Nancy O'Brien Oral History Transcript
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Part of Nancy O'Brien Oral History
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Interview with: NANCY O’BRIEN
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Nancy Decker
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Transcript - Nancy O'Brien
Interviewee: Nancy O'Brien Donahue
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
Interview Date: December 6, 2001
Location: Marist College Library Archives Room
Topic: Marist College History
Subject Headings: O’Brien, Nancy
Marist College Staff
Marist College Alumni
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Summary: Nancy O’Brien reflects on her early history growing up in Poughkeepsie before
working in the reporter’s office at Marist College. She talks about her experiences at the college,
professionally and as a student, including the introduction of women to the college as students,
as well as what she thinks Marist’s strengths are.
Gus Nolan:
Good morning, Nancy.
Nancy O'Brien:
Good morning.
GN:
Nancy, will you tell us something about your official name, what is your full name?
NO:
Nancy Ruth O'Brien Donahue.
GN:
Were you named after another member of the family?
NO:
No, not really, but I was named after Frank Sinatra's daughter. [laughter] My father when he was
in World War II before the war ended, he used to hear
Nancy with the Laughing Face
that he
recorded for his daughter because her name is Nancy and his wife's name is Nancy, so when I
was born he wanted me to be Nancy, so there's a little story there.
GN:
Where were you born?
NO:
New York City in the Bronx.
GN:
When?
NO:
1946, October 11th.
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GN:
Do you have any siblings?
NO:
Yes, I have two sisters and a brother.
GN:
Their names?
NO:
David, Joanne, and Denise.
GN:
Ok, where did you grow up?
NO:
Until I was eight years old, in the Bronx, in New York.
GN:
Where in the Bronx?
NO:
Right near Yankee Stadium, 85 West 166th Street, I still remember the address. I went to Sacred
Heart School, between Nelson and Woodycrest Avenue, near the old Polo Grounds.
GN:
Ok, you lived there for how long?
NO:
Eight years.
GN:
So you didn't go to school there?
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
No, just for I think, up to…
GN:
Third grade.
NO:
Third grade, catholic school.
GN:
And then where did you move?
NO:
Then I moved to Poughkeepsie, lived in the city of Poughkeepsie and started at I think, it was
Ralph R. Smith Elementary School.
GN:
And then, high school?
NO:
High School, Poughkeepsie High School, graduated from there in June, nineteen sixty-four.
GN:
What were your parent's names and occupations, your fathers?
NO:
My mother was June Mews, that was her maiden name and she was a homemaker; and my
father, who is now deceased, was Harold J. O'Brien and he worked for an oil company until he
retired, Gulf Oil.
GN:
Now, let me ask you some personal questions. How long have you been married to Edward?
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
It will be twenty-seven years this December; isn't that wonderful?
GN:
It is. Were you married in this area?
NO:
Yes.
GN:
What about the children, tell us about the children.
NO:
We have two children, Ned and Hope. Ned just turned twenty-five, Hope just turned twenty-two.
We still have them both at home, so we feel very lucky about that. No, we really do, and they
both graduated from Marist. Hope is getting her master’s degree in two weeks, she finishes her
student teaching.
GN:
Wonderful. Now tell us about coming to Marist. When did you first come to Marist to work?
NO:
September, 1966.
GN:
What were the circumstances, how did that come about?
NO:
Ok, I worked at DeLaval, a separator company then, out on Route Forty-Four, for one year
exactly, almost to the day. I decided I really didn't like that job all that much, there was a lot of
key punching as I recall it, which was very boring. I did want to go to school so I was taking
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Nancy O’Brien
courses at night at Dutchess Community College in English, and I knew through some friends,
Mrs. O'Brien who was the recorder at that time, and she had a secretary, Chris Lariot, whose
husband, George Lariot was a student at Marist. Chris was working in the recorder’s office as her
secretary. They were getting ready to move, I think George was graduating; he had gotten a job,
so she needed a secretary assistant in the office, and because I knew her children and we
socialized and I was in her home a lot; she knew I wasn't too happy at DeLaval. She thought I
was very funny, she liked me, so she said, "why don't you go up and see Tony Campilii, I
need somebody and I will set you up with an interview, which she did.
GN:
Is she related to you?
NO:
No, in no way at all. Not that anyone would ever believe it, they thought and many still do, that
she was my mother.
GN:
Yeah,
NO:
But she wasn't.
GN:
Some of us here
NO:
But she really wasn't, but the kids in this school always believed that she was because we were
very close, and I was just a year younger than her daughter, and I think a year older than her son.
GN:
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Nancy O’Brien
How would you describe your first jobs at Marist, what was your role?
NO:
I was the, I guess I was like a secretary pretty much, even though I really wasn't trained in any
business courses; I took liberal arts in high school, college prep. I basically was like her assistant
and did the secretarial things in the office, answer the phone, but very shortly I started to do a lot
more. She let me do a lot of the things that she did as far as figuring out the cumulative indexes
of the students, recording the grades, and then I started to do a lot with registration because
everything was done by hand. I very quickly got to do a lot of the things that ran that office. It
was really exciting.
GN:
Now, the way you described those conditions; you had come from DeLaval with some technical
area; Marist is rather primitive I guess in those terms; when did technology begin to move in?
When did they start using computers or punch cards?
NO:
Ok, no, I don't know the date; you probably know the date that it started, but I do know that we
were still over in Champagnat in this very small classroom, and that was our office. It was a
long, very small classroom, one of the very smallest downstairs on the left, I think it was like the
third or fourth room.
GN:
Did you say Champagnat?
NO:
No, yeah I did, I'm sorry, I meant Donnelly. I remember Nilus Donnelly was the first one that
was going to start this computer and it was called the fourteen 0 one, it was a big mammoth
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Nancy O’Brien
machine and he decided to start with the recorder’s office and then go to the business office, so
we were going to be the first ones. He came in and he would say, "You have to meet with me,
you have to learn how to keypunch." Well, I knew how to keypunch, that's one thing I came from
DeLaval with because that was my job. They just basically taught me it there; and I did all the
timesheets and the time keeping for the company. I knew about that so we started on a class with
that and he tried to teach us some programming, which was a joke because we didn’t know
anything about it and we [laughter] spent most of our time laughing and fooling around because
we really, if you know Nilus Donnelly; I mean we didn't look at him as like someone that’s
going to teach us to run computers.
GN:
He ran bulldozers.
NO:
Yeah, right, right, but he would come in and say, "Now we're going to learn computers, and I'm
going to teach you." We had some really funny meetings. I had a little step up because I knew
the keypunching so I fell right into that, which is one of the first things you needed to do as far as
punch in grades. Doing a schedule, that's how we really began in our office, we were the first.
GN:
Who were the people you reported to; first there was O'Brien, but then who was there?
NO:
First there was Mrs. O'Brien, and then, I'm trying to think, if Mr. Mortensen was the registrar at
that time. I believe he must have been, but he wasn't in the office with us, that didn't occur until
we moved over to Adrian Hall. He was there, but I think he was her boss at the time, part time,
because he was a retired relief teacher/principle, but I'm pretty sure he was the registrar. At that
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Nancy O’Brien
time, the Dean was John O'Shea, Brother John O'Shea so he was who we reported to and he was
upstairs in Donnelly; that I remember, in the very beginning. I think also upstairs, was the
teacher education office with Brother Murphy. They were kind of next to each other, so those are
the ones I remember in the beginning that we reported to.
GN:
How about Tony Campilii?
NO:
Tony was very, we were very involved with him because we worked very closely with the
business office. Tony is the one who hired me; I've known him since the day I came here. We
worked close with him because whatever we did affected their billing, which I'm sure still does,
so we were like really tight, close together, we were very involved with him too. I don't know
that you would say reported to him, but we certainly did deal with him a lot.
GN:
Could you say something about the interaction of your offices, to get information? For instance
the debts, you wouldn't let people register or did they register?
NO:
Yeah, we had a very good relationship. We knew what we had to do; we couldn't give out grades
when kids owed money, and the diplomas, we had lists that we had to do, so there was a very
close relationship there. They were… we were downstairs and I believed I think they were up. I
don't know where they were at that time, if they were upstairs or not. We all got together, that
was another thing; when the computers came in, they put us next to each other. They felt we
needed to be near each other, so that's why we took over Adrian Hall. When this computer
started to come in, they put the Computer Center, the Business Office, the Recorder, Registrar's
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Nancy O’Brien
office, all together in Adrian Hall; when we started out on this new venture. Then the idea was to
get us on the computer first, computerize our records and then the business office. We worked
there and we were in and out of each others offices because we were really very closely related
in the duties that we both did. We had an excellent relationship, all the staff, Tony, and Mrs.
O'Brien, Mr. Mortensen only he was part time, so he was basically doing a lot of, taking in
transfer credits and things like that. He was doing part of the schedule; but eventually a lot of
that really got turned over to us and then we ended up with a full time registrar after he left.
GN:
Was that John Dwyer, who's the first
NO:
I'm trying to think, was John first or was it… I don't think John was first. I think it was John
King. John King was here for about a year, he wasn't here too long, he was a Brother; maybe a
year, year and a half, and then I think it was John Dwyer.
GN:
Do you remember Brother John Malachy?
NO:
Yes, but I was not here when he was here; he was the registrar with Mrs. O'Brien, before I came,
and I think, I don't know if he was full time or part time, so I didn't have any dealings with him.
He was for a while; but when I came, Mr. Mortensen was really the one who was doing it.
GN:
Ok, and he was replaced eventually by--.
NO:
He was probably replaced by John Malachy, right?
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
What's the span of years that you were in the office here?
NO:
Thirteen.
GN:
Thirteen years?
NO:
Thirteen years.
GN:
Now, in those thirteen years, the college went through certain development; and you would say
that there was some crystallization in the departments. From where you stood was there… were
each of the academic areas as cooperative, or did they have more problems than others? For
numbers of reasons: like for instance, requirements for diplomas, teacher education needed
certain credits and so on. Did you have any interaction with departments like that?
NO:
Yes, all of them, because I basically, what my job became, well we decided, who graduated. Our
office did; we went through folder by folder; we would stay in the office all hours of the night.
GN:
You mean computers were not used for this?
NO:
No, not in the beginning, oh never, no. It was all, I mean, we would get printouts eventually, but
still. I'd have to go through every file and make sure that it matched, because again, I mean, you
had to do a double check on that sort of thing, and I ended up doing that.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Did you use an adding machine, or what did they use?
NO:
Yes, we had this old blue slate colored machine that I figured the indexes on, and then you would
type the grades. I typed all the grades on the transcripts too, and then I typed when they got the
diploma, what it was in, and the date, because you had three dates of graduation, which you still
do; January, August, and May. So we did all that, but even after we were on the computer, I
would get the grades off the computer on labels, on student labels and I would have to post them
on the transcripts. I still would have to manually type at the bottom of the transcript that they had
completed the degree and what the degree was. Then I also had to keep those records in order to
make sure we got Bundy money; because we got money for every graduate. So that money was
very important to the college at that time; that was part of my job also.
GN:
Now, while Marist was an all-male institution, did you and other women feel that you were
treated fairly?
NO:
Oh, definitely. [Laughter]
GN:
Favorably?
NO:
Definitely. [Laughter]
GN:
Was there particular consideration given to women because facilities really didn't…
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
I don't recall now, do you want me to talk as a staff person or as a student, because I was both?
GN:
Well, as a staff person first and then we will get to the student.
NO:
As a staff person, it was great, it was like a family. There were a lot of secretaries, so there were
a lot of females on campus, I mean as far as secretaries. Older women, younger women, all ages,
as I recall, everybody got along well together. The offices all knew each other, Admissions,
Tom Wade’s office, Dean of Students, Teacher Ed with Brother Murphy, Sandy Doxy was there.
GN:
Oh yes.
NO:
Admissions, I mean all these names come back to me. The Admissions Office; Eileen Young;
who ended up marrying Pete Leone; who is still a city cop. I saw him not too long ago when we
were going to a concert. So the offices, there was, I think, she may even still work here; she was
over in the residence hall. I can't remember her first name now, isn't that awful, she's still here, I
think. So no, and Dave Flynn was in Admissions; his wife worked for us for awhile temporarily,
people in the business office, lot's and lot's of women as far as staff goes as I recall, and very
close knit. Everyone got along, everybody knew each other, everybody helped each other, you
needed something from their office, very friendly, very nice atmosphere to work in.
GN:
When did you become a student here?
NO:
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Nancy O’Brien
I think probably not the first semester, I started fall, ‘96, I believe I was still taking a course up at
Dutchess.
GN:
Stop right there, fall
NO:
‘96, ’66.
GN:
Fall, ‘66.
NO
God, what's wrong with me?
GN:
Ok. [Laughter]
NO:
This is where my age shows, yes fall, 1966. That's when I started, so I probably started my first
course in January, probably 1967.
GN:
Was that evening school?
NO:
Evening, yes, I was the first, when they let girls go in; I was one of the first to go
in but I had to
go in the evening. I mean we're not in the day classes yet, so I started in the evening and my first
course was with Casimir Norkeliunas in German, because I had taken three years of German in
High School and he thought this was just great; that he had a girl in his class that was taking
German, and I remember I felt, there were about thirteen people in the class; they were all IBM
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Nancy O’Brien
men, so that was a little intimidating, because I not only was the youngest in the class, I was
really very young, only nineteen.
GN:
And the only female?
NO:
Only female, and about twelve IBM men, mostly older men; so he would call on me a lot to
recite things; I had a very strict German teacher so I was fairly good in it because you had to be;
she was tough and I again was the only girl in high school taking it and she was like eighty years
old; and she banged the ruler and whatever. He kind of took advantage of that and made a lot of
jokes about it, I was a little, I felt a little uncomfortable but not too much about you know, being
the only woman, but I guess just being in that class and being a German class and all these
engineers. It was okay because he was really sweet and sensitive to it.
GN:
So you're taking one course, and you really have to go half the distance now right, because you
have a diploma from Dutchess Community College?
NO:
No, I only came here with, I believe I transferred in seventeen credits, so I did all my work at
Marist. I started then, and I was the first employee to take advantage of getting free tuition,
nobody else did it, nobody cared about it; but I did, and I was the only one that did it and then of
course I advanced taking more courses again at night until you were allowed to take them during
the day. Then I started doing it during the day on my lunch hour to get my degree. It took ten
years to do the whole thing, but, once I started to do it, it took a few years, some of the other staff
women, started to see, gee, maybe we should do it. I remember, I think the first ones that did it
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Nancy O’Brien
after me very slowly and I think at that time they were only like auditing, was Joy Kudlow and
Arena Britt and I think Syd Watoff started to do a few things; but I was the first one to get a
degree from here under that program.
GN:
And it took ten years?
NO:
Ten years exactly, I was pregnant with my son when I got my BA in English on May 1976.
GN:
Ok and you majored in English?
NO:
Majored in English and minored in Philosophy.
GN:
How is it that you rose to the chairman of the department? Doctor George Sommer was an
outstanding professor here and yet you didn't take him.
NO:
No, I didn't.
GN:
How did that…
NO:
Well, one of the courses I know, I don't know if he taught Shakespeare, I know he taught
Chaucer, and I had no interest in taking that, so that probably is one of the reasons, but it's
probably the same reason, I minored in philosophy and I never took a course with the Chairman
of the Philosophy Department either, so I don't really think that that is that unusual.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Well it is unusual, but it's not that unusual.
NO:
Is it really? I don't think so; I know Doctor Sommers thought it was, but I didn't. [Laughter]
GN:
Yes, right. Tell me, when you got your degree, were you ever of a mind to leave Marist and seek
a position elsewhere at another great institution in the Hudson Valley?
NO:
Never, never.
GN:
There was no attraction to go to IBM?
NO:
No, never.
GN:
It was too interesting and fun to work here.
NO:
Right, I loved it, I loved every day; I never even took vacation, Tony used to say, "you've got to
make her take her vacation.” He’d have to pay me for it all the time, because I just never wanted
to miss work, I loved it.
GN:
Okay, tell me now, the official coming of co-eds to the campus and what impact did it make?
Did you feel in your office that it was, did they cry more regularly for things they needed than
the guys?
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
No, I really never saw that, not in my office; maybe the business office where they wanted the
money, but no, I didn't see that. The girl's, they kind of stuck together in the beginning; of course
the guy's were really, you know, liked having them around, but I remember they were always
very polite. I mean it was just like a new experience and lot's of fun, and I didn't see anything
negative about it, it was just like a new thing beginning, just like the computer; you know, kind
of different. I think probably maybe in the classrooms is where maybe they might have seen a
difference and maybe the adjustment because there would be so few; even though you had a
certain number enter the school, you might have a class with twenty-seven guy's and maybe two
or three females; so maybe there, but as far as our office goes, no, we didn't see a lot of that
crying. We got just as much complaining and needing help from the girl's as we did from the
guy's, in some way's the guy's probably needed it more.
GN:
Yes. Did you have anything to do with the credits being given to the nurses at St. Francis
Hospital?
NO:
I know we had to record them, but we didn't have a whole lot to do with other than just having to
record them and keep their records, that were pretty much done on their own and just probably
brought to us to record them on transcripts and keep their records. It wasn't done for too long, I
don't believe.
GN:
No, because once that program ceased, shortly after they were not going to be admitted to the
school.
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
Right, right.
GN:
One other question now; the business of seeing changes at Marist, is what I want you to talk
about. Number one, we talked about the introduction of co-eds; what would you say about the
administrative changes? Were you here for a change from, did you know Brother Paul?
NO:
Not as an administrator.
GN:
Not as an administrator. Ok, then Linus Foy was the President, were you here also for Dennis
Murray?
NO:
When Dennis came in, I was just about to leave, so I saw more, I knew more about Dennis as a
president as a student and then through my being a faculty wife, and then of course meeting him
at many functions and his wife, so I really left my position as Assistant Registrar when he
started.
GN:
Ok, let's back up and talk about Doctor Foy. What were your experiences with him as an
administrator; did you ever have to go to his office for materials or improvement, or did you
write budgets to…
NO:
No, my dealings with him, I dealt mostly with his secretary, Miss Travis.
GN:
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Oh, yes.
NO:
Ok, so she was like, she did all his work; Linus was just, he would be in our office a lot, you
know, very fast, that was how Linus did everything, in and out, very fast. "Hi, good morning,
any problems?" He would ask you some personal things if you knew something; it would be
official, but he would always talk to you in an unofficial way. I kind of knew him more
personally, just by being in our office all the time, but it was done in a very unofficial personable
way. The stuff that needed to be done officially in the office, Mary Travis would come down and
get what she would need.
GN:
Did you have any protests? Students coming to your office and then not being happy with the
outcome and going on to the President's Office. Was there any kind of difficulty?
NO:
No, not that I recall, as I recall, he was always very approachable. I know there were a couple of
instances where they were trying to get together groups, they would write things in the circle; but
I always felt they always has access what they needed; I don't recall, I think they would mostly
go through Tom Wade, because he was Dean of Students at that time. Linus was always
available to anybody, he was always visible.
GN:
Were there any difficulties involved in the kind of maturing process the development of
departments and programs, do you have to change a lot of…
NO:
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Nancy O’Brien
We had a lot of problems with scheduling rooms, the academic calendar and the catalog which
came out of admissions and then they did, eventually it went from admissions to our office, so
there were some problems there, and changes of department heads and some department heads
did things one way, and then they would want to change a schedule, you know things like that.
Those times it became difficult when department heads would change naturally because people
worked in different ways, so we would have to keep on top of that all the time, that was our job
too, and then especially when we took over the catalog, getting deadlines in, that was always a
difficult thing, getting grades in on time, calling them on the phone because they hold up
everything; but I'm sure the same thing happens now, incomplete grades, following up on that
sort of stuff. That became more and more of a problem, especially as you got more and more
computerized, got more and more students, needed more and more reports, as I say we needed to
get money in every year to the state for Bundy Money, so your statistics are very important and
they were always asking us now for statistical reports, which we didn't have to do a lot before.
We also did the veterans benefits in my office, I did that also, so that was also important for
financial aid, we worked very close too with financial aid.
GN:
Do you recall who the first controller was?
NO:
The first--.
GN:
He was a brother.
NO:
Gee no, I don't.
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GN:
Was it Cornelius?
NO:
Russell?
GN:
Yeah.
NO:
Really?
GN:
Ok, I just thought you might…
NO:
No that I didn't know. No, no.
GN:
He's the first to get federal aid.
NO:
No, I did not know that.
GN:
Yeah, well, he's World War II.
NO:
Ok.
GN:
That would be a bitter history, just for the record here as we're going through this. On this
changing, when a new requirement goes in, doesn't it take some time for it to actually be
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implemented. Now there are students who come that are given catalogs, and given requirements,
don't they go through a period of three or four years here under those requirements or can you
change them?
NO:
They are supposed to as I recall, whatever you came in under and that even affected me, because
I was here for ten years, we had, what you would have to do then is get waivers.
GN:
Right, or find the other catalog
NO:
Yeah right, and with me, within ten years the catalog did change, the requirements changed, the
core courses changed, I mean I'm not going to go into all that, but you were supposed to be held
to the requirements of what the year you began. Someone like myself who was doing part time,
at the end, I did full time, I did go to school full time and worked full time, but I stuck to the
requirements of nineteen sixty-six, so somebody would always have to be up on those
requirements and…
GN:
Was there a sixty-sixty core program?
NO:
Yeah,
GN:
Sixty you chose, and sixty the Department Chair chose?
NO:
Yeah. That was very easy in those days.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
From your vantage point, what would you say Linus Foy's greatest or several of his contributions
would be and then what would Dennis Murray's be? Can you talk about that in general terms?
NO:
I really don't feel I could say, I mean I've seen all the changes it's like a different school, but I
think for the time; from what I remember, I mean Linus was just, he had a vision, it's just his
vision for the future and he was here at the present time when a lot of that just wasn't going to
happen, but I certainly think he knew what was going to happen, but I think his own personal life
changed too, so I mean, that's probably part of it; I think if he had stayed here, I mean my own
personal vision, he would have done just what's happened; I mean I do believe that because he's
a brilliant man and he was a tremendous, hard loyal worker. The Marist Community meant a lot
to him, and I still feel to this day, even though a lot of it is..
GN:
Materially changed
NO:
A lot of credit is given to the technology and all that, I still don't think it would have gotten
anywhere if it didn't have the core people that were here from when I was here. I believe that
with all my heart and soul; and I feel that is the biggest change that I see and it's also the saddest
one because I just feel a lot of the new younger staff don’t have that history, which is, that's life.
I just feel that not having that, and the one's that are still here that still do have it, thank goodness
they're here and have been able to pass on some of that, but I don't know how much of that has
been absorbed by the new people or if they really understand that full meaning of it. I hope they
do and I know there is a lot of people that are retired and still are very active and part of the
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Nancy O’Brien
community here, so I think that's why we still have this active Marist Community that's still a
great part of the college. I think one of the great things about Dennis is other than his focus on
the future and how important technology is and I've read many statements that he's said and
heard many speeches, but I think one of the most important things is that he built on that
community; he didn't try to eliminate it or dismiss it, he saw from the very beginning the strength
of it, recognized it, and integrated it into what Marist could become. To me, that was the most
important thing, he recognized the importance of that.
GN:
Ok, could you reflect a little bit on Nilus?
NO:
Oh Nilus, he was so wonderful, I loved him. He was just a man of all trades, a man of all
seasons. Could do, I mean very talented man, I still now, even, my husband tells me things, you
know stories now and then about him, you know personal stories.
GN:
What about his projects?
NO:
Yes, he could do everything and he did do everything; I mean we all know the building stories of
the Brother's, you know, out there building the school and the foundations, but look, he's the one
they went to, to start the computer. Who ever thought that, I mean I don't know where that came
from, but just a very friendly, generous, kind open person that also had a vision of what the
college could become to. Very accessible to everybody, to the students, to the person who
cleaned the offices, right up to the President. He was just, and even when I think of him, I think
25
Nancy O’Brien
of someone like Brother Tarcisius in the printing shop, that little old place that that poor guy
used to work in and still get us everything that we needed.
GN:
On the same tone now, can you reflect on some other outstanding members of the faculty that
you saw? If I mention some names you might reflect on?
NO:
Well you know, I do remember to, we didn't talk too much about the administration, but I do
remember the Dean's that I worked under; and they were wonderful. Again, they were strong
parts to our Marist Community. We went from Brother John O'Shea, who also later became
ordained a priest, and I was invited to go to his ordination and I will never forget that, down at
the Capuchin Brothers, and that was wonderful, to see him become a priest. Then he left and I
believe then, the Dean's Office, I think it was Brother LaPietra, and then it was shared between
Kevin Carolan and Jerry Cox, so there were like three of them. They had three distinct functions.
I worked very closely with them and that was great. I think by then, I had become the Assistant
Registrar, so I went from a secretary to an administrative position under them at that time. I
worked with all three of them as I said, and they were great. They believed in what you could do
and they were very supportive; especially Brother LaPietra. If you told him you could do
something, that's all you needed to say, I remember him saying many times, "If you say you can
do it, if you meet the deadline, I believe you", and Jerry and Kevin were the same way. Then
after them, I believe it was Lou Zuccarello, and again, you know, people built on what was
already there, they never tried to really change it. They tried to keep the strengths, which I think
we had from the beginning, they recognized it, they built on it and they just tried to maybe, just
26
Nancy O’Brien
make it better, but not ever replace it or come in and try to change anybody's style. I always had
an effective relationship there, then it turned where I guess Jerry, became more the Dean
GN:
Of students.
NO:
Yeah right, and Lou was more the academic again, but still worked very closely with us. I know
they always, Richard LaPietra, just started a tradition; when we did graduation, how to
pronounce the names of students when you gave out the diplomas. He would come down to our
office and go over every single name with me and with Mrs. O'Brien too, in the beginning, to
pronounce a name, not to make a mistake. That followed, I don't know if they do that today,
but I know Richard did it and I know Lou did it, and Jerry did it and whatever, anybody who was
going to hand out the diploma.
GN:
Yeah, they break up now into the chairs of the various departments.
NO:
Do they, ok, but we started that, you know, they came down and we would go over it, name by
name, so they would pronounce it right.
GN:
On this, the follow up of Lou Zuccarello, would be Andrew Molloy, full time. I think there
might have been a year there when it was more or less vacant; that's not exactly true, but; were
you here for…
NO:
27
Nancy O’Brien
No, I think by then, because I had left in August, of seventy-nine, that was my last year and then,
as I said, Dennis had just taken over, so I think August fifteen. I think my dinner was almost like
the same time he was leaving and I think Andy maybe after that, or for an interim period.
GN:
One year after that.
NO:
Yes, ok, so that was really the end of, no I really just knew him personally he and his wife
Rosemary just through the college.
GN:
How about some of the faculty? Do you remember Roscoe Balch?
NO:
Oh, definitely, yes he and his big hat.
GN:
A Dr. Jeptha Lanning?
NO:
Oh, Jep, he was one of my favorites because he was in the English Department and I was, I knew
a lot about him, going through, his getting his doctorate. That's what I remember too, he and
Cass Norkeliunas, and Tom Casey working on their doctorates, I mean they did a lot of… they
had to come in the office to get copies of things and we were like right there and talking about
how are you doing on that, so I remember that. Those are the personal things I remember. As far
as teachers, they were just wonderful; also the man sitting across from me, I had him, Professor
Nolan, in class too.
GN:
28
Nancy O’Brien
Outstanding teacher.
NO:
No, I have to say, one of my biggest surprises and this is not because you are sitting here, but I
knew you more as an instructor, coming in the office, always getting your grades in on time,
always like that, but I never had you in class and I remember when my first class that I took with
you was a night class; I remember, I shouldn't have been amazed, but I was; what a great teacher
you are. I enjoyed the course so much, because I never saw that side of you. I've never seen my
husband teach, and I think that's terrible, because just what I hear people say and just to hear him
talk, I know he's a wonderful teacher, but I've never been able to be taught by him.
GN:
My niece cried after she finished taking your husband's course because there were no more
philosophy courses.
NO:
Yeah, I know, and I've heard that from other's, that's what I'm saying; a lot of times, I didn't get
to see the people I knew in the administrative level, worked with as faculty people in an
administrative area. When I got to get into a class and see them as teachers, it was like wow,
there's a good teacher, I mean you were so funny and good in a classroom and we had such a
great time in the courses.
GN:
You read it just like I wrote it, that's very good. [Laughter]
NO:
No, I'm serious, I really am.
GN:
29
Nancy O’Brien
Let's take a different tact. What do you see in the future for Marist, ten years down the line or
twenty-five years down the line? What kind of an institution do you think would be here, when
you look at this library now, is this the beginning of more things, or are we going to lose
something in the transfer in becoming bigger?
NO:
I don't think we will lose anything, I don't know how much bigger they can get, I think they are
going to run out of land if they haven't already, so I don't know. Just certainly what they have
done so far is just wonderful, I mean the vision has been there. I know they just recently got
more money so somebody is doing their homework and they know the needs. I think, and this is
just a personal thing; I think the technology is great and I think the future is there, but I would
just hate for them to lose the human aspect of what people themselves can do, and not always
depend on it because the world is still made up of human beings. I just hope that the Marist
commitment never changes. I hope they keep in contact with the alumnae, the families, the
children and I know that they are always very active in that now and I hope that stays the same.
You still have to have that foundation if Marist is going to be unique. I think they are unique now
and I would want them to stay that way; and they won't stay that way unless they look at some of
those other areas. Keep doing the technology, but do more, like with your teacher-ed. I got my
Master's Degree last August in Ed-Psychology and I know what how important that was to me,
and what I learned being with the students and some new teachers, some old teachers and a lot of
the humanness that's in those classes. I'd like to see that expand and what my daughter is getting
out of it. I would like to see more programs for that, you know, like maybe a child care center on
campus. I know a lot of colleges are doing that and I don't see Marist going in that way and it's
an excellent way to train their student teachers, and excellent way to get their special-ed training.
30
Nancy O’Brien
You know, to have the students that are here, have their children, some of them need babysitting
services. I'd like to see some things go in that area.
GN:
Do you remember the swimming pool?
NO:
Yes I do, I even swam in it. I brought my kids to it in the very beginning.
GN:
Maybe we should build another swimming pool outside and integrate a summer program.
NO:
Wouldn't hurt, it's a great summer camp for faculty and student children and Upward Bound and
things like that, if you still have that.
GN:
Yes, right; and the location of Marist, will it remain a focal point in it's position here to draw
people, do you think?
NO:
Oh yeah.
GN:
The campus has really become a gem, really.
NO:
Yes, it's beautiful, just beautiful.
GN:
Is there anything you would like to add that I didn't ask, in terms of your experience?
NO:
31
Nancy O’Brien
No, not really, I still miss the old days when I go to the faculty receptions. I hardly know anyone
anymore; there are a lot of adjuncts. I think that's the only thing that I would be careful about.
We have a lot of adjuncts, and I know there's financial reasons for that, but I've heard statements
from students and from parents, even people where I work now. I have people, matter of fact I
have a faculty person that comes to where I work, the children do, and I here statements that
there's just a lot of part-time teachers, always getting different ones; so I think you just have to be
careful about that. I think department chairmen recognize now from what I understand and I
hope they pay more attention to that. Other than that, I think that they will do a good job and they
will be successful as they are.
GN:
In closing, what would be some of the fondest memories of your long career here? Either in your
work career or your student career or as a wife to Kevin?
NO:
Well, I guess I'll do a little bit on each one. As far as faculty, just wonderful, caring committed
teachers, all the time, even now, the new faculty. I've experienced the older faculty, those that
have passed on, have retired; because I just finished my master's degree. I came back twenty
years later after the BA degree, that as tough for me in the beginning, I felt really like a duck out
of water, but, excellent faculty now that I've had… really still committed even though some of
them were still here and some are new, so that's still here and I think that's a good thing. I've
seen that, and through my children I've seen it. As far as when I first came here, the camaraderie
that was here and the Christmas parties that we had, which we don't have anymore, they were
lots of fun and very personal. Now that personal touch isn't there because we don't have it
anymore. I don't know why. I think that was something that we tried to split up into three groups;
32
Nancy O’Brien
we had a maintenance one, we had a prison one, you know for the prison people, we still had the
faculty one, and then all of a sudden we did away with all of it. I guess that's just because we
grew too big. That was one of the personal touches that we don't have anymore. The September
reception, you get together at Dennis' house and that's really nice, but a lot of people don't know
anybody anymore and they kind of stay in little clicks, but I guess again, that's life. As far as my
fondest thing, I guess, is that I met my husband here and that was the greatest thing about my
education here; my children did, so of course I take that away as a very, very special, special
thing. I have made some very good friends with some very really… and I just say this as a word,
but some really good, honest, caring committed people, which I think is the best thing to get out
of an education, and is what I am proudest of in my children and my husband. That's the kind of
people they are, that's what I feel the proudest of and I hope that I've gotten some of that from
here in the jobs that I've gone on to and that I've been able to bring that commitment to the areas
that I've worked in since I've left.
GN:
Thank you very much.
NO:
Ok, you're welcome.
O'Brien, Nancy Cover Pages
O'Brien, Nancy
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Nancy Decker
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Transcript - Nancy O'Brien
Interviewee: Nancy O'Brien Donahue
Interviewer: Gus Nolan
Interview Date: December 6, 2001
Location: Marist College Library Archives Room
Topic: Marist College History
Subject Headings: O’Brien, Nancy
Marist College Staff
Marist College Alumni
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Summary: Nancy O’Brien reflects on her early history growing up in Poughkeepsie before
working in the reporter’s office at Marist College. She talks about her experiences at the college,
professionally and as a student, including the introduction of women to the college as students,
as well as what she thinks Marist’s strengths are.
Gus Nolan:
Good morning, Nancy.
Nancy O'Brien:
Good morning.
GN:
Nancy, will you tell us something about your official name, what is your full name?
NO:
Nancy Ruth O'Brien Donahue.
GN:
Were you named after another member of the family?
NO:
No, not really, but I was named after Frank Sinatra's daughter. [laughter] My father when he was
in World War II before the war ended, he used to hear
Nancy with the Laughing Face
that he
recorded for his daughter because her name is Nancy and his wife's name is Nancy, so when I
was born he wanted me to be Nancy, so there's a little story there.
GN:
Where were you born?
NO:
New York City in the Bronx.
GN:
When?
NO:
1946, October 11th.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Do you have any siblings?
NO:
Yes, I have two sisters and a brother.
GN:
Their names?
NO:
David, Joanne, and Denise.
GN:
Ok, where did you grow up?
NO:
Until I was eight years old, in the Bronx, in New York.
GN:
Where in the Bronx?
NO:
Right near Yankee Stadium, 85 West 166th Street, I still remember the address. I went to Sacred
Heart School, between Nelson and Woodycrest Avenue, near the old Polo Grounds.
GN:
Ok, you lived there for how long?
NO:
Eight years.
GN:
So you didn't go to school there?
3
Nancy O’Brien
NO:
No, just for I think, up to…
GN:
Third grade.
NO:
Third grade, catholic school.
GN:
And then where did you move?
NO:
Then I moved to Poughkeepsie, lived in the city of Poughkeepsie and started at I think, it was
Ralph R. Smith Elementary School.
GN:
And then, high school?
NO:
High School, Poughkeepsie High School, graduated from there in June, nineteen sixty-four.
GN:
What were your parent's names and occupations, your fathers?
NO:
My mother was June Mews, that was her maiden name and she was a homemaker; and my
father, who is now deceased, was Harold J. O'Brien and he worked for an oil company until he
retired, Gulf Oil.
GN:
Now, let me ask you some personal questions. How long have you been married to Edward?
4
Nancy O’Brien
NO:
It will be twenty-seven years this December; isn't that wonderful?
GN:
It is. Were you married in this area?
NO:
Yes.
GN:
What about the children, tell us about the children.
NO:
We have two children, Ned and Hope. Ned just turned twenty-five, Hope just turned twenty-two.
We still have them both at home, so we feel very lucky about that. No, we really do, and they
both graduated from Marist. Hope is getting her master’s degree in two weeks, she finishes her
student teaching.
GN:
Wonderful. Now tell us about coming to Marist. When did you first come to Marist to work?
NO:
September, 1966.
GN:
What were the circumstances, how did that come about?
NO:
Ok, I worked at DeLaval, a separator company then, out on Route Forty-Four, for one year
exactly, almost to the day. I decided I really didn't like that job all that much, there was a lot of
key punching as I recall it, which was very boring. I did want to go to school so I was taking
5
Nancy O’Brien
courses at night at Dutchess Community College in English, and I knew through some friends,
Mrs. O'Brien who was the recorder at that time, and she had a secretary, Chris Lariot, whose
husband, George Lariot was a student at Marist. Chris was working in the recorder’s office as her
secretary. They were getting ready to move, I think George was graduating; he had gotten a job,
so she needed a secretary assistant in the office, and because I knew her children and we
socialized and I was in her home a lot; she knew I wasn't too happy at DeLaval. She thought I
was very funny, she liked me, so she said, "why don't you go up and see Tony Campilii, I
need somebody and I will set you up with an interview, which she did.
GN:
Is she related to you?
NO:
No, in no way at all. Not that anyone would ever believe it, they thought and many still do, that
she was my mother.
GN:
Yeah,
NO:
But she wasn't.
GN:
Some of us here
NO:
But she really wasn't, but the kids in this school always believed that she was because we were
very close, and I was just a year younger than her daughter, and I think a year older than her son.
GN:
6
Nancy O’Brien
How would you describe your first jobs at Marist, what was your role?
NO:
I was the, I guess I was like a secretary pretty much, even though I really wasn't trained in any
business courses; I took liberal arts in high school, college prep. I basically was like her assistant
and did the secretarial things in the office, answer the phone, but very shortly I started to do a lot
more. She let me do a lot of the things that she did as far as figuring out the cumulative indexes
of the students, recording the grades, and then I started to do a lot with registration because
everything was done by hand. I very quickly got to do a lot of the things that ran that office. It
was really exciting.
GN:
Now, the way you described those conditions; you had come from DeLaval with some technical
area; Marist is rather primitive I guess in those terms; when did technology begin to move in?
When did they start using computers or punch cards?
NO:
Ok, no, I don't know the date; you probably know the date that it started, but I do know that we
were still over in Champagnat in this very small classroom, and that was our office. It was a
long, very small classroom, one of the very smallest downstairs on the left, I think it was like the
third or fourth room.
GN:
Did you say Champagnat?
NO:
No, yeah I did, I'm sorry, I meant Donnelly. I remember Nilus Donnelly was the first one that
was going to start this computer and it was called the fourteen 0 one, it was a big mammoth
7
Nancy O’Brien
machine and he decided to start with the recorder’s office and then go to the business office, so
we were going to be the first ones. He came in and he would say, "You have to meet with me,
you have to learn how to keypunch." Well, I knew how to keypunch, that's one thing I came from
DeLaval with because that was my job. They just basically taught me it there; and I did all the
timesheets and the time keeping for the company. I knew about that so we started on a class with
that and he tried to teach us some programming, which was a joke because we didn’t know
anything about it and we [laughter] spent most of our time laughing and fooling around because
we really, if you know Nilus Donnelly; I mean we didn't look at him as like someone that’s
going to teach us to run computers.
GN:
He ran bulldozers.
NO:
Yeah, right, right, but he would come in and say, "Now we're going to learn computers, and I'm
going to teach you." We had some really funny meetings. I had a little step up because I knew
the keypunching so I fell right into that, which is one of the first things you needed to do as far as
punch in grades. Doing a schedule, that's how we really began in our office, we were the first.
GN:
Who were the people you reported to; first there was O'Brien, but then who was there?
NO:
First there was Mrs. O'Brien, and then, I'm trying to think, if Mr. Mortensen was the registrar at
that time. I believe he must have been, but he wasn't in the office with us, that didn't occur until
we moved over to Adrian Hall. He was there, but I think he was her boss at the time, part time,
because he was a retired relief teacher/principle, but I'm pretty sure he was the registrar. At that
8
Nancy O’Brien
time, the Dean was John O'Shea, Brother John O'Shea so he was who we reported to and he was
upstairs in Donnelly; that I remember, in the very beginning. I think also upstairs, was the
teacher education office with Brother Murphy. They were kind of next to each other, so those are
the ones I remember in the beginning that we reported to.
GN:
How about Tony Campilii?
NO:
Tony was very, we were very involved with him because we worked very closely with the
business office. Tony is the one who hired me; I've known him since the day I came here. We
worked close with him because whatever we did affected their billing, which I'm sure still does,
so we were like really tight, close together, we were very involved with him too. I don't know
that you would say reported to him, but we certainly did deal with him a lot.
GN:
Could you say something about the interaction of your offices, to get information? For instance
the debts, you wouldn't let people register or did they register?
NO:
Yeah, we had a very good relationship. We knew what we had to do; we couldn't give out grades
when kids owed money, and the diplomas, we had lists that we had to do, so there was a very
close relationship there. They were… we were downstairs and I believed I think they were up. I
don't know where they were at that time, if they were upstairs or not. We all got together, that
was another thing; when the computers came in, they put us next to each other. They felt we
needed to be near each other, so that's why we took over Adrian Hall. When this computer
started to come in, they put the Computer Center, the Business Office, the Recorder, Registrar's
9
Nancy O’Brien
office, all together in Adrian Hall; when we started out on this new venture. Then the idea was to
get us on the computer first, computerize our records and then the business office. We worked
there and we were in and out of each others offices because we were really very closely related
in the duties that we both did. We had an excellent relationship, all the staff, Tony, and Mrs.
O'Brien, Mr. Mortensen only he was part time, so he was basically doing a lot of, taking in
transfer credits and things like that. He was doing part of the schedule; but eventually a lot of
that really got turned over to us and then we ended up with a full time registrar after he left.
GN:
Was that John Dwyer, who's the first
NO:
I'm trying to think, was John first or was it… I don't think John was first. I think it was John
King. John King was here for about a year, he wasn't here too long, he was a Brother; maybe a
year, year and a half, and then I think it was John Dwyer.
GN:
Do you remember Brother John Malachy?
NO:
Yes, but I was not here when he was here; he was the registrar with Mrs. O'Brien, before I came,
and I think, I don't know if he was full time or part time, so I didn't have any dealings with him.
He was for a while; but when I came, Mr. Mortensen was really the one who was doing it.
GN:
Ok, and he was replaced eventually by--.
NO:
He was probably replaced by John Malachy, right?
10
Nancy O’Brien
GN:
What's the span of years that you were in the office here?
NO:
Thirteen.
GN:
Thirteen years?
NO:
Thirteen years.
GN:
Now, in those thirteen years, the college went through certain development; and you would say
that there was some crystallization in the departments. From where you stood was there… were
each of the academic areas as cooperative, or did they have more problems than others? For
numbers of reasons: like for instance, requirements for diplomas, teacher education needed
certain credits and so on. Did you have any interaction with departments like that?
NO:
Yes, all of them, because I basically, what my job became, well we decided, who graduated. Our
office did; we went through folder by folder; we would stay in the office all hours of the night.
GN:
You mean computers were not used for this?
NO:
No, not in the beginning, oh never, no. It was all, I mean, we would get printouts eventually, but
still. I'd have to go through every file and make sure that it matched, because again, I mean, you
had to do a double check on that sort of thing, and I ended up doing that.
11
Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Did you use an adding machine, or what did they use?
NO:
Yes, we had this old blue slate colored machine that I figured the indexes on, and then you would
type the grades. I typed all the grades on the transcripts too, and then I typed when they got the
diploma, what it was in, and the date, because you had three dates of graduation, which you still
do; January, August, and May. So we did all that, but even after we were on the computer, I
would get the grades off the computer on labels, on student labels and I would have to post them
on the transcripts. I still would have to manually type at the bottom of the transcript that they had
completed the degree and what the degree was. Then I also had to keep those records in order to
make sure we got Bundy money; because we got money for every graduate. So that money was
very important to the college at that time; that was part of my job also.
GN:
Now, while Marist was an all-male institution, did you and other women feel that you were
treated fairly?
NO:
Oh, definitely. [Laughter]
GN:
Favorably?
NO:
Definitely. [Laughter]
GN:
Was there particular consideration given to women because facilities really didn't…
12
Nancy O’Brien
NO:
I don't recall now, do you want me to talk as a staff person or as a student, because I was both?
GN:
Well, as a staff person first and then we will get to the student.
NO:
As a staff person, it was great, it was like a family. There were a lot of secretaries, so there were
a lot of females on campus, I mean as far as secretaries. Older women, younger women, all ages,
as I recall, everybody got along well together. The offices all knew each other, Admissions,
Tom Wade’s office, Dean of Students, Teacher Ed with Brother Murphy, Sandy Doxy was there.
GN:
Oh yes.
NO:
Admissions, I mean all these names come back to me. The Admissions Office; Eileen Young;
who ended up marrying Pete Leone; who is still a city cop. I saw him not too long ago when we
were going to a concert. So the offices, there was, I think, she may even still work here; she was
over in the residence hall. I can't remember her first name now, isn't that awful, she's still here, I
think. So no, and Dave Flynn was in Admissions; his wife worked for us for awhile temporarily,
people in the business office, lot's and lot's of women as far as staff goes as I recall, and very
close knit. Everyone got along, everybody knew each other, everybody helped each other, you
needed something from their office, very friendly, very nice atmosphere to work in.
GN:
When did you become a student here?
NO:
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Nancy O’Brien
I think probably not the first semester, I started fall, ‘96, I believe I was still taking a course up at
Dutchess.
GN:
Stop right there, fall
NO:
‘96, ’66.
GN:
Fall, ‘66.
NO
God, what's wrong with me?
GN:
Ok. [Laughter]
NO:
This is where my age shows, yes fall, 1966. That's when I started, so I probably started my first
course in January, probably 1967.
GN:
Was that evening school?
NO:
Evening, yes, I was the first, when they let girls go in; I was one of the first to go
in but I had to
go in the evening. I mean we're not in the day classes yet, so I started in the evening and my first
course was with Casimir Norkeliunas in German, because I had taken three years of German in
High School and he thought this was just great; that he had a girl in his class that was taking
German, and I remember I felt, there were about thirteen people in the class; they were all IBM
14
Nancy O’Brien
men, so that was a little intimidating, because I not only was the youngest in the class, I was
really very young, only nineteen.
GN:
And the only female?
NO:
Only female, and about twelve IBM men, mostly older men; so he would call on me a lot to
recite things; I had a very strict German teacher so I was fairly good in it because you had to be;
she was tough and I again was the only girl in high school taking it and she was like eighty years
old; and she banged the ruler and whatever. He kind of took advantage of that and made a lot of
jokes about it, I was a little, I felt a little uncomfortable but not too much about you know, being
the only woman, but I guess just being in that class and being a German class and all these
engineers. It was okay because he was really sweet and sensitive to it.
GN:
So you're taking one course, and you really have to go half the distance now right, because you
have a diploma from Dutchess Community College?
NO:
No, I only came here with, I believe I transferred in seventeen credits, so I did all my work at
Marist. I started then, and I was the first employee to take advantage of getting free tuition,
nobody else did it, nobody cared about it; but I did, and I was the only one that did it and then of
course I advanced taking more courses again at night until you were allowed to take them during
the day. Then I started doing it during the day on my lunch hour to get my degree. It took ten
years to do the whole thing, but, once I started to do it, it took a few years, some of the other staff
women, started to see, gee, maybe we should do it. I remember, I think the first ones that did it
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Nancy O’Brien
after me very slowly and I think at that time they were only like auditing, was Joy Kudlow and
Arena Britt and I think Syd Watoff started to do a few things; but I was the first one to get a
degree from here under that program.
GN:
And it took ten years?
NO:
Ten years exactly, I was pregnant with my son when I got my BA in English on May 1976.
GN:
Ok and you majored in English?
NO:
Majored in English and minored in Philosophy.
GN:
How is it that you rose to the chairman of the department? Doctor George Sommer was an
outstanding professor here and yet you didn't take him.
NO:
No, I didn't.
GN:
How did that…
NO:
Well, one of the courses I know, I don't know if he taught Shakespeare, I know he taught
Chaucer, and I had no interest in taking that, so that probably is one of the reasons, but it's
probably the same reason, I minored in philosophy and I never took a course with the Chairman
of the Philosophy Department either, so I don't really think that that is that unusual.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Well it is unusual, but it's not that unusual.
NO:
Is it really? I don't think so; I know Doctor Sommers thought it was, but I didn't. [Laughter]
GN:
Yes, right. Tell me, when you got your degree, were you ever of a mind to leave Marist and seek
a position elsewhere at another great institution in the Hudson Valley?
NO:
Never, never.
GN:
There was no attraction to go to IBM?
NO:
No, never.
GN:
It was too interesting and fun to work here.
NO:
Right, I loved it, I loved every day; I never even took vacation, Tony used to say, "you've got to
make her take her vacation.” He’d have to pay me for it all the time, because I just never wanted
to miss work, I loved it.
GN:
Okay, tell me now, the official coming of co-eds to the campus and what impact did it make?
Did you feel in your office that it was, did they cry more regularly for things they needed than
the guys?
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
No, I really never saw that, not in my office; maybe the business office where they wanted the
money, but no, I didn't see that. The girl's, they kind of stuck together in the beginning; of course
the guy's were really, you know, liked having them around, but I remember they were always
very polite. I mean it was just like a new experience and lot's of fun, and I didn't see anything
negative about it, it was just like a new thing beginning, just like the computer; you know, kind
of different. I think probably maybe in the classrooms is where maybe they might have seen a
difference and maybe the adjustment because there would be so few; even though you had a
certain number enter the school, you might have a class with twenty-seven guy's and maybe two
or three females; so maybe there, but as far as our office goes, no, we didn't see a lot of that
crying. We got just as much complaining and needing help from the girl's as we did from the
guy's, in some way's the guy's probably needed it more.
GN:
Yes. Did you have anything to do with the credits being given to the nurses at St. Francis
Hospital?
NO:
I know we had to record them, but we didn't have a whole lot to do with other than just having to
record them and keep their records, that were pretty much done on their own and just probably
brought to us to record them on transcripts and keep their records. It wasn't done for too long, I
don't believe.
GN:
No, because once that program ceased, shortly after they were not going to be admitted to the
school.
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Nancy O’Brien
NO:
Right, right.
GN:
One other question now; the business of seeing changes at Marist, is what I want you to talk
about. Number one, we talked about the introduction of co-eds; what would you say about the
administrative changes? Were you here for a change from, did you know Brother Paul?
NO:
Not as an administrator.
GN:
Not as an administrator. Ok, then Linus Foy was the President, were you here also for Dennis
Murray?
NO:
When Dennis came in, I was just about to leave, so I saw more, I knew more about Dennis as a
president as a student and then through my being a faculty wife, and then of course meeting him
at many functions and his wife, so I really left my position as Assistant Registrar when he
started.
GN:
Ok, let's back up and talk about Doctor Foy. What were your experiences with him as an
administrator; did you ever have to go to his office for materials or improvement, or did you
write budgets to…
NO:
No, my dealings with him, I dealt mostly with his secretary, Miss Travis.
GN:
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Nancy O’Brien
Oh, yes.
NO:
Ok, so she was like, she did all his work; Linus was just, he would be in our office a lot, you
know, very fast, that was how Linus did everything, in and out, very fast. "Hi, good morning,
any problems?" He would ask you some personal things if you knew something; it would be
official, but he would always talk to you in an unofficial way. I kind of knew him more
personally, just by being in our office all the time, but it was done in a very unofficial personable
way. The stuff that needed to be done officially in the office, Mary Travis would come down and
get what she would need.
GN:
Did you have any protests? Students coming to your office and then not being happy with the
outcome and going on to the President's Office. Was there any kind of difficulty?
NO:
No, not that I recall, as I recall, he was always very approachable. I know there were a couple of
instances where they were trying to get together groups, they would write things in the circle; but
I always felt they always has access what they needed; I don't recall, I think they would mostly
go through Tom Wade, because he was Dean of Students at that time. Linus was always
available to anybody, he was always visible.
GN:
Were there any difficulties involved in the kind of maturing process the development of
departments and programs, do you have to change a lot of…
NO:
20
Nancy O’Brien
We had a lot of problems with scheduling rooms, the academic calendar and the catalog which
came out of admissions and then they did, eventually it went from admissions to our office, so
there were some problems there, and changes of department heads and some department heads
did things one way, and then they would want to change a schedule, you know things like that.
Those times it became difficult when department heads would change naturally because people
worked in different ways, so we would have to keep on top of that all the time, that was our job
too, and then especially when we took over the catalog, getting deadlines in, that was always a
difficult thing, getting grades in on time, calling them on the phone because they hold up
everything; but I'm sure the same thing happens now, incomplete grades, following up on that
sort of stuff. That became more and more of a problem, especially as you got more and more
computerized, got more and more students, needed more and more reports, as I say we needed to
get money in every year to the state for Bundy Money, so your statistics are very important and
they were always asking us now for statistical reports, which we didn't have to do a lot before.
We also did the veterans benefits in my office, I did that also, so that was also important for
financial aid, we worked very close too with financial aid.
GN:
Do you recall who the first controller was?
NO:
The first--.
GN:
He was a brother.
NO:
Gee no, I don't.
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Nancy O’Brien
GN:
Was it Cornelius?
NO:
Russell?
GN:
Yeah.
NO:
Really?
GN:
Ok, I just thought you might…
NO:
No that I didn't know. No, no.
GN:
He's the first to get federal aid.
NO:
No, I did not know that.
GN:
Yeah, well, he's World War II.
NO:
Ok.
GN:
That would be a bitter history, just for the record here as we're going through this. On this
changing, when a new requirement goes in, doesn't it take some time for it to actually be
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Nancy O’Brien
implemented. Now there are students who come that are given catalogs, and given requirements,
don't they go through a period of three or four years here under those requirements or can you
change them?
NO:
They are supposed to as I recall, whatever you came in under and that even affected me, because
I was here for ten years, we had, what you would have to do then is get waivers.
GN:
Right, or find the other catalog
NO:
Yeah right, and with me, within ten years the catalog did change, the requirements changed, the
core courses changed, I mean I'm not going to go into all that, but you were supposed to be held
to the requirements of what the year you began. Someone like myself who was doing part time,
at the end, I did full time, I did go to school full time and worked full time, but I stuck to the
requirements of nineteen sixty-six, so somebody would always have to be up on those
requirements and…
GN:
Was there a sixty-sixty core program?
NO:
Yeah,
GN:
Sixty you chose, and sixty the Department Chair chose?
NO:
Yeah. That was very easy in those days.
23
Nancy O’Brien
GN:
From your vantage point, what would you say Linus Foy's greatest or several of his contributions
would be and then what would Dennis Murray's be? Can you talk about that in general terms?
NO:
I really don't feel I could say, I mean I've seen all the changes it's like a different school, but I
think for the time; from what I remember, I mean Linus was just, he had a vision, it's just his
vision for the future and he was here at the present time when a lot of that just wasn't going to
happen, but I certainly think he knew what was going to happen, but I think his own personal life
changed too, so I mean, that's probably part of it; I think if he had stayed here, I mean my own
personal vision, he would have done just what's happened; I mean I do believe that because he's
a brilliant man and he was a tremendous, hard loyal worker. The Marist Community meant a lot
to him, and I still feel to this day, even though a lot of it is..
GN:
Materially changed
NO:
A lot of credit is given to the technology and all that, I still don't think it would have gotten
anywhere if it didn't have the core people that were here from when I was here. I believe that
with all my heart and soul; and I feel that is the biggest change that I see and it's also the saddest
one because I just feel a lot of the new younger staff don’t have that history, which is, that's life.
I just feel that not having that, and the one's that are still here that still do have it, thank goodness
they're here and have been able to pass on some of that, but I don't know how much of that has
been absorbed by the new people or if they really understand that full meaning of it. I hope they
do and I know there is a lot of people that are retired and still are very active and part of the
24
Nancy O’Brien
community here, so I think that's why we still have this active Marist Community that's still a
great part of the college. I think one of the great things about Dennis is other than his focus on
the future and how important technology is and I've read many statements that he's said and
heard many speeches, but I think one of the most important things is that he built on that
community; he didn't try to eliminate it or dismiss it, he saw from the very beginning the strength
of it, recognized it, and integrated it into what Marist could become. To me, that was the most
important thing, he recognized the importance of that.
GN:
Ok, could you reflect a little bit on Nilus?
NO:
Oh Nilus, he was so wonderful, I loved him. He was just a man of all trades, a man of all
seasons. Could do, I mean very talented man, I still now, even, my husband tells me things, you
know stories now and then about him, you know personal stories.
GN:
What about his projects?
NO:
Yes, he could do everything and he did do everything; I mean we all know the building stories of
the Brother's, you know, out there building the school and the foundations, but look, he's the one
they went to, to start the computer. Who ever thought that, I mean I don't know where that came
from, but just a very friendly, generous, kind open person that also had a vision of what the
college could become to. Very accessible to everybody, to the students, to the person who
cleaned the offices, right up to the President. He was just, and even when I think of him, I think
25
Nancy O’Brien
of someone like Brother Tarcisius in the printing shop, that little old place that that poor guy
used to work in and still get us everything that we needed.
GN:
On the same tone now, can you reflect on some other outstanding members of the faculty that
you saw? If I mention some names you might reflect on?
NO:
Well you know, I do remember to, we didn't talk too much about the administration, but I do
remember the Dean's that I worked under; and they were wonderful. Again, they were strong
parts to our Marist Community. We went from Brother John O'Shea, who also later became
ordained a priest, and I was invited to go to his ordination and I will never forget that, down at
the Capuchin Brothers, and that was wonderful, to see him become a priest. Then he left and I
believe then, the Dean's Office, I think it was Brother LaPietra, and then it was shared between
Kevin Carolan and Jerry Cox, so there were like three of them. They had three distinct functions.
I worked very closely with them and that was great. I think by then, I had become the Assistant
Registrar, so I went from a secretary to an administrative position under them at that time. I
worked with all three of them as I said, and they were great. They believed in what you could do
and they were very supportive; especially Brother LaPietra. If you told him you could do
something, that's all you needed to say, I remember him saying many times, "If you say you can
do it, if you meet the deadline, I believe you", and Jerry and Kevin were the same way. Then
after them, I believe it was Lou Zuccarello, and again, you know, people built on what was
already there, they never tried to really change it. They tried to keep the strengths, which I think
we had from the beginning, they recognized it, they built on it and they just tried to maybe, just
26
Nancy O’Brien
make it better, but not ever replace it or come in and try to change anybody's style. I always had
an effective relationship there, then it turned where I guess Jerry, became more the Dean
GN:
Of students.
NO:
Yeah right, and Lou was more the academic again, but still worked very closely with us. I know
they always, Richard LaPietra, just started a tradition; when we did graduation, how to
pronounce the names of students when you gave out the diplomas. He would come down to our
office and go over every single name with me and with Mrs. O'Brien too, in the beginning, to
pronounce a name, not to make a mistake. That followed, I don't know if they do that today,
but I know Richard did it and I know Lou did it, and Jerry did it and whatever, anybody who was
going to hand out the diploma.
GN:
Yeah, they break up now into the chairs of the various departments.
NO:
Do they, ok, but we started that, you know, they came down and we would go over it, name by
name, so they would pronounce it right.
GN:
On this, the follow up of Lou Zuccarello, would be Andrew Molloy, full time. I think there
might have been a year there when it was more or less vacant; that's not exactly true, but; were
you here for…
NO:
27
Nancy O’Brien
No, I think by then, because I had left in August, of seventy-nine, that was my last year and then,
as I said, Dennis had just taken over, so I think August fifteen. I think my dinner was almost like
the same time he was leaving and I think Andy maybe after that, or for an interim period.
GN:
One year after that.
NO:
Yes, ok, so that was really the end of, no I really just knew him personally he and his wife
Rosemary just through the college.
GN:
How about some of the faculty? Do you remember Roscoe Balch?
NO:
Oh, definitely, yes he and his big hat.
GN:
A Dr. Jeptha Lanning?
NO:
Oh, Jep, he was one of my favorites because he was in the English Department and I was, I knew
a lot about him, going through, his getting his doctorate. That's what I remember too, he and
Cass Norkeliunas, and Tom Casey working on their doctorates, I mean they did a lot of… they
had to come in the office to get copies of things and we were like right there and talking about
how are you doing on that, so I remember that. Those are the personal things I remember. As far
as teachers, they were just wonderful; also the man sitting across from me, I had him, Professor
Nolan, in class too.
GN:
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Nancy O’Brien
Outstanding teacher.
NO:
No, I have to say, one of my biggest surprises and this is not because you are sitting here, but I
knew you more as an instructor, coming in the office, always getting your grades in on time,
always like that, but I never had you in class and I remember when my first class that I took with
you was a night class; I remember, I shouldn't have been amazed, but I was; what a great teacher
you are. I enjoyed the course so much, because I never saw that side of you. I've never seen my
husband teach, and I think that's terrible, because just what I hear people say and just to hear him
talk, I know he's a wonderful teacher, but I've never been able to be taught by him.
GN:
My niece cried after she finished taking your husband's course because there were no more
philosophy courses.
NO:
Yeah, I know, and I've heard that from other's, that's what I'm saying; a lot of times, I didn't get
to see the people I knew in the administrative level, worked with as faculty people in an
administrative area. When I got to get into a class and see them as teachers, it was like wow,
there's a good teacher, I mean you were so funny and good in a classroom and we had such a
great time in the courses.
GN:
You read it just like I wrote it, that's very good. [Laughter]
NO:
No, I'm serious, I really am.
GN:
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Nancy O’Brien
Let's take a different tact. What do you see in the future for Marist, ten years down the line or
twenty-five years down the line? What kind of an institution do you think would be here, when
you look at this library now, is this the beginning of more things, or are we going to lose
something in the transfer in becoming bigger?
NO:
I don't think we will lose anything, I don't know how much bigger they can get, I think they are
going to run out of land if they haven't already, so I don't know. Just certainly what they have
done so far is just wonderful, I mean the vision has been there. I know they just recently got
more money so somebody is doing their homework and they know the needs. I think, and this is
just a personal thing; I think the technology is great and I think the future is there, but I would
just hate for them to lose the human aspect of what people themselves can do, and not always
depend on it because the world is still made up of human beings. I just hope that the Marist
commitment never changes. I hope they keep in contact with the alumnae, the families, the
children and I know that they are always very active in that now and I hope that stays the same.
You still have to have that foundation if Marist is going to be unique. I think they are unique now
and I would want them to stay that way; and they won't stay that way unless they look at some of
those other areas. Keep doing the technology, but do more, like with your teacher-ed. I got my
Master's Degree last August in Ed-Psychology and I know what how important that was to me,
and what I learned being with the students and some new teachers, some old teachers and a lot of
the humanness that's in those classes. I'd like to see that expand and what my daughter is getting
out of it. I would like to see more programs for that, you know, like maybe a child care center on
campus. I know a lot of colleges are doing that and I don't see Marist going in that way and it's
an excellent way to train their student teachers, and excellent way to get their special-ed training.
30
Nancy O’Brien
You know, to have the students that are here, have their children, some of them need babysitting
services. I'd like to see some things go in that area.
GN:
Do you remember the swimming pool?
NO:
Yes I do, I even swam in it. I brought my kids to it in the very beginning.
GN:
Maybe we should build another swimming pool outside and integrate a summer program.
NO:
Wouldn't hurt, it's a great summer camp for faculty and student children and Upward Bound and
things like that, if you still have that.
GN:
Yes, right; and the location of Marist, will it remain a focal point in it's position here to draw
people, do you think?
NO:
Oh yeah.
GN:
The campus has really become a gem, really.
NO:
Yes, it's beautiful, just beautiful.
GN:
Is there anything you would like to add that I didn't ask, in terms of your experience?
NO:
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Nancy O’Brien
No, not really, I still miss the old days when I go to the faculty receptions. I hardly know anyone
anymore; there are a lot of adjuncts. I think that's the only thing that I would be careful about.
We have a lot of adjuncts, and I know there's financial reasons for that, but I've heard statements
from students and from parents, even people where I work now. I have people, matter of fact I
have a faculty person that comes to where I work, the children do, and I here statements that
there's just a lot of part-time teachers, always getting different ones; so I think you just have to be
careful about that. I think department chairmen recognize now from what I understand and I
hope they pay more attention to that. Other than that, I think that they will do a good job and they
will be successful as they are.
GN:
In closing, what would be some of the fondest memories of your long career here? Either in your
work career or your student career or as a wife to Kevin?
NO:
Well, I guess I'll do a little bit on each one. As far as faculty, just wonderful, caring committed
teachers, all the time, even now, the new faculty. I've experienced the older faculty, those that
have passed on, have retired; because I just finished my master's degree. I came back twenty
years later after the BA degree, that as tough for me in the beginning, I felt really like a duck out
of water, but, excellent faculty now that I've had… really still committed even though some of
them were still here and some are new, so that's still here and I think that's a good thing. I've
seen that, and through my children I've seen it. As far as when I first came here, the camaraderie
that was here and the Christmas parties that we had, which we don't have anymore, they were
lots of fun and very personal. Now that personal touch isn't there because we don't have it
anymore. I don't know why. I think that was something that we tried to split up into three groups;
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Nancy O’Brien
we had a maintenance one, we had a prison one, you know for the prison people, we still had the
faculty one, and then all of a sudden we did away with all of it. I guess that's just because we
grew too big. That was one of the personal touches that we don't have anymore. The September
reception, you get together at Dennis' house and that's really nice, but a lot of people don't know
anybody anymore and they kind of stay in little clicks, but I guess again, that's life. As far as my
fondest thing, I guess, is that I met my husband here and that was the greatest thing about my
education here; my children did, so of course I take that away as a very, very special, special
thing. I have made some very good friends with some very really… and I just say this as a word,
but some really good, honest, caring committed people, which I think is the best thing to get out
of an education, and is what I am proudest of in my children and my husband. That's the kind of
people they are, that's what I feel the proudest of and I hope that I've gotten some of that from
here in the jobs that I've gone on to and that I've been able to bring that commitment to the areas
that I've worked in since I've left.
GN:
Thank you very much.
NO:
Ok, you're welcome.
O'Brien, Nancy Cover Pages
O'Brien, Nancy