John
 
White
Marist
 
College
Poughkeepsie,
 
NY
Transcribed
 
by
 
Amy
 
Dugan
For
 
the
 
Marist
 
College
 
Archives
 
and
 
Special
 
Collections
1






White,
 
John
Transcript
 
–
 
John
 
White
 
Interviewee:
  
John
 
White
Interviewer:
  
Students
Interview
 
Date:
  
December
 
5,
 
1991
Location:
 
Topic:
 
Marist
 
College
 
History
Subject
 
Headings:
  
White, John
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Professor Emeritus
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
  
John White reflects upon his arrival to Marist College as a Professor of History. He
discusses his most memorable moments, the social changes throughout the years on campus,
how his perception of his role on campus has changed, as well as Marist’s biggest assets and
liabilities.
2






Speaker
 
2
 
(11:56):
I'm
 
interviewing
 
Professor
 
John
 
White.
 
He's
 
a
 
professor
 
of
 
history
 
at
 
Marist
 
college.
 
He's
 
been
 
here
 
since
1963.
 
And
 
we'll
 
start
 
off
 
with
 
the
 
first
 
question.
 
What
 
initially
 
brought
 
you
 
to
 
Marist
 
college?
 
What
 
was
 
your
 
first
 
contact
 
with
 
the
 
college?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(12:16):
I
 
was
 
in
 
graduate
 
school
 
at
 
Fordham
 
in
 
the
 
spring
 
of
 
1963
 
and
 
I
 
had
 
finished
 
my
 
graduate
 
work
 
and
 
I
 
was
looking
 
for
 
job.
 
One
 
of
 
the
 
professors
 
at
 
Fordham,
 
Joe
 
Callahan
 
went
 
to
 
the
 
medieval
 
academy
 
dinner
 
in
 
Waston.
 
And
 
by
 
coincidence,
 
he
 
sat
 
next
 
to
 
Dr.
 
Walsh
 
who
 
was
 
looking
 
for
 
someone
 
to
 
teach
 
European
 
history,
 
medieval
 
history.
 
So
 
Joel
 
Callaghan
 
told
 
me
 
to
 
write
 
Rosco.
 
I
 
came
 
up
 
here
 
in
 
June1963,
 
actually
 
May,
 
probably
 
May
 
and
 
then
 
again
 
in
 
June
 
and
 
I
 
started
 
teaching
 
in
 
September.
Speaker
 
2
 
(13:08):
Did
 
you
 
here
 
of
 
Marist
 
beforehand?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(13:11):
Yes,
 
I
 
knew
 
of
 
it
 
because
 
where
 
the
 
culinary
 
is
 
now
 
used
 
to
 
be
 
the
 
Jesuit
 
house
 
of
 
studies
 
at
 
St.
 
Andrews
 
and
 
Fordham
 
is
 
a
 
Jesuit
 
school.
 
One
 
of
 
my
 
graduate
 
professors
 
following
 
me.
Speaker
 
2
 
(13:34):
What
 
is
 
your
 
most
 
memorable
 
moment
 
or
 
event
 
witnessed
 
or
 
involved
 
in
 
while
 
you
 
were
 
here
 
at
 
Marist?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(13:42):
Well,
 
I've
 
been
 
thinking
 
about
 
that
 
since
 
you
 
showed
 
me
 
those
 
questions
 
yesterday
 
and
 
there
 
are
 
two
 
actually,
 
and
 
I
 
think
 
one
 
of
 
them
 
would
 
be
 
answered
 
in
 
the
 
second,
 
third
 
question
 
about
 
social
 
change.
 
I'll
 
use
 
the
 
other
 
one
 
then.
 
I
 
think
 
the
 
events
 
that
 
surrounded
 
the
 
Kent
 
state
 
problem
 
in
 
1970
 
which
 
not
 
only
 
did
 
we
 
witness
 
the
 
student
 
reaction
 
to
 
that,
 
but
 
I
 
think
 
ultimately
 
that
 
also
 
rather
 
dramatically
 
changed
 
the
 
method
 
and
 
manner
 
of
 
the
 
structure
 
of
 
the
 
college
 
education
 
wise.
 
We
 
stopped
 
certain
 
requirements,
 
we
 
moved
 
into
 
certain
 
other
 
areas
 
and
 
I'm
 
not
 
terribly
 
sure
 
that
 
that
 
was
 
for
 
the
 
best,
 
but
we
 
did
 
it.
Speaker
 
2
 
(14:35):
What
 
kind
 
of
 
reaction
 
did
 
you
 
see
 
from
 
the
 
students?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(14:37):
Well,
 
I
 
remember
 
distinctly
 
there
 
were
 
a
 
whole
 
series
 
of
 
meetings.
 
The
 
cafeteria
 
in
 
the
 
campus
 
center,
 
there
 
were
 
a
 
whole
 
series
 
of
 
statements
 
and
 
protests,
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
suspension
 
of
 
exams.
 
I
 
understand
 
there
 
were
 
plans
 
for
 
all
 
kinds
 
of
 
marches.
 
It
 
was
 
another
 
dramatic
 
event.
Speaker
 
2
 
(15:07):
Was
 
there
 
much
 
protesting
 
during
 
the
 
Vietnam
 
War
 
on
 
campus?
 
Or
 
was
 
it
 
quiet?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(15:13):
It's
 
interesting
 
that
 
we
 
look
 
back
 
on
 
the
 
Vietnam
 
War
 
now
 
we
 
make
 
certain
 
observations
 
about
 
it
 
and
 
certainly
 
as
 
a
 
history
 
teacher,
 
we
 
become
 
aware
 
of
 
the
 
fact
 
that
 
we
 
view
 
that
 
now
 
in
 
a
 
certain
 
different
 
light
 
than
 
those
 
of
 
us
 
who
 
experienced
 
it.
 
I
 
certainly
 
ultimately
 
became
 
most
 
sympathetic
 
to
 
the
 
attitude
of
 
the
 
students
 
but
 
I
 
came
 
off
 
a
 
different
 
perspective
 
initially.
 
I
 
came
 
here,
 
I
 
came
 
to
 
graduate
 
school
 
after
 
five
 
years
 
in
 
the
 
Navy.
 
And
 
so
 
my
 
approach
 
to
 
military
 
was
 
a
 
little
 
different,
 
but
 
ultimately
 
what
 
I
 
think
 
created
 
a
 
great
 
deal
 
of
 
difficulty
 
for
 
me
 
and
 
I
 
think
 
that
 
some
 
of
 
my
 
colleagues
 
was
 
the
 
fact
 
that
 
as
 
3


the
 
Vietnam
 
War
 
progressed,
 
and
 
so
 
many
 
students
 
had
 
student
 
affirmance
 
then
 
it
 
became
 
a
 
very
 
real
 
issue
 
for
 
any
 
number
 
of
 
us
 
as
 
to
 
what
 
kind
 
of
 
grades
 
we'd
 
give
 
out,
 
because
 
if
 
a
 
student
 
failed
 
then
 
in
 
a
 
certain
 
sense
 
we
 
were
 
sentencing
 
him
 
to
 
military
 
and
 
God
 
knows
 
what
 
would
 
happen.
 
So
 
I
 
would
 
suggest
 
that
 
problem
 
plus
 
the
 
growing
 
disenchantment
 
with
 
the
 
government.
 
And
 
I
 
think,
 
I
 
guess
 
there's
in
 
my
 
mind,
 
there's
 
nothing
 
that
 
strikes
 
me
 
more
 
graphically
 
regarding
 
the
 
problem
 
of
 
Vietnam.
 
And
 
in
 
that
 
same
 
spring
 
of
 
1978,
 
the
 
famous
 
March
 
on
 
Washington,
 
the
 
students
 
were
 
going
 
around
 
and
 
I'll
 
never
 
forget
 
being
 
absolutely
 
disgusted
 
with
 
the
 
arrogant
 
pose
 
of
 
the
 
John
 
Mitchell
 
attorney
 
general,
 
as
 
he
 
was
 
standing
 
on
 
the
 
balcony
 
outside,
 
outside
 
his
 
office,
 
in
 
the
 
justice
 
building
 
and
 
the
 
look
 
of
 
scorn
 
on
 
his
 
face.
 
And
 
I
 
never
 
had
 
any
 
great
 
love
 
for
 
Nixon
 
anyway
 
and
 
that
 
administration,
 
but
 
that
 
certainly
 
reinforced
 
my
 
position.
 
And
 
now,
 
as
 
I
 
look
 
back,
 
certainly
 
seeing
 
what
 
happened
 
with
 
Watergate
 
and
 
John
 
Mitchell's
 
role,
 
the
 
arrogance
 
of
 
that
 
reinforced.
Speaker
 
2
 
(17:35):
The
 
third
 
question,
 
what
 
social
 
changes
 
have
 
you
 
witnessed?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(17:40):
That
 
was
 
the
 
one
 
I
 
was
 
gonna
 
say
 
to
 
go
 
hand
 
and
 
look,
 
I
 
think
 
the
 
really
 
significant
 
social
 
change
 
I
 
found
 
is
 
when
 
I
 
first
 
came,
 
this
 
college
 
was
 
all
 
boys.
 
And
 
I
 
think
 
it
 
was
 
in
 
'68
 
or
 
'69
 
that
 
we
 
shifted
 
over
 
to
 
coed
 
and
 
it
 
was,
 
it
 
was
 
very
 
amusing
 
as
 
a
 
background,
 
they
 
could
 
have
 
girls
 
in
 
the
 
night
 
class,
 
but
 
couldn't
 
have
 
women
 
in
 
the
 
day
 
class
 
so
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
separation.
 
The
 
night
 
school
 
was
 
separate,
 
but
 
then
 
in
 
preparation
 
for
 
it,
 
there
 
were
 
a
 
whole
 
series
 
of
 
of
 
meetings.
 
I
 
remember
 
going
 
to
 
a
 
couple
 
of
 
them
 
over
 
in
 
the
 
fireside
 
round.
 
And
 
Tom
 
Wade
 
was
 
then
 
the
 
Dean.
 
He
 
was
 
all
 
for
 
this
 
change
 
and
 
what
 
made
 
it
 
not
 
so
 
funny
 
was
 
the
 
very
 
guys
 
who
 
I
 
thought
 
would
 
be
 
supportive
 
of
 
women,
 
were
 
all
 
the
 
ones
 
that
 
got
 
up
 
and
 
said,
 
no,
 
we
 
don't
 
want
 
any
 
women
 
here.
 
That's
 
gonna
 
ruin
 
the
 
character
 
of
 
the
 
college.
 
And
 
one
kid
 
got
 
up
 
and
 
said
 
and
 
I
 
found
 
it
 
so
 
amusing
 
because
 
the
 
juxtaposition
 
of
 
something,
 
one
 
guy
 
got
 
up
 
and
 
said,
 
well,
 
if
 
we
 
have
 
have
 
girls
 
then
 
Jerry
 
White
 
can't
 
tell
 
raunchy
 
stories
 
history
 
classes,
 
and
 
that'll
 
be
 
ruined.
 
And
 
I
 
remember
 
sitting
 
in
 
the
 
class
 
and
 
I
 
said,
 
but
 
I
 
can.
 
I
 
said,
 
because
 
I
 
just,
 
by
 
coincidence
 
that
 
semester,
 
I
 
was
 
teaching
 
group
 
of
 
novices
 
over
 
at
 
mother
 
Cabrini.
 
And
 
I
 
was
 
telling
 
them
 
the
 
same
 
stories
 
I
 
was
 
telling
 
the
 
guys.
 
And
 
I
 
said,
 
no,
 
it's
 
not
 
true,
 
but
 
I
 
found
 
that
 
so
 
strange
 
that
 
there
 
would
 
be
 
such
 
reaction.
 
And
 
now
 
I
 
understand
 
I
 
can
 
come
 
perhaps
 
come
 
to
 
grips
 
with
 
problems
 
let's
 
say
 
that
 
exist
in
 
those
 
eating
 
clubs
 
in
 
Princeton.
 
Now
 
all
 
those
 
guys
 
want
 
to
 
keep
 
those
 
male
 
S
 
but
 
the
 
other
 
thing
 
was,
 
Tom
 
Wade
 
was
 
convinced
 
that
 
if
 
girls
 
came
 
on
 
campus,
 
I'll
 
never
 
forget
 
he
 
said
 
to
 
me,
 
what
 
that's
 
gonna
 
do,
 
he
 
said,
 
it's
 
gonna
 
raise
 
the
 
level
 
of
 
dressing.
 
Everybody's
 
gonna
 
be
 
gonna
 
be
 
dressing
 
better
 
or
 
no
 
jeans
 
and
 
that
 
sort
 
of
 
thing.
 
And
 
I
 
said,
 
yeah,
 
good
 
luck.
 
But
 
I
 
think
 
that
 
was
 
a
 
great
 
event.
 
Okay.
 
And
 
I
 
haven't
 
stopped
 
telling
 
Roger.
Speaker
 
2
 
(19:48):
How
 
has
 
the
 
perception
 
of
 
your
 
role
 
here
 
at
 
Marist
 
changed
 
since
 
your
 
first
 
involvement
 
with
 
the
 
college?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(20:04):
You
 
were
 
asking
 
me
 
to
 
tell
 
you
 
about
 
what
 
I
 
did...
 
.
Speaker
 
2
 
(20:07):
Well,
 
when
 
you
 
came
 
here,
 
what
 
was
 
your
 
role
 
then?
 
And
 
now,
 
how
 
do
 
you
 
see
 
yourself
 
now?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(20:12):
4


Okay.
 
When
 
I
 
came
 
I
 
was
 
with
 
Roscoe,
 
I
 
think
 
we
 
were
 
the
 
only
 
two
 
who
 
were
 
teaching
 
medieval
 
history.
 
We
 
also
 
taught,
 
I
 
taught
 
more
 
European.
Speaker
 
2
 
(20:28):
Or
 
I'll
 
give
 
you
 
a
 
better
 
one,
 
how
 
have
 
you
 
seen
 
the
 
history
 
department
 
of
 
Marist
 
College
 
change
 
since
 
you've
 
been
 
here?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(20:36):
One
 
of
 
the
 
the
 
problems
 
as
 
I
 
just
 
alluded
 
to
 
answer
 
your
 
second
 
question
 
of
 
the
 
change
 
in
 
the
 
curriculum
 
as
 
a
 
consequence
 
of
 
the
 
whole
 
revolution
 
in
 
the
 
sixties
 
and
 
seventies.
 
One
 
of
 
the
 
things
 
that
 
happened
 
then
 
was
 
that
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
downplaying
 
of
 
core
 
courses.
 
When
 
I
 
came
 
here,
 
students
 
took
 
medieval,
 
moderate,
 
American,
 
two
 
semesters
 
of
 
American
 
history
 
and
 
there
 
were
 
a
 
substantial
 
number
of
 
majors
 
if
 
I
 
remember
 
correctly.
 
We
 
in
 
the
 
history
 
department
 
along
 
with
 
English,
 
had
 
the
 
largest
 
number
 
of
 
majors
 
in
 
the
 
school.
 
One
 
of
 
the
 
problems
 
that
 
followed
 
the
 
the
 
change
 
in
 
the
 
curriculum
 
was
 
that
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
downplaying
 
of
 
the
 
core
 
courses
 
or
 
what
 
we
 
now
 
call
 
core
 
courses.
 
And
 
as
 
a
 
consequence
 
of
 
those
 
survey
 
courses
 
that
 
were
 
either
 
dropped
 
or
 
they
 
were
 
changed
 
or
 
they
 
were
 
combined
 
with
 
other
 
courses.
 
As
 
the
 
as
 
the
 
number
 
of
 
history
 
majors
 
declined,
 
as
 
you
 
go
 
through
 
the
 
end
 
of
 
the
 
seventies
 
and
 
the
 
eighties,
 
that
 
meant
 
that
 
we
 
here
 
became
 
much
 
more
 
service
 
oriented
 
so
 
far
 
as
 
then
 
fulfilling
 
the
 
new
 
curriculum
 
in
 
the
 
core
 
and
 
we
 
don't
 
have
 
as
 
many
 
history
 
courses
 
as
 
we
 
used
 
to.
 
I
 
remember
 
when
 
I
 
was
 
teaching,
 
there
 
must
 
have
 
been
 
about
 
six
 
or
 
eight
 
courses
 
that
 
I
 
had
 
to
 
handle.
 
And
 
now
 
I'm
 
not
 
doing
 
that
 
many,
 
but
 
I
 
had,
 
we
 
had
 
medieval
 
art
 
architecture,
 
we
 
had
 
special
 
course
 
in
 
the
 
Renaissance,
 
we
 
had
 
a
 
special
 
course
 
in
 
form
 
ideas
 
and
 
middle
 
ages
 
and
 
that
 
sort
 
of
 
thing.
Speaker
 
2
 
(22:25):
So
 
do
 
you
 
think
 
now
 
you're
 
more
 
specific?
 
Your
 
teaching
 
role
 
has
 
become
 
much
 
more
 
narrowed.
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(22:31):
Well,
 
it's
 
been
 
narrowed.
 
I
 
mean
 
you
 
still
 
have
 
to
 
teach
 
the
 
core,
 
but
 
to
 
me
 
there's
 
a
 
terrible
 
problem.
 
I
 
find
 
that
 
we're
 
given
 
three,
 
possibly
 
six
 
hours
 
of
 
the
 
student's
 
life.
 
And
 
most
 
of
 
my
 
students
 
who
 
come
 
in
 
don't
 
know
 
that
 
much
 
history
 
and
 
so
 
I
 
then
 
have
 
the
 
problem
 
of
 
trying
 
to
 
figure
 
out
 
what
 
they
 
can
 
do
 
to
 
fill
 
in
 
the
 
blanks
 
from
 
their
 
high
 
school
 
and
 
that
 
becomes
 
certainly
 
it's
 
a
 
challenge
 
every
 
year
 
that
 
I've
 
taught
 
this
 
core
 
course,
 
we've
 
changed
 
the
 
name
 
of
 
that
 
four
 
times
 
in
 
the
 
past
 
10
 
years.
 
But
 
each
 
year
 
it
comes
 
more
 
and
 
more
 
of
 
the
 
challenges
 
as
 
to
 
what
 
you
 
do,
 
how
 
you
 
handle
 
all
 
that
 
material
 
and
 
the
 
responsibility
 
is
 
to
 
me,
 
at
 
least
 
I
 
think
 
the
 
responsibility
 
gets
 
greater
 
and
 
greater
 
in
 
realizing
 
you
 
have
 
just
 
so
 
little
 
time
 
to
 
get
 
so
 
much
 
without
 
putting
 
them
 
to
 
sleep.
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(23:29):
I
 
was
 
also
 
chairman
 
for
 
three
 
years,
 
'60,
 
'65,
 
'68.
 
I
 
hated
 
it.
 
I
 
don't
 
know
 
why
 
I
 
did
 
it,
 
but
 
I
 
do
 
remember
 
my
 
desk.
 
I
 
ran
 
the
 
department
 
in
 
fashion
 
and
 
I
 
got
 
the
 
word
 
of
 
advice
 
from
 
a
 
friend
 
of
 
mine
 
who
 
was
 
then
 
chairman
 
of
 
the
 
of
 
the
 
history
 
department
 
at
 
Fordham,
 
Roger
 
Wines.
 
Ran
 
into
 
him
 
once
 
at
 
the
 
American
 
star
 
association
 
convention.
 
And
 
he
 
said,
 
Jerry,
 
I
 
got
 
a
 
whole
 
batch
 
of
 
papers
 
that
 
fell
 
off
 
the
 
end
 
of
 
my
 
desk
 
in
 
September.
 
I
 
never
 
found
 
out
 
about
 
them
 
and
 
I
 
didn't
 
discover
 
them
 
until
 
December,
 
nobody
 
needed
 
them.
 
So
 
I
 
figured
 
the
 
same
 
thing,
 
be
 
important.
 
One
 
other
 
comment
 
I
 
would
 
make
 
about
 
the
 
social
 
aspect
 
of
 
things
 
that
 
changed
 
when
 
one
 
of
 
the
 
things
 
that
 
endeared
 
me
 
to
 
this
 
college
 
initially
 
was
 
the
 
fact
 
that
 
it
 
was
 
smaller.
 
I
 
went
 
to
 
a
 
small
 
college.
 
and
 
there
 
was
 
great
 
contact
 
and
 
when
 
I
 
first
 
came
 
here,
 
let's
 
say
 
through
 
the
 
the
 
sixties
 
and
 
seventies
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
great
 
deal
 
of
 
interaction
 
between
 
the
 
students
 
and
 
faculty.
 
We
 
used
 
to
 
meet,
 
go
 
to
 
dorms
 
and
 
wrap
 
to
 
go
 
across
 
here.
 
It
 
was
 
where
 
Skinners
 
is,
 
another
 
bar,
 
and
 
we'd
 
sit
 
there,
 
walk
 
down
 
to
 
the
 
big
 
watering
 
hole
 
here
 
was
 
for
 
the
 
brown
 
Derby
 
that
 
was
 
Marist
 
off
 
campus.
 
In
 
fact,
 
I
 
remember
 
one
 
year
 
it
 
was
 
the
 
guy
 
who
 
was
 
the
 
5


student
 
body
 
president
 
spent
 
most
 
of
 
his
 
time
 
down
 
there.
 
In
 
fact,
 
I
 
think
 
there
 
were
 
any
 
number
 
of
 
student
 
body
 
meetings
 
that
 
took
 
place
 
in
 
the
 
brown
 
Derby
 
and
 
the
 
bartenders
 
were
 
all
 
Marist
 
students
 
and
 
there's
 
a
 
whole
 
series.
 
I
 
think
 
the
 
the
 
last
 
chance
 
was
 
actually
 
originally
 
performed
 
by
 
a
 
bunch
 
of
 
guys
 
who
 
had
 
worked
 
at
 
the
 
brown
 
Derby
 
and
 
talented.
 
And
 
there's
 
one
 
group
 
that
 
they
 
used
 
to
 
have
 
a
 
banjo
 
band
 
or
 
something
 
that
 
sat
 
up
 
on
 
top
 
of
 
the
 
juke
 
box...
 
i'm
 
trying
 
think
 
of
 
the
 
guy
 
Larry
 
Clover
 
that's
 
Larry
 
Clover
 
he
 
was
 
an
 
English
 
major
 
and
 
he
 
played
 
his
 
guitar
 
or
 
banjo
 
and
 
he
 
and
 
another
 
bunch
 
of
 
guys
 
found
 
at
 
the
 
ground
 
the
 
last
 
chance
 
and
 
also
 
the
 
Renaissance
 
was
 
originally
 
established
 
by
 
some
 
Marist
 
people,
 
it
 
was
 
also
 
the
 
old
 
Coke
 
was
 
on
 
management
 
street.
 
No,
 
it
 
was
 
on
 
market
 
street.
 
Bill
 
that's
 
his
 
name...
 
playwright,
 
you
 
know,
 
lots
 
of
 
lots
 
of
 
interaction
 
now,
 
as
 
the
 
school
 
seemed
 
to
 
get
 
bigger.
 
I
 
don't
 
know
 
what
 
happened
 
to
 
that
 
but
 
you
 
mean
 
you
 
could
 
always
 
go
 
wandering
 
it
 
wasn't
 
called
 
a
 
Renaissance.
 
It
 
was
 
called
 
that
 
place.
 
It
 
was
 
called
 
up
 
to
 
house.
 
In
 
fact,
 
I
 
remember
 
one
 
of
 
my
 
students,
 
I
 
was
 
an
 
attorney
 
George
 
esky,
 
and
 
I
 
had
 
a,
 
was
 
sitting
 
on
 
top
 
of
 
a,
 
a
 
hood
 
of
 
a
 
car
 
in
 
the
 
parking
 
lot,
 
drinking
 
beer,
 
about
 
two
 
o'clock
 
in
 
the
 
morning.
 
And
 
we
 
got
 
into
 
problem.
 
He
 
didn't
 
like
 
my
 
approach,
 
constitutional
 
history
 
liar.
 
And
 
I
 
said,
 
right,
 
let's
 
prove
 
it.
 
We
 
became
 
good
 
friends.
 
Really?
 
Yeah.
 
But
 
there
 
was
 
a
 
great
 
deal
 
of
 
opportunity
 
interaction,
 
I
 
mean
 
yeah,
 
outside
 
the
 
class.
 
Yeah.
 
It
 
was,
 
it
 
was
 
marvelous.
 
You
 
could,
 
but
 
you
 
didn't
 
know
 
that
 
to
 
do
 
all
 
those
 
bars.
 
No,
 
man.
 
Little
 
mayor's
 
history.
 
In
 
fact
 
there
 
was
 
another,
 
I
 
knew
 
one
 
guy
 
who
 
used
 
to
 
be
 
on
 
security.
 
I'm
 
not
 
gonna
 
tell
 
you
 
his
 
name.
 
Cause
 
when
 
get
 
back,
 
he
 
used
 
to
 
be
 
a
 
football
 
player.
 
He,
 
he
 
was
 
a
 
linebacker
 
and
 
he
 
was
 
working
here
 
for
 
a
 
while
 
and
 
he
 
had
 
one
 
of
 
those
 
walkie
 
talking,
 
well,
 
that
 
could
 
carry
 
as
 
far
 
as
 
the
 
the
 
circle
 
bar
 
across
 
the
 
river.
 
So
 
he
 
could
 
go
 
out
 
there
 
and
 
could
 
hear,
 
oh,
 
security.
 
The
 
fifth
 
question.
 
What
 
do
 
you
 
view
 
as
 
mayor's
 
biggest
 
asset
 
and
 
its
 
biggest
 
liability?
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(28:14):
I've
 
been
 
thinking
 
about
 
that
 
one.
 
I
 
think
 
our
 
asset
 
is
 
still
 
at
 
least
 
even
 
though
 
what
 
I've
 
just
 
said
 
about
 
the
 
loss
 
of
 
that
 
kind
 
of,
 
I
 
still
 
think,
 
I
 
still
 
think
 
that
 
majority
 
of
 
us
 
on
 
the
 
faculty
 
still
 
afford
 
cause
 
student
 
body
 
the
 
opportunity
 
to
 
meet
 
and
 
I
 
think
 
that's
 
important.
 
Cause
 
I
 
think
 
really,
 
if
 
we
 
don't
 
do
 
that,
 
then
 
it's
 
a,
 
it's
 
a
 
waste
 
of
 
your
 
money.
 
You
 
need
 
to
 
then
 
go
 
to
 
a,
 
a
 
state
 
school,
 
pay
 
less.
 
I
 
think
 
that
 
the
 
great
 
asset
 
is
 
that
 
we
 
have
 
the
 
student
 
body
 
has
 
the
 
opportunity
 
to
 
constantly
 
meet
 
with
 
faculty.
 
There's
 
still
 
that
 
personal
 
thing.
 
I
 
like
 
to
 
think
 
there
 
still
 
is
 
a
 
personal
 
relationship.
 
But
 
cause
 
of
 
these
 
stupid
 
rules
 
about
 
drinking,
 
you
 
can't
 
go
 
out
 
to
 
a
 
bar,
 
at
 
least
 
you're
 
not
 
supposed
 
to
 
see
 
that
 
they're
 
drinking.
 
But
 
that's
 
very
 
important
 
I've
 
always
 
thought
 
plus
 
the
 
fact
 
that
 
I
 
guess
 
there's
 
an
 
ambiguity.
 
On
 
one
 
side
 
I
 
think
 
it's
 
one
 
of
 
the
 
great
 
assets
 
is
 
that
 
we
 
are
 
making
 
use
 
of
 
so
 
much
 
that's
 
available
 
to
 
us
 
here
 
in
 
this
 
area
 
as
 
far
 
as
 
let's
 
say
 
computers
 
and
 
IBM
 
and
 
that
 
sort
 
of
 
thing.
 
On
 
the
 
other
 
side,
 
the
 
liability
 
to
 
that
 
I
 
see
 
is
 
the
 
possibility
 
that
 
we'd
 
cease
 
to
 
be
 
a
 
liberal
 
arts
 
school
 
and
 
we'd
 
cease
 
to
 
have
 
a
 
liberal
 
arts
 
tradition
 
and
 
we
 
could
 
get
 
into
 
the
 
traffic
 
of
 
becoming
 
a
 
trade
 
school,
 
which
 
I
 
think
 
would
 
be
 
terrible.
 
And
 
in
 
fact,
 
you
 
could
 
put
 
that
 
down
 
as
 
the
 
problem,
 
the
 
biggest
 
liability.
 
The
 
other
 
side
 
is,
 
I
 
must
 
say,
 
I
 
think
 
in
 
the
 
past
 
10
 
or
 
11
 
years,
 
the
 
longest
 
he's
 
been
 
here,
 
I
 
think
 
Dennis
 
has
 
done
 
a
 
marvelous
 
job
 
in
 
building
 
up
 
the
 
facility
 
of
 
the
 
campus.
 
I
 
think
 
the
 
place,
 
if
 
you
 
could've
 
seen
 
it,
 
when
 
I
 
came,
 
Champagnat
 
wasn't
 
here,
 
I
 
think
 
it
 
was...
Speaker
 
2
 
(30:23):
The
 
cosmetic
 
part.
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(30:24):
Yeah
 
I
 
mean,
 
he's
 
done
 
a
 
splendid
 
job
 
of
 
building
 
and
 
making
 
the
 
place
 
much
 
more
 
presentable
 
as
 
it
 
were
 
much
 
more
 
attractive.
 
And
 
as
 
much
 
as
 
there
 
may
 
be
 
difficulties
 
between
 
the
 
faculty
 
and
 
the
 
administration,
 
that
 
comes
 
up,
 
I
 
think
 
in
 
the
 
long
 
history
 
of
 
any
 
institution,
 
that
 
type
 
of
 
thing.
 
Well,
 
it
 
may
 
give
 
a
 
couple
 
of
 
people,
 
hypertension.
 
I
 
think
 
it's
 
a
 
very
 
useful
 
thing
 
because
 
it
 
keeps
 
everybody
 
on
 
6


the
 
toes.
 
There's
 
always
 
something
 
going
 
on
 
and
 
that
 
type
 
of
 
an
 
interaction.
 
Well,
 
I
 
talk
 
about
 
that
 
in
 
specific
 
classes.
 
If
 
you
 
can
 
constantly
 
get
 
things
 
bouncing
 
off
 
each
 
other.
Speaker
 
2
 
(31:07):
All
 
right,
 
professor,
 
that's
 
it.
 
Yep.
 
Thank
 
you
 
for
 
your
 
time.
 
Appreciate
 
it.
Professor
 
John
 
White
 
(31:12):
I'm
 
not
 
convicted
 
of
 
anything?
Speaker
 
2
 
(31:12):
No,
 
I'd
 
tell
 
you
 
(laughter).
7