Interview with: ARTHUR HIMMELBERGER
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Lily Jandrisevits
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections





Transcript: Arthur Himmelberger

Interviewee: Arthur Himmelberger
Interviewer: Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers
Interview Date: 1 April 2022
Location: James A. Cannavino Library

Topic: Marist College History

Subject Headings:
Himmelberger, Arthur
Marist College Faculty



Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)



Marist College. School of Communications and the Arts



Marist College. Music Department



Music

Summary: Arthur Himmelberger talks about his early personal history and undergraduate
experience at the University of Michigan which supported and developed his skills as a
percussionist. He also talks about his professional experiences leading bands in elementary,
middle, and high schools before working at West Point and Marist College. Arthur developed the
Marist band before eventually becoming Director of the Music Department. He shares
memorable stories from working with students throughout his career as well as past challenges
and his hopes for the future of the Marist Music Department.





Jan Stivers (
00:00:21
):
Okay. Well, alright. Thank you very, very much for the record or for the recording. We're going
to say that today is Friday, April 1st, 2022. I am Jan Stivers. This is,
Gus Nolan (
00:00:33
):
Gus Nolan.
JS (
00:00:34
):
And we have the privilege of interviewing Arthur Himmelberger for the Marist college oral
history project. Now the oral history project is designed to create this repository of the reflections
of people who have had a hand in developing a role in developing Marist college. So, we are
grateful for all that you did to get you to the point where we can talk about this and also for all
that you did to make space in your day for this interview. So, thank you for this contribution to
the archives. We typically take this in three parts, the first part, a little bit about your
background. [Affirmative] The biggest part is how you established this incredible enterprise here
at the college and the last part, some of your reflections on the college today, we want to really
concentrate on that middle part, how this program was built.
GN (
00:01:42
):
Yeah, well, let's start from the beginning. The unique thing about this, Art, is that we're recording
it with your voice. It's what you say it was not what we're saying it was.
Arthur Himmelberger (
00:01:52
):
Right.



2
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
00:01:53
):
I think that's for the research, people who come along and say, where do you get this idea? The
very man himself [affirmative] or the very woman itself. The other unique thing about this is that
we've never interviewed anybody with your kind of background. Generally, teachers use a
classroom, they have books. We have staff members who go to an office, they have typewriters,
you come on scene. We have a lot of questions about the whole thing that we want to get to. But
first, a few things, basically, early years, who are you, where were you born? What were the
early years like? Could you just summarize that in a few words?
AH (
00:02:31
):
Sure. I'd love to. I brought my [laugh] CV along just so that the memory works a little bit. I was
born in Redding, Pennsylvania, 28, November 1950. And I had a father who was a high school
principal and a mother who was a nurse. And they were both very musical. My father had played
in military bands during the Second World War and started taking me to community band
rehearsals when I was two years old. He built me a little bench, he took me to rehearsals on
Thursday nights, said, you'd be quiet. You sit on that bench and you listen. So I've been listening
to bands literally for the last 70 years because I'm soon to be 72. So bands have been kind of my
life. And so I ended up playing with that community band when I was nine years old.
[Affirmative] And then I went into the school band program at my high school and excelled
there. I had some very fine private teachers in the realm of percussion. I'm a percussionist by
craft. And so I ended up being in like Pennsylvania all state band, county bands, and ultimately
this all led to the road to the University of Michigan where I did my undergraduate work
GN (
00:04:13
):


3
Arthur Himmelberger

Before we get there. What about the regular schooling, learning how to read and write and was
this in private schools?
AH (
00:04:22
):
It was in a public school, public school system in Burkes county, Pennsylvania.
GN (
00:04:29
):
Okay. And you went to a high school after that?
AH (
00:04:31
):
I went to high school, Conrad Weiser high school in a little town called Robesonia, Pennsylvania
and there, you know, I just had excellent schooling. I really did. And they always say that if
you're musically inclined you're also mathematically inclined because music is an applied
mathematics. Okay. So I was pretty bright in math and the guidance counselors encouraged me.
You should go on to be a math major, but I said, no, no, no, I want to be a music major. And they
said, oh, how are you going to make a living in music? So, I was bound and determined to do
that.
GN (
00:05:18
):
Any other activities though? Did you sing in a choir, did you drama on plays? Did you, any other
club, stamp collecting anything.
AH (
00:05:26
):
I was a stamp collector.
GN (
00:05:29
):


4
Arthur Himmelberger

Really?
AH (
00:05:29
):
Yes. I have a wonderful stamp collection.
JS (
00:05:32
):
Organization, orderliness.
AH (
00:05:32
):
Yes. I have a stamp collection at home that I don't know what my daughter's going to do with
when I pass. But, I was president of the drama club. I was vice president of the choir and I was
vice president of the band in the high school. So I was totally involved in the performing arts.
GN (
00:05:59
):
Boy, that says a lot as to why you are where you are.
JS (
00:06:02
):
Plus the leadership role.
AH (
00:06:03
):
Yeah. You know, another interesting tidbit, in my high school experience, which is unrelated to
music, is during my senior year, the second semester I served as a United States capital page.
JS (
00:06:21
):
Oh, wow.


5
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:06:22
):
In the House of Representatives in Washington, that was an incredible experience. Rubbing
elbows with--.
JS (
00:06:31
):
People whose names were in the newspaper.
AH (
00:06:34
):
People's names. Yes. You know, yes. I have, as a matter of fact in my office, I have photographs
of Gerald Ford and Hubert Humphrey and a list of others, you know, Everett Dirksen.
JS (
00:06:48
):
Gene McCarthy--.
GN (
00:06:48
):
What was the ticket by which that was achieved? How did you get there? Did you apply?
AH (
00:06:56
):
I had a Sunday school teacher who, actually was-- knew the Kennedys and was a close friend of
John Kennedy and was politically attached and somehow he made it possible for me to serve in
the House of Representatives.
JS (
00:07:21
):
Yeah. Now pages are not assigned to a particular representative. Right?
AH (
00:07:27
):


6
Arthur Himmelberger

They are appointed by a particular representative. [Affirmative] But then you serve everybody,
right. And I ended up serving in the Senate.
GN (
00:07:38
):
How many are in the booth?
AH (
00:07:40
):
How many pages were there at the time? Oh--.
GN (
00:07:44
):
Are there a hundred?
AH (
00:07:45
):
No, I'd say maybe about twenty in the house. [Affirmative] And probably about fifteen in the
Senate.
JS (
00:07:52
):
It's remained select today.
AH (
00:07:54
):
Well, the House of Representatives program went away.
JS (
00:07:59
):
After the scandals.
AH (
00:08:00
):


7
Arthur Himmelberger

Two or three years ago after the scandals. But the Senate program is still going strong and we're
hoping that the House of Representatives program will reestablish itself, but I don't think it'll
occur. It was Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner who, collectively the two of them decided let's
eliminate the possibility of future abuse. [Affirmative] And, it was abuse.
GN (
00:08:35
):
Alright, well, encouraging things, coming back to your career.
AH (
00:08:41
):
Right.
GN (
00:08:42
):
And, well, we let you talk in other words.
AH (
00:08:46
):
Okay.
GN (
00:08:46
):
So what would you think is next that you'd like to say?
AH (
00:08:49
):
Well, I went on to the University of Michigan. [Cough] Excuse me. And there I worked under
my great mentor, Dr. William D. Revelli, who was conductor of bands at the University of
Michigan for a total of 35 years, had certainly what was considered at the time, the finest
university symphonic band, probably in the world. And I had a privilege to get into that


8
Arthur Himmelberger

organization as a freshman, which freshmen typically were not allowed into that organization.
You had to pay your dues--.
JS (
00:09:25
):
Earn your way in, yeah.
AH (
00:09:26
):
Earn your way in. But somehow the stars lined up. And I was in as a freshman. Served four
years, ultimately was the percussion section leader of the symphony band and of the University
of Michigan marching band, played in two Rose Bowls. Was there back in the days when Woody
Hayes and Bo Schembechler were knocking heads together. And we took a European tour with a
symphony band. It was a 40 day tour of Europe, performed in all sorts of European countries to
make the list would be pointless. Then I graduated from the University of Michigan, but I got
caught up in the Vietnam draft. [Affirmative] The lottery where you had four years to complete
your degree with a deferment, but when those four years were up, it was all about your birthday.
JS (
00:10:36
):
You had a low number?
AH (
00:10:37
):
And I had a low number, so I was gonna go right in. So I figured I would go in on my terms and
not necessarily on anyone else's terms. So, I auditioned for the United States marine band in
Washington, the United States army field band in Washington, and the band at West Point. And
at the time I selected the United States army field band. I had won all three auditions, but I
decided to go with the field band because they were the official touring band of the army, and I


9
Arthur Himmelberger

wanted to see the country. And so for the next three and a half years, I performed in every state
in the union.
JS (
00:11:27
):
But you were always stateside, you were never--?
AH (
00:11:28
):
Always stateside.
JS (
00:11:30
):
Great. Yeah.
AH (
00:11:31
):
During that period of time, then it was tradition for the young people that served three and a half
years or three years to do one hitch and out, you know, that was kind of the--.
JS (
00:11:48
):
Expectation?
AH (
00:11:48
):
The pressure that you had from your peers. [Affirmative] you know you do your hitch and you
get out. So I got out and then I taught in Littlestown, Pennsylvania at the Maple Avenue middle
school. And there, we took a middle school band and an elementary school band. And that was--
I had heard a recording of their concert the year prior, and I could not recognize one melody.
JS (
00:12:29
):


10
Arthur Himmelberger

[Laugh] Oh that's not good.
AH (
00:12:31
):
And the band master at the time of that concert was actually relieved from his responsibilities.
And I think at the time I understood he was one of five or six teachers in the state of
Pennsylvania that were relieved for incompetency. That did not happen often.
GN (
00:12:55
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:12:57
):
Let me back up just a tiny bit, when you were at the University of Michigan as a music major.
AH (
00:13:02
):
Yes.
JS (
00:13:02
):
Did you also get certification as a music teacher? Did, was that a requirement?
AH (
00:13:07
):
Oh, absolutely. Yes.
JS (
00:13:08
):
It did. It was.
AH (
00:13:09
):


11
Arthur Himmelberger

And as a matter of fact, interesting story going back to Michigan is my father and I only had
enough money to pay for two years of schooling. [Affirmative] And so when I got finished with
my second year, I went into my mentor and, who was a very difficult man. And I told him I'm
going home and I probably will never return because I've run out of money. And so he just
chewed me out.
JS (
00:13:48
):
[Laugh] Interesting way of showing sympathy.
GN (
00:13:49
):
Like it was your fault.
AH (
00:13:51
):
Yes, it was my fault. He made it very clear that it was my fault that I should have gone to a state
school in Pennsylvania where the same amount of money would've afforded four years of
education. But I told him, I came to study with you. And after he had fun chewing me out he
opened up his desk drawer and he pulled out, filled out forms that-- I didn't tell him or anybody
that I was going home for good. But he had decided that he was going to offer me a graduate
fellowship
JS (
00:14:32
):
As a junior.
AH (
00:14:33
):
As a junior.


12
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
00:14:34
):
Wow.
AH (
00:14:36
):
So, I was the youngest at the age of 19. I was the youngest member on the faculty and staff of the
school of music at the university.
JS (
00:14:45
):
Wow.
AH (
00:14:45
):
So, he paid for my last two years of education. He wrote me a, there was a check that he gave me
from the University of Michigan band alumni association for $500. And in 1970--.
JS (
00:15:03
):
That was your semester's tuition.
AH (
00:15:05
):
That was like $5,000 today. And he said, don't worry, there'll be more coming from where that
came from.
JS (
00:15:13
):
Wow.
AH (
00:15:13
):
So, I owe my whole career to him for getting me through the four years at Michigan.


13
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
00:15:22
):
Of course, now you realize all that he got, because you're doing the same thing for others.
AH (
00:15:28
):
I'm doing the same thing for others, yes.
JS (
00:15:29
):
You realize the satisfactions that accrued to him--.
AH (
00:15:33
):
Exactly.
JS (
00:15:33
):
From his generosity.
AH (
00:15:34
):
Exactly. He wrote me a beautiful letter of recommendation to eventually to get jobs. And I
actually use his letter as my format for writing--.
JS (
00:15:47
):
Oh, when you do now [laugh].
AH (
00:15:48
):
For letters that I write for students today. So I just passed--.
GN (
00:15:51
):


14
Arthur Himmelberger

He should've copyrighted it [laugh].
AH (
00:15:52
):
Yeah, he should have copyrighted it, but he didn't. So I used that as my template for
recommendations for students today.
JS (
00:16:00
):
I'm sorry. I hope I didn't want to get you off track.
AH (
00:16:02
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:16:02
):
You said that you were teaching in the elementary school and the middle school.
AH (
00:16:06
):
Yes.
JS (
00:16:07
):
And I was wondering if at that time--.
GN (
00:16:09
):
You had a right to do it.
AH (
00:16:11
):
Yeah.


15
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
00:16:11
):
There was accreditation?
AH (
00:16:14
):
So yes, I was accredited and have teachers certification and all that. But at Maple Avenue we
took a band that couldn't play at tune and in less than a year, I had that band playing parades,
including the elementary band, we played parades. We put a base drum on a wagon and kids
[laugh] would pull the base drum down the street. But that middle school band was actually
beating high school bands in parade competition by the end of that year. But I was aggressive. I
think I spent one year at the little school or Littlestown school, but I wanted a high school. So
then I went on to Lancaster county in Pennsylvania where from 1976 to 1978, I started
developing a high school band and took them to Atlanta, Georgia in all kinds of competition
against thirty-three bands and out of the thirty-three bands-- that was the Dogwood festival in
Atlanta. And we out of the thirty-three bands, we ended up being the grand champion.
JS (
00:17:46
):
And you had had this group only two years?
AH (
00:17:48
):
Two years. Yes.
JS (
00:17:49
):
Oh my gosh.
AH (
00:17:49
):


16
Arthur Himmelberger

Yeah. So after that I wanted-- that was in a farm community where I didn't have access to private
music teachers. And then the job at Governor Mifflin high school opened up. And one night
when I was rehearsing the Cocalico band in Lancaster county there's a gentleman sitting in the
back of the rehearsal hall, who I knew, but I hadn't seen him in many years. And he was the
supervisor of music at Governor Mifflin school district in Shillington Pennsylvania, which is a
school that had a great history of supporting the performing arts. [Coughs] Excuse me, I'm going
to put a lozenge in my throat. If I may.
JS (
00:18:44
):
I think I have an unopened, oh, here a bottle of water for you.
AH (
00:18:53
):
So at Governor Mifflin, I was there from 1978 to 1983 and we built that band up to become an
Orange Bowl band. We performed in the Orange Bowl parade and played in the competition
called the great bands of the Orange Bowl down in-- we took it an 11 day tour of Florida. We
went to the Knoxville world's fair and we were the Pennsylvania state representatives for the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to the Knoxville world's fair. Played parades through the park,
played concerts.
GN (
00:19:46
):
Let me ask this just about the level school you're talking about the grade school, the high school,
the middle school, how do the students react? Do they try to get into the band? Do they come
regularly? Do they miss attendance? Are they in love with the sport? I mean how do you identify
their attitude towards it?


17
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:20:07
):
I think what develops a band program is the connect between--.
GN (
00:20:17
):
The music--.
AH (
00:20:18
):
Champagnat and his students.
GN (
00:20:20
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:20:21
):
Okay.
JS (
00:20:22
):
It's all about the relationships.
AH (
00:20:23
):
It's all about relationships. At, when I was at Littlestown, the middle school, I taught private
lessons to every student in the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth grades. And I saw that
every student got a private lesson for thirty minutes, at least once every three weeks.
JS (
00:20:49
):
Oh, wow.


18
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:20:50
):
And I did that through nights, evenings after school was over, I did it by teaching private lessons
all day, Saturday, and all day Sunday. And I had this schedule where a student would get a
private lesson. And so he developed this student teacher relationship. Now when you get to a
larger program where you have more instructors, then you have to develop the team of
instructors and say this is the way we're going to do it. We're going to work together.
JS (
00:21:23
):
These are our values.
AH (
00:21:25
):
For example, I was a percussionist by craft. So I went around to all the schools, the elementary
schools, the middle schools, the high school, and taught private percussion to everybody. And we
had a brass specialist who did it to all the brass, a woodwind specialist, a string specialist. And
we just drove around in our cars and went to all the schools. And then we would be back at our
homeschool to, you know, do the larger rehearsals with the ensembles that were assigned.
GN (
00:22:03
):
Good. We'll come back to this again later, but I just wanted to see how it was.
AH (
00:22:07
):
And so after developing the program at Mifflin, one day I got a telephone call from West Point.
And at this time, from when I was at--.
GN (
00:22:27
):


19
Arthur Himmelberger

About '83 or something like that.
AH (
00:22:28
):
Yeah, from '75 to '83 when I did the middle school, the first high school, the second high school
teachers were not being paid well, I don't know if you--.
JS (
00:22:45
):
My first salary was $9,000.
AH (
00:22:47
):
Okay. Alright. So my first salary at Littlestown was 8,500. So you and I--.
JS (
00:22:56
):
We're about the same age.
AH (
00:22:57
):
Yes. So I went in at Governor Mifflin, I went into the superintendent and I said, look, I said,
here, I have developed for you a nationally recognized championship band. And over here, we
have the football coach who has developed a losing football team. And I know that he's being
paid this much and I want to be paid the same. And I had a lot of band parents who were on the
school board.
AH (
00:23:33
):
And I said, all you have to do is go into that school board and ask them or tell them what you're
thinking, and this can happen. And he sat across the desk and he laughed at me and he says, they


20
Arthur Himmelberger

will never buy that. And I said, well, do what you can, because I've just received an offer from
West Point to go there to-- with a specific purpose of designing halftime shows for army
football. And from eight five, or around by then, I was maybe around ten or eleven, but West
Point had offered me fifteen.
GN (
00:24:32
):
Oh wow.
AH (
00:24:32
):
Plus housing on post.
JS (
00:24:34
):
On a beautiful post.
AH (
00:24:35
):
On a beautiful post, beautiful quarters. And so I made the move and my daughter ended up living
almost her entire life--.
JS (
00:24:46
):
Wow.
AH (
00:24:48
):
On the academy, you know. And ultimately she became a cadet, so.
JS (
00:24:51
):
Oh, I didn't know that.


21
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:24:52
):
Yeah. So from 1983 to 2002, I was a member of the West Point band.
GN (
00:25:05
):
Now the West Point band. Are they cadets?
AH (
00:25:08
):
Oh, no.
GN (
00:25:09
):
Okay. So--.
JS (
00:25:09
):
They're all professional musicians.
GN (
00:25:13
):
Oh, okay.
AH (
00:25:13
):
They all have bachelors, masters, and doctorates from the finest music conservatories in the
country.
GN (
00:25:21
):
Is that true of most college bands?
AH (
00:25:24
):


22
Arthur Himmelberger

Oh no, that's just true of the West Point band, the air force academy band--.
GN (
00:25:28
):
And the Navy.
AH (
00:25:29
):
And the Navy. Yeah.
JS (
00:25:34
):
So Dennis Murray, I understand lured you away.
AH (
00:25:38
):
So while I was at West Point, I, this was January of, 1986, actually it might have been December
of--.
GN (
00:25:53
):
'85.
AH (
00:25:53
):
'85. I got a telephone call from DorothyAnn Davis and she said, hello, is this Art Himmelberger?
I said, yes, it is. She introduced herself. And she says, I'm director of the music program at
Marist college. Well, at the time Dorothy had about fifteen students and several faculty members
singing in her choir, but there was no band.
GN (
00:26:25
):
Right.


23
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:26:27
):
And--.
GN (
00:26:28
):
Was her husband out at West Point?
AH (
00:26:30
):
Her husband was the organist at the West Point chapel. Yeah. So how she got my name was
through, [cough] excuse me. Colonel William Schempf.
JS (
00:26:51
):
Oh, Ruthanne's father.
AH (
00:26:52
):
Ruthanne's father.
JS (
00:26:54
):
Oh my gosh.
AH (
00:26:55
):
Who had adjudicated my high school band as a, when we were competing for--.
JS (
00:27:02
):
Wow.
AH (
00:27:04
):


24
Arthur Himmelberger

And Colonel Schempf knew that I was at West Point and I guess originally DorothyAnn called
up Colonel Schempf to see if he would consider starting a band program here. But by that time,
Colonel Schempf had Parkinson's and I'm sure that he was all band out. And I have a funny
feeling knowing his demeanor, he probably said, DorothyAnn, you gotta be outta your mind
[laugh].
AH (
00:27:39
):
But he said, I do know someone who is probably crazy enough to follow up with your request.
JS (
00:27:57
):
And also to launch really a second career.
AH (
00:28:03
):
It was a career that dovetailed. Yeah. I was working at West Point by day and Marist by night.
JS (
00:28:13
):
Wow.
AH (
00:28:13
):
And that happened from basically 1986 up until 2002.
GN (
00:28:21
):
Really?
AH (
00:28:23
):
Where I was doing both jobs.


25
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
00:28:26
):
Wow. And you were full time here at that time?
AH (
00:28:30
):
No, I was working at, I did this as an adjunct. I built the program as an adjunct.
JS (
00:28:36
):
Oh my gosh. Wow.
AH (
00:28:38
):
So I would work at West Point by day and drive up here by night, and as an adjunct. Well going
back to that, how Dennis got ahold of me and talked to me. DorothyAnn explained about Dennis
Murray and how he wanted to have a band. [Pause] Let me correct myself. She left me under the
impression in that telephone conversation that there was a band [laugh].
AH (
00:29:19
):
And I thought that over the, after the first semester because this was December of '85, there was
a basketball game in Madison Square Garden sometime in the middle of January. And that they
wanted somebody to take the band [laugh] to Madison square garden because Rik Smits was
playing basketball at the time.
GN (
00:29:52
):
Oh yeah.
AH (
00:29:56
):


26
Arthur Himmelberger

And so she said, come to the chapel. Back up, DorothyAnn wanted me to meet Dennis Murray.
And I went and sat down with Dennis and he said to me, would you consider being our band
director? Now, he didn't say one way or another, if there was, or wasn't a band [laughs].
JS (
00:30:27
):
But why would you even question, you would assume that.
GN (
00:30:30
):
He knew [laugh].
AH (
00:30:31
):
Yeah. So he said to me, I don't know how I can pay you. I said, don't worry about pay. Let's see
if we can get something--.
GN (
00:30:46
):
Is there an interest here?
AH (
00:30:48
):
Going. So I came up to the chapel on a Thursday night thinking that I was going to just freshen
up the band and take them down to Madison Square Garden on Saturday. And on that Thursday,
two students showed up [laugh].
AH (
00:31:10
):
I couldn't find the light switches in the chapel. It was dark.
GN (
00:31:13
):


27
Arthur Himmelberger

Yeah.
AH (
00:31:13
):
Because light switches are--.
GN (
00:31:14
):
I know in the back, yes.
AH (
00:31:16
):
Okay. And finally, you know, my night vision kicked in and I was able to feel my way around
the circular pews. And I finally found lights, switches turn 'em on. And two students were there
with trumpets and one of them was Paul Stento, Paul Stento. I don't remember the name of the
other student, but Paul Stento has been a supporter ever since.
JS (
00:31:51
):
Oh wow.
AH (
00:31:51
):
Actually one of the practice rooms in our new building is--.
JS (
00:31:58
):
Oh, nice.
AH (
00:31:59
):
Which means that he had to give $10,000 toward the building to get his name on a practice room.
So I met with these two students. I said, can you do something with these horns? And so we


28
Arthur Himmelberger

worked some cheers out dah, dah, dah, dah, dah [imitation of trumpet sounds] that was our first
rehearsal. And on Saturday I packed them up.
JS (
00:32:31
):
Two horns?
AH (
00:32:32
):
Two horns plus a drum set [laugh].
AH (
00:32:35
):
And we went to Madison Square Garden.
JS (
00:32:37
):
Oh my gosh. What a great story, Art.
AH (
00:32:41
):
Yes. And, so we got through the night when, you know, when the cheerleaders would go out on
the floor, I'd do a little shuffle with the drums [laugh], you know, and then shuffle them back
again. And so when we got home and it was snowing, I could have done one of two things: I
could have taken both of them and thrown them out into a snow bank and said goodbye.
GN (
00:33:12
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:33:13
):
Or I could have said--.


29
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
00:33:15
):
This is a start.
AH (
00:33:16
):
This is a start. Let's see what we can do. And they said, well, we know a few other students that
play instruments. And because Rik Smits was playing basketball, there were some curious
members of the West Point band that wanted to see Rik Smits play.
GN (
00:33:34
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:33:35
):
Because his reputation had already started. And so I get some of my buddies to come up from
West Point, augment the students and little by little, we put together a basketball pep band. And
that was the beginning.
JS (
00:33:54
):
Wow. I'm very glad we got this story.
GN (
00:33:57
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:33:58
):
For the archives.
AH (
00:33:59
):


30
Arthur Himmelberger

Yeah. It's good.
GN (
00:34:04
):
It's too good to be true [laugh].
AH (
00:34:06
):
Oh yeah.
JS (
00:34:07
):
But you know, it's a Marist story, isn't it?
AH (
00:34:10
):
It is. And, and the fact that then see, that was at the time when, when Dennis said he didn't know
how he was going to pay me. That was still the period of time when, in order to meet payroll, the
college was taking loans out from a bank.
GN (
00:34:27
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:34:28
):
Do you remember that period of time?
GN (
00:34:30
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:34:31
):


31
Arthur Himmelberger

And so that's why Dennis said, I don't know how I can pay you.
GN (
00:34:34
):
We took no increase in salary that year. And, go ahead.
AH (
00:34:39
):
Yeah. So from that too, and then building--what's interesting is the rehearsal facilities, we
rehearsed in the chapel and then there was father Luke.
JS (
00:34:59
):
Oh yeah. Luke McCann.
AH (
00:35:00
):
Okay. And father Luke realized what was happening on a Thursday night in his chapel.
GN (
00:35:07
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:35:07
):
And he said, no, no, no, we can't have this because the band was getting bigger. We actually
[pause] kind of grew out of the chapel. But the reason we grew out of the chapel is father Luke
didn't want the band rehearsing there anymore because he said the chapel's for student
meditation.
GN (
00:35:33
):
Yeah.


32
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:35:33
):
And not for a band to be making noise. And Gene Doris was the athletic director. Okay. And
Gene wanted to have this band as a matter of fact, Gene's the one that bought us those Waldo
polo shirts. They had the-- do you remember they had the red and white stripes.
GN (
00:35:58
):
Uhhuh. Yeah.
AH (
00:35:59
):
Okay. Gene purchased those for us. And he said, you can rehearse over here in the McCann
center. And he said, now the only place that I have for you to rehearse is the handball court.
Think of the acoustics--.
JS (
00:36:21
):
Acoustics there.
AH (
00:36:22
):
In a handball court. And we couldn't take any of the percussion equipment through the door
because the doors were real little.
GN (
00:36:32
):
Yeah play racket ball.
AH (
00:36:33
):
Right.


33
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
00:36:34
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:36:35
):
So we put the drummers out in the hallway [laugh] and we had the instrumentalist--.
GN (
00:36:41
):
Tell me how do you go from the two? What was the next meeting after that garden experience
did you--?
AH (
00:36:48
):
Might have had three or four students and then three or four guys that came up with me from
West Point. So we went to like seven or eight.
GN (
00:36:57
):
Yeah. There's a story only ( ). But there are a number of students who studied music in high
school and they had instruments. What they needed was a call, you know, and you eventually
became the call for them to come out of their rooms and to join you.
AH (
00:37:15
):
Right.
GN (
00:37:15
):
But it didn't happen the next day. It took a little while for that all to go through.
AH (
00:37:20
):


34
Arthur Himmelberger

It did. And DorothyAnn helped a little bit because, now DorothyAnn was very protective of her
music area.
GN (
00:37:30
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:37:31
):
And she's a Westminster choir college graduate. And the only thing that meant music to her was
choral music and orchestral music. And that band was like a naughty stepchild [laugh].
GN (
00:37:52
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:37:52
):
And so there was some confusion there with how she wanted to approach concert literature as
compared to athletic pep band literature. Okay. And she did bring in, I'm trying to remember a
name--.
GN (
00:38:23
):
In music?
AH (
00:38:25
):
It was a trumpet player.
GN (
00:38:27
):
Oh.


35
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:38:28
):
To develop chamber winds. But all the kids wanted to do was play in pep band. They didn't want
to get into chamber winds. So that was short lived and the individual, and I wish I could
remember his name went away and that fizzed out. And so we develop basketball, pep band,
basketball, pep band, basketball, pep band, and more guys wanted to come up and see Rik Smits
play.
JS (
00:39:03
):
From West Point?
AH (
00:39:04
):
From West Point. So the band got bigger and one day I said, you know, we're big enough that we
could actually play a concert. And so we started putting some concert literature together and the
first concert we ever played was in the performing arts room--.
JS (
00:39:31
):
At the student center. What's now the Murray student center.
AH (
00:39:34
):
Yes. And there was almost enough room in that room to put the band much less [laugh] anybody
to come and see it.
GN (
00:39:45
):
Yeah. Yeah.


36
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:39:47
):
But we did set up that room and then DorothyAnn left, she retired.
GN (
00:39:54
):
Yes.
AH (
00:39:55
):
And Mark Lawlor came in.
JS (
00:39:57
):
Oh right, Mark Lawlor.
AH (
00:39:59
):
And it just so happens that Mark Lawlor grew up in the town where I had developed the high
school band that--.
JS (
00:40:10
):
Oh, wow.
AH (
00:40:10
):
Was of national recognition. Now, Mark, didn't go to that school. He went to a Catholic high
school in the area. But when I would be rehearsing, Mark was an undergraduate student at
Westminster [affirmative]. And when I was holding summer band camp, there's always this guy
that was sitting by a tree taking notes. And I was thinking, who in the world is this? It's
observing our secrets. [Laugh] Now we're developing this band. And I went over and talked to


37
Arthur Himmelberger

him. It was Mark Lawlor. So from the time that he was an undergrad at Westminster, I knew
Mark.
GN (
00:40:55
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:40:55
):
And so I'm here and Mark comes in says, oh my gosh. We're here together. And DorothyAnn
never gave me any money to--.
JS (
00:41:09
):
To develop.
AH (
00:41:11
):
To develop. I mean she used whatever music budget was. It was for choral music period. And
when Mark came, Mark said, we're going to split the music budget 50/50, and you can develop
the instrumental with half of it and I'll develop the choral with half of it.
JS (
00:41:31
):
Wow.
AH (
00:41:33
):
So we grew together and then I started teaching music history courses.
GN (
00:41:45
):


38
Arthur Himmelberger

Yeah. Let's talk about the academic aspect of this. When did you get credit for doing any of this?
I mean academic credit, the students, could they take a course?
AH (
00:41:54
):
Oh, they could. They could back even when DorothyAnn was here,
GN (
00:41:59
):
Music but not in band.
AH (
00:42:00
):
Not in band. No, because there was no band.
GN (
00:42:03
):
Oh, right.
AH (
00:42:04
):
But finally, it was, I think when Mark came in that we started establishing courses.
GN (
00:42:15
):
It's kind of hard to get that through some of those academic--.
AH (
00:42:18
):
Right.
GN (
00:42:19
):
Programs.


39
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:42:20
):
Right.
GN (
00:42:20
):
I've been there.
AH (
00:42:21
):
Yes. So Mark helped me set up a symphonic band course, a brass ensemble, a woodwind
ensemble, a percussion ensemble. Then I was teaching like intro to Western music, and we
started introducing hand bells.
JS (
00:42:50
):
Oh right. That's right.
AH (
00:42:52
):
Okay. So because I had conducted the handball choir at the West Point chapel and developed--
so I knew what I was doing with handballs. So I was doing symphonic band as a course, brass
ensemble as a course, woodwind ensemble as a course, percussion ensemble as a course, intro to
music, and hand bells. Six individual courses I was teaching as an adjunct.
JS (
00:43:20
):
Oh my gosh.
AH (
00:43:21
):
And they were paying me for two.


40
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
00:43:25
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:43:27
):
Wow. That's commitment.
GN (
00:43:31
):
Number of students in a-- ten, fifteen in a course?
AH (
00:43:35
):
Well the band built up to about maybe thirty students, thirty-five students, something like that.
GN (
00:43:43
):
Okay.
AH (
00:43:44
):
And half of them would've been brass players [affirmative]. So they became the brass ensemble.
[Affirmative] The woodwind players would be the woodwind ensemble, percussionists would
start developing the percussion ensemble. Then just college wide they could take intro to music--
.
JS (
00:44:04
):
And we had a requirement--.
AH (
00:44:06
):


41
Arthur Himmelberger

There was a music requirement. Yes. In the core. And then with hand bells I started extracting
members of the, of the singers. Yes. So then Mark left and another thing that started helping us
build was an every other year trip to Disney world. That was crucial. You joined the band, you
joined the choir, and guess what, every two years we're going to go to Disney, whoopee, you
know and that helped us.
GN (
00:44:50
):
Would you perform at Disney?
AH (
00:44:52
):
Yes. Yes. We performed in concerts at Disney.
GN (
00:44:57
):
In the instrument horn to strings, students pay their own way for the instrument?
AH (
00:45:06
):
Okay. That's a very good question. That's what Dennis thought would happen. [Laugh] but that's
not-- when you want to fill out an organization, you have to have instruments that are more
expensive than students can afford. [Affirmative] You know, you need your base clarinets, you
need your bassoons, you need your oboes, you need your tubas, you need a full array of-- so I
was with the money that I ended up having half of the music budget, I started buying second
hand instruments [affirmative] and we still are using some of them today. But we filled out the
instrumentation and little by little, we went from thirty-five to forty to forty-five to fifty year by
year. I think probably in 2007, 2008, we might have reached a peak where we were up to 120 in
the band.


42
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
00:46:14
):
Wow.
AH (
00:46:14
):
Yes.
JS (
00:46:16
):
So Art, let me ask about when you mentioned instruments, like the bassoon, for example.
AH (
00:46:20
):
Yes.
JS (
00:46:21
):
Did you have to teach some brass players now to play the bassoon?
AH (
00:46:26
):
No, we had--.
JS (
00:46:27
):
They came with that skill?
AH (
00:46:27
):
They came in, to that school, skill.
JS (
00:46:30
):
Wow.


43
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:46:30
):
And they still do today.
JS (
00:46:32
):
Wow.
AH (
00:46:32
):
Yeah. So we were working on second hand instruments now by this time Mark had gone on to
Oklahoma State and Laura Russell became director of the music program. And Laura, when she
came in, she went back into the old ways of consuming the entire budget for choral and
orchestral and nothing for the band. And that became very frustrating to me. [Affirmative] And
you were here when Laurel, Laura was here. And she, I forget what year she started, but she
ended basically the week of 9/11. She was very capable as long as it was classical or romantic or
baroque music, but she wanted nothing to do with popular music. [Affirmative] And the kids
were getting turned off.
JS (
00:47:52
):
Happened again with Janet Davis.
AH (
00:47:54
):
Yes. Yes.
JS (
00:47:55
):
Same thing.


44
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:47:55
):
Yes. And the kids were getting turned off, so they were dropping like flies and the Sirens wanted
to break away from the choir. And so, and I kept on saying to her, because I was running a band
camp because there was that point in time, where it was I don't remember, where we said, not
only can we play concerts, but we can put on shows, halftime shows at football games. And so in
order to do that, I had to bring in the band students basically a week early [affirmative] so they
can learn that show because once the academic year begins, you don't have that kind of time to
teach a show.
JS (
00:48:47
):
But it also, that was a time for that week. They really came together as--.
AH (
00:48:51
):
Bonded. Yes.
JS (
00:48:53
):
Yeah. And singers eventually did the same thing.
AH (
00:48:55
):
Yes. I said to Laur, you really ought to have a choral camp. So just in case choral music is
needed in the beginning of the semester, you're prepared. And she just left me off. She says, oh,
we don't need anything like that you know. Well, low and behold, 9/11 comes along beginning of
the semester. And we had alumni that went down in the buildings.
GN (
00:49:30
):


45
Arthur Himmelberger

Yes. Yeah.
AH (
00:49:31
):
And, that is one of memorial services. Wanted a choir. And the choir wasn't ready.
GN (
00:49:42
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:49:43
):
And at the same time, as that occurred, Laura was pressing Dennis to create a music major.
[Affirmative] And she wrote a letter to Dennis almost at the same time as her failure for 9/11,
stating that if certain things don't fall in line toward a music major [affirmative] I will be leaving
at the end of this year.
GN (
00:50:26
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:50:29
):
And then she wrote a sentence, because I saw the letter, or if you wish me to go before that.
GN (
00:50:37
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:50:38
):
Well, you don't give Dennis Murray an ultimatum.


46
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
00:50:40
):
Yeah [laugh].
AH (
00:50:41
):
Okay. And so I'm at my desk at West Point and I get this phone call in the morning and it said,
Art, this is Dennis Murray. I need to see at 1:30 in my office [laugh]. I said, Dennis, you don't
understand, I'm in the army now. You know, I have duties up through the afternoon. Then I come
up there at night. He says, I have to see at 1:30. So I,--.
JS (
00:51:19
):
This is before Zoom.
AH (
00:51:21
):
This is before Zoom [laugh]. So, I talked to some of my buddies. I said, can you cover my duty
here? Can you cover my duty there?
GN (
00:51:33
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:51:34
):
And I hopped in the car and came up and saw him at 1:30 and he laid this letter in front of me
and he says, read that. And he said, it looks like a letter of resignation--.
GN (
00:51:47
):
Ahead of time.


47
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:51:48
):
For me, does it look like a letter of resignation to you? I said, well, as you read it, it does, he
says, I'm accepting it as a letter of resignation. He says, now, can you run the music program?
JS (
00:52:04
):
Starting now.
AH (
00:52:05
):
Starting now. Until I can find somebody that will. And I said to him, Dennis, I can do anything.
And so then, and it, it was getting close to my possible retirement time with the army, so about, I
did this for about nine months. And then I said, you know, I'm just going to throw my hat in the
ring. And I went up and saw him and I gave him some kind of letter of application. And he says,
I've been waiting for this [laugh].
GN (
00:52:49
):
Oh yeah.
AH (
00:52:50
):
And--.
JS (
00:52:52
):
How validating that is.
AH (
00:52:53
):


48
Arthur Himmelberger

Well, that's what he said. He says, I've been waiting for this. And then I retired from the army
and came up here full time. And then that's when things we could really engage. And you know,
we took it up to-- I mean, Laura left as she did. And then Janet Davis, and then, who had the
same mindset.
JS (
00:53:17
):
Same.
AH (
00:53:20
):
And then after Janet Davis, well actually before Janet Davis, it was Vicki Masters.
JS (
00:53:26
):
Oh, right.
AH (
00:53:28
):
Yes. Who was an adjunct [affirmative] okay. But I became the full-time faculty member in the
music department and it shifted from Laura Russell to me. So that in order-- then I was running
the choir. I ran the choir. I did the first Night on Broadway.
JS (
00:53:53
):
Oh wow.
AH (
00:53:54
):
I invented Night on Broadway so that the kids could sing--.
JS (
00:53:57
):


49
Arthur Himmelberger

The kids loved that.
AH (
00:53:57
):
Popular music. Okay. As a matter of fact, I remember in that first one, we did it in the Cabaret
[affirmative] and Dennis and Marilyn came [affirmative] and I remember one piece we did was
selections from Oklahoma. But that was like a breath of fresh air. The Sirens came back into the
choir, kids that had dropped--.
JS (
00:54:21
):
Kids were so enthusiastic.
AH (
00:54:22
):
They came back yes. But then, and I also did the first Love in the Afternoon and I had to do
parents weekend jumping back and forth from choir to band choir to band.
JS (
00:54:42
):
And that comes very early in the year.
AH (
00:54:45
):
Yes. That was the year of 9/11. And, there's still a video of it, me going up in the stage, coming
down and trying to keep everything together. But, and Mike Napolitano was a student at the
time.
JS (
00:55:02
):
Yeah.


50
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:55:02
):
So he remembers all that. That's when he jumped into being part--.
JS (
00:55:10
):
Operations manager?
AH (
00:55:11
):
Well, no student.
JS (
00:55:14
):
Oh, okay.
AH (
00:55:15
):
Four years in the band and four years in the choir. Ultimately his first job was on Marist was
with financial aid.
JS (
00:55:24
):
Oh .
AH (
00:55:25
):
Yeah. But I knew that I had to reel him out of financial aid and into music. So after I did the
choir, then it was Vicki Masters, because I said to Dennis, if you don't get me some help, you'll
carry me out in a box. Those are my words to him. And so, we got adjunct Vicky Masters--.
GN (
00:55:53
):


51
Arthur Himmelberger

I'm surprised you were able to keep on pretty much as a solo operation. I mean, most faculty are
involved in support systems zone. And so you talk to other faculty members and so on you come
to me, you have luncheons and all this kind of stuff, you're kind of running an independent,
important, significant part of this field of the campus.
AH (
00:56:17
):
Right.
GN (
00:56:18
):
But you're alone.
AH (
00:56:19
):
I was alone.
GN (
00:56:20
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:56:20
):
And it was a student attention intensive part.
AH (
00:56:25
):
Yes. Oh, I was-- when I was doing full time at West Point and full time here for that from 9/11
up and through November of 2002. So how long is that?
JS (
00:56:48
):
I know it's 9/11 is 2001. So a year and two months.


52
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:56:52
):
A year and two months I was-- and I had to get signed off by the superintendent at West Point to
have another full time job. And it was written out as being my transitional job into civilian life.
And so I got that signature from the superintendent making it possible for me to do full-time
work for a year and two months there and here. So I was waking up at four o'clock in the
morning, driving into West Point, marching cadets to breakfast [affirmative], doing all my
duties, doing lunch formation, rehearsals at West Point. And then I'd leave West Point at about
two o'clock in the afternoon. I'd be up here by three--.
GN (
00:57:46
):
Two different worlds [laugh].
AH (
00:57:49
):
And I would leave here at midnight.
GN (
00:57:52
):
Oh God.
AH (
00:57:52
):
And I'd be asleep at one. Yeah. And I'd get up at four.
JS (
00:57:56
):
And you were 50 years old?
AH (
00:57:58
):


53
Arthur Himmelberger

Yes. Well, not quite. Yeah. I was, I was 50, 50 years old and probably, I was 52 or 53. Yeah.
And, and I was going on three and a half, four hours sleep for a year and two months in order to
keep on pushing this.
GN (
00:58:20
):
And even weekends are involved.
AH (
00:58:23
):
The weekends are involved here and there.
JS (
00:58:25
):
Performance. Yeah.
AH (
00:58:26
):
Both places.
GN (
00:58:27
):
Yeah.
AH (
00:58:28
):
So I, it was really a-- you know, it was a juggling of two schedules. And so, I pulled it off. I
couldn't do that today [laugh].
GN (
00:58:40
):
How, why not [laugh]?


54
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
00:58:42
):
So then the program-- I let me just read here a little bit, where I aggressively built and conducted
a nationally recognized band organization because we did. This organization is recognized
nationally. We represent ourselves at Midwest band and orchestra clinic out in Chicago every
year. The nation knows about music program at Marist college. [Affirmative] They realize that
it's no music majors, but it is a flourishing program. We're actually doing the permanent search
for director of bands right now. And even after this COVID period, we have approximately 40
applications.
GN (
00:59:39
):
Really?
AH (
00:59:39
):
Which is something that probably I should not be presenting, but--.
JS (
00:59:43
):
Wonderful.
AH (
00:59:44
):
So basically, we aggressively built and conducted a nationally recognized band organization that
by now has performed in fifteen of our fifty United States. We performed in Washington, D.C.,
In Puerto Rico, notably the band has performed in giant stadium Meadowlands, New Jersey. We
performed in Michie stadium at West Point. We performed in not the New York St. Patrick's day
parade, but we played in other St. Patrick's day parades. We performed in Disney world, the New
England collegiate marching band festival, the collegiate marching band festival in Allentown,


55
Arthur Himmelberger

Pennsylvania, which is a major, major event and the 2017 presidential inaugural parade in
Washington D.C. Now we took a lot of heat for that.
JS (
01:00:44
):
Yeah I remember.
AH (
01:00:46
):
But nonetheless, I personally had played three presidential inaugural parades prior to--.
GN (
01:00:54
):
I see.
AH (
01:00:55
):
And I knew what that experience was like.
GN (
01:00:57
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:00:58
):
And I said to myself, I want my students to have that experience. I said, I don't care if--.
JS (
01:01:03
):
Who it is.
AH (
01:01:06
):


56
Arthur Himmelberger

I didn't care if it was Trump, Clinton, or Mickey Mouse [laugh]. We're going to play that parade.
And by golly, we did. We've supported Marist athletics for, well, over thirty years in NCAA
division, one football and basketball games. We've been to the WNCAA tournaments
[affirmative]. We've been to the WNIT we've been to the NIT, The MAC championships, and the
back when they were part of the, was it Northeast conference? NEC [affirmative] okay. We had
regional national televised basketball opportunities as well as events at Madison Square Garden.
And here's interesting statement an ESPN columnist, Jeff Shelman, wrote about the Marist band
in St. Paul, Minnesota. This isn't a mid-major band. This is a major, major outfit. So I thought
that was pretty cool. The band director, when we went to Iowa-- we develop over the ten years
that we've gone to tournaments. We developed the system to be sure that we had the best thirty-
piece band, because you can only take thirty members--.
GN (
01:02:35
):
Oh, okay.
AH (
01:02:36
):
To an NCAA tournament. And I came up with a formula that no matter what, we were going to
have the best band on the floor, there's always four bands. There's two bands for the first game
and two bands for the second game.
AH (
01:02:52
):
And towards the end, it did them-- Ohio State, Iowa State. It didn't matter, Stanford. We always
had the best band in the house because of the formula of how many players on each instrument I
would use and how well rehearsed we would be to get ready to go to the tournament. The band


57
Arthur Himmelberger

director at Iowa, University of Iowa after the game and after newspaper clippings said that the
Marist band had put more spirit into their huge arena than the Iowa band put in there in the last
25 years [laugh].
JS (
01:03:31
):
Wow. Give us a sense of scale, you would be drawing from an undergraduate population of no
more than 4,000 [affirmative]. How many would your competitors be drawing from?
AH (
01:03:45
):
25, 30,000.
JS (
01:03:47
):
Incredible.
AH (
01:03:48
):
Yeah. So the band director at Iowa after realizing that his band had been put down, if you could
call it a competition and every time you play it is a competition, but he was quoted in a
newspaper saying, "I didn't expect this." [Affirmative] He didn't expect that Marist would be
bringing a band that--.
JS (
01:04:14
):
High caliber.
AH (
01:04:15
):


58
Arthur Himmelberger

High caliber. When we played Michigan State at one of the NCAA tournaments. And after the
game, the band director from Michigan State came up to me. He says, how did you do this? And
I said, how did I do what? And he says, well, how did you put together such a wonderful pep
band? And I said to him, well, I said, what do you know about me? He says, well, I've done a
little bit of background search. And I said, well, always remember that I came from that other big
school in the state of Michigan, the one that has the great band [laugh]. So, I've had those kind of
interplays. When we played Georgia, their band director was curious and came up and said,
wow, how'd you do that?
GN (
01:05:21
):
Let's just focus a little bit. What would be your vision? What would you want to happen? I
remember one time talking to you, you were hoping perhaps some days of have a competition on
the wall field here, cheerleaders or band competitions, or flag players, you know, competing and-
-.
AH (
01:05:42
):
Right.
GN (
01:05:42
):
Kind of, you know, what are some visionary things?
AH (
01:05:47
):
Visionary things. Well, one of the things that I always say is no matter where you're at, you're
always halfway there. If you're not going forward, you're going backwards. There's no such thing
as status quo. I don't believe in the status quo. You're either going onward upward, or you're


59
Arthur Himmelberger

going to, faltering and slide backwards. But it would be great if we could have high school band
contest up in the stadium. Problem always is that the scheduling of the stadium is just-- like a
band contest you would have to plan out a year [affirmative] to say on such and such a date we're
going to have this big band contest. But the problem is the athletic schedules are not finalized.
GN (
01:06:49
):
I see.
AH (
01:06:50
):
Yeah. Because when you think of all the sports that are being played up there, football, soccer,
lacrosse, women's soccer.
JS (
01:07:01
):
Rugby.
AH (
01:07:01
):
Rugby, you know, they just have that pretty much consumed. Originally Tim said to me, Tim
Murray said, we ought to have a band contest here. I said, yeah, I agree with you. When and
how--?
GN (
01:07:20
):
In the high school, they're closed for the summer. So you're really working from September to
May, I guess.
AH (
01:07:26
):


60
Arthur Himmelberger

Yeah. But in order to-- high school bands lock in where they're going to be going in the fall.
GN (
01:07:34
):
I see.
AH (
01:07:35
):
They lock it in the spring before, like all the band contests for next fall are already dates are set.
For example, I know that on October the 9th there's going to be a big band contest in Arlington.
And they already have invited the bands that'll be there. So as a matter of being able to plan
ahead, that's why you have to know what year had when you could do it.
JS (
01:08:01
):
So another development that you alluded to a little bit earlier was a music major. And every time
we would have open house for accepted students, right. Some parent would ask me why don't we
have a music major?
AH (
01:08:14
):
Right. well--.
JS (
01:08:17
):
Well, they would ask me why can't my child be certified as a music teacher? And I would say we
don't have a music major. Right. But I didn't have a good answer to why we don't have a music
major.
AH (
01:08:27
):


61
Arthur Himmelberger

Other than--.
GN (
01:08:30
):
( ) how you asked to teach.
AH (
01:08:31
):
Dennis was always concerned about employability. And I said, that really wouldn't be a problem
because there are music positions in school districts that are being eliminated because they can't
find a pool big enough of individuals to fill that position.
JS (
01:09:04
):
So that's interesting. I did not know that the worry was that our statistics--.
AH (
01:09:11
):
Right.
JS (
01:09:12
):
Would suffer.
AH (
01:09:13
):
Right. But within the state of New York, there aren't that many music education programs.
JS (
01:09:20
):
Fredonia, Crane.
AH (
01:09:22
):


62
Arthur Himmelberger

Crane, possibly is it SUNY Purchase?
JS (
01:09:31
):
Purchase? Yes. Right. Purchase.
AH (
01:09:33
):
You know, then you certainly have Ithaca.
JS (
01:09:40
):
Eastman that's--.
AH (
01:09:42
):
Eastman certainly is, but Eastman is a national conservatory. I think their focus is developing
performers. Yes.
JS (
01:10:04
):
So was there, did you want to have a music major and a certification program, or did you think it
wasn't necessary for the direction you wanted to go?
AH (
01:10:14
):
No, I thought that would be a good next step and I still do, and I talked to Dennis about it several
times. I think we talked about it.
JS (
01:10:29
):
I don't remember. I just remember not really understanding the situation too well.


63
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:10:33
):
Yes. And who was the, who was your Dean?
JS (
01:10:36
):
Well, was it Bill Eidle at the time or was it Margaret Calista?
AH (
01:10:40
):
Margaret Calista. And I think you presented something to Margaret. Do you remember doing
that?
JS (
01:10:47
):
I think I, no, I don't.
AH (
01:10:49
):
Okay.
JS (
01:10:49
):
I remember thinking that I had so many advisees--.
AH (
01:10:54
):
Right.
JS (
01:10:55
):
Who were so committed to their music.
AH (
01:10:57
):


64
Arthur Himmelberger

Right.
JS (
01:10:58
):
And I really felt it would be good to have this other opportunity, this alternate for them, but I
don't remember much more than that.
AH (
01:11:05
):
Okay. Well, all I know is one day she came to me and she was very upset and she says, what's
this, that you want a music major and music education major. And she says, Marist is not known
for their music, da, da, da. And, so she just--.
JS (
01:11:32
):
Put a lid on it.
AH (
01:11:33
):
She's not going to have any music ed majors, but you know, it's a different environment today.
JS (
01:11:39
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:11:40
):
Maybe if Kevin were approached, maybe he would look at things a little differently.
JS (
01:11:51
):
We're a different institution in some ways.


65
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:11:53
):
Yeah.
GN (
01:11:55
):
I don't think money would be the issue in this day and age.
AH (
01:12:00
):
No, I don't think so.
GN (
01:12:01
):
Yeah. I mean, I think the staff to get a faculty to be able to fulfill the thing properly--.
AH (
01:12:06
):
Right.
GN (
01:12:07
):
Rather than somebody, you know, part time, adjunct--.
JS (
01:12:10
):
Somebody had to do two full jobs.
AH (
01:12:13
):
Now we were able to build the adjunct core. I mean, today we have, for example, you know, I'm
a full faculty. Sarah Williams is a full faculty. Joshua Long is the visiting director of bands and
that's a full faculty slot. And we have Mike Napolitano, who's a full administrative slot. We have


66
Arthur Himmelberger

Stephen Dorney, who's our equipment librarian, instrument manager, and that's a full-time slot.
And then we have twenty-two adjuncts.
GN (
01:12:44
):
Oh.
JS (
01:12:45
):
Many of whom are instrument teachers, correct?
AH (
01:12:48
):
Instrument and choral. I mean, the choral corral right now of faculty is quite huge and great
pianist for accompanist. But we have instrumental and we're covered both ways with a lot of
help. I mean, right now my job is just guiding, which is a lovely place to be [affirmative] I mean,
I do teaching certainly, but-- like I do the woodwind ensemble right now and I teach a
conducting course and I assist--.
GN (
01:13:31
):
Yeah, and you do the conducting. You're on site to do the bands, the football games and the--.
AH (
01:13:39
):
We're trying to right now glean out of that.
GN (
01:13:43
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:13:44
):


67
Arthur Himmelberger

And that's why we're looking for full-time director of bands right now.
GN (
01:13:47
):
Oh, I see [affirmative].
AH (
01:13:49
):
Yeah. So that my job would, as director of the music program, is to give guidance to the whole
thing as we go forward. Yeah, and not concentrate so much in the band.
GN (
01:14:02
):
I'm not sure what the time is. We get into the first hour, I guess. Yeah [augh].
JS (
01:14:09
):
What your-- I know you have to be somewhere.
AH (
01:14:12
):
Oh, if I left here at three o'clock, I'd be fine. So I've up until then. I mean, we don't have to talk
that long, but--.
GN (
01:14:23
):
We won’t talk that long today, but you woken up a whole other areas, you know, we have a
whole lot of questions about, you know, who were some of the people who supported you? What
were your greatest disadvantages? What are you greatest? You know, taking peace, feeling
different parts of your--.
AH (
01:14:42
):


68
Arthur Himmelberger

We can tear this apart.
JS (
01:14:44
):
We also do want to look forward a little bit too. You know, as you talk about yourself now being
in a position where you're guiding the various parts of the music program, what would be your
ideal for where they should go next or even twenty years down the road?
AH (
01:15:01
):
Well, I think next is to kind of rebuild back to where we were prior to the COVID.
GN (
01:15:11
):
Oh, okay. Yeah.
AH (
01:15:13
):
Okay. COVID has hurt our numbers, both instrumentally and chorally [affirmative] so I think the
first thing that we have to worry about is getting back to where we were in 2019.
JS (
01:15:28
):
Okay. So help us to understand why COVID cut our numbers. I mean, obviously when we
weren't on campus.
AH (
01:15:37
):
Yes.
JS (
01:15:38
):
I get clearly, but what do you think that there was some--?


69
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:15:42
):
Oh, there's very specific reasons why that cut our numbers. Okay. Instrumentalists were not
allowed to play one note and singers were not allowed to sing.
GN (
01:16:00
):
Oh boy.
AH (
01:16:01
):
Okay.
JS (
01:16:02
):
Even when we were back on campus--.
AH (
01:16:05
):
When we came back on campus--.
JS (
01:16:07
):
Still?
AH (
01:16:08
):
There was, there was no opportunity. I mean, initially, I mean, we're--.
GN (
01:16:16
):
Masks, we had masks for the first several weeks.
AH (
01:16:19
):


70
Arthur Himmelberger

Right? The health, there's a health committee who was deciding all this [affirmative] I forget
who was heading that.
JS (
01:16:35
):
Geoff Brackett maybe Deb DiCaprio.
AH (
01:16:37
):
No, no, this was--.
JS (
01:16:39
):
Our medical people. I don't know the new doctor who's in charge.
AH (
01:16:45
):
Whoever was in charge of deciding masks, no masks, spraying--.,
GN (
01:16:55
):
Groups, together, distances.
AH (
01:16:57
):
Yes.
GN (
01:16:58
):
All that stuff. Yeah.
AH (
01:16:59
):


71
Arthur Himmelberger

The rule for over a year was that there will be no singing and there will be no blowing of
instruments. Percussion could play. So you could have a drama ensemble and strings could play.
JS (
01:17:22
):
Wow.
AH (
01:17:22
):
But no air going out.
JS (
01:17:26
):
Thank you for clarifying that though. That makes a lot of sense.
AH (
01:17:29
):
Okay. So now if you have all these students who sign up for band and all these students sign up
for choir.
GN (
01:17:37
):
Yeah. And a closed shop [laugh].
AH (
01:17:40
):
And it's a closed shop. Guess what? I'm not going to just show up and sit in a room and watch
movies about bands or watch movies about choir.
JS (
01:17:53
):
Yeah.


72
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:17:53
):
I wanted to sing. I wanted to play so through that process.
JS (
01:17:59
):
Sure.
AH (
01:18:00
):
It dwindled. And then that happening here at Marist, it also happened in high schools.
JS (
01:18:10
):
Oh. So your feeders were no longer supplying.
AH (
01:18:15
):
Okay. So now your feeder systems-- you can't recruit the same size classes that--.
GN (
01:18:25
):
They're taking their lessons. They're not going to come prepared.
AH (
01:18:28
):
Yeah. That's right.
GN (
01:18:29
):
They have no experience.
AH (
01:18:30
):
So I say that it's going to take four to five years to get us back to where we were--.


73
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
01:18:39
):
Wow.
AH (
01:18:39
):
2019.
JS (
01:18:40
):
Wow. Wow.
AH (
01:18:43
):
So beyond that, it would be great if, if we could have a major.
JS (
01:18:50
):
Yeah, I think so too.
AH (
01:18:51
):
But if we do have a major, it has to be built with the understanding that the strength of the
program is still the non-major.
JS (
01:19:03
):
Okay. Yes.
AH (
01:19:04
):
So now the offerings that we have, I mean we offer-- we could turn this into a music major very
quickly.


74
Arthur Himmelberger

JS (
01:19:15
):
Because of all the students you have who are on music scholarships who have a commitment to
so many--.
AH (
01:19:20
):
That, but not only-- all the widespread courses that we teach, we just have a tremendous, we
have a plethora of music history courses that we teach. We have almost a full gamut of music
theory courses that we teach. We have the applied music opportunities. This with a little bit of
tweaking and adding, I mean, to have music ed you'd have to have a course that we used to call
kiddie song and dance. [Laugh] you know the rhythm instruments, the Orff instruments. Are you
familiar with the Orff instruments? You'd have to have a whole room dedicated to that because
then you'd have to prepare student teachers to go out and be able to teach that in public schools
or parochial schools. But just building, you know, always thinking that no matter where you're
at, you're halfway where you want to go. [Affirmative] The sky's the limit. It would be nice if we
had a performing venue.
JS (
01:20:44
):
I thought that the new, small auditorium was that the auditorium and the--.
AH (
01:20:49
):
No, I'm talking about-- you're talking about the recital hall?
JS (
01:20:53
):
Yeah. Recital hall, right, Thank you.


75
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:20:54
):
You couldn't put a full band concert in there. No, you couldn't. You couldn't put a full choir
concert in there.
JS (
01:21:00
):
No, it's not large enough for that?
AH (
01:21:01
):
Oh my goodness. No.
JS (
01:21:03
):
Oh.
AH (
01:21:03
):
No. That's a recital hall.
JS (
01:21:06
):
The Goletti. The Nelly Goletti?
AH (
01:21:08
):
That's, acoustically that's developed as a theater.
JS (
01:21:13
):
A theater, okay.
AH (
01:21:14
):


76
Arthur Himmelberger

That's not a concert venue. You find out in the Goletti, most of the sound, unless you have it,
might, the sound goes straight up and doesn't go--. It's almost like there's two rooms there.
There's the stage room. And there's the audience room and acoustically, the sound is not sent out
into the audience. Now you can do drama shows. That's why it's a theater. You know, you lav all
their mics and stuff like that, pumping it out through the speakers, but to have live sound, all
those curtains and the height of the--.
JS (
01:22:07
):
So I've gone to your performances at the CIA.
AH (
01:22:11
):
Yes.
JS (
01:22:11
):
Is that more what you have in mind?
AH (
01:22:12
):
That's a concert hall. Yes.
JS (
01:22:14
):
Okay.
AH (
01:22:14
):
And the Bardavon.
JS (
01:22:16
):


77
Arthur Himmelberger

Yes. Right.
AH (
01:22:16
):
That's a concert hall. Okay. So that's, that's what you're looking for. If we had a huge--.
JS (
01:22:23
):
Donor [laugh].
AH (
01:22:25
):
Donor. Yes, yes.
JS (
01:22:28
):
Wow.
GN (
01:22:29
):
Could we take over, you know, the Julia, not the Julia the--.
JS (
01:22:33
):
Bardavon.
GN (
01:22:34
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:22:35
):
But that's such a bad place in the city.
GN (
01:22:39
):


78
Arthur Himmelberger

Oh, that's another problem. Yeah.
JS (
01:22:42
):
And parking is tough.
GN (
01:22:42
):
Geography.
AH (
01:22:43
):
Yeah, yeah. No, there would be--.
JS (
01:22:46
):
I loved the lessons in carols at the church.
AH (
01:22:50
):
Oh, yes. Yeah. That's perfect for that particular activity. That's perfect for that activity. Now,
were you at the lessons in carols this year in the gym?
JS (
01:23:03
):
No. For a while, retirees were not on MARFAC.
GN (
01:23:08
):
Oh, okay.
JS (
01:23:08
):
So I never heard about it. Never knew about it.


79
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:23:11
):
All right.
GN (
01:23:13
):
I was surprised about that. I thought it was back in-- just never heard, you know, that it was
going to happen.
AH (
01:23:19
):
Oh, you didn't hear it either?
GN (
01:23:20
):
No.
AH (
01:23:20
):
But actually the way we had it set up, it came off fabulously.
JS (
01:23:28
):
You would do it there again?
AH (
01:23:29
):
Almost to the extent that we're talking about doing it there again. Yeah.
JS (
01:23:32
):
Oh good.
AH (
01:23:34
):


80
Arthur Himmelberger

We brought in an organ.
JS (
01:23:36
):
Wow. Might get more student attendance.
AH (
01:23:44
):
That's what we thought. Yeah. And actually the attendance was very, very, very good.
JS (
01:23:54
):
Gus has a favorite question. He asks about glue. When I think about how difficult it must have
been for you to be equally committed at West Point and Marist. Right. What compelled you to
keep on making that superhuman effort? What was the glue that kept you here?
AH (
01:24:21
):
Okay, well, the glue was--.
GN (
01:24:22
):
Why did you stay here anyway?
AH (
01:24:23
):
Why did I stay here anyway? I kept on seeing-- well, I can go back to my mentor at Michigan
and I got to share this story. I explained earlier that freshman did not get into his symphony band
and that my freshman year, for some crazy reason, the stars lined up. And there were five
freshmen that were admitted to his special band. And they're still close friends of mine today.
You know, one is Lynn Klock, who professor of saxophone at the University of Massachusetts,


81
Arthur Himmelberger

his wife, Laura, who was professor of French horn at the University of Massachusetts, Andy
Drells who played his life in the pits in New York. He played broadway musicals. And Jim Ogle,
who was the conductor of the Boise symphony orchestra out in Boise, Idaho. But we used to go
on like 30 day tours every year. And my freshman year, we went out to the Western states and I
remember we were in China Lake, California, and the percussion section would always have to
get there like an hour ahead of everybody else to set up all the stuff. Yeah. You know, the
percussion equipment. So, I got there early and we set up all the percussion equipment. And then
I found myself standing in a hallway alone and down at the end of the hallway, a door opened
and it was my mentor. And he was short, he looked like Mussolini if you could imagine the
perfect twin brother of Mussolini. And he comes in and he has his tuxedo in a bag over his
shoulder, he's looking at the ground. And he was 68 or 69 years old. And he was grumpy. And
when I was a freshman, I felt like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, anytime I was close to him,
it was like, I go into the shakes just about. And I said, oh my gosh, because he had a really
threatening personality. And so he starts walking to me and I wanted to be polite. Now it was
five o'clock in the afternoon.
JS (
01:27:32
):
Performance that evening.
AH (
01:27:33
):
Performance that evening. And I made the mistake of saying good morning, Dr. Revelli. So he
kept on looking at the floor and he walked past me and he got about 30 feet past me and he didn't
about face. And he came right back to me and he says, and he almost put his nose on my nose.


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Arthur Himmelberger

He says, you know what, boy, do you know what your problem is? You're not dedicated. Oh,
okay [laugh].
JS (
01:28:21
):
I thought I just got here an hour early to set up [laugh].
AH (
01:28:23
):
Yes. You're not dedicated. He didn't say anything about the time or the good morning. He says
you're not dedicated. Well, from that day fourth, I've been dedicated to bands and music and
whatever.
JS (
01:28:40
):
Do you think he was right?
AH (
01:28:42
):
Oh, I knew that he wasn't. Right. And he knew that he wasn't. Right. But he had to shake me up.
JS (
01:28:49
):
You were going to prove him wrong.
AH (
01:28:50
):
Yes.
JS (
01:28:50
):
He knew that you were--.


83
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:28:52
):
Yeah. And, I mean he was the same guy that gave me the graduate fellowship.
GN (
01:28:58
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:28:58
):
You know? Yeah. So, but you're not dedicated and from that day forth, I've been dedicated. So I
I've always seen that something special could happen here. [Affirmative] In music and it's been
that sense of dedication. That's been the glue that that's kept me here.
GN (
01:29:20
):
But you were, it seems to me, you were not embraced, like, you know, you were accepted. But
we didn't really know you because of course you aren't here that much.
AH (
01:29:32
):
Right.
GN (
01:29:33
):
You were, you know, and you here the off hours and you were different groups. So you aren't at
the table like down in the lab area.
AH (
01:29:41
):
No. As a matter of fact at this very day. It's like if I go to a plenary or a--.
GN (
01:29:51
):


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Arthur Himmelberger

Faculty session.
AH (
01:29:53
):
A faculty session of any school meeting, I still know very few of the people.
GN (
01:30:01
):
That's scenarios today. Yeah. You know, I must admit, you know, when I was here--.
AH (
01:30:07
):
Everybody knew everybody.
GN (
01:30:09
):
Yeah. We were in the same building for god's sake, we were in Donnelly Hall, you know, we
had the same, you know, and we a kind of interchange, we were in the same parking lot, now
each school has its own building and its own parking lot, you know? And it's yeah.
JS (
01:30:26
):
I wonder Art, if you, you used the word embraced, I wonder if you were embraced, you had that
sense of being embraced by your students.
AH (
01:30:35
):
Oh definitely.
JS (
01:30:36
):
I certainly imagine you would have.


85
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:30:37
):
Oh definitely. We were a big family.
JS (
01:30:39
):
Yeah, absolutely. Whenever I would have a student who I was afraid was a little at risk. Man, the
first thing I did was see if they could join band or singers.
AH (
01:30:50
):
Choir yeah.
JS (
01:30:50
):
Because they would become part of this. Well, it's in the Marist mission, the sense of
community. And I thought that it was in the music department that you could really see that
come alive.
AH (
01:31:01
):
I often tell them, it's not about music. Yeah. It's about relationships.
JS (
01:31:06
):
Yeah.
AH (
01:31:07
):
And develop positive relationships. If you developed positive-- if everybody likes each other,
then whatever it is that we're doing, we're going to do it--.
GN (
01:31:15
):


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Arthur Himmelberger

Together, better.
AH (
01:31:16
):
Together for each other. Yeah.
GN (
01:31:19
):
That's a good point.
AH (
01:31:21
):
The motto is no music without fun. No fun without music [laugh] you know? [Affirmative] that
actually was coined by the cadet glee club.
JS (
01:31:30
):
Oh wow.
AH (
01:31:30
):
And you just bring it up here and--.
GN (
01:31:36
):
Well, I can't thank you enough so I won't even try. But it's been a unique interview. I've done this
a couple of times. I'm sorry it took me so long, or us too long to get to you.
AH (
01:31:50
):
No, no problem. We're here.
GN (
01:31:51
):


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Arthur Himmelberger

We're here now. You know, we got it.
AH (
01:31:52
):
We're here now. Yeah.
AH (
01:31:54
):
And what's going to happen is that they're going to transcribe this figure out what we ever said.
AH (
01:32:02
):
Now, here's another possibility that you might want to be interested in if you're transcribing this
is go to the summer 2007 Marist magazine.
JS (
01:32:20
):
Okay. And what's there?
AH (
01:32:24
):
A major article on basically what I've given to you today. What I presented to--.
JS (
01:32:36
):
Leslie Bates.
AH (
01:32:37
):
Leslie Bates. Yeah. In 2007.
JS (
01:32:39
):
Okay. Okay. We'll do that.


88
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:32:42
):
So it's the 2007 summer Marist magazine. As a matter of fact, the cover of it is the choir, and
band, and me at the Bardavon.
JS (
01:32:53
):
Oh, okay. I meant to send you Gus the link to the video of when Sarah Williams took the singers
to Austria.
AH (
01:33:05
):
Austria, yeah. Cause those, those are things that we haven't even mentioned yet because Laura
took the group to Rome.
JS (
01:33:12
):
That's right. For the Champagnat.
GN (
01:33:14
):
The Champagnat. Yeah.
JS (
01:33:15
):
The canonization. Yeah.
AH (
01:33:18
):
And, Sarah took the group to Austria. Yeah. And if COVID would not have occurred, I was
taking the band to Italy. We were going to play on the Marist campus.
JS (
01:33:38
):


89
Arthur Himmelberger

Oh wow.
AH (
01:33:39
):
In Florence and Sarah was going to take the choir to Norway. But those-- as a matter of fact, we
had already committed a large amount of money to the travel agent. The very day that Europe
went on, what was it? Code three something. Do you remember there were numbers? And we
were having senior recognition at the basketball game, and I went out to the floor and Dennis
came to the floor and as we're going out to recognize the seniors at the basketball game, Dennis
comes up to me. He says Art, he says, I think we're going to have to cancel the band's trip to
Italy. I looked at him and lo and behold--.
JS (
01:34:36
):
That was just the tip of the iceberg.
AH (
01:34:37
):
That was the tip of the iceberg and went on from there.
JS (
01:34:41
):
Art, is there anything else like this, important stories that we should capture that somehow we
missed?
AH (
01:34:49
):
Oh boy. Here's where I wish I had my younger brain, Mike Napolitano [laugh].
GN (
01:35:02
):


90
Arthur Himmelberger

Well, don't struggle at the moment because time is running out and I'm cold [laugh]. Besides
that, we are here and the book is not closed. Right. So we can, you know, do our-- well in fact we
could do another session if we really want to, especially some of the stuff that's been mentioned
may move us to do that, you know, in terms of injecting some of the--.
AH (
01:35:34
):
More details.
GN (
01:35:35
):
Some stuff in the music, the actual, you know-- I mean the scene of you with some of the
basketball games is just, you know, leading the band and the cheering and the whole group, you
know?
AH (
01:35:45
):
Right, right.
GN (
01:35:46
):
You're the life of the party you know [laughs].
JS (
01:35:50
):
It's true, this is true.
AH (
01:35:50
):
You know, we forgot one of the conductors of the choir.
JS (
01:35:57
):


91
Arthur Himmelberger

Who?
AH (
01:35:59
):
Chris Shean.
JS (
01:36:01
):
I don't think I know--.
AH (
01:36:01
):
Christopher Shean (?), Christopher Reynolds?
JS (
01:36:06
):
I'm drawing a blank.
AH (
01:36:07
):
Okay. He was between Laura Russell, I guess. And Sarah? No.
JS (
01:36:15
):
No, because we had Janet Davis.
AH (
01:36:18
):
That was Vicky Masters, Janet Davis, Christopher Shean, and Sarah.
JS (
01:36:26
):
Right. Yes. He was, he was short lived though, right?
AH (
01:36:28
):


92
Arthur Himmelberger

Yes, because he had come from O'Neill high school.
JS (
01:36:33
):
Okay.
AH (
01:36:34
):
Where he developed a great high school program. As matter of fact, he was my daughter's choir
director, and came here and did a fabulous job, but realized he wasn't making nearly as much at
Marist as he was at O'Neill. And so, O'Neill said, come on back and they kept him at the same--.
JS (
01:36:59
):
Step or something.
AH (
01:37:00
):
They acted as if he had never been gone. Yeah, but he was very good. So if now we can just find
the right band director.
JS (
01:37:11
):
Band director and start thinking about a performance space, start lobbying for a performance
space.
AH (
01:37:17
):
Performance space. Yes.
JS (
01:37:19
):
Which I've heard Deb DiCaprio argue for.


93
Arthur Himmelberger

AH (
01:37:23
):
Yeah.
JS (
01:37:23
):
Many times. Yeah [affirmative].
AH (
01:37:28
):
No, there's-- somebody should take a trip to Centerville, Ohio, and there's a Christian school,
Protestant Christian type school that is built, with a donor, a most fabulous multipurpose concert
hall setting. [Affirmative] That could, you know, if they ever want to expand the chapel or have
larger religious activity, they could have it there. As a matter of fact, the venue is called the
chapel on this particular campus, but what a glorious facility. And, if somebody saw that or even
going up to the Culinary Institute and use that as a model.
GN (
01:38:39
):
Oh yeah. That was an old, the chapel layer, the dining hall--.
AH (
01:38:45
):
Have you been in the auditorium?
GN (
01:38:46
):
Yeah.
JS (
01:38:47
):
The concert hall? It's new.


94
Arthur Himmelberger

GN (
01:38:48
):
Yes. I've seen plays there.
AH (
01:38:54
):
Yeah. Yeah,
AH (
01:38:56
):
So that, that would be--.
JS (
01:38:58
):
The Vassar campus has a nice one too.
AH (
01:39:01
):
It's small.
JS (
01:39:01
):
Small, it is small. Yeah.
AH (
01:39:03
):
Yeah. I was thinking something larger than that.



Himmelberger, Arthur Cover Pages
Himmelberger, Arthur, 01 April 2022