the group was so I had to be at a hotel down the road
and then drive to the meeting which was not the best way. I always make sure now, I do
my reservations early because a lot of the information you get is informally, chit-chat
around and so forth. So that was my baptism into it. I had gone to those, I’ve actually
presented at those conferences in the past and that’s part of it. The other part of it is an
awful lot of reading. There is a national association now as well so that’s a solicit
information… but a lot of reading, a lot of just...

GN:
Give me a ballpark figure as to how many students you’ve been able to move
through the system now into medical school specifically? Are there ten?

JSB:
Over my whole career?


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
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GN:
Yea.

JSB:
Oh, there’s over one hundred. There are a hundred. A hundred and some over the
years. Our program…

GN:
Is one of the best kept secrets around.

JSB:
Is probably one of the best kept secrets around.

GN:
Yea, yea.

JSB:
And Marist, we don’t… Marist is not going to get the students into Harvard very
often because our name is not… I always remember my first years here when I had the
students who went to the interviews, the first question they ask, “Tell me what a Marist
is?” They didn’t even know what Marist was. I think one of the things that has happened
over the years is that Marist has gotten better known also through the students going on.
We have medical schools now that generally we have a track record with and they take
some of the borderline students in some cases. So, for example, over the last five years,
eleven out of twelve applicants have gotten in. If you look at the other health
professions, twenty-nine out of thirty-one have gotten in over that same period of time.
Some years, we’ll have three, four. The students who go on do very, very well. I once
did an analysis just out of curiosity to see how well they do and one of the things that


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Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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happens after med-school is that you can get what are called honors grades and you’re
put on the honors level. And I think I had one time thirteen out of eighteen students that I
could assure were in the honors level in their medical schools. I have a student right now
who’s number one at his school graduating. I just got an email from one of our young
ladies who’s graduating from Virginia Medical School, which is one of the top medical
schools. She is number eleven out of a class of 175. So, our students generally do very,
very well.

GN:
I was surprised at the number. I didn’t think you had that number.

JSB:
Yea, over my thirty-five, thirty-seven years, definitely over one hundred.

GN:
Okay, let’s come back to the department and you maybe would recognize some of
these names and maybe you could say something more about their participation. Hugh
Turley, George Hooper, Bill Perrotte, you mentioned Bean.

JSB:
Dan Bean.

GN:
Dan Bean, okay. Am I skipping somebody? Is there another significant person? I
hate to say that, but I don’t know.

JSB:
Not that I can, oh, Teresa Snyder was probably the other one that stayed the
longest.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

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GN:
Right, okay. We’ll mention those.

JSB:
Okay.

GN:
What did Bill do?

JSB:
Bill was a botanist here. Bill was an interesting character in many ways.

GN:
Another New Englander? [Laughter]

JSB:
Another New Englander or Vermonter. I think my first getting to know Bill was
kind of interesting because Bill was hired while I was on that leave to work on my
research and I was out collecting data and the secretary came by and Bill actually, you
know Bill would leave a little note even though he hasn’t met you. Bill had been hired
and heard that I was on leave, and I would be one of his colleagues back at Marist
potentially someday. And Bill dropped in, and I was out collecting my data that
particular time and he left a little note, “I am Bill Perrotte. I dropped by, I’m on my way
to Marist.” I think it was as he was moving down here and he just sort of swung his way
from Vermont to New Hampshire on his way here and left a note. So that was my first
and then when I arrived, of course, I got to meet Bill. Bill and I worked together quite
well.



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GN:
He didn’t have his Doctorate either when he first came?

JSB:
When he first came, he didn’t have his Doctorate either, correct. He was getting
his from Vermont. He was in the writing stages. He and I would often be here at night
doing our work in our own offices and sometimes Bill smoked a pipe so Bill would take a
walk and you’re allowed to smoke. You could take a walk and just say you’re going to
take a break so we would take a break together and sort of look up at the stars as Bill
because you know, Bill would take a walk out. And sometimes we’d just take a walk
around campus and come back, “Okay, that was a good fifteen, twenty-minute break” and
then go back to work. So, Bill and I worked as sort of… we were to come at about the
same time. There’s only like a year, year and a half difference in our coming. Hugh
truly came afterwards. My recollections of Hugh are interesting because when Hugh was
at Catholic University, George had communicated with him and he was being hired to
develop Microbiology as a course here and we had been hiring for a number of years.
Bill actually did Microbiology for a period of time, but we had hired people from
Dutchess to teach the course previously. And Hugh was sent this, George had sent to
him, we have to get the orders in once we’re- and George comes down with this to Bill
and I and says, “Look at this guy, he’s in la-la land.” You know he was ordering
sophisticated equipment. We don’t have budgets like that. Again, that’s someone who’s
at a graduate school where they have everything and so we had to pull human to reality.
So Hugh and I, of course, became very good friends because we became racquetball and
tennis buddies together. So, we played both together for a long period of time. I always
consider Hugh one of the losses at Marist. He was a very gifted teacher. I always


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22
remember some of the things that he did when he was here. He did a lab. Hugh liked to
organize things, everything was color-coded, red here and blue there and everything was
labeled. And Hugh, to Hugh and to me, he enjoyed more the setting up and this is what
he said, he enjoyed the developing, the organizing, and so forth much more than he did
the actual presentation in class and that’s what made him decide really to be teaching.
But he was always interesting in that respect because he had to do, sometimes we had to
do things that we weren’t experts in. And he had to do a lab with George Hooper, and it
was a fruit-fly lab in General Bio and the comic one would use in there and he’s got this
vial and the students were saying, “Well, these flies don’t seem to be moving” and he was
saying, “Yea, yea look at that! He just jumped.” Well, Hugh would grab the wrong
groups. I grabbed the “morgue” ones, that’s right they were called the “morgue” ones.
They were all the dead ones. [Laughter] And here he is trying to get this, he pulled it off
faking it for about an hour. Then George comes by, he sees and says “Joseph, where’d
you get those? Those are all the dead ones!” So that’s one of my recollections.

GN:
He was in the development of Marist Brothers now?

JSB:
That’s correct. Yea, I still hear from Hugh. I still hear from him periodically and
he has visited when he comes up for the summer meetings, so he’s dropped by. Often,
we have still done this, Hugh, George, and I get together if he’s in during the summer.
We find a time and we go up to lunch. We’ve gone up to Easy Street or someplace like
that in between. Last time he was too busy to do it, he’s a little more involved.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

23
GN:
Right. Were there any part-time people in Biology in those years?

JSB:
Not really, not really. Not in Bio. We’re not big on part-time in Bio. One of the
reasons is it’s very difficult to find people. One of these stories with that, with George
Hooper too with that, I always remember, I would not get a sabbatical for my first
twenty-two years here at Marist and the main reason was that I was told that you had to
get the Chairman’s approval. And George says, “I know you deserve it but I can’t give it
to you because there’s no one to teach these courses.” I have always had the heaviest
teaching load. I developed eight, nine different courses at Marist in my time here and the
funny one in there with George is we got the Med-tech program at Marist and one of the
requirements there was they required Immunology and Parisitology. And Parisitology is
my field so that was no problem. Immunology was not. When I was in school,
immunology didn’t exist as a field. Immunology usually was integrated partly into
Parisitology, partly into Microbiology but Immunology has emerged as one of the
dominant areas in Biology. So, I always remember George said “Well, you’re the most
likely one to do this.” And so, he said “You’ve got a year to develop this.” So, I during
the summer, was sending to publishers to get books and starting to collect data, things
that I would begin to research. Then all of a sudden, George comes in and says “We need
this in the fall.” So that sped up my beginning at that. And again, one of the things I
always liked about Marist at that particular time as things have changed, usually you
would get credit for scholarship, which was scholarship of preparation, scholarship of
retooling, scholarship of relearning, things that you could do in subject areas. So, I took
several courses in Immunology by going to Chataqua courses and so forth. So, I always


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

24
liked learning, I always liked doing new things so that as George says, that may have
been one of my pitfalls and in a way, you were willing to do these where we would say
we can’t do these, we aren’t willing to do these. But it also may have been that I was the
youngest one at that particular time, not any longer but at that time I was.

GN:
Yes. What about the development of where the labs are now, where they came
from. How do you define or explain that kind of development? More students came into
Biology, there was a more definitive need that could be presented.

JSB:
Well, that’s an interesting point too because one of the things that we… We used to
teach all of the Biology in two labs, two rooms that were all Bio labs and one of the
things that happened there is they were talking about renovation and we were constantly
fighting for space. And Jim Daly was the Admissions person and one of the things that
we used to meet with him, and Dennis finally said you know, I’m not going to do
anything for science because he’s the line that…When you get more students, then I’ll
build more space, or we’ll have a reason to build more space. And we asked for a
meeting with him. We were a school of science at that particular time. And we said, you
know, this is kind of ridiculous. We can tag many different colleges, you have to build
first and then they will come. You can’t wait because you can’t fit them in. So, one of
the things is we felt that we were very critical in the renovation of Donnelly in that we
said we need better facilities if you want us to attract more science students. And Jim
Daly was one of the few times, I think Jim Daly was an advocate of science. Jim Daly
made the comment that they are correct, he says “I can not recruit science students.” As


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

25
a matter of fact, he says I never send them over to even see the facilities” because he says
it’s embarrassing. There are high school kids that are going to come looking at the labs at
Marist and say that many of them have high school labs that are better at that particular
time. So, we get a lot of things with shoestring type situations.

GN:
Yea.

JSB:
I always remember Histology when I developed as a course, I had one complete set
of slides, and I had forty-three students in it. This is where graduate school slows down.
In order to do that, I would run lab sections at night and another afternoon and so forth.
So that was one of the aspects. We often apply for grants to get equipment in science and
that was one of the things that was important to us. And of course, then we got the grant
to develop the Med-tech, Nursing and then there was supposed to be a third component,
which the school then backed out of at that particular point in time. As you know, the
Nursing program went under. I’ve always been disappointed in that because the actual
reason for the Nursing program going under was not…

GN:
Falling on the table.

JSB:
Walking the table, yea. It was a hidden agenda. There were other aspects to it
which was very sad because we would have far more science students at Marist, you
know, Nursing, the wound. And it would have allowed us to expand that furry area and I
said, they funded as the three developmental programs. The third one was to have been


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

26
Physical Therapy and that would have got us an identity. Our argument always was that
that would also help us in getting more students into more prestigious schools because
you get an identity as a science school.

GN:
Another interesting topic for me at least is to hear you talk about the development
of the various committees. You played a part certainly in some of these. Let’s talk about
rank and tenure, upon which you served for eons.

JSB:
Yes, I had three different terms. I always remember that because I replaced
someone for a two-year term and then back then if you didn’t serve three that meant you
get…

GN:
Go back to…

JSB:
Got back on, and so I was going to have five continuous years on it. I found my
only way to do anything against that was that’s when I decided I’m putting in for
promotion.

GN:
To apply.

JSB:
Right.

GN:
I found that a tactic.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

27

JSB:
Right, so that was the best and it was the year I was going to be Chairperson. So it
was perfect, it worked out ideally for me particularly since I got the promotion so that
was an ideal. Yea, I was also involved with the development of the faculty association,
which was an aspect of some of our growing pains, I guess, of looking at the workload
and looking at financial situations and fighting for the fact it is such…

GN:
Yea, well there’s a break in the development of the College. At the beginning,
there’s a kind of unity of administration and faculty and it’s one happy growth. And then
along comes some kind of a divide where there’s an antagonism that seems to develop
between faculty and…

JSB:
Right.

GN:
And I think now, I think, there’s much. That has certainly been resolved in my
view, I don’t know whether in what your…

JSB:
Right, yes.

GN:
But they’re two separate units for sure.

JSB:
Yes. I’ve also served on FAC. I don’t think there’s a committee that I haven’t
served on.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

28

GN:
They wouldn’t know what FAC is, Faculty Affairs…

JSB:
Committee and there was the Academic.

GN:
Academic…

JSB:
Academic Fairs Committee. In actuality, I was on the Executive Committee, but I
was never on FAC. I was on AAC, and I was Chairman of AAC. They’re two different
committees. I…

GN:
You’ve dealt with programs that…

JSB:
That deals with curriculum. I’ve always been more interested in the curricular end
of it, not in the…

GN:
Personnel.

JSB:
Personnel and the priorities and so forth type of thing.

GN:
Okay, thanks. What about your view on the role of the Core program, the change
of the core to well we have the Core now. We used to have a sixty-sixty program. Were
you strong for a change in that area?


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

29

JSB:
I didn’t like the sixty-sixty at all because I think it was a little stifling. It was a
little manipulative in many respects and for science students, it was very, very difficult
because in science quite often, you have to go beyond the sixty. And they would have to
really crunch to try to get some of their courses in. I remember the course development.
I remember the program with Xavier Ryan. I can remember all the battles on the core.
[Laughter] And again, I see the core has changed. We in science have different views
sometimes than… Some of the energies have it all. I mean, you know, the modes, I was
not a big advocate of the modes primarily because I don’t think the modes were all
treated equally and that was my big problem with it. The scientific mode was always
short-tripped was number one. Number two, I had many debates with the way they did it.
I mean, they were giving articles of reading that were 1930’s in Physics, which to me,
was rather archaic and to try to grab anybody and to be perfectly honest, most of the
Philosophy people, they didn’t really know any of the science to be able to do it. The
biggest problem I had was they weren’t willing to give up anything either. They wanted
total control.

GN:
They put it on the table and [rationalized it]…

JSB:
Yea, that’s [rationalized it]. And they really, you know, would deal with the
scientists, even when they dealt with the scientists, they were dealing with… Scientists
are very interesting. They do their research, they do their work and then what happens
is… so that’s usually considered that you’re sort of focusing in very narrow-focusing


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

30
range. Quite often scientists then in their old years become what are called generalists.
They start to reflect and try to tie their things into the big picture. And that leads more to
a philosophical approach to it. So sometimes, I felt that they could have picked better
people to look at than some. But the students used to complain all the time, you know,
where’s this science mode coming in, I’m not getting it. So, most of the people
considered them okay, they’re doing philosophy and I don’t think that’s bad at all, I’m
not against that at all but I don’t want to look at it either. I don’t want to you know,
really…

GN:
That was the period of Xavier Ryan.

JSB:
Yea.

GN:
And the four modes of consciousness…

JSB:
That’s correct, that’s correct.

GN:
And four ways and those things…

JSB:
And the problem I’ve always seen with the philosophy is there was…You know,
when I started, I remember Peg Bermingham was here and so forth and you really saw
the Philosophy department starting to split. Those that wanted to hold on and those who
were saying well, not everybody has to be the same so…


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

31

GN:
Okay, let’s come back to the college in terms of some other developing things now?
Where do you think the college is going for? What’s one of its strongest points now? Is
it location? Is it the grounds?

JSB:
Oh, I think its geographic location and its size are significant factors for people. I
mean the campus is beautiful, there’s no question about that. The campus right now is a
definite draw, I think the clearing with the river and view, if I was to say what Dennis’s
strength would be I think that would be one of them, his visions to the less.

GN:
We’re going to get to that. [Laughter]

JSB:
Okay.

GN:
And how…

JSB:
Its reputation has significantly grown too over the years. I think that’s a significant
factor because I can remember when I first came to Marist everybody was from Long
Island, a little bit from Connecticut.

GN:
Yea.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

32
JSB:
And most of them right the Island and New Jersey a little bit and most of them
were very parochial. You know, I was a public-school educator personally but when I
talked to these kids almost, I had to strain to find someone with a public school
education.

GN:
Yea and now more than half.

JSB:
That’s right, that’s correct.

GN:
Not in New York State.

JSB:
I mean, I see it’s interesting that their range has gotten up to Maine. I don’t know
how they somehow reached up to Maine, but they had a Maine connection for over
fifteen years now. I don’t know how they first established it. It’s a significant one.

GN:
What do you think is a weak point of the college? If you had to go up to the Board
of Trustees and had the opportunity to talk to them in a friendly sort of way, what do you
think you’d say as something that they should be careful of?

JSB:
Well, one of the things is I think they’re starting to stretch it calling Marist a liberal
arts college any longer. If you look at the development and we got this from one of
our…We had off-campus visitors, in others words, these schools are supposed to now
have an outside person and one of things they pointed out is Marist really is trying to


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

33
defend its being liberal arts but to the outside its beginning to look more and more
vocational, in other words, career or professional-oriented. And I kind of agree that
that’s true. The only thing that they’re trying to hold on to make it more liberal arts I
think is the core and I don’t buy it myself but that’s doing it. I would think one of the
greatest weaknesses is, and this is going to be personal, is to consider yourself a liberal
arts college and not have a science building is absolutely insane. You can’t pick a school
in the United States, literally, that of our size, liberal arts. The schools we like to
compare ourselves to, Siena and so forth, I mean, they’re expanding their science
buildings. Vassar, this is my example, and I said if you want to increase your science
students, Vassar when they built their new science building, doubled their enrollment
over that period of time. Siena the same for that. And again, Siena built the science
building, hired five faculty, and they developed the curriculum even though they weren’t
teaching courses very much at that time. Ours just has small boarding students and the
students came so I don’t know what that means. It’s what you want it to mean.

GN:
I read this, and I think we want to see one of your doctor friends maybe [Laughter]
about a contribution to the foundation of this science building. What about the students?
Have you seen a significant change in Marist College students in your forty years here?
Thirty-seven.

JSB:
Yea, the main thing I find is okay, the students as people I have found have stayed
pretty much the same. It’s one of…Okay, I’m going to get… Things overlap. One of the
things I’ve always liked about Marist is this type of student that joins. I’ve had visitors


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

34
that I’m taking on tours. Marist students are just pleasant generally. They greet you.
They say hello. You can walk across campus, people will talk to you, say hi, etcetera,
etcetera. I’ve been at other places, you don’t see that. You walk at New Paltz, a big
campus, no one’s going to say anything or acknowledge. So, I like that. The preparation
of students, I think I still am an advocate that says that all of the students today coming
out of high school, they had higher scores of whatever ways they try to calculate the…I
think that the students in the past, even those that had the lowest scores, were stronger
students because they had greater capability to think. I think the kids coming in our high
schools in this day and age, know a lot of factual knowledge and the hardest thing is to
get them so they can apply that knowledge and think. When I think back to the students I
had in the past, even my first years here, they weren’t the brightest of students but if you
taught them something they could then find links and expand on it. The other thing I
would say is they wrote. They were better at writing things; you know on written exams
they were much better.

GN:
Have you experienced a big difference in the male-female composition?

JSB:
Yes. Of course, I came to Marist when it was all male and I was scared stiff with
that because I had never been in a unisex situation in my whole life so that was strange to
me. I had never been in an environment where you had parochialism. In other words,
when I first came, half the students in my class had cassocks on and sore knees etcetera.
[Laughter]



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

35
GN:
Yea.

JSB:
I always remember my experience there. I came in and back then you had to wear
a shirt, tie, and jacket and I could remember after the first week, I would go in and say
good morning and start my class and all of a sudden one of the student Brothers came
over and talked to me and says, “You’re supposed to be leading us in prayer each day.”
And he said, “Would you like me to do that?” I said fine but no one had explained that to
me. It probably had been assumed. I had never been in a parochial environment. I know
the cross over the door was appropriate, but I didn’t know that because we didn’t do that.
We salute the flag in public school.

GN:
Okay, let’s talk about some of the administrators that you’ve dealt with. Can you
recall Linus Foy?

JSB:
Yes, very fondly.

GN:
What’s your view? I liked Linus a great deal. I was impressed with both Linus and
I’m trying to think of…

JSB:
Ed Cashin?

GN:
Ed Cashin. I was very, very impressed right from the start when I was interviewed.
Their sincerity, their integrity, I always remember because at that particular time, I was


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

36
moving to Marist or was being offered the job and both of them, they’d comment that
“We will try to help you with moving expense. We’ve never done this before.” I
suppose I was the first, I really was going to have this. And I always remember I got my
contract letter, and it didn’t have anything above moving expenses, and I said “Gee” and
my wife happened to be present. Well, she says, “You’ve got nothing to lose, it may
have been that they just forgot.” And that’s exactly what it was. I called and he says,
you know, I apologize. He was so apologetic. Two days later I had an $800 check in the
mail to help with moving, to help defray the moving expenses. Again, they said we’re
new to this, we can help but you know, it’s complicated. So, I hired a truck and moved
myself here. The thing I always remember about both of them is their commitment to the
academic end. Again, I’ve always been most interested in people who are committed
towards the academic end because that’s what we’re all about. And I always remember
both of them with contracts and things, you just negotiated, set a price, you shook hands,
and you didn’t think of anything else. It’s just going to happen, no matter what. And
getting help a second time I moved back, they didn’t’ have to do that. I was coming back
a second time, you know, for the year.

GN:
You had to deal with a number of Deans over the years, vanderHeyden, Artin
Arslanian, LaPietra, Shea maybe or I don’t know who is the first Dean that you had. Oh
Brother Paul, that’s who it was.

JSB:
Brother Paul, yup.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

37
GN:
He was a high school principal really. [Laughter]

JSB:
Yes, yes, right. I always remember Brother Paul because he was scary to me when
I first came to Marist in that he was at the door inspecting as you came in and out of the
building. Even as a faculty member, he had me intimidated like an [ascew] sergeant. Is
my tie on, stuff like that I got it pulled up going into the building and I remember him
stopping students who didn’t have socks on. They couldn’t go to class and back then the
rule was if you missed five classes, it was an automatic F and I, as a faculty member, had
no control over it because each week I had to turn in the attendance so that therefore
people would not be keeping the actual count yourself because you just take it and turn it
in and then that office would, was it Brother John O’Shea?

GN:
Yea.

JSB:
Is that who remembers in that capacity upstairs?

GN:
Right.

JSB:
And the student would get a note and I would get a note that the student has got an
F and you don’t have to bother giving them exams anymore [Laughter] etcetera and it’s
like whoa. So, that was all new to me at that particular time.

GN:
A kind of military academy.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

38

JSB:
Yes, yes. And then there was Ed Waters. I remember dealing with Ed Waters. Ed
was a high school person who I actually got to know through working with Upward
Bound. I was one of the, I’m trying to think…

GN:
Summer instructors.

JSB:
Right. I’m trying to remember the name of the Brother that founded that.

GN:
Murphy.

JSB:
Murphy, yea. And I was on the committee that was working with him to write the
grand consult boards, so I was committed to that sort of thing. So, I got to know a lot of
them in that particular area. I think back then if I were to make an appraisal for most of
them, it was more like you worked with them. I view the newer era of time as they’re
doing their job, you’re doing your job.

GN:
Okay. What do you think Dennis Murray did bring to the College?

JSB:
He brought structural change that was more business-like and less academic-like.
It became more of a situation, to me a least, is that they are like the bosses and the CEOs
in the company and we are more like the workers in the particular departments.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

39
GN:
Very much concerned with image and public relations.

JSB:
Very much concerned, yea. I mean, I can’t say it unless you turn it off. [Laughter]

GN:
Well.

JSB:
But there have been nicknames that have been used for him over the years because
of that, the images, everything type of thing.

GN:
Alright, time is running on Joe, and you’ve been very honest and open and I want
you to stay that way for these next points. [Laughter] What would you say is your
particular contribution? What are you proudest about here? What have you done in your
time that you, I wouldn’t say put on your gravestone. [Laughter] What do you take joy
in?

JSB:
I take joy in serving the students. The students, I have seventy-five advisees right
now. I will not turn down a student. My Dean has tried to get me to realize that…but my
idea is I’ve had students and if they prefer me to be their advisor, then I feel I should try
to be their advisor. For one thing, they feel more comfortable with their pre-health. The
first two years you can tell the students it doesn’t make any difference until the third year
but when someone is with the Physics person, they don’t feel they can ask the Pre-med
question, what if I get this, what if? So, I’ll automatically always sign that. I’d say
service is… Generally, I’ve been told service is my strength. I don’t say no. There are


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

40
people in my department that say I have a flashing neon sign. They walk down the car,
and they say “You gotta do this Joe because I’m the last few” and you’ll say yes, so you
really have to change that. I would say that and probably my curriculum development.
As I say, right now, the Dean is concerned when I retire. There are areas that I teach that
there’s no one else that can take them and the likelihood that you’re going to hire, in this
day in age, one person that will be willing to teach eight areas is not very likely. So, what
the Dean is saying, he’s trying to say is you’re going to have to go too possibly. Why
change the path of what you’re doing? Because there is only one course there that
someone presently on campus could teach once they have time.

GN:
What would you think about this? What did not happen that you wish would’ve
happened in the last twenty years or so?

JSB:
The biggest thing that I would’ve wished that would happen, and again I’ve
alluded to it before and that is a greater commitment towards science, to consider that
science is a part of a liberal arts education, the commitment to building or improving
laboratory situations. Dennis is not very committed to science and that’s clear and it has
been clear for many, many years and we meet with him each year and he says, well I’ll
try to… We meet with him and try to spruce up and we’ll be saying, “Look at what it
looks like.” And so, one of the problems, in particular as far as I’m concerned is with the
switch tube scholarship for sciences, it’s almost impossible because you can’t go
anyplace else where you don’t have separate laboratories. We can’t set up a research
thing in a lab where you’re going to use it for General Bio and the public. How do you


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

41
know it’s not going to be tinkered with when you can’t blame students? So, it’s very
hard hiring faculty, I mean, it took us three years to get a biochemist. They all sort of
joked, you want us to get X number 2 publications per particular period of time?
Where’s the facilities? Where’s the equipment? You know, how do you expect that from
me? And this is your teaching mode. So, I would’ve liked to see, if they were going to
go to this scholarship, and again Marist is trying to make changes and I think one of the
things that I regret is that whenever Marist made a change, they dropped a max. They
never grandfathered anything. So therefore, I feel very strongly that I’m in that old car. I
was used, abused, and burnt as a consequence because like someone says, it’s an old
adage that says in science, for every one year that you’re not in research, you’re falling
five years behind. And so, if you’ve got people that can’t do research, and again in my
early years at Marist, we would discover this from doing research. We were encouraged
to develop a curriculum, to establish that. So as a consequence, I mean, my wife, Marist
is not a favorite word with my wife at all… She, as many wives here.

GN:
Okay. Did you ever think of changing your voice a little? Why did you stay here
for so long? Certainly, your commitment…

JSB:
I had an offer without even applying. You’re going to get into areas that are
[Laughter] uncomfortable with my wife and I for sure. I had an opportunity to go to a
master’s program in Massachusetts where I would be able to do…

GN:
Research.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

42

JSB:
Research and have a load that would allow me to do those things. Lou Zuccarello
once made a comment that I went through an angry period in my career, and I did. My
wife can attest to it. [Laughter] That angry period, I guess it would be like someone
would say is a midlife crisis but it wasn’t quite necessarily that. And what it was I was
becoming frustrated with Marist and was pushing for scholarship and I’m saying I did all
these things and now I’m getting burnt. And I should’ve gone someplace else. I stuck it
out. I love teaching. I love teaching with a passion, and I just love the interaction of
being in the lab. I like the interaction with the students. I’m not teaching a laboratory
this semester in a freshman course because I’ve become Chairman, but the Dean says I’m
in there more than I would be if I was teaching because the areas that I can help out with
got two new faculty in the area. I’m a lab assistant to one of them instead of just an
undergraduate student because it’s to try to help to overcome…

GN:
Yea, all of the issues build up with great repertoire, the bio department particularly
in the running of the labs and that kind of a by definition, going back to Friday afternoon.

JSB:
Right.

GN:
But you guys spend a lot of time with students.

JSB:
Yea.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

43
GN:
Has that been a bonding thing with you at Marist in other words?

JSB:
It was.

GN:
It’s a love hate thing, but you can’t give it up…

JSB:
Right.

GN:
Because you love it so much…

JSB:
Right.

GN:
Even though you hate some of the stuff that’s involved.

JSB:
I mean my love is, as someone says, my wife actually asked me the question. I
was Chairperson for four years. I got out of it; Vicky was doing it and then Vicky was…
Things came up and it was asked if I would be willing to take it back and my wife says
“Are you sure you want to do this because this means you’ll do one course less of
teaching.” And she knows for me to give up anything with the teaching is always
difficult and she said she knew I would still be in here. She’s talked to the people; she
knows I’m in on it anyways.

GN:
Yea.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

44

JSB:
One of the things that we do a lot of in science is come in at night, come in on
weekends, review. One of the reasons I think that they… I still hear from students that
have graduated twenty-five years ago, emails, etcetera.

GN:
They know you’re here.

JSB:
They know I’m still here, right. The key thing is that recall was built up over all
those years. We have our breakfast thing; I’ll get emails of apology for why they can’t
make it.

GN:
I see.

JSB:
And we’ve got an advisory board for our Pre-med which is made up of physicians
and some of them are former graduates. I could not make the first one because it was in
New York, and I had to be at a wedding actually in my family. It was on a Saturday.
There’s one coming up on Tuesday, the one where I was told that I had to make the next
meeting, otherwise they didn’t want the Dean to form that meeting because there was an
opportunity to see. He needs to see some of that. So, I actually have to get my students
because it has to be arranged with so many MD’s that it’s on the tenth in the afternoon
when I teach a lab and I’ve got a small group and the Dean says you must shift, get the
group even if you have to come in on a Friday or a Saturday. And that’s what I’ve done.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

45
GN:
Yea.

JSB:
So I think, to me the repertoire with students is the most important thing. There’s
more learning that happens outside than inside the classroom, you’re lecturing to a large
extent but in the laboratory that’s where the life, the flame goes I guess as far as I’m
concerned.

GN:
Is there anything that I didn’t ask you that you would like to say in terms of this
year?

JSB:
Oh, you’ve made me think about a lot. I can’t think of anything more.

GN:
Okay, well just comment then how about some of your running relationships with
those people you’ve met here. George Hooper is still on your screen I already mailed
you.

JSB:
Yes. I mean, my wife will say that I bonded with George very early on because
my own father died very early in my career at Marist. So, George became sort of…

GN:
Like a father image?

JSB:
Sort of like a father image to a large extent.



Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

46
GN:
Yea.

JSB:
You know, we had ours, just like a son and a father, we’ll disagree on things.
We’ve had our disagreements on things but yea, that bond was sort of like that to a large
extent. George…People like to work with George. As a whole, George was my first
Chairman, then he was my first Dean. It was during the period of time when the school
of science was, not the school, the division of science. We were the first division; we
were the only division. Everybody else was. Interesting history with that too was we
were formed really because we could save money by ordering chemicals for chemistry
and biology together, therefore you get a discount, whereas when we ordered separately.
So that was one of the bonds that would take place so I would think that that would be
one of them. Of course, Hugh Turley had become almost like a brother or a close friend.
We did a lot of athletic activities together. We took our breaks together.

GN:
Do you still play racquetball?

JSB:
I still play racquetball now and then, more tennis now. I’ve sort of run out of
racquetball people but some of the new faculty coming in are starting it up so I bought a
new racket again and played some last year. So, we’ll do it again. Tennis has become
more my… My wife, I played indoors during the wintertime, and she says that I must do
that because that keeps my sanity.


GN:
Right. Okay.


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

47

JSB:
So, I play tennis three nights or two nights and one morning on the weekend.

GN:
Can you whisper when you’re going to retire?

JSB:
It’s getting closer, but I have never had any thoughts of retiring in my whole life. I
basically have made the comment that when I decide I don’t like going into the classroom
anymore, I probably will retire. My wife says that when my pension plan equals what my
salary will be, she’s going to make me retire. [Laughter] So, we’re actually getting
pretty close because my number of years in the pension plan so… But I know I would
stay at least until I’m sixty-five. I’m not sixty-two. At sixty-five, I will have forty years
in at Marist, so I know I’ll do at least that. And my original aim was probably at the
earliest, seventy. That I’ll have to see. There are things that are occurring that I’m not as
happy with anymore so there will be things that…

GN:
Well, you look good. [Laughter] You look enthusiastic.

JSB:
Yea.

GN:
And thank you very much.

JSB:
Thank you.
“END OF INTERVIEW”


Interviewee: Joseph Bettencourt November 15, 2002
Interviewer: Gus Nolan MHP

48