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Part of Irma Casey Oral History
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Irma Casey
IRMA CASEY
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Alyssa Hurlbut
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Irma Casey
Irma Casey
Transcript
–
Irma Casey
Interviewee:
Irma Casey
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview Date:
June 22, 2017
Location:
Marist Archives and Special Collections Reading Room
Topic:
Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Irma Casey
Marist College—
History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Summary:
This interview discuses Casey’s time at Marist College, her teaching career, and her
observations of the school’s evolution.
Irma Casey
GUS NOLAN:
Today is Thursday, the 22
nd
day of June, and we have the great joy of
interviewing Irma Casey, she has been a professor here at Marist for 37 years teaching and
before that involved in various matter and activities. She was married to the famous Dr. Tom
Casey was in residence here teaching here for many years
IRMA CASEY:
1964
GN:
Since 1964
IC:
Oh, 63, excuse me
GN:
63, correction. Irma just an overview, this is for the historical oral collection trying to get an
account of Marist College, its early years, its development, and a projection into the future. And
you have a long experience here and can talk about that with great detail, I’m sure. But before we
get started, I’d like to have a little thumbnail view of your background, your early years, early
education, going to school, etc. What would you say?
IC:
Okay well my education I started with Catholic schools. I’m from Puerto Rico, and I was in
a boarding…during my time, a lot of girls were placed in boarding schools with nuns. And um,
my parents would go once a month...excuse me, every weekend, and then once a month I was
allowed to go home. And obviously in the summer, you go home. But you live there with the
nuns and all the rules and regulations and everything.
GN:
For how long? All through grade school?
IC:
Elementary school until sixth grade. Then 7-12, I went to another...you transfer to another
Catholic school, and this was run by nuns, that half of them came from Michigan, so they were
Americans. And I got weighted there. Then I…
GN:
Where’d you go next?
Irma Casey
IC
: Then I went to the University of Puerto Rico, and I got weighted with a degree in
psychology. And then after that, I came for a master’s degree at Fordham University where I
was…
GN
: Also in psychology?
IC:
In psychology, which now I think psychology is just common sense. Don’t tell psychology’s
that.
GN:
Well a lot of people would think… I thought you would’ve went for Spanish because you
teach Spanish here now.
IC:
Well no, my education in Puerto Rico, we learn Spanish since first grade, all the way, so you
develop your Spanish and you also learn English. Now, we don’t really use English except
occasionally here and there but you learn it in the classroom. So when I came to Fordham, I
came because I was granted a full scholarship by Fordham University.
GN:
I see. To study psychology?
IC:
To study my master’s degree in psychology and that’s where I met Tom.
GN:
Aha, I was gonna bring that up. When did you meet Tom? At Fordham University.
IC:
At Fordham.
GN
: You were both students at the time?
IC:
He was a student doing his masters in philosophy at the time and we had to take a class in a
foreign language that was not your native language, so we were taking French. And that’s
where…we met in the classroom. And um, that’s…
GN:
That’s the background of that. Now, on the side, besides going to school, can you tell me
something more about other interests? Did you have a club, did you belong to the choir, did you
collect stamps, did you do anything like that?
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, um, since elementary school I participated in little plays, that they known to develop.
GN:
Oh, drama?
IC:
Oh, I love acting.
GN:
I could see it.
IC:
I think teachers are actors, that’s how I see it. You know that was one of my interests and
different than other things, you know?
GN:
Right. Besides that did you have any particular other interests, or did you paint at any time?
Or did you…
IC:
All I did was kind of abstract, I love abstract painting. And um, but anyways, the reason I
started teaching was because Maurice Bibeau encouraged me, because Maurice had called me to
teach Spanish several times because they knew me through Tom. And I kept saying no I’m not
interested in teaching, I was never interested in that but Maurice Bibeau encouraged me.
GN:
Where did Maurice Bibeau find you? Were you already in the school?
IC:
He knew me through Tom.
GN:
Oh, oh through Tom, okay. But you were not in education here?
IC:
No. Then, what I did was did courses with Maurice Bibeau to get my certificate to teach and
then I went for a master’s degree over in Albany, SUNY Albany, in bilingual education and
teaching English as a second language, and again, I got a full scholarship.
GN:
You must be very smart to get these scholarships…my god.
IC:
[laughs], I did, I graduated with honors, always. So that’s how I became inter… I got my two
certificates to teach elementary…elementary education in a bilingual school, which I did, in
Beacon.
Irma Casey
GN:
Did you have practice teaching then?
IC:
Yeah that’s what I mean and I was hired one semester before I started at Marist.
GN:
Who supervised you while you were doing some of this practice teaching?
IC:
I….Who hired me?
GN:
No, supervised, visited you in the classroom?
IC:
Oh, Morrie Bibeau…Maurice Bibeau.
GN:
Alright, so he was your contact person, because that’s the next question, how did you find
Marist? Well Tom was working here was that right?
IC:
Yes, and they knew me through the social activities.
GN:
Oh yes, that’s right.
IC:
That was one of the historical aspects that I’m going to be talking about
GN:
Okay, now
IC:
What?
GN:
Before you could come here, you had to have gone through some sort of interview. Did
anybody interview you at the time?
IC:
Yes, your wife.
GN:
Oh no, Elizabeth?
IC:
Liz, and Mor Bibeau, and uh…well, to start with my certificate. At Marist, there was the
comedian, I was hired right away.
GN:
Okay. Well was Don O’Shea the Dean at the time, or was Richard LaPietra in office yet?
IC:
I think it was LaPietra, I’m not sure, because I started full time in 1979. I started part time
from 1977 to the spring of 1979, and then I was hired, okay full time.
Irma Casey
GN:
Okay so from that time on you were on here. Okay when you first started teaching here,
how big a class did you have, did you have five, 15?
IC:
They were usually smaller, 15 no more than 20, sometimes, at the elementary level, they
would be like 21, 22. It was always kind of eliminating foreign languages
GN:
Was Jerry Wise still with us, or had he passed away?
IC:
Oh sure, no, he was still,
GN:
He was still here, okay
IC:
He was still here.
GN:
Soon after we got what they call a language lab, were you here for that?
IC:
Yes, what we did was, at that time, everything was in Donnelly. All the classrooms were
there, all our offices were there. Like my office was in the basement, that’s where foreign
languages was. And um, so we started a language lab, over in Donnelly as well.
GN:
I see.
IC:
I remember taking my classes there, we would take turns to take our classes and they would
be using the microphones and different things…
GN:
And recording, and listening?
IC:
Right, right, but it was not constant, it would be you take one class here, you understand?
GN:
Yeah
IC:
But everybody was in Donnelly, which facilitated the aspect that everybody knew each other
GN:
Alright I’m gonna get to that rewind about how Marist has changed and in a way how has it
stayed the same. Were the students in your day coming here, was it a requirement, did they have
to take a language, or they wanted to study Spanish for the sake of Spanish?
Irma Casey
IC:
Most of them studied it because they wanted to. There were a couple of areas I guess that
may require elementary, maybe or intermediate, but it was not a required type of language.
GN:
And there was no required language in those early years?
IC:
We still don’t have that.
GN:
No I know, I thought it was either gonna be French or Italian or Spanish, I’m confused I, I,
was talking like that…Now the classrooms, do you remember the classrooms in Donnelly?
IC:
Yes
GN:
What was your remembrance of those?
IC:
Well a couple of classrooms were small, others were bigger, but it was wonderful. The
reason again I emphasize, is that, we were all in the same building. And it’s not like it was five
stories high or anything like that. Being round means almost, like family like.
GN:
Sometimes you ate in that building.
IC:
Oh we did, everything was there. Of course the students had the cafeteria over there. But it
was so nice, so familiar and everything…
GN:
I remember a story maybe you can confirm it, that one day or something, it must have been
hot, you took off your ring, and you left it on your desk, and the next day, you looked, the
diamond was gone.
IC:
I couldn’t find it
GN:
And then another teacher comes in the next day, and that teacher, was Tom? That’s a true
story?
IC:
He found it, he found it…it was on the floor in the corner.
GN:
He found it, and it glittered
IC:
It was in his office actually
Irma Casey
GN:
Right, so that was a great find, he went home with great joy that he had found it
IC:
Definitely. I guess it had fallen where the office was. Most of the offices of the teachers were
on the basement of Donnelly.
GN:
Yeah, mine wasn’t though I was with George Summer, and we were up above…Milton
Tysmon, myself, George Summer, I forget who else was in our little cube, we had cubicles… we
didn’t have doors on them, separate areas
IC:
Tom had a small office…the offices were small. I was, foreign languages, we were in one
room like this, and it had little separations. Foreign languages we were there, Tom had his own
little office. If you want me to tell you stories about George Summer, when we were in Fontaine,
GN:
Well, I don’t want to go into George Summer stories now, we might have another day. The
classes then, were ah, I remember though sometimes students would come with some, they took
one or two years of Spanish in high school and then they come here and they want to take
introduction, and Morrie Bibeau said oh no no, you can’t do that.
IC:
Mor went…oh my god, we used to go through…we didn’t have a test, so what we did, we all
got together in the summer, and it took us, maybe the whole month of July, to look at their
applications and we would look at everything that they had taken and that’s how we would place
them, you see?
GN:
Right. If they took two years of Spanish then they would not take…
IC:
Then we would not place them in elementary. But it took us the whole month of July
GN:
They wanted to take it all over again, with guaranteed an A, or a B at least, you know?
IC:
Exactly,
but we had to look at each folder, each student individually, whereas now they take
a test and they’re placed automatically more or less.
Irma Casey
GN:
Alright, um, the beginning years, the great thing about it was there was certain unity, the
other part of it was that it was kind of small, and was it going to be able to survive and we were
going to be able to continue it. But you look at the campus now and you say what a difference.
So the development of Marist is the next question. And so, what I was saying coming here, the
question is how did this happen? And so I have a feel for ideas, like what are the principle factors
that were involved in bringing this great development apart? You’d say, well, the leadership of
Dennis Murray would be one of course, and then of course the Marist tradition, because there
were schools, Marist Brothers were teaching here at the time and they had a tradition, so on. And
then you’d say the proximity, we’re only 70 miles from New York City
,
we’re on the Hudson.
There’s a kind of, everybody could go home on the weekends if they wanted to, Long Island.
Because there was only one island, that was Long Island, and they all lived on Long Island, and
so, anybody going to the Island, they would get a ride. What do you remember of those days?
What would you say was the instrumental thing of this development?
IC:
Well, I think what happened was, for example, Tom was chairman of the faculty, for eight
years, twice, and um he, and there were other prof...like Peter O’Keefe, a few more, they had
been told…the faculty had been told that Marist was going to go into bankruptcy, and um, that’s
when I think all of the faculty started looking, what are we going to do, and they started talking
to members of the board...I remember, they would have meetings.
GN:
Yes, Central Hudson had a man here who was very much in charge.
IC:
Yes, so they started talking to them and saying how can we save? So it was a group, it was
not just one person, it was a group of the faculty and the board and some administrators, they
started to get together and say, what can we do? We need to save, this is a great institution, the
brothers have done great.
Irma Casey
And that’s how they started thinking, that maybe it was time to get a president that could get
something from the outside, like, I don’t know but maybe funding.
GN:
In the beginning it was funding, he would have contacts. See the period, Linus Foy, helped
to build it, he was here for 20 years, and he was very economically based, didn’t want to raise the
tuition, no increase in fees for the labs..
IC: It was great, he did great
GN: He brought this thing and then Paul Ambrose came along, and he was able to get the
charter, well Paul was before Linus but Paul came here and it was a farm. I mean, we had pigs
and cows, we had the trees, we had a cornfield
IC:
I remember a swimming pool around this area
GN:
The swimming pool, that where Lowell Thomas is now, you know, it was actually a
swimming pool. And it was great. But, as you say, there was a need...there was a terrible winter
there
IC:
Something had to happen to keep it going
GN:
And so the whole budget got out of kilt. And so they went looking for a President, and I
think Tom was involve in going to the West Coast?
IC
: Huh?
GN:
To the West Coast right, they went to Cali...go ahead
IC:
Well Tom, being the chairman of the faculty, he went… there were several people who had
applied and Dennis was one of them, so he said well let’s take a look at this, the faculty with the
board you know the people, and so he went to California to look and meet him. He went with
somebody, I’m not sure who it was, two of them went together, he didn’t go alone, no, two of
Irma Casey
them went together, and you know, they finally, when they came back, he said he could be one
of our candidates let’s bring him over. So I don’t know how many candidates they had, but I
know that Dennis was one of them.
GN:
They accepted him and he said, yes, he would come, course he was very young too...
IC:
Actually, he wasn’t even sure from what Tom had told me, that he wanted to come but he
said I’m willing to give it a try, and then, they fell in love with this.
GN:
Right, so that was the coming, that was the leadership thing, of course the other things
happened, one man doesn’t make, no one ever come here to take Dennis’s courses, the school the
faculty had built up a tradition, they had a spirit among themselves, you just talked about that in
terms of Donnelly, cooperative, and so one person I interviewed talked about Marist and she
said, I think I came to three different colleges, depends on when I’m here, one is survival are we
going to be able to make it, you know, so that was the first, and the other was, Dennis is a
dictator, we have to all accommodate… he won’t give us our money. He wants to build walls
rather than to pay us, expand new lawns and buildings and faculty minimal increase and fair, but
you know we’re not going to get rich here in terms of that. And now, people come here just to be
here for a while, and then they fly off to something else you know so there’s that tradition…I’m
talking too much….
IC
: No, no that’s fine
GN:
So I think in terms of…all of those factors I guess would have played, Dennis certainly
increased the board of trustees, he got some rich people on, uh
IC:
Funding, money, everything
GN:
Money, he was able to bring some people to the faculty, for prestige and names and high
written books and so on, do you remember Don Drenan?
Irma Casey
IC:
Oh yes.
GN:
Yes, not very popular with some students sometimes. They would burn his books outside
the dormitory
IC:
[laughs] I have a couple of stories about him
GN:
I don’t wanna go there now either [laughs]. So those were the aspects of it
IC:
Well I think Marist, that closeness, that familiar ambiance that we had at the time, knowing
each other, supporting each other, the bigger you get, the more you’re gonna loose it.
GN:
Oh right now, we’re in separate buildings,
IC:
Well, exactly, I don’t know the people in science, I don’t know the people in…
GN:
Communication Arts,
IC:
No
GN:
Mathematics and Computer, all of those have separate
IC:
Exactly, it’s like…families for example, I’m from Puerto Rico, we’re close together. So you
see each other, you get together. Now here, my son lives in California, I can only talk to him
either on the phone or on the computer, because he lives there, he works there, but I’m here. You
see so that’s what has happened here. We all distanced, split all that, so I don’t know, there are
things you may gain, but there’s things you lose. That closeness, that familial closeness, and
being supportive of each other.
GN:
You don’t know the strengths of the other person, and you don’t know their weaknesses,
you don’t know their accomplishments, and you can’t really, you know, we’re on the same team,
but we don’t exactly are able to work together. We used to have CA classes, you know CA
teaching
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, for example, I’m in Fontaine, so the School of Liberal Arts is there. But we have two
different floors. Most of the time, I know the people that are on my floor but I know them, from
the second floor, we don’t get to see each other, and we’re in the same building. You see?
GN:
Only if you’re on the elevator together going up, but one floor, because then they get off
and you’re going up one more floor.
IC:
One more, I mean so…I guess that’s happening in life now a days too, families are changing,
life is changing but I mean, not always for the better.
GN:
How do you like your office? Are you able to put everything in your office?
IC:
All of my trinkets?
I’ll tell you, yes I did, but uh, the fire people came one time—the
secretary-- one of the secretaries told me she was going with the fire looking at all of the offices
and when they opened my office, everybody was silent, they took a look, and they backed up and
closed the door and didn’t say one word. Now this past year, they came and I was in my office
and with the fire people here at Marist, they said you have to have some of the walls a little bit
clean, so I had to take some things out, but I’m still…
GN:
You’re still showing your different topics. Well it’s learning experience, they’re all in
Spanish which is….
IC:
Well, I am a great believer, language is visual too. It’s not just feelings, it’s not just the
sound, it’s visual. So it’s feelings, visual, you know? But no I still have a lot of trinkets.
GN:
Right. I heard once you were gonna move your office, and then they said oh we’re gonna
change it, you’re gonna move back, you didn’t like that idea. Think that was a trick or
something…
Irma Casey
IC:
No. That’s one thing that, again, when we moved from Donnelly, they moved us, you know
languages, philosophy, English, they move us to Fontaine, you know, the old building that was
here, the old Fontaine…and uh, we still work together caus it was a small building.
GN:
Did you get a U-Haul or something? How did you move?
IC:
(Laughs). Well, I remember moving, it was all by December, and um…. it was until late one
time it what almost midnight and Tom helped me, and some students helped me move.
GN:
Yeah, that was something
IC:
Because being in Donnelly, I didn’t have that much.
GN:
There are two aspects to the next thing, and one is negative one is positive. What were some
of your disappointments in terms of things that did not work out the way they should have, in
terms of courses being approved maybe, or students’ success, or time to do or testing or
requirements for academic thing. Some disapproval…or some disappointments that you had,
were you able to say something?
IC:
Well, listen, some ways, I’m still disappointed in the emphasis that Marist is giving now like
to things that you can show like professional, how much you have published, versus helping the
students
GN
: Print or…publish or perish
IC:
Publish or perish. The emphasis has changed
IC:
Right. Publish or perish. Where the emphasis has changed, and if you devote more to service
maybe, it doesn’t count as much as professional…we call it professional
GN:
Professional development
IC:
Yes, exactly. So that to me is a disappointment, but I mean, I can live with it, I don’t pay that
much attention to it. That and the fact that you have to have a specific number in classes,
Irma Casey
everything is numbers, and uh show. That…you see that disappoints me, versus all the times
when we were more involved.
GN:
Do you still get yearly evaluations, in the class…A chair comes in and sits and sees what
you’re doing and writes up evaluations. I didn’t like to do that as a chair.
IC:
Um, I don’t get it as much, because, you get it more now because we are so big, if you’re
going for a promotion for example, or if you’re going for tenure, you see. But the numbers, that’s
what kills. Where let’s say you may have in terms of service, um, 20 different activities, well
that’s not gonna be enough, or it could be 30 activities, that’s not gonna be enough. I mean it’s
up to whomever, well to the Dean really.
GN:
Do you still get three courses and four courses?
IC:
No I always teach 4/4. Because I am only an assistant. Now the people that have, that are full
professors, and, because then they’re required I guess more publishing, some of them teach only
two per semester. Um, yes.
GN:
I see. Really? Two?
IC:
Or three two, or three four. Oh yes.
GN:
Is summer still an option, you can take a summer course?
IC:
Oh yeah, that’s still optional.
GN:
You can always have that
IC:
Yes.
GN:
Do they still have inter-semester between December and January?
IC:
Yes they still do, I’m not talking about foreign languages, but yeah we still do. Or now we
have a lot of classes in computer. By computer, which I particularly, I just think ok may be good
to have but there is no human interaction.
Irma Casey
GN:
Yeah I want to get back to the future. But what are some of the more rewarding things?
What are you pleased with? You’ve had students that had success, you met, you know you get on
with the interaction… you had some friends, you still talk to Mor Bibeau?
IC:
Oh yes
GN:
So you have friends.
IC:
Let me tell you something I put in my evaluation this year: you never know what you have
accomplished sometimes until years letter. I received a letter this past winter, from a student that
graduated in 1989…
GN:
Really?
IC:
…thanking me for what I had taught her, because she is using it as a professional now. She’s
into social work, and she’s using it. I said what? I couldn’t even remember her name. But I
started looking, and her name is there. You know I still keep all my files, and she’s thanking me,
for what she had learned, that I was instrumental in who she had become. Then another letter
from another student who never thought she wanted to be a teacher, after taking my course, now
she’s a high school teacher in Spanish. Two letters this semester. So you never know.
GN:
Really, that’s something? That’s 25 years, that the one, ’89, that’s uh, 11 and 17 is 28 years
ago that she…
IC:
Oh yeah, I said who the heck is this person 1989
GN:
So she’s an old lady now
IC:
No, no she’s into social work, she’s not a teacher. But she said it was learning how she
could behave in my class, and my interaction with the students, she’s thanking me for it.
GN:
You’re a very human person, that’s the good part of it.
IC:
Yeah, well, I have received letters like that, I still am in touch with some students
Irma Casey
GN:
Alright, next part is look into the crystal ball and say what are you going to see happening?
Will Marist be here?
IC:
Oh definitely. Oh yes, the way it is now? It will be here.
GN:
Will it be uh, changed much? Because of what you just said before, online learning,
students don’t have to come… you have to be here to share don’t you?
IC:
That human interaction, that’s what teaching is.
GN:
Well, you know, uh, to keep it going, we seem to have to have an open, we seem to have to
have an open, we need more diversity, we’re not doing bad now with diversity.
IC:
No I don’t think we’re doing bad at all. It’s not just diversity, you cannot just, with
sometimes I find that in my classes, are we getting student with low grades from high school
because it will bring diversity? I’m sorry, I’m Puerto Rican, I’m not into that. But that’s what
some of us talk about it
GN:
I just have to make sure we’re on time here, ok, plenty of time.
IC:
So um, I think we need quality of students.
GN:
Oh okay, if you’re gonna have a college, you have to have that kind of thing.
IC:
Quality, right. This is not like high school, I know education has changed, but educare, from
the Latin, means to bring forth from the inside.
GN:
They have to educate themselves, and get into
IC:
Exactly, exactly. So it’s not just a show out there.
GN:
Ok, there’s a move of course, among the Marist Brothers now, that those who are gonna
come to train, have to learn a second language. You have to either be advanced in Spanish, or
French, or Chinese, you know whatever, you know. You need to have some more diversity,
because the world is not just one language, you’re gonna be involved…by and large
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, let me tell you, there is a standard joke, what is a trilingual person, a person that
speaks three languages, what is a bilingual person, a person that speaks two languages, what is a
monolingual person, an American. I think Americans believe that…
GN:
They don’t have to do anything
IC:
That the rest of the world…you do it my way or that’s it.
GN:
Then you must be Trump (laughs)
IC:
(Laughs) exactly. This is how I explain it, if you want to do, you are in a company, and you
want to go and mix and do business with China for example, or Japan, and you go there, and you
have the courtesy of at least being able to say hello, nice to meet you, how are you, and follow
some of the cultural traditions, and then you have another one who only speaks English, who
only says my way or no way, from whom are they going to buy? And they’re selling the same
product, okay?
GN:
Yeah, good example
IC:
For example, Obama had gone to Japan, I don’t know if you remembered that and he was
criticized because when he met the Prime Minister of Japan, he bowed. But he was in Japan!
That was courteous, you see? I know English is being used more and more but that’s the beauty
of the human being. That we can all speak…
GN:
Right, the courtesy involved.
IC:
Well, wouldn’t it be boring if we were all the same height, same everything, same color?
That would be boring. So the same thing with languages and culture
GN
: Alright that’s good
Irma Casey
IC:
No I think we should learn, but it’s not emphasized. Not at Marist, anyways. Other
institutions they may do it, I’ve looked into some, but Marist, nothing. Not business they don’t
have to take…
GN:
Right, we used to have a requirement, well, I don’t know
IC:
Social work, excuse me, social work, I go and make presentations every day, they don’t
require even a culture course. What are they going to be
GN:
Yeah, something is missing in the education. I mean even to learn different cooking
IC
: Right, you know. It’s a human courtesy with each other
GN:
Well yeah, so on, music. A lot of things are…
IC:
Everything, everything
GN:
Alright, uh, The Kirk house by the way is going to become the Marist Brothers training
center, they’re gonna put that here now, or so, the Marist Brothers will initiate on the campus
next year.
IC:
Wow nice. That’s…next year?
GN:
Yeah
IC:
Wow that’s great, that’s wonderful.
GN:
And there’s Brother Sean Sammon, who’s on the board, is gonna become the director
IC:
That’s great, to bring it back.
GN:
Yeah, and they’re gonna try to see…and they’re hoping that he will draw a few more older
guys in, not grade school
IC:
No that’s great.
Irma Casey
GN:
Change again. If you had a chance to talk to the board, and say I wanna suggest that we
look into this need that we have, what are some needs that Marist has? It doesn’t have
everything. What could it use, what does it need?
IC:
I think we need more human support in different areas. We need more supports for areas that
might night be as big as other area. Foreign languages, we’re not as big as business, we still need
support. So instead of just supporting the areas that are booming, in a booming way, we need to
support everyone. That was from the Marist Brothers. We need to emphasize that familiar
relationship that we used to have instead of that separation and we need to include more of the
regular people instead of just special.
GN:
Right, special, yeah, PhD, well, accomplished
IC:
A major, in Italian
GN:
Well we have a school in Italy, we have Florence
IC:
Our students go to Australia, they go to Japan, occasionally they go to China, and so we’re
trying to interact with a lot of different countries. You know that four of our foreign language
students have won that scholarship, what is it called?
GN:
Oh right, yeah yeah, oh…it’s very prestigious. And it’s uh yeah…some family in Congress,
senator’s family started it.
IC:
Fulbright. They have four of our students have won Fulbright scholarships.
GN:
They’re all language students?
IC:
Yes.
GN:
Really?
IC:
Yes. Three of them in Spanish and one of them I can’t remember, in French. Four of our
students. Name me any other discipline where four of their majors have won a Fulbright.
Irma Casey
GN:
We used to get one, maybe two. One time a Nolan got it. He was uh…he went to Spain.,
and uh, he was both a computer science I think and a Spanish, code, uh, you know, and he taught
computers in Spanish…and so they, I said what was the key to it, he said it’s all in the essay.
You got to say what you wanted to say. He had refined the essay and he had two pages to put it
down, then they come to see you and they just confirm what they already have made up their
mind about.
IC:
Then we have students that have, so many have gone to masters degree with full scholarship.
I also teach bilingual education and teaching English as a second language, well two of my
students have won scholarships to continue for their graduate degrees and one is a teacher in
college at the University of Chicago Urbana..in Chicago of Illinois or whatever, and that’s the
program that she’s directing and everything, and she’s a full professor.
GN:
Really?
IC:
One of my students, right, and she came to make a presentation here for our students. So
there are possibilities out there. We just need also to emphasize to be more inclusive, instead of
just…
GN:
That should be a special booklet by itself, what you’re saying.
IC:
Right, right, right.
GN:
Alright another point, a Marist graduate now, when he graduates from here, roughly it costs
$15,000 a year to come. Four years, that’s $200,000 you know…is it worth it?
IC:
Oh I think it is. [Laughs].
GN:
Well it’s gonna take a while and they may not get a good job if they’re a Spanish teacher,
they may not get a good job if they’re an English teacher, if they’re computer science they might.
Irma Casey
IC:
They will. But, I think, you cannot just look at what kind of job I’m gonna get immediately.
Your education is going to prepare you for the rest of your life, not to get a job.
GN:
Not to make a living, but to live.
IC:
To live, you said it, you know, so you’re not gonna look at two months later I got this
wonderful job, no, you have to allow it. Your education is to open your mind, to all possibilities
for you out there as a human being. So that’s why, you cannot just judge an education on the
degree that you get.
GN:
Yeah. Well I have a nephew who got an MBA in math and business. Okay, he worked for
uh the uh, ….he got a big job, very well off. He hated it. He went back and got an English
degree. He’s happy as a lock, teaching in Vero Beach in Florida. He’s got an honors program.
And he… they deal with books and stories and poems, he has a delightful life. Whereas the
other, he hated going to work. Now, he loves to see the kids, and it’s a different life you know?
IC:
The purpose of education is not for you to get a job. A lot of people may find jobs in other
areas that they never studied. I’m not talking about medicine you know or anything like that. But
the purpose of a college education is to make you think, to prepare you for what’s out there, all
possibilities. And it’s not going to be just within two weeks or a month, it’s throughout.
GN:
It’s 50 years more than likely. We work now when we’re 70, you know, they’re 20 when
they start, oh I don’t believe that.
IC:
[Laughs]
GN:
I gotta go…no we got time here, for a few more things. So, um, you see the idea is that it’s
money is one thing, but then the time you have to but four years into this, is there another way,
could we use two years to learn how to become an electrician and one a mechanic, car material
or something, whatever, you know
Irma Casey
IC:
You want education to prepare you for a job then go do that. If you want education to be
more than that, to prepare you for life, then do the other. You see?
GN:
Oh okay, I was wondering what you might think about that. Because I’ve had some people
come here talk to me and say, you know Marist is good, but they don’t, some are not ready for
four years of it. Two years might be good, then they should learn how to do something else
IC:
You know why they’re not ready, because even when they come for their interviews, it
seems that some of us, not this lady, emphasize, you’re gonna get a good job when you finish
with Marist. You see, that’s not it. That’s not it.
GN:
Well you won’t get any job at all if you don’t finish.
IC:
I mean, a lot of, I see it with some of my students, where they think, how come you gave me
a B, when I deserve an A. ‘Scuse me, I don’t give grades, you have to work for them. And this is
how you did your job.
GN:
You decide that at the beginning of the course.
IC:
Oh that I do too. I put it in my class outline. Classes begin on the first day. You don’t want
till two months, three months later to say, oh what can I do, can I do extra credit?
IC:
What do you think is gonna happen when you get a job?
GN:
You gotta come everyday
IC:
Exactly, and you have to be prepared and you have to do everything you’re supposed to.
Even when they come, when they come for that um,
GN:
Orientation.
IC:
Orientation, nobody tells them anymore. If they ask me to do it, I do it in my presentation.
Twice, especially one of them when I finish my presentation, a father and a mother came to me
Irma Casey
at the end and said we are so glad that you said that, because our daughter doesn’t believe in it.
GN:
Oh, oh oh
IC:
Doesn’t think that’s the way it is, because I mentioned that
GN:
Yeah it’s social life, have a good time away from home.
IC:
I said ‘scuse me, this is how I start. I said how many hours most people work in a day or in a
week? Let’s say eight? Forty hours a week. You know how many hours you are in class? No
more than 15. What do you do with the other, until you finish, for your job? This is your job.
What are you gonna do. Are you gonna wait, is that what you do when you work? Oh I think I’ll
do it maybe next week or Saturday. Oh don’t worry I have until whenever. No you have to work,
here at Marist, for 40 hours. And this is what I say, okay, I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you 38…35
hours, you can pick up five to be, to be socializing but you still have to do 35.
GN:
Very good, alright
IC:
And that’s when these parents came
GN:
That means read the book, write the paper, whatever it takes
IC:
You they have to work everyday, and this is when these parents came and said we are so
happy you said that.
GN:
You’ve been here for so long. Why are you here for so long…why aren’t you…
IC:
[Laughs]. I always say I love inflicting pain and suffering on young people and I do it very
well
GN:
That’s not true, I will reject that.
IC:
I don’t know, well, not having Tom in my life anymore and you know
GN:
Well everyday you wake up and you say….well, you like to see the students
Irma Casey
IC:
Let me tell you something. Some days I get up and say oh god I have to teach oh god do I
have to. And I come and I’m very down let’s say I don’t want to be here. Then I go down to my
classroom open my door and say huh, love is in bloom again. And you know who made me?
Maurice Bibeau, and Liz.
GN
: Oh you’re very kind.
IC:
No I’m not kidding you, they encouraged me, especially Liz, encouraged me to become a
teacher. I never wanted to be a teacher.
GN:
Well rather that than be a cop. Oh ‘scuse me, I didn’t mean to bring up your son into this.
How’s he’s doing?
IC:
No he’s not in computer.
GN:
Oh he’s in computer?
IC:
No he’s not. He’s a police officer. He, that’s why… I mentioned him sometimes, he never
studied anything to dealing with criminal justice, or sociology, or psych, no, his degree was in
business administration, uh he took philosophy, he went for a masters degree in sports
administration. And guess what? First thing he found a job immediately, he went to visit a friend
in California they gave him a job.
GN:
Well he’s bilingual.
IC:
Well that was another thing. Because he knew Spanish very well. But he never studied
anything like that. So I said don’t close your mind, you see. And Karen, she is at Vassar College
in the Museum of Art. And people…I remember people telling her, my husband said no, you
study what…art, what are you going to be able to do with art? Guess what, she loves it, she’s a
Vassar College. She’s a system register at the museum.
Irma Casey
GN:
Yeah. She’s very helpful I went there once, I was looking for..the Benedictine have this
thing and the main, one of the first foundations and they have.. Vassar College has Benedictine
the person… My Brother is as Benedictine he wanted to come and see it, so we went and saw it.
Okay we’re getting to the end, is there something I didn’t ask you that you’re dying to tell me.
IC:
Well no. I just wanted to tell you how when I started, everything was so familiar and mostly
men. The first three lay professors you know, full time, were Tom, Jerry White, and Bob Lewis
in English. Bob lived outside, but Tom and Jerry lived at Marist. And they were…what do you
call them, in the dormitories?
GN:
Oh yeah, Proctors.
IC:
Proctors. And I just, Tom used to tell at night, they would from 7-9, all the students would
have to be in their rooms with the door open, studying.
GN:
Studying, yeah, No talking, no radio.
IC:
Nothing, studying. And the, uh, Tom and Jerry, whoever was the proctor, they would walk
the halls back and forth to make sure they were studying.
GN: ?
IC:
Nothing, no no no no. The other thing I wanted to say, we used to have a group called the
faculty wives. And I remember, since the Brothers were not married, we would be the one
anytime they had anything social, the faculty wives would be the ones to serve coffee or
whatever, and we would have a brunch [laughs] I remember doing it. So that familiarity…
GN:
Was so precious in those days
IC:
Right, very precious.
GN:
We had a re…what was it, last year, the year before, we did have one reunion. Maybe I
can…few and few though….can’t come I mean they passed on and even Liz has a hard time
Irma Casey
getting around, you know, so, nevertheless, the years are passing. No it’s very nice to have this
chance to talk to you cause you bring the historical past and you’re still with it so you got a view
of Marist in a quarter of a Century and more.
IC:
I do miss that familiarity. I wish we could still have it because I think that also helped build
Marist College.
GN:
It’s the price of growth, though, as you said before, the bigger you get, the further out you
go, like the family
IC:
Eventually though, we have become this, and it’s nice because it’s still functioning and
everything but that familiarity is not there anymore and that was one of the greater things that we
had.
GN:
Yeah, well thank you very much, I’m gonna close this off now.
IC:
And I wonder if we could…well I didn’t mention all the trees and everything but you know
about that. I just wonder if we could have those Archives? Because there’s this teacher who
want…who is from the sciences. You know how they have their burrito on the…
GN:
Bill Parrot? Bill Parrot? He was in biology
IC:
Yeah but it wasn’t Bill Parrot..
GN:
Botany?
IC:
Huh?
GN:
He was...
IC:
I would have to find out...it was this teacher and Tom, maybe was it Bill? I don’t know for
sure but they were the ones that did all the trees and everything. And you know what I did when
they tore…they were gonna kill the Ginco that was there that was over a hundred years old? I
went that spring and I pick up all the seeds, which were smelly, I pick up about 20 or 21, and I
Irma Casey
took them home, put them in water, and they started to…the seedlings. And I brought them to the
burrito. And I know one of them was planted, they told me, by um, by where the McCann Center
is, somewhere there, so that’s from that tree, I did that.
GN:
Oh really? It’s still going?
IC:
I guess so. And some were kept there so that the students could learn, some of the seedlings,
and uh you know in Donnelly. And I give another one to a part time Benediction Nieves… part
time teacher in Spanish, and I have been to her house and the tree is blooming like you wouldn’t
believe.
GN:
Really?
IC:
Mhm.
GN:
Now Tom was from Collinsville Minnesota? Where is he from?
IC:
Tom was from Le Sawyer, you know the Green Giant?
GN
: Yeah
IC:
Le Sawyer, Minnesota. And he was studying to be a Priest.
GN:
At the College of St. John? Benediction?
IC:
No he was at the Oblates of Mary Immaculate. And then he was supposed to.. he and a
friend were supposed to be ordained, he had done his eight years, and they told him and the
friend from the class that they wanted to wait one more year. He had done his solemn vows and
everything, and they told him that they wanted to wait one more year, he and they other guy.
There were about six of them. And Tom said, no, I want to be a priest right now, I’ve been here
eight years already. And they said no, we’re the ones that make the decision, we think you and…
you’re gonna wait one more year. And Tom said no, that’s it, I’m leaving. And uh, when we
were going to get married, we needed the Pope’s dispensation, because he had made his solemn
Irma Casey
vows. So from Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which was in, I can’t remember it was in the middle
of the United States somewhere, I can’t remember.
GN:
Some place in Minnesota.
IC:
No it was not in Minnesota it was in another state.
GN
: Well Dakotas…South Dakota, North Dakota are right next to it, uh Fargo North Dakota is
uh
IC:
Of the Oblates?
GN:
I don’t know where the Oblates are but I know…
IC:
Oh, I forgot I mean I have it at home.
GN:
My brother is in Collinsville, that’s why. I went there for a degree in theology.
IC
: Oh, yeah that was one of Tom’s degrees and philosophy. So he left and he applied to
Fordham and he was accepted right away too, so that’s where I met him.
GN:
When did he come here?
IC:
1963. He started at Fordham in ’61, ’62
GN:
Yeah. But when did he come to Marist?
IC:
’63 he started.
GN:
What happened?
IC:
He was hired right away, he came for an interview. Yeah they were looking for philosophy
teachers, and he was hired right away. But he was still going for, trying to finish his PhD after
the masters. He would drive to New York for that even after we were married. But he started,
yeah, right away.
IRMA CASEY
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Alyssa Hurlbut
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Irma Casey
Irma Casey
Transcript
–
Irma Casey
Interviewee:
Irma Casey
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview Date:
June 22, 2017
Location:
Marist Archives and Special Collections Reading Room
Topic:
Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Irma Casey
Marist College—
History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Summary:
This interview discuses Casey’s time at Marist College, her teaching career, and her
observations of the school’s evolution.
Irma Casey
GUS NOLAN:
Today is Thursday, the 22
nd
day of June, and we have the great joy of
interviewing Irma Casey, she has been a professor here at Marist for 37 years teaching and
before that involved in various matter and activities. She was married to the famous Dr. Tom
Casey was in residence here teaching here for many years
IRMA CASEY:
1964
GN:
Since 1964
IC:
Oh, 63, excuse me
GN:
63, correction. Irma just an overview, this is for the historical oral collection trying to get an
account of Marist College, its early years, its development, and a projection into the future. And
you have a long experience here and can talk about that with great detail, I’m sure. But before we
get started, I’d like to have a little thumbnail view of your background, your early years, early
education, going to school, etc. What would you say?
IC:
Okay well my education I started with Catholic schools. I’m from Puerto Rico, and I was in
a boarding…during my time, a lot of girls were placed in boarding schools with nuns. And um,
my parents would go once a month...excuse me, every weekend, and then once a month I was
allowed to go home. And obviously in the summer, you go home. But you live there with the
nuns and all the rules and regulations and everything.
GN:
For how long? All through grade school?
IC:
Elementary school until sixth grade. Then 7-12, I went to another...you transfer to another
Catholic school, and this was run by nuns, that half of them came from Michigan, so they were
Americans. And I got weighted there. Then I…
GN:
Where’d you go next?
Irma Casey
IC
: Then I went to the University of Puerto Rico, and I got weighted with a degree in
psychology. And then after that, I came for a master’s degree at Fordham University where I
was…
GN
: Also in psychology?
IC:
In psychology, which now I think psychology is just common sense. Don’t tell psychology’s
that.
GN:
Well a lot of people would think… I thought you would’ve went for Spanish because you
teach Spanish here now.
IC:
Well no, my education in Puerto Rico, we learn Spanish since first grade, all the way, so you
develop your Spanish and you also learn English. Now, we don’t really use English except
occasionally here and there but you learn it in the classroom. So when I came to Fordham, I
came because I was granted a full scholarship by Fordham University.
GN:
I see. To study psychology?
IC:
To study my master’s degree in psychology and that’s where I met Tom.
GN:
Aha, I was gonna bring that up. When did you meet Tom? At Fordham University.
IC:
At Fordham.
GN
: You were both students at the time?
IC:
He was a student doing his masters in philosophy at the time and we had to take a class in a
foreign language that was not your native language, so we were taking French. And that’s
where…we met in the classroom. And um, that’s…
GN:
That’s the background of that. Now, on the side, besides going to school, can you tell me
something more about other interests? Did you have a club, did you belong to the choir, did you
collect stamps, did you do anything like that?
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, um, since elementary school I participated in little plays, that they known to develop.
GN:
Oh, drama?
IC:
Oh, I love acting.
GN:
I could see it.
IC:
I think teachers are actors, that’s how I see it. You know that was one of my interests and
different than other things, you know?
GN:
Right. Besides that did you have any particular other interests, or did you paint at any time?
Or did you…
IC:
All I did was kind of abstract, I love abstract painting. And um, but anyways, the reason I
started teaching was because Maurice Bibeau encouraged me, because Maurice had called me to
teach Spanish several times because they knew me through Tom. And I kept saying no I’m not
interested in teaching, I was never interested in that but Maurice Bibeau encouraged me.
GN:
Where did Maurice Bibeau find you? Were you already in the school?
IC:
He knew me through Tom.
GN:
Oh, oh through Tom, okay. But you were not in education here?
IC:
No. Then, what I did was did courses with Maurice Bibeau to get my certificate to teach and
then I went for a master’s degree over in Albany, SUNY Albany, in bilingual education and
teaching English as a second language, and again, I got a full scholarship.
GN:
You must be very smart to get these scholarships…my god.
IC:
[laughs], I did, I graduated with honors, always. So that’s how I became inter… I got my two
certificates to teach elementary…elementary education in a bilingual school, which I did, in
Beacon.
Irma Casey
GN:
Did you have practice teaching then?
IC:
Yeah that’s what I mean and I was hired one semester before I started at Marist.
GN:
Who supervised you while you were doing some of this practice teaching?
IC:
I….Who hired me?
GN:
No, supervised, visited you in the classroom?
IC:
Oh, Morrie Bibeau…Maurice Bibeau.
GN:
Alright, so he was your contact person, because that’s the next question, how did you find
Marist? Well Tom was working here was that right?
IC:
Yes, and they knew me through the social activities.
GN:
Oh yes, that’s right.
IC:
That was one of the historical aspects that I’m going to be talking about
GN:
Okay, now
IC:
What?
GN:
Before you could come here, you had to have gone through some sort of interview. Did
anybody interview you at the time?
IC:
Yes, your wife.
GN:
Oh no, Elizabeth?
IC:
Liz, and Mor Bibeau, and uh…well, to start with my certificate. At Marist, there was the
comedian, I was hired right away.
GN:
Okay. Well was Don O’Shea the Dean at the time, or was Richard LaPietra in office yet?
IC:
I think it was LaPietra, I’m not sure, because I started full time in 1979. I started part time
from 1977 to the spring of 1979, and then I was hired, okay full time.
Irma Casey
GN:
Okay so from that time on you were on here. Okay when you first started teaching here,
how big a class did you have, did you have five, 15?
IC:
They were usually smaller, 15 no more than 20, sometimes, at the elementary level, they
would be like 21, 22. It was always kind of eliminating foreign languages
GN:
Was Jerry Wise still with us, or had he passed away?
IC:
Oh sure, no, he was still,
GN:
He was still here, okay
IC:
He was still here.
GN:
Soon after we got what they call a language lab, were you here for that?
IC:
Yes, what we did was, at that time, everything was in Donnelly. All the classrooms were
there, all our offices were there. Like my office was in the basement, that’s where foreign
languages was. And um, so we started a language lab, over in Donnelly as well.
GN:
I see.
IC:
I remember taking my classes there, we would take turns to take our classes and they would
be using the microphones and different things…
GN:
And recording, and listening?
IC:
Right, right, but it was not constant, it would be you take one class here, you understand?
GN:
Yeah
IC:
But everybody was in Donnelly, which facilitated the aspect that everybody knew each other
GN:
Alright I’m gonna get to that rewind about how Marist has changed and in a way how has it
stayed the same. Were the students in your day coming here, was it a requirement, did they have
to take a language, or they wanted to study Spanish for the sake of Spanish?
Irma Casey
IC:
Most of them studied it because they wanted to. There were a couple of areas I guess that
may require elementary, maybe or intermediate, but it was not a required type of language.
GN:
And there was no required language in those early years?
IC:
We still don’t have that.
GN:
No I know, I thought it was either gonna be French or Italian or Spanish, I’m confused I, I,
was talking like that…Now the classrooms, do you remember the classrooms in Donnelly?
IC:
Yes
GN:
What was your remembrance of those?
IC:
Well a couple of classrooms were small, others were bigger, but it was wonderful. The
reason again I emphasize, is that, we were all in the same building. And it’s not like it was five
stories high or anything like that. Being round means almost, like family like.
GN:
Sometimes you ate in that building.
IC:
Oh we did, everything was there. Of course the students had the cafeteria over there. But it
was so nice, so familiar and everything…
GN:
I remember a story maybe you can confirm it, that one day or something, it must have been
hot, you took off your ring, and you left it on your desk, and the next day, you looked, the
diamond was gone.
IC:
I couldn’t find it
GN:
And then another teacher comes in the next day, and that teacher, was Tom? That’s a true
story?
IC:
He found it, he found it…it was on the floor in the corner.
GN:
He found it, and it glittered
IC:
It was in his office actually
Irma Casey
GN:
Right, so that was a great find, he went home with great joy that he had found it
IC:
Definitely. I guess it had fallen where the office was. Most of the offices of the teachers were
on the basement of Donnelly.
GN:
Yeah, mine wasn’t though I was with George Summer, and we were up above…Milton
Tysmon, myself, George Summer, I forget who else was in our little cube, we had cubicles… we
didn’t have doors on them, separate areas
IC:
Tom had a small office…the offices were small. I was, foreign languages, we were in one
room like this, and it had little separations. Foreign languages we were there, Tom had his own
little office. If you want me to tell you stories about George Summer, when we were in Fontaine,
GN:
Well, I don’t want to go into George Summer stories now, we might have another day. The
classes then, were ah, I remember though sometimes students would come with some, they took
one or two years of Spanish in high school and then they come here and they want to take
introduction, and Morrie Bibeau said oh no no, you can’t do that.
IC:
Mor went…oh my god, we used to go through…we didn’t have a test, so what we did, we all
got together in the summer, and it took us, maybe the whole month of July, to look at their
applications and we would look at everything that they had taken and that’s how we would place
them, you see?
GN:
Right. If they took two years of Spanish then they would not take…
IC:
Then we would not place them in elementary. But it took us the whole month of July
GN:
They wanted to take it all over again, with guaranteed an A, or a B at least, you know?
IC:
Exactly,
but we had to look at each folder, each student individually, whereas now they take
a test and they’re placed automatically more or less.
Irma Casey
GN:
Alright, um, the beginning years, the great thing about it was there was certain unity, the
other part of it was that it was kind of small, and was it going to be able to survive and we were
going to be able to continue it. But you look at the campus now and you say what a difference.
So the development of Marist is the next question. And so, what I was saying coming here, the
question is how did this happen? And so I have a feel for ideas, like what are the principle factors
that were involved in bringing this great development apart? You’d say, well, the leadership of
Dennis Murray would be one of course, and then of course the Marist tradition, because there
were schools, Marist Brothers were teaching here at the time and they had a tradition, so on. And
then you’d say the proximity, we’re only 70 miles from New York City
,
we’re on the Hudson.
There’s a kind of, everybody could go home on the weekends if they wanted to, Long Island.
Because there was only one island, that was Long Island, and they all lived on Long Island, and
so, anybody going to the Island, they would get a ride. What do you remember of those days?
What would you say was the instrumental thing of this development?
IC:
Well, I think what happened was, for example, Tom was chairman of the faculty, for eight
years, twice, and um he, and there were other prof...like Peter O’Keefe, a few more, they had
been told…the faculty had been told that Marist was going to go into bankruptcy, and um, that’s
when I think all of the faculty started looking, what are we going to do, and they started talking
to members of the board...I remember, they would have meetings.
GN:
Yes, Central Hudson had a man here who was very much in charge.
IC:
Yes, so they started talking to them and saying how can we save? So it was a group, it was
not just one person, it was a group of the faculty and the board and some administrators, they
started to get together and say, what can we do? We need to save, this is a great institution, the
brothers have done great.
Irma Casey
And that’s how they started thinking, that maybe it was time to get a president that could get
something from the outside, like, I don’t know but maybe funding.
GN:
In the beginning it was funding, he would have contacts. See the period, Linus Foy, helped
to build it, he was here for 20 years, and he was very economically based, didn’t want to raise the
tuition, no increase in fees for the labs..
IC: It was great, he did great
GN: He brought this thing and then Paul Ambrose came along, and he was able to get the
charter, well Paul was before Linus but Paul came here and it was a farm. I mean, we had pigs
and cows, we had the trees, we had a cornfield
IC:
I remember a swimming pool around this area
GN:
The swimming pool, that where Lowell Thomas is now, you know, it was actually a
swimming pool. And it was great. But, as you say, there was a need...there was a terrible winter
there
IC:
Something had to happen to keep it going
GN:
And so the whole budget got out of kilt. And so they went looking for a President, and I
think Tom was involve in going to the West Coast?
IC
: Huh?
GN:
To the West Coast right, they went to Cali...go ahead
IC:
Well Tom, being the chairman of the faculty, he went… there were several people who had
applied and Dennis was one of them, so he said well let’s take a look at this, the faculty with the
board you know the people, and so he went to California to look and meet him. He went with
somebody, I’m not sure who it was, two of them went together, he didn’t go alone, no, two of
Irma Casey
them went together, and you know, they finally, when they came back, he said he could be one
of our candidates let’s bring him over. So I don’t know how many candidates they had, but I
know that Dennis was one of them.
GN:
They accepted him and he said, yes, he would come, course he was very young too...
IC:
Actually, he wasn’t even sure from what Tom had told me, that he wanted to come but he
said I’m willing to give it a try, and then, they fell in love with this.
GN:
Right, so that was the coming, that was the leadership thing, of course the other things
happened, one man doesn’t make, no one ever come here to take Dennis’s courses, the school the
faculty had built up a tradition, they had a spirit among themselves, you just talked about that in
terms of Donnelly, cooperative, and so one person I interviewed talked about Marist and she
said, I think I came to three different colleges, depends on when I’m here, one is survival are we
going to be able to make it, you know, so that was the first, and the other was, Dennis is a
dictator, we have to all accommodate… he won’t give us our money. He wants to build walls
rather than to pay us, expand new lawns and buildings and faculty minimal increase and fair, but
you know we’re not going to get rich here in terms of that. And now, people come here just to be
here for a while, and then they fly off to something else you know so there’s that tradition…I’m
talking too much….
IC
: No, no that’s fine
GN:
So I think in terms of…all of those factors I guess would have played, Dennis certainly
increased the board of trustees, he got some rich people on, uh
IC:
Funding, money, everything
GN:
Money, he was able to bring some people to the faculty, for prestige and names and high
written books and so on, do you remember Don Drenan?
Irma Casey
IC:
Oh yes.
GN:
Yes, not very popular with some students sometimes. They would burn his books outside
the dormitory
IC:
[laughs] I have a couple of stories about him
GN:
I don’t wanna go there now either [laughs]. So those were the aspects of it
IC:
Well I think Marist, that closeness, that familiar ambiance that we had at the time, knowing
each other, supporting each other, the bigger you get, the more you’re gonna loose it.
GN:
Oh right now, we’re in separate buildings,
IC:
Well, exactly, I don’t know the people in science, I don’t know the people in…
GN:
Communication Arts,
IC:
No
GN:
Mathematics and Computer, all of those have separate
IC:
Exactly, it’s like…families for example, I’m from Puerto Rico, we’re close together. So you
see each other, you get together. Now here, my son lives in California, I can only talk to him
either on the phone or on the computer, because he lives there, he works there, but I’m here. You
see so that’s what has happened here. We all distanced, split all that, so I don’t know, there are
things you may gain, but there’s things you lose. That closeness, that familial closeness, and
being supportive of each other.
GN:
You don’t know the strengths of the other person, and you don’t know their weaknesses,
you don’t know their accomplishments, and you can’t really, you know, we’re on the same team,
but we don’t exactly are able to work together. We used to have CA classes, you know CA
teaching
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, for example, I’m in Fontaine, so the School of Liberal Arts is there. But we have two
different floors. Most of the time, I know the people that are on my floor but I know them, from
the second floor, we don’t get to see each other, and we’re in the same building. You see?
GN:
Only if you’re on the elevator together going up, but one floor, because then they get off
and you’re going up one more floor.
IC:
One more, I mean so…I guess that’s happening in life now a days too, families are changing,
life is changing but I mean, not always for the better.
GN:
How do you like your office? Are you able to put everything in your office?
IC:
All of my trinkets?
I’ll tell you, yes I did, but uh, the fire people came one time—the
secretary-- one of the secretaries told me she was going with the fire looking at all of the offices
and when they opened my office, everybody was silent, they took a look, and they backed up and
closed the door and didn’t say one word. Now this past year, they came and I was in my office
and with the fire people here at Marist, they said you have to have some of the walls a little bit
clean, so I had to take some things out, but I’m still…
GN:
You’re still showing your different topics. Well it’s learning experience, they’re all in
Spanish which is….
IC:
Well, I am a great believer, language is visual too. It’s not just feelings, it’s not just the
sound, it’s visual. So it’s feelings, visual, you know? But no I still have a lot of trinkets.
GN:
Right. I heard once you were gonna move your office, and then they said oh we’re gonna
change it, you’re gonna move back, you didn’t like that idea. Think that was a trick or
something…
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IC:
No. That’s one thing that, again, when we moved from Donnelly, they moved us, you know
languages, philosophy, English, they move us to Fontaine, you know, the old building that was
here, the old Fontaine…and uh, we still work together caus it was a small building.
GN:
Did you get a U-Haul or something? How did you move?
IC:
(Laughs). Well, I remember moving, it was all by December, and um…. it was until late one
time it what almost midnight and Tom helped me, and some students helped me move.
GN:
Yeah, that was something
IC:
Because being in Donnelly, I didn’t have that much.
GN:
There are two aspects to the next thing, and one is negative one is positive. What were some
of your disappointments in terms of things that did not work out the way they should have, in
terms of courses being approved maybe, or students’ success, or time to do or testing or
requirements for academic thing. Some disapproval…or some disappointments that you had,
were you able to say something?
IC:
Well, listen, some ways, I’m still disappointed in the emphasis that Marist is giving now like
to things that you can show like professional, how much you have published, versus helping the
students
GN
: Print or…publish or perish
IC:
Publish or perish. The emphasis has changed
IC:
Right. Publish or perish. Where the emphasis has changed, and if you devote more to service
maybe, it doesn’t count as much as professional…we call it professional
GN:
Professional development
IC:
Yes, exactly. So that to me is a disappointment, but I mean, I can live with it, I don’t pay that
much attention to it. That and the fact that you have to have a specific number in classes,
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everything is numbers, and uh show. That…you see that disappoints me, versus all the times
when we were more involved.
GN:
Do you still get yearly evaluations, in the class…A chair comes in and sits and sees what
you’re doing and writes up evaluations. I didn’t like to do that as a chair.
IC:
Um, I don’t get it as much, because, you get it more now because we are so big, if you’re
going for a promotion for example, or if you’re going for tenure, you see. But the numbers, that’s
what kills. Where let’s say you may have in terms of service, um, 20 different activities, well
that’s not gonna be enough, or it could be 30 activities, that’s not gonna be enough. I mean it’s
up to whomever, well to the Dean really.
GN:
Do you still get three courses and four courses?
IC:
No I always teach 4/4. Because I am only an assistant. Now the people that have, that are full
professors, and, because then they’re required I guess more publishing, some of them teach only
two per semester. Um, yes.
GN:
I see. Really? Two?
IC:
Or three two, or three four. Oh yes.
GN:
Is summer still an option, you can take a summer course?
IC:
Oh yeah, that’s still optional.
GN:
You can always have that
IC:
Yes.
GN:
Do they still have inter-semester between December and January?
IC:
Yes they still do, I’m not talking about foreign languages, but yeah we still do. Or now we
have a lot of classes in computer. By computer, which I particularly, I just think ok may be good
to have but there is no human interaction.
Irma Casey
GN:
Yeah I want to get back to the future. But what are some of the more rewarding things?
What are you pleased with? You’ve had students that had success, you met, you know you get on
with the interaction… you had some friends, you still talk to Mor Bibeau?
IC:
Oh yes
GN:
So you have friends.
IC:
Let me tell you something I put in my evaluation this year: you never know what you have
accomplished sometimes until years letter. I received a letter this past winter, from a student that
graduated in 1989…
GN:
Really?
IC:
…thanking me for what I had taught her, because she is using it as a professional now. She’s
into social work, and she’s using it. I said what? I couldn’t even remember her name. But I
started looking, and her name is there. You know I still keep all my files, and she’s thanking me,
for what she had learned, that I was instrumental in who she had become. Then another letter
from another student who never thought she wanted to be a teacher, after taking my course, now
she’s a high school teacher in Spanish. Two letters this semester. So you never know.
GN:
Really, that’s something? That’s 25 years, that the one, ’89, that’s uh, 11 and 17 is 28 years
ago that she…
IC:
Oh yeah, I said who the heck is this person 1989
GN:
So she’s an old lady now
IC:
No, no she’s into social work, she’s not a teacher. But she said it was learning how she
could behave in my class, and my interaction with the students, she’s thanking me for it.
GN:
You’re a very human person, that’s the good part of it.
IC:
Yeah, well, I have received letters like that, I still am in touch with some students
Irma Casey
GN:
Alright, next part is look into the crystal ball and say what are you going to see happening?
Will Marist be here?
IC:
Oh definitely. Oh yes, the way it is now? It will be here.
GN:
Will it be uh, changed much? Because of what you just said before, online learning,
students don’t have to come… you have to be here to share don’t you?
IC:
That human interaction, that’s what teaching is.
GN:
Well, you know, uh, to keep it going, we seem to have to have an open, we seem to have to
have an open, we need more diversity, we’re not doing bad now with diversity.
IC:
No I don’t think we’re doing bad at all. It’s not just diversity, you cannot just, with
sometimes I find that in my classes, are we getting student with low grades from high school
because it will bring diversity? I’m sorry, I’m Puerto Rican, I’m not into that. But that’s what
some of us talk about it
GN:
I just have to make sure we’re on time here, ok, plenty of time.
IC:
So um, I think we need quality of students.
GN:
Oh okay, if you’re gonna have a college, you have to have that kind of thing.
IC:
Quality, right. This is not like high school, I know education has changed, but educare, from
the Latin, means to bring forth from the inside.
GN:
They have to educate themselves, and get into
IC:
Exactly, exactly. So it’s not just a show out there.
GN:
Ok, there’s a move of course, among the Marist Brothers now, that those who are gonna
come to train, have to learn a second language. You have to either be advanced in Spanish, or
French, or Chinese, you know whatever, you know. You need to have some more diversity,
because the world is not just one language, you’re gonna be involved…by and large
Irma Casey
IC:
Well, let me tell you, there is a standard joke, what is a trilingual person, a person that
speaks three languages, what is a bilingual person, a person that speaks two languages, what is a
monolingual person, an American. I think Americans believe that…
GN:
They don’t have to do anything
IC:
That the rest of the world…you do it my way or that’s it.
GN:
Then you must be Trump (laughs)
IC:
(Laughs) exactly. This is how I explain it, if you want to do, you are in a company, and you
want to go and mix and do business with China for example, or Japan, and you go there, and you
have the courtesy of at least being able to say hello, nice to meet you, how are you, and follow
some of the cultural traditions, and then you have another one who only speaks English, who
only says my way or no way, from whom are they going to buy? And they’re selling the same
product, okay?
GN:
Yeah, good example
IC:
For example, Obama had gone to Japan, I don’t know if you remembered that and he was
criticized because when he met the Prime Minister of Japan, he bowed. But he was in Japan!
That was courteous, you see? I know English is being used more and more but that’s the beauty
of the human being. That we can all speak…
GN:
Right, the courtesy involved.
IC:
Well, wouldn’t it be boring if we were all the same height, same everything, same color?
That would be boring. So the same thing with languages and culture
GN
: Alright that’s good
Irma Casey
IC:
No I think we should learn, but it’s not emphasized. Not at Marist, anyways. Other
institutions they may do it, I’ve looked into some, but Marist, nothing. Not business they don’t
have to take…
GN:
Right, we used to have a requirement, well, I don’t know
IC:
Social work, excuse me, social work, I go and make presentations every day, they don’t
require even a culture course. What are they going to be
GN:
Yeah, something is missing in the education. I mean even to learn different cooking
IC
: Right, you know. It’s a human courtesy with each other
GN:
Well yeah, so on, music. A lot of things are…
IC:
Everything, everything
GN:
Alright, uh, The Kirk house by the way is going to become the Marist Brothers training
center, they’re gonna put that here now, or so, the Marist Brothers will initiate on the campus
next year.
IC:
Wow nice. That’s…next year?
GN:
Yeah
IC:
Wow that’s great, that’s wonderful.
GN:
And there’s Brother Sean Sammon, who’s on the board, is gonna become the director
IC:
That’s great, to bring it back.
GN:
Yeah, and they’re gonna try to see…and they’re hoping that he will draw a few more older
guys in, not grade school
IC:
No that’s great.
Irma Casey
GN:
Change again. If you had a chance to talk to the board, and say I wanna suggest that we
look into this need that we have, what are some needs that Marist has? It doesn’t have
everything. What could it use, what does it need?
IC:
I think we need more human support in different areas. We need more supports for areas that
might night be as big as other area. Foreign languages, we’re not as big as business, we still need
support. So instead of just supporting the areas that are booming, in a booming way, we need to
support everyone. That was from the Marist Brothers. We need to emphasize that familiar
relationship that we used to have instead of that separation and we need to include more of the
regular people instead of just special.
GN:
Right, special, yeah, PhD, well, accomplished
IC:
A major, in Italian
GN:
Well we have a school in Italy, we have Florence
IC:
Our students go to Australia, they go to Japan, occasionally they go to China, and so we’re
trying to interact with a lot of different countries. You know that four of our foreign language
students have won that scholarship, what is it called?
GN:
Oh right, yeah yeah, oh…it’s very prestigious. And it’s uh yeah…some family in Congress,
senator’s family started it.
IC:
Fulbright. They have four of our students have won Fulbright scholarships.
GN:
They’re all language students?
IC:
Yes.
GN:
Really?
IC:
Yes. Three of them in Spanish and one of them I can’t remember, in French. Four of our
students. Name me any other discipline where four of their majors have won a Fulbright.
Irma Casey
GN:
We used to get one, maybe two. One time a Nolan got it. He was uh…he went to Spain.,
and uh, he was both a computer science I think and a Spanish, code, uh, you know, and he taught
computers in Spanish…and so they, I said what was the key to it, he said it’s all in the essay.
You got to say what you wanted to say. He had refined the essay and he had two pages to put it
down, then they come to see you and they just confirm what they already have made up their
mind about.
IC:
Then we have students that have, so many have gone to masters degree with full scholarship.
I also teach bilingual education and teaching English as a second language, well two of my
students have won scholarships to continue for their graduate degrees and one is a teacher in
college at the University of Chicago Urbana..in Chicago of Illinois or whatever, and that’s the
program that she’s directing and everything, and she’s a full professor.
GN:
Really?
IC:
One of my students, right, and she came to make a presentation here for our students. So
there are possibilities out there. We just need also to emphasize to be more inclusive, instead of
just…
GN:
That should be a special booklet by itself, what you’re saying.
IC:
Right, right, right.
GN:
Alright another point, a Marist graduate now, when he graduates from here, roughly it costs
$15,000 a year to come. Four years, that’s $200,000 you know…is it worth it?
IC:
Oh I think it is. [Laughs].
GN:
Well it’s gonna take a while and they may not get a good job if they’re a Spanish teacher,
they may not get a good job if they’re an English teacher, if they’re computer science they might.
Irma Casey
IC:
They will. But, I think, you cannot just look at what kind of job I’m gonna get immediately.
Your education is going to prepare you for the rest of your life, not to get a job.
GN:
Not to make a living, but to live.
IC:
To live, you said it, you know, so you’re not gonna look at two months later I got this
wonderful job, no, you have to allow it. Your education is to open your mind, to all possibilities
for you out there as a human being. So that’s why, you cannot just judge an education on the
degree that you get.
GN:
Yeah. Well I have a nephew who got an MBA in math and business. Okay, he worked for
uh the uh, ….he got a big job, very well off. He hated it. He went back and got an English
degree. He’s happy as a lock, teaching in Vero Beach in Florida. He’s got an honors program.
And he… they deal with books and stories and poems, he has a delightful life. Whereas the
other, he hated going to work. Now, he loves to see the kids, and it’s a different life you know?
IC:
The purpose of education is not for you to get a job. A lot of people may find jobs in other
areas that they never studied. I’m not talking about medicine you know or anything like that. But
the purpose of a college education is to make you think, to prepare you for what’s out there, all
possibilities. And it’s not going to be just within two weeks or a month, it’s throughout.
GN:
It’s 50 years more than likely. We work now when we’re 70, you know, they’re 20 when
they start, oh I don’t believe that.
IC:
[Laughs]
GN:
I gotta go…no we got time here, for a few more things. So, um, you see the idea is that it’s
money is one thing, but then the time you have to but four years into this, is there another way,
could we use two years to learn how to become an electrician and one a mechanic, car material
or something, whatever, you know
Irma Casey
IC:
You want education to prepare you for a job then go do that. If you want education to be
more than that, to prepare you for life, then do the other. You see?
GN:
Oh okay, I was wondering what you might think about that. Because I’ve had some people
come here talk to me and say, you know Marist is good, but they don’t, some are not ready for
four years of it. Two years might be good, then they should learn how to do something else
IC:
You know why they’re not ready, because even when they come for their interviews, it
seems that some of us, not this lady, emphasize, you’re gonna get a good job when you finish
with Marist. You see, that’s not it. That’s not it.
GN:
Well you won’t get any job at all if you don’t finish.
IC:
I mean, a lot of, I see it with some of my students, where they think, how come you gave me
a B, when I deserve an A. ‘Scuse me, I don’t give grades, you have to work for them. And this is
how you did your job.
GN:
You decide that at the beginning of the course.
IC:
Oh that I do too. I put it in my class outline. Classes begin on the first day. You don’t want
till two months, three months later to say, oh what can I do, can I do extra credit?
IC:
What do you think is gonna happen when you get a job?
GN:
You gotta come everyday
IC:
Exactly, and you have to be prepared and you have to do everything you’re supposed to.
Even when they come, when they come for that um,
GN:
Orientation.
IC:
Orientation, nobody tells them anymore. If they ask me to do it, I do it in my presentation.
Twice, especially one of them when I finish my presentation, a father and a mother came to me
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at the end and said we are so glad that you said that, because our daughter doesn’t believe in it.
GN:
Oh, oh oh
IC:
Doesn’t think that’s the way it is, because I mentioned that
GN:
Yeah it’s social life, have a good time away from home.
IC:
I said ‘scuse me, this is how I start. I said how many hours most people work in a day or in a
week? Let’s say eight? Forty hours a week. You know how many hours you are in class? No
more than 15. What do you do with the other, until you finish, for your job? This is your job.
What are you gonna do. Are you gonna wait, is that what you do when you work? Oh I think I’ll
do it maybe next week or Saturday. Oh don’t worry I have until whenever. No you have to work,
here at Marist, for 40 hours. And this is what I say, okay, I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you 38…35
hours, you can pick up five to be, to be socializing but you still have to do 35.
GN:
Very good, alright
IC:
And that’s when these parents came
GN:
That means read the book, write the paper, whatever it takes
IC:
You they have to work everyday, and this is when these parents came and said we are so
happy you said that.
GN:
You’ve been here for so long. Why are you here for so long…why aren’t you…
IC:
[Laughs]. I always say I love inflicting pain and suffering on young people and I do it very
well
GN:
That’s not true, I will reject that.
IC:
I don’t know, well, not having Tom in my life anymore and you know
GN:
Well everyday you wake up and you say….well, you like to see the students
Irma Casey
IC:
Let me tell you something. Some days I get up and say oh god I have to teach oh god do I
have to. And I come and I’m very down let’s say I don’t want to be here. Then I go down to my
classroom open my door and say huh, love is in bloom again. And you know who made me?
Maurice Bibeau, and Liz.
GN
: Oh you’re very kind.
IC:
No I’m not kidding you, they encouraged me, especially Liz, encouraged me to become a
teacher. I never wanted to be a teacher.
GN:
Well rather that than be a cop. Oh ‘scuse me, I didn’t mean to bring up your son into this.
How’s he’s doing?
IC:
No he’s not in computer.
GN:
Oh he’s in computer?
IC:
No he’s not. He’s a police officer. He, that’s why… I mentioned him sometimes, he never
studied anything to dealing with criminal justice, or sociology, or psych, no, his degree was in
business administration, uh he took philosophy, he went for a masters degree in sports
administration. And guess what? First thing he found a job immediately, he went to visit a friend
in California they gave him a job.
GN:
Well he’s bilingual.
IC:
Well that was another thing. Because he knew Spanish very well. But he never studied
anything like that. So I said don’t close your mind, you see. And Karen, she is at Vassar College
in the Museum of Art. And people…I remember people telling her, my husband said no, you
study what…art, what are you going to be able to do with art? Guess what, she loves it, she’s a
Vassar College. She’s a system register at the museum.
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GN:
Yeah. She’s very helpful I went there once, I was looking for..the Benedictine have this
thing and the main, one of the first foundations and they have.. Vassar College has Benedictine
the person… My Brother is as Benedictine he wanted to come and see it, so we went and saw it.
Okay we’re getting to the end, is there something I didn’t ask you that you’re dying to tell me.
IC:
Well no. I just wanted to tell you how when I started, everything was so familiar and mostly
men. The first three lay professors you know, full time, were Tom, Jerry White, and Bob Lewis
in English. Bob lived outside, but Tom and Jerry lived at Marist. And they were…what do you
call them, in the dormitories?
GN:
Oh yeah, Proctors.
IC:
Proctors. And I just, Tom used to tell at night, they would from 7-9, all the students would
have to be in their rooms with the door open, studying.
GN:
Studying, yeah, No talking, no radio.
IC:
Nothing, studying. And the, uh, Tom and Jerry, whoever was the proctor, they would walk
the halls back and forth to make sure they were studying.
GN: ?
IC:
Nothing, no no no no. The other thing I wanted to say, we used to have a group called the
faculty wives. And I remember, since the Brothers were not married, we would be the one
anytime they had anything social, the faculty wives would be the ones to serve coffee or
whatever, and we would have a brunch [laughs] I remember doing it. So that familiarity…
GN:
Was so precious in those days
IC:
Right, very precious.
GN:
We had a re…what was it, last year, the year before, we did have one reunion. Maybe I
can…few and few though….can’t come I mean they passed on and even Liz has a hard time
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getting around, you know, so, nevertheless, the years are passing. No it’s very nice to have this
chance to talk to you cause you bring the historical past and you’re still with it so you got a view
of Marist in a quarter of a Century and more.
IC:
I do miss that familiarity. I wish we could still have it because I think that also helped build
Marist College.
GN:
It’s the price of growth, though, as you said before, the bigger you get, the further out you
go, like the family
IC:
Eventually though, we have become this, and it’s nice because it’s still functioning and
everything but that familiarity is not there anymore and that was one of the greater things that we
had.
GN:
Yeah, well thank you very much, I’m gonna close this off now.
IC:
And I wonder if we could…well I didn’t mention all the trees and everything but you know
about that. I just wonder if we could have those Archives? Because there’s this teacher who
want…who is from the sciences. You know how they have their burrito on the…
GN:
Bill Parrot? Bill Parrot? He was in biology
IC:
Yeah but it wasn’t Bill Parrot..
GN:
Botany?
IC:
Huh?
GN:
He was...
IC:
I would have to find out...it was this teacher and Tom, maybe was it Bill? I don’t know for
sure but they were the ones that did all the trees and everything. And you know what I did when
they tore…they were gonna kill the Ginco that was there that was over a hundred years old? I
went that spring and I pick up all the seeds, which were smelly, I pick up about 20 or 21, and I
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took them home, put them in water, and they started to…the seedlings. And I brought them to the
burrito. And I know one of them was planted, they told me, by um, by where the McCann Center
is, somewhere there, so that’s from that tree, I did that.
GN:
Oh really? It’s still going?
IC:
I guess so. And some were kept there so that the students could learn, some of the seedlings,
and uh you know in Donnelly. And I give another one to a part time Benediction Nieves… part
time teacher in Spanish, and I have been to her house and the tree is blooming like you wouldn’t
believe.
GN:
Really?
IC:
Mhm.
GN:
Now Tom was from Collinsville Minnesota? Where is he from?
IC:
Tom was from Le Sawyer, you know the Green Giant?
GN
: Yeah
IC:
Le Sawyer, Minnesota. And he was studying to be a Priest.
GN:
At the College of St. John? Benediction?
IC:
No he was at the Oblates of Mary Immaculate. And then he was supposed to.. he and a
friend were supposed to be ordained, he had done his eight years, and they told him and the
friend from the class that they wanted to wait one more year. He had done his solemn vows and
everything, and they told him that they wanted to wait one more year, he and they other guy.
There were about six of them. And Tom said, no, I want to be a priest right now, I’ve been here
eight years already. And they said no, we’re the ones that make the decision, we think you and…
you’re gonna wait one more year. And Tom said no, that’s it, I’m leaving. And uh, when we
were going to get married, we needed the Pope’s dispensation, because he had made his solemn
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vows. So from Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which was in, I can’t remember it was in the middle
of the United States somewhere, I can’t remember.
GN:
Some place in Minnesota.
IC:
No it was not in Minnesota it was in another state.
GN
: Well Dakotas…South Dakota, North Dakota are right next to it, uh Fargo North Dakota is
uh
IC:
Of the Oblates?
GN:
I don’t know where the Oblates are but I know…
IC:
Oh, I forgot I mean I have it at home.
GN:
My brother is in Collinsville, that’s why. I went there for a degree in theology.
IC
: Oh, yeah that was one of Tom’s degrees and philosophy. So he left and he applied to
Fordham and he was accepted right away too, so that’s where I met him.
GN:
When did he come here?
IC:
1963. He started at Fordham in ’61, ’62
GN:
Yeah. But when did he come to Marist?
IC:
’63 he started.
GN:
What happened?
IC:
He was hired right away, he came for an interview. Yeah they were looking for philosophy
teachers, and he was hired right away. But he was still going for, trying to finish his PhD after
the masters. He would drive to New York for that even after we were married. But he started,
yeah, right away.
