Interview with: DELLA LEE SUE
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Lily Jandrisevits
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections




Transcript: Della Lee Sue

Interviewee: Della Lee Sue
Interviewer: Jan Stivers
Interview Date: 3 February 2022
Location: James A. Cannavino Library

Topic: Marist College History

Subject Headings:
Sue, Della Lee
Marist College Faculty



Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)



Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)--Social Aspects



Marist College. School of Management



Marist College. Economics, Accounting, and Finance Department

Summary: Dr. Della Lee Sue discusses her early life, her academic experiences, and her time as a
professor at Marist College. She talks about the changes she has seen at Marist within the School
of Management and within the college at large post-COVID, as well as her hopes for the school
in the future.



Jan Stivers (
00:00:01
):
Okay. The counter is going, great. Okay. So for the record, today is Thursday, February 2nd, or
February 3rd, 2022. My name is JS and I'm interviewing Dr. Della Sue, a professor of economics
and a highly valued member of the Marist community. This interview is part of the Marist
college oral history project, which seeks to capture the experiences of members of the Marist
community who played an active role in the development of the college. So we're grateful to
you, Della, for agreeing to make this contribution to the archives. And we'd like to begin this
record for the archives by asking you to share information about your background. So we'll start
with, where and when you were born.
Della Lee Sue (
00:00:47
):
Oh, okay. You're talking about personal background? Sure. Yeah. Actually kind of ironically,
birthday- I was born on July 5th, 1952, and I was actually born at what used to be the St. Francis
hospital across the street.
JS (
00:01:02
):
Oh, Wow.
DLS (
00:01:04
):
My father was an engineer and he went to University of Miami on the GI Bill and then he
graduated from the University of Miami in 1951. So IBM was his first job out of college. And so
my parents moved to Poughkeepsie for the first job. And so that's why I was born in
Poughkeepsie.
JS (
00:01:27
):



2
Della Lee Sue

And how long did you live in Poughkeepsie?
DLS (
00:01:28
):
Not long. My mother didn't like Poughkeepsie very much, and so we moved to California,
Southern California, Long Beach. We lived there for a year and then we moved to near Fullerton,
closer to Anaheim, and that was for a year. Then we moved to Sacramento for a year. And then
we moved back to the east coast, to Long Island, I was in East Meadow for a year. That's where I
went to kindergarten. And then they moved to Hicksville, Long Island and that's basically where
I grew up. Okay. So we moved around a lot for the first six years.
JS (
00:02:05
):
Yeah. When you were so little that home was still just the family. Yeah. So tell me more about
the family that you were born into.
DLS (
00:02:16
):
Okay.
JS (
00:02:18
):
No brothers and sisters, right?
DLS (
00:02:19
):
No, I'm an only child. Let's see. My father immigrated from China when he was about 13 or 14
years old and lived in Baltimore for a number of years. And then I guess he served in the army,
army or air force, and then went to college. And my mother was from Rock Springs, Wyoming,


3
Della Lee Sue

where my grandfather was originally immigrated from China originally for the railroad. And
then when the railroad was finished, it was the coal mines.
JS (
00:02:57
):
Wow.
DLS (
00:02:58
):
And so then my mother and her siblings were born and raised in Rock Springs. And then as each
one of them grew up and graduated from high school. They left, there was no reason to stay in
Rock Springs. And half of- there were seven kids- three of them migrated to the New York area
and four of them migrated to the San Francisco Bay area. So when I was growing up half of my
relatives on my mother's side were New York-based, the other half were California-based.
JS (
00:03:31
):
It's very interesting, especially what brought your father, your grandfather, to this country. That's
really interesting, that he came for--.
DLS (
00:03:38
):
Yeah. I don't know if it was his idea. I don't know how the opportunity came up, but yeah.
JS (
00:03:44
):
Yeah. Tell me about your early school experiences.
DLS (
00:03:48
):
My early school?


4
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:03:50
):
Well, elementary school.
DLS (
00:03:51
):
I grew up in Hicksville, which was a suburban community. Very nondescript [laugh]. Very
nondescript. Ethnically there were not too many- there was not much ethnic adversity.
[Affirmative] It was actually a big high school. There were 1,100 in my graduating class.
JS (
00:04:16
):
Oh my gosh. There were 50 in mine.
DLS (
00:04:18
):
So it was huge. Well, you figure this was like post World War II, Long Island, suburban
community. [Affirmative] And so Hicksville was right in the middle of Long Island.
[Affirmative] And, I guess the population at that time was like 50,000 and there was only one
high school, so. Yeah. So there were a 1,000- 1,100 in my graduating class.
JS (
00:04:37
):
So what made you choose Mount Holyoke for college?
DLS (
00:04:41
):
Quite frankly, my parents.
JS (
00:04:43
):
Tell me more.


5
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:04:45
):
I was always brought up with the idea- I was raised with the notion? Expectation? That I was
going to go to college. [Affirmative] That was a given. So that wasn't a choice. And then I
remember when I was in high school, I guess more likely junior or senior year, started thinking
about colleges and we did the tours. I knew I didn't want to go too far away. I knew I wanted to
go away from home, and I knew also I didn't want to go too far away from home so we kind
looked in the Northeast and, we visited a bunch of schools and, Mount Holyoke-- they loved
Mount Holyoke. I was very naive.
JS (
00:05:34
):
You were guided by them?
DLS (
00:05:34
):
I didn't really have any-- I knew I was going to college, I had no expectation of what college was
like. I did have the idea that college was football games and parties and stuff like that. So, in
retrospect, I think if I had really thought about it, I probably would've looked more for quote-
unquote bigger schools, but, yeah.
JS (
00:06:03
):
Your daughter ended up going to Mount Holyoke.
DLS (
00:06:06
):
Yeah. Both of them did.
JS (
00:06:07
):


6
Della Lee Sue

Oh, both of them. So, I would presume it was a good experience for you?
DLS (
00:06:11
):
No, it wasn't.
JS (
00:06:12
):
It wasn't. Wow.
JS (
00:06:13
):
No, I actually didn't like it. But looking back, I don't think I would've liked any college. I think,
quite frankly, I was really naive. And, hindsight is wonderful. [Affirmative] And if I knew what I
knew now, I probably would've had a really good time in college, but I had no idea of what to
expect.
DLS (
00:06:34
):
I made some really good friends, so it was okay. Mount Holyoke was a very protected
environment. [Affirmative] I didn't really like it. And actually when Katrina, my oldest, when
she was looking at-- when she was considering college, I guess she must have been a junior in
high school. She was really interested in Williams college and Amherst on paper, you know, and
the website and by looking at books, and so Carl had more time flexibility. So he took her up to
Massachusetts to visit these schools. And when she visited Williams, she didn't like it. She just
didn't- it didn't feel right to her when she was on campus. [Affirmative] So then they, they go
over to Amherst. Similarly, she didn't really like it. So, Carl said, well, we're up here, let's go
visit Smith and Mount Holyoke, because we're here, and she takes her to Mount Holyoke. She
calls me from her cell phone. She goes, Mom, we're at Mount Holyoke. And I said, oh, I started


7
Della Lee Sue

laughing. And she goes, Dad said, we're in the area, we might as well visit it. And I said, okay
fine. And she goes, Mom, I really like this place. [Laugh] And my reaction was, you're kidding
[laugh] and she said, no, I really like it here. She goes, it feels, you know--.
JS (
00:07:50
):
A goodness of fit.
DLS (
00:07:53
):
Yes, and so then actually, then ironically a year and a half later when she was actually applying
to colleges, well, she applied to a bunch of colleges and then she narrowed it down to Barnard in
New York city and Mount Holyoke, and she had done a summer program at Barnard
[affirmative] and Barnard then was her first choice because she'd spent the summer there and she
loved it. Barnard was her first choice. So both schools had a visitation day in April and I
remember I took her down on a Thursday. It was after my class. I took her down to Barnard and I
was dropping her off. And the idea was Carl was going to pick her up the next day. And so we
got there early and they said, well, you know- they were really nice- they were willing to give
her a voucher to go see a movie, which seemed a little bit kind of odd and cold to me, but I
figured, okay, fine. This is the way they do things, because we were early [affirmative] and I
said, no, we'll just entertain ourselves. So we walked her on campus. I gave her a tour of
Columbia as I knew it as a grad student. She gave me a tour of Barnard as she had spent the
summer and we wandered around and you know, I think we maybe got a bite to eat. And then we
went back when it was time to meet the other students that would be there for the visit. And then
the college students would be their hosts. And so, I dropped her off and she kind of-- I got the
sense she was a little bit nervous, but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it. So I just said,


8
Della Lee Sue

okay, now remember if anything call, but dad will be here tomorrow to pick you up. Okay. And
so I left and that was the end of it. And then, after that I said, well, what did you think, did you
like it? She goes- her response was, it was nice. And I said, could you see yourself going there?
And she goes, yeah. So the next weekend we have a visitation at Mount Holyoke and I take her
up there. And I remember going in- I brought Toby with me too. We were going to stay
overnight somewhere else. But I remember, they got students together and they were like
chatting and everything. And then the host college students came to pick up the high school
students. She never even turned around and said goodbye to me. [Laugh] She just left. And I
remember thinking, okay.
JS (
00:10:16
):
[Laugh] She's comfortable here.
DLS (
00:10:19
):
And the next day on the way home, she said, I'm coming here.
JS (
00:10:23
):
Oh. That's nice.
DLS (
00:10:24
):
And I figured she would, just the fact that she felt really comfortable there. Yeah. And it wasn't
her first choice either. I mean, but yeah, so that's kind of the way it works.
JS (
00:10:32
):
It's interesting.


9
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:10:33
):
Yeah. And then Toby went there too for her own reasons, but they were the right reasons for her.
JS (
00:10:39
):
I'm going to come back to you.
DLS (
00:10:41
):
Okay.
JS (
00:10:42
):
It looks to me from what I read online, that economics has always been your focus.
DLS (
00:10:48
):
No. Yes and no. Okay. I went- when I was in high school, I had said I wanted to major in math,
and that's what I did. So when I went I majored in math and I was really naïve and really, really
narrowly focused. So all I took were the courses that I needed to take, their core distribution.
And I took all these math courses. And so it's the beginning of my junior year. And I finished all
the math courses. So there was nothing left to take. And so I thought, okay, so it was almost like
now, what am I gonna do? And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the math courses and my roommate at the
time her father worked with American Express, I think, and she was an econ major and she said
to me-- she goes, why don't you take an econ course? She goes, I think you'd really like it. And
so I did. And so it was a nice blend with math. Yeah. So I owe the economic section to one of
my former roommates.
JS (
00:11:47
):


10
Della Lee Sue

[Affirmative] That's interesting. Yeah. An unusual path into that. Yeah. Why did you choose
Columbia for your doctoral studies?
DLS (
00:11:56
):
Simply because it was in New York City. Yeah. I actually- after college, I went to Barnard. Not
Barnard- I went to, Boston University for a year. They had a one year master's program and I
had, again, this notion that I wanted to live in Boston, you know, so I went to BU for a year and
once I got to Boston, I didn't really like it. Just as a city. So then I thought, well now where am I
gonna go? And I actually had a professor at Boston university who was a visiting professor, who
was a professor from the University of Maryland at College Park. And he, quite frankly, he sort
of thought I was out of place at BU and at one point he asked me, he said, why are you here?
And I said, cause I thought I wanted to live in Boston. And he said, okay. He goes, what are you
gonna do now? Because it was a one year program. I said, I don't know. So he said, why don't
you consider graduate school? And he said, why don't you come down to the University of
Maryland? And so I applied to University of Maryland, College Park. But then I thought, well,
you know, he's got a good idea, but where do I want to go? So I also applied to Penn, to Wharton
and I applied to Columbia and I got in to all of them. And then when I thought about it, where do
I really wanna live? I thought I wanna live in New York. And so I chose Columbia mainly
because it was in New York, and that was the only reason I applied.
JS (
00:13:18
):
Wow. Wow. Wharton boy, they missed out on you.
DLS (
00:13:23
):


11
Della Lee Sue

[Laugh] You know what the irony is? This is sort of a little bit of a side note, but as I mentioned,
I didn't like Mount Holyoke. I took most of my economics courses at Amherst college and when
it came time to applying to grad schools, both when I went to BU and then later when I applied
for, all my recommendations came from Amherst faculty.
JS (
00:13:44
):
Isn't that interesting.
DLS (
00:13:44
):
Yeah. Because I liked them. They were-
JS (
00:13:47
):
Again, goodness of fit.
DLS (
00:13:49
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:13:50
):
So tell me about your work life before you came to Marist, after you got your doctorate.
DLS (
00:13:55
):
It was really scattered. Basically it was as a grad-- before, or between BU and Columbia, I spent
a summer in DC working for what was then health education and welfare, just kind of as a
research assistant. And then while I was at Columbia in grad school, I had various jobs as a
research assistant/teaching assistant, but one of the nice things about New York was there were a


12
Della Lee Sue

lot of job opportunities. So I had several jobs. Most of them were sort of in the nonprofit- doing,
basically research/ research projects. That was most of my work experience. Yeah.
JS (
00:14:33
):
So Marist was your first full-time teaching position?
DLS (
00:14:39
):
Yes, and I never expected, never planned or expected to be teaching.
JS (
00:14:45
):
To have a life as a professor?
DLS (
00:14:46
):
Yeah. I kind of thought I would want to do research either for nonprofit organizations in New
York or maybe, maybe even corporations. But I thought I would do economic research, not
teaching.
JS (
00:15:01
):
So what drew you to Marist?
DLS (
00:15:04
):
Basically living up here.
JS (
00:15:06
):
Oh, because you and Carl had moved to Cragsmoor.


13
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:15:08
):
Yeah, we moved up here and I took a long time to finish my dissertation. So when I finally
finished, it was-- the kids were little, so teaching part-time was an opportunity to earn some
money, get out of the house, and try and figure out what I wanted to do. So I actually taught part-
time at Marist and part-time at SUNY New Paltz.
JS (
00:15:36
):
[Affirmative] How long were you part-time?
DLS (
00:15:38
):
About four years. I was at New Paltz every Monday and Tuesday night and I was here at Marist
basically Monday and Thursday during the day. I don't know if you-- Chet Kobos was--.
JS (
00:15:49
):
Oh, I remember Chet.
DLS (
00:15:50
):
Yeah, I love Chet.
JS (
00:15:51
):
I had his wife in class.
DLS (
00:15:53
):
Oh, did you really? Oh, she was, I liked her a lot.
JS (
00:15:55
):


14
Della Lee Sue

I did too. I did too.
DLS (
00:15:56
):
Yeah, but Chet would give me like a 9:30 and a 12:30 class on Monday/Thursday.
JS (
00:16:01
):
[Affirmative] Wow, wow. That's nice to remember Chet. So I was going to ask you if your
expectations for being a faculty member at Marist were met. If what you found was what you
expected. But, because you had been a part-timer, your expectations were probably shaped by-
they were accurate, because you were here.
DLS (
00:16:26
):
Yeah. One of the things that I liked about Marist was it was a very congenial environment. It was
very friendly. It was just easy to be here [affirmative]. It just felt good. I remember at the time
there was an empty office in Dyson on the third floor that was used by adjuncts. It was like one
room--.
JS (
00:16:56
):
That's right. That's right.
DLS (
00:16:57
):
Anyone could use it, and Helen Rothberg's office was right next to that, and she was just really
friendly. And so when I would be in there, because Chet would give me 9:30 and 12:30, so like
from 11:00 to 12:30, I would just sort of sit in there and like prepare for classes. And she was


15
Della Lee Sue

like really friendly. So, she was like the friendliest, but there were a lot of other faculty members
that were really very friendly there. While I was there, they were just very welcoming.
JS (
00:17:25
):
I think we'll probably circle back to this topic later. But it's a good one. You know, the culture,
the environment.
DLS (
00:17:31
):
I also got the feeling at Marist, what struck me was it was a place where I honestly felt that
administration, faculty, and students tended to work together.
JS (
00:17:44
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:17:44
):
That was my initial impression.
JS (
00:17:47
):
Well, this kind of relates to a question I was gonna ask later, so let me move into it now. And
that is, when you arrived, were you able to detect the Marist brothers influence? Like, did you
have a sense that some of that congenial welcoming environment was related to the college's
traditions? The mission that was rooted in the Marist brothers? Or was that not too obvious?
DLS (
00:18:18
):
That wasn't too obvious to me.


16
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:18:20
):
Okay.
DLS (
00:18:20
):
It became more obvious to me once I was full-time, and quite frankly, it was through brother
Donald. Through brother Donald Kelly. I actually have what I consider the good fortune to have
been part of the grievance committee. This was before my tenure, with brother Donald and
Helen, and it was very interesting working with the two of them, and it was insightful. It was
helpful. They were very, very good to work for, work with and work for on that committee.
JS (
00:19:02
):
So you've mentioned, Chet Kobos, Helen Rothberg, Brother Don Kelly. Were there other Marist
faculty/ staff/ administrators that you could point to and say they helped me to be successful
here.
DLS (
00:19:19
):
Yeah. Some are here, some are-- I didn't know him well, but Jack Kelly was, I think the first-
JS (
00:19:28
):
Yeah, I was thinking about him.
DLS (
00:19:31
):
He was the first dean, I think, in the School of Management. And so he was the Dean when I was
here as an adjunct and he was always very friendly and very available. And I remember not
reaching out to him a whole lot, but the interaction that I had with him was very positive and it


17
Della Lee Sue

was very warm. He had a nice sense of humor. So brother John Kelly, remember, I didn't know
him well. And then when I was hired as visiting and then when it became a tenure track, it was
Gordon Banavic, who was at Marist for only, I think, five years. And as I understand, it kind of
got the School of Management through AACSB. I didn't know him real well, but he gave me
really good advice. That I think was good advice [affirmative]. One of the things that he told me
was-- well, when he hired me first year visiting, he said, chances are it will be two years, but I
can only do it one year at a time, but we're going through AACSB trying to get the accreditation.
So he said, I really don't have the time to spend looking for someone in economics. So, chances
are, it'll be two years. And then he said, but while you're here, the advice I remember he gave me
was, he said, make yourself as visible as possible. Because he says we're all caught up in the
accreditation- make yourself as visible as possible. So Rob Walsh was--.
JS (
00:21:01
):
Gosh, I remember Rob.
DLS (
00:21:01
):
And we still keep in touch. He was the department chair, and I remember he gave me, and there
was another, Karen Gray was visiting also full-time. He gave us a schedule of various principles
of micro/macro that he needed covered along with another guy, Fred Tyler, who was an adjunct.
Okay, and he said to the three of us, he goes, I need these courses covered. You guys figure out
what schedule you want and just let me know who's teaching what.
JS (
00:21:34
):
How terrific.


18
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:21:34
):
And I thought this was really good.
JS (
00:21:36
):
Yes.
DLS (
00:21:36
):
And it worked out perfectly because Fred lived locally and he said he kind of didn't really care.
Karen lived far away. So she wanted to reduce the number of days she was on campus. But
Gordon told me, he said you should maximize. So it worked with my kids' schedule. There was
one semester, a couple semesters, I was teaching Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday.
JS (
00:21:55
):
Wow.
DLS (
00:21:55
):
But it was all during the day though. All my classes started after 9:30 and I was done by 2:00.
JS (
00:22:00
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:22:00
):
So it worked with my kids' bus schedule.
JS (
00:22:02
):


19
Della Lee Sue

Yeah.
DLS (
00:22:02
):
But it did maximize being on campus, but it was good because I got to know people.
JS (
00:22:06
):
That is, and that was good advice from Gordon.
DLS (
00:22:08
):
Yeah, excellent advice. Yeah.
JS (
00:22:10
):
And I can see, from what Rob Walsh, turning this over to you- the schedule over to you, I can
see where you would see faculty, administration, and students working together. Well, I certainly
know that that's not the case everywhere. There are some people who feel that their schedules
have been designed to be punitive.
DLS (
00:22:31
):
Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah. I know--.
JS (
00:22:34
):
I'm glad that wasn't your experience.
DLS (
00:22:36
):
In the department of economics, accounting and finance, it's always been. I remember after that,
they always... I always feel like they gave us a choice and I was department chair for six years.


20
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:22:47
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:22:48
):
About six years ago. But, I remember, I always asked my colleagues, give me your preferences.
And everyone always asked me, and since then they have always asked me what, you know.
JS (
00:23:00
):
That's very nice.
DLS (
00:23:02
):
Yeah. I like it.
JS (
00:23:03
):
That's very nice.
DLS (
00:23:04
):
Yeah. It seems to work.
JS (
00:23:05
):
So you mentioned being chair and I would like to move into that a little bit.
DLS (
00:23:09
):
Okay.
JS (
00:23:09
):


21
Della Lee Sue

One of the things I'd like to hear about your experiences as chair, but also about how that was
impacted by a lot of the change at the top that you've had in the School of Management, a lot of
leadership change, right?
DLS (
00:23:27
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:23:27
):
The number of-- like I was here 40 years, I've worked under two different deans.
DLS (
00:23:32
):
Okay.
JS (
00:23:33
):
You know, think of how many deans you've worked under.
DLS (
00:23:36
):
As department chair?
JS (
00:23:40
):
Well, just, I'm not really asking how many deans were you working under. I just wanna say, you
know, how- what was that like being a chair and being a faculty member also with the frequent
administrative changes, not frequent, but... with administrative changes.
DLS (
00:23:57
):


22
Della Lee Sue

Okay. When I was-- Elmore Alexander was the Dean for, I think he was there for about six or
seven years. It wasn't more than seven, but that's about the time he was there. And he had asked
me if I would be the department chair and the department was fine with that. And then I did it for
three years and then renewed it again. And in my last year, Elmore said that he would be leaving.
So I knew he would be leaving. And so Larry Singleton came in after Elmore. And so I worked
for, basically under, Elmore for five years, Larry one year.
JS (
00:24:44
):
I didn't really understand, okay.
DLS (
00:24:44
):
So it was really just one Dean.
JS (
00:24:47
):
So did the changes in administration have an impact on you as a faculty member or not so much?
DLS (
00:24:54
):
Yeah. They did. It was an eye opener on what goes on in life and in the workplace. One of the
things with economics is because economics is not- we're liberal arts and so we're not business,
we're not under the AECSB umbrella.
JS (
00:25:13
):
Right.
DLS (
00:25:13
):


23
Della Lee Sue

Okay, and so administration, like the deans would kind of ignore us. And at first- I know the
econ department's very, very small. At first, I remember and I think my colleagues and I felt
somewhat similar, at least the way I felt. And I think they, I got the feeling they felt similar to
me. We kind of, sort of, resented it. I mean, we sort of felt like we were foster children. But then
as things got-
JS (
00:25:48
):
Intense?
DLS (
00:25:49
):
Crazier and crazier in terms of personalities. And then there were more and more kind of, I want
to call it policies/restrictions from AACSB that was making life I think somewhat difficult for a
lot of the business/accounting faculty that, after a while I know a couple of my faculty, my
colleagues and myself in economics, we began to like being the foster child because we were
ignored.
JS (
00:26:14
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:26:15
):
And we felt like we were doing what we felt was a good job, you know. We weren't trying to
slack off, but it gave me more of an opportunity to do stuff outside the School of Management.
And so as long as I could be productive and do good stuff, that was good. And so I, it got to be
nice.


24
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:26:35
):
Yeah, I can see that.
DLS (
00:26:36
):
And we kind of joke now that they're, because they're looking for a new Dean, and everybody's
like a little bit apprehensive. Gee, I wonder who we're gonna get? You know. But one of my
friends, I always say, well, whoever they get, hopefully we'll like the person, and if not, by the
time they realize that economics is around, they'll probably be ready to retire, so. [Laugh] But it's
been an eye opener. Yeah, we've been, what I try a lot of times to do is just fly under the radar.
JS (
00:27:07
):
Sure, yeah. Right. You made a successful transition to online teaching, both hybrid and fully
online. As well, of course, as having success in regular classroom/ face-to-face teaching. So can
you talk to me a little bit about online teaching and the process of making that transition to online
teaching?
DLS (
00:27:34
):
Yeah, I think I had actually good peers or good training to begin with. My first online experience
was with Jeff Black, I was teaching at Marist as an adjunct, and I don't know if you knew Geoff
Black?
JS (
00:27:59
):
I do remember him, yeah.
DLS (
00:28:00
):


25
Della Lee Sue

And then he left, he went to--.
JS (
00:28:04
):
I thought he was in Texas.
DLS (
00:28:05
):
Boise, Idaho.
JS (
00:28:05
):
Idaho, Okay.
JS (
00:28:05
):
Because he, and he explained to me he was from the west coast, I think. So it was an opportunity
for him to be closer to family/friends, where he had grown up and when he left, he had just
started teaching an online- it was an MBA course, an econ course. And he asked me if I would
be his TA, but he was open about it. He told me, he said that he was leaving and he was saying
that he was thinking that I could then take over the course. So that was very nice. I thought that
was very nice planning on his part.
JS (
00:28:39
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:28:39
):
Not to leave Marist high and dry. And he was really, really helpful. He showed me exactly what
he did and why, and we worked together on what he was doing.


26
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:28:49
):
And was that--.
DLS (
00:28:49
):
He transitioned me into teaching it.
JS (
00:28:52
):
The actual course that you would be teaching? [Affirmative] Oh wow. Okay. Not just how to
teach online, but how to teach this content online. [Affirmative] Oh, that's terrific.
DLS (
00:29:00
):
And then, similarly, several years later, Rich McGovern in the Math department did the same
thing. He had been teaching the statistics course in the MBA program thoroughly online, and
then he got to a point where he didn't wanna do it anymore. [Affirmative] So he asked me if I
would be willing to do it and I don't remember if I was a TA for a year or if he just kind of gave
me--.
JS (
00:29:29
):
Let you lurk or something.
DLS (
00:29:30
):
Yeah, but again, he kind of explained what he did and why. And so I feel like with respect to
online teaching, I had a couple of good mentors.
JS (
00:29:42
):


27
Della Lee Sue

It's interesting. That's really, really helpful to know and I think- I hope people hear that. That that
is the key, that one-on-one almost handholding is the key. [Affirmative] It's interesting that it
came from other faculty members who were teachers rather than from the department of
academic computing or digital learning or whatever, you know, is the current-- I guess digital
learning now. So rather than just training, sort of at the generic level for everybody.
DLS (
00:30:12
):
But it's funny that you bring that up because I think times, at least for me, I think times have
changed.
JS (
00:30:18
):
Okay.
DLS (
00:30:19
):
To talk about one of the frustrations that I currently have is that when we went into the March
2020 lockdown, okay, and everybody had to transition to being online. Okay, so everybody just
really kind of scrambled and did the best they could, okay. And then we had the next academic
year and I remember, AAC, Thom Wermuth, and digital education were making a big, big, big,
big push for robust iLearn sites. [Affirmative] And I remember taking, they offered several
courses, and I remember taking the courses and I remember buddying up with Carol Friedman
who teaches accounting. And we took them separate but we would talk about it, like in that
section, you know, we would get together. It was during the summer. So we would talk on the
phone, you know, about different, they would have videos and stuff and different things that you
could try. And she, and I talked about it, but I don't know many other people who took those


28
Della Lee Sue

courses. I mean, I don't know if they did or if they didn't, but then, I really do use a lot of what
they gave us. They have different shelves now: basic, intermediate, advanced. So I use the
intermediate, but I always use their templates and I change them whenever I have trouble. I think
John Cory knows me too well, but you know, he's extremely helpful. So now I do go to digital
education, or --.
JS (
00:31:58
):
I did find them very helpful.
DLS (
00:31:59
):
They're extremely helpful.
JS (
00:32:01
):
But there wasn't anybody in my department who was very enthusiastic about it. Not too much.
DLS (
00:32:08
):
And when I've since visited classes, I find that people don't have robust iLearn sites. And I think-
-.
JS (
00:32:17
):
Why would you not?
DLS (
00:32:18
):


29
Della Lee Sue

I sort of wonder why not. Yeah. And, um, so I don't know, to what extent people really do, I
think take advantage of those templates that they have. So it's kind of interesting. And when I've
asked people, they don't seem very interested, so.
JS (
00:32:32
):
Yeah, I've found the same. Well, one thing that I do know about you is that you never hesitate to
put effort into your work and this does take more effort. There's no question. It takes more effort.
Speaking of more effort, you started here teaching undergraduate courses.
DLS (
00:32:50
):
Right.
JS (
00:32:50
):
And then you added grad courses eventually. You also taught honors courses. And did you teach
a first year seminar?
DLS (
00:32:59
):
No, I haven't done that.
JS (
00:33:00
):
Okay. But so your teaching- the service that you give the college through your teaching is quite
varied. Undergrad, grad, honors.
DLS (
00:33:11
):
I don't do grad school courses anymore, but--.


30
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:33:14
):
Okay. But you did?
DLS (
00:33:15
):
Did, yep.
JS (
00:33:16
):
Including a stats course.
DLS (
00:33:18
):
Yeah. They were part of the MBA program, but yeah.
JS (
00:33:25
):
I think that's not only commendable, but also kind of uncommon. I think there are some people
who always wanna be teaching a new course and enjoy the intellectual stimulation that comes
from a new course, but there are also some people who are dismayed at the prospect of all that
new prep.
DLS (
00:33:51
):
Okay. Well I mean I can relate to that because I don't know that I've ever really taught a course
just once. You know I think the benefit of teaching is if you can teach a course more than once.
JS (
00:34:08
):
The third time through it's a charm, isn't it?
DLS (
00:34:11
):


31
Della Lee Sue

Yeah. First time is a lot of work, as you know. Second time, it's still a lot of work. Yeah. The
third time is great because then you can really just tweak. It becomes fun.
JS (
00:34:22
):
It's really getting good.
DLS (
00:34:22
):
It becomes really fun. Because you can really just change it.
JS (
00:34:25
):
And you know that it's working. You're not having so many mistakes. So you also have a strong
reputation as a sponsor of student research. I remember you telling me about taking students,
even with you, to conferences where they could present their papers.
DLS (
00:34:44
):
Okay.
JS (
00:34:45
):
I guess you had helped them with the research, helped them to submit the proposal, it was
accepted and you took them to the professional meeting. So tell me about that. What was that
like?
DLS (
00:34:57
):
That's always been fun because it gives you an opportunity to get to know them a little better. I
know the first time I started doing this was quite a number of years ago where I was on the


32
Della Lee Sue

honors council committee. And I think Rose De Angelis was the chair and there was an honors
program conference, but she couldn't go. So she asked me if I would go and I said, sure. So I
remember chaperoning two students, and it was fun. It was really neat. They were both English
majors and one had done an honors paper that was more on literature and the other had done an
honors paper that was on DIA beacon, the art--.
JS (
00:35:43
):
DIA Beacon, yeah.
DLS (
00:35:44
):
So that was really pretty cool. Yeah. That was really fun. One of the things that I liked about that
was it was quite frankly not economics, not business, so it was really different. You know, it was
really fun.
JS (
00:35:58
):
But you sponsored student research in economics, right? The courses that you teach.
DLS (
00:36:02
):
Yeah. One of the things that I like now that Marist has is the honors program. They now have to
do the honors thesis. So I've worked with a few students on the honors senior thesis and that's
been a lot of fun. Yeah.
JS (
00:36:14
):


33
Della Lee Sue

Yeah, I did one of those too, but I didn't realize I should have been much more on top of it. You
know, I should have had a more active role than I did, but this is not an interview about me. But
it's just triggered a little bit of guilt.
DLS (
00:36:27
):
It's interesting about that though, because it really reflects the student. What I mean by that is
some students, a couple of students that I worked with, we met literally weekly to talk about their
research or what they were thinking about. And even if we didn't meet weekly, we would get
together just to chat. And then there were a couple of others where getting together was like
pulling teeth. So I mean it really varied on the student. I feel like I've had all extremes.
JS (
00:36:58
):
[Affirmative] Another place where to my mind you've given the college great services in the area
of service, especially I think about your tenure on the rank and tenure committee, which is so
much work and you've had how many terms on there, or how many years on there?
DLS (
00:37:18
):
It was three years. It was one term.
JS (
00:37:19
):
It was just one term?
DLS (
00:37:20
):
It was one three-year term.
JS (
00:37:21
):


34
Della Lee Sue

Oh, it must have been when we were meeting often because it kind of loomed large for me.
Yeah.
DLS (
00:37:28
):
That was interesting.
JS (
00:37:29
):
Yeah. Tell me how that shaped your thinking about your work as a faculty member at Marist?
DLS (
00:37:37
):
What I really liked about that was, again, I find that the communities that I seem to get the most
out of and actually enjoy the most are the committees that cover the entire college. Yes. Where
there's representation rather than just say the School of Management was just really focused and
on rank and tenure, it's really interesting to kind of get a little bit of an insight into how other
schools operate. A lot of times it's a reflection of the discipline. And I found that on rank and
tenure, it was a really nice sense of camaraderie in terms of, what's said here stays here. So you
can really be open and candid, both on a personal level and just on how you feel about
something, and that I found to be really refreshing. It was almost sort of like a safe haven.
JS (
00:38:28
):
Yeah. It's such an important, important job, to be on rank and tenure.
DLS (
00:38:37
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:38:38
):


35
Della Lee Sue

Over your years at Marist, what would you say have been the biggest challenges you've faced?
DLS (
00:38:45
):
The biggest challenges? How to deal with things that I don't think are ethical [affirmative] or,
quote-unquote "right." We have certain, just as an example, we have certain policies: college
policies, school policies, department policies. And a lot of times, just as an example, we all know
that sometimes the student, it's not always the case, but there's a handful of students that yell the
loudest and they're the students that have somehow messed up. The extreme cases are students
that didn't take the courses that their advisor told them they should take. So then here they are
senior year without the pre-recs. So now they can't take it or you get a student who failed a class.
And my feeling is if you fail a class, you own up to it and you take it again. And if that means
you have to stay an extra semester, hey.
JS (
00:40:05
):
These are the consequences.
DLS (
00:40:06
):
Exactly. You know? But one of the frustrating things we started talking about sort of earlier,
about how administration, faculty, and students work together. I sort of sometimes feel that- and
I think it depends upon the administration- that the administration sometimes is too quick to side
with the student and the faculty get squeezed and they will do things that I don't think are ethical
or fair. Like they will let a student take a course elsewhere and transfer in the grade just because
the parents call the president's office and they want to just get the person out of there, and I just
don't think that's right.


36
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:40:50
):
Yeah.
DLS (
00:40:51
):
You know, I think it's a sense of responsibility [affirmative] and I think that, I sort of think it's a
generational thing.
JS (
00:41:03
):
Yeah. How about disappointments? Are there things you think Marist should have done and
didn't? Paths we should have taken? Opportunities that we missed?
DLS (
00:41:21
):
This sounds a little silly, but one opportunity and I don't know, there may have been more to this
than meets the eye, but years ago, when I first started teaching here, there was a Staples across
the street, right? And then they closed a number of years ago, but then right next to Staples, it
was kind of empty. And then Home Depot was there empty, and then, I've often wondered why
don't they build a grocery store there? Right? And so lately I am like thrilled that ShopRite is
just, you know, is walking distance from campus. So that's sort of a missed opportunity, I think.
But I imagine there may have been zoning or legal issues, but I sometimes think, well, gee, you
know, why doesn't Marist go over there?
JS (
00:42:06
):
Yeah. I remember hearing recommendations that Marist should go more into what they at the
time were calling "concierge-type services" so that you could attract and retain good employees,
if you had these amenities.


37
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:42:23
):
They tried that in the School of Management, I think with the MBA program.
JS (
00:42:26
):
Oh, really?
DLS (
00:42:26
):
They failed miserably.
JS (
00:42:29
):
Really?
JS (
00:42:29
):
Yeah. They had reached out to a certain company that was going to provide a concierge service
where they would set things up and the person would basically just have to take the courses. But
as I understand this came in a premium and students either were not interested, or I think a lot of
them felt that they could just apply to Marist and just go for an MBA on their own. Yeah, so it
had failed. It was not a good idea. I think that was- one of the deans at the time was in big
support of that in the School of Management, but it didn't go.
JS (
00:43:05
):
How about, what were the big successes that you can point to? Not necessarily just in
management, but the college as a whole.
DLS (
00:43:13
):


38
Della Lee Sue

The college in general? That's an interesting question. I think some of the big successes... I can't
really think of any, really.
JS (
00:43:42
):
Well, the one that I can think of is just the phenomenal growth of the college when other colleges
were closing.
DLS (
00:43:49
):
Okay.
JS (
00:43:50
):
You know, we grew.
DLS (
00:43:53
):
And, well, yeah, and actually we pretty effectively held our own, even after David Yellen
left/was gone, and then here comes the pandemic and I think Marist survived that pretty well.
JS (
00:44:09
):
It survived, I know.
DLS (
00:44:09
):
Yeah, so that would definitely be a success.
JS (
00:44:12
):
You have mentioned to me some changes that you see in students since the start of the pandemic.
Can you talk a little bit about those for the record?


39
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:44:22
):
Yeah. I taught remotely for the 2020 to 2021 academic year and that seemed fine. Teaching
remotely worked out pretty well. And then when I came back last fall, it was in person. So I
hadn't really been on campus for almost a year and a half. Okay. And the place was really
different. The students didn't seem to be as engaged and it got progressively more so as the
semester wore on. You'd walk into class and they wouldn't even be talking to each other, but they
would be on their cell phones or they would just be staring into space. And they just seemed to
be disengaged. In Dyson, at least in the School of Management part, it was like a ghost town.
Faculty were rarely around. Ironically, last fall, the only faculty that I saw were a few people
who had a similar teaching schedule that I had. So we'd run into each other all the time. And then
the other faculty that I saw were, ironically, the MPA faculty. And that struck me as odd because
they teach grad students and they teach online. They don't really have to be here, but there they
were.
JS (
00:45:42
):
[Laugh] So this would be like Jay Bainbridge and Jim Melitski
DLS (
00:45:50
):
Jay Bainbridge, Jim Melitski, Anne Zahradnik, Tony Carrizales and then one of their new guys,
Alex Henderson. All of them were around quite a bit.
JS (
00:45:59
):
[Laugh] Wow.
DLS (
00:45:59
):


40
Della Lee Sue

And I thought what's wrong with this picture?
JS (
00:46:01
):
Yeah, that's interesting.
DLS (
00:46:03
):
Yeah, but the place was very, very, I think--.
JS (
00:46:09
):
Lacked a spark?
DLS (
00:46:10
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:46:11
):
And this semester? How are things this semester?
DLS (
00:46:16
):
Total opposite.
JS (
00:46:17
):
Isn't that amazing.
DLS (
00:46:18
):


41
Della Lee Sue

I'll be honest. I mean, I don't have classes on Tuesday. My classes started on Wednesday, so on
Tuesday, I guess it was the 18th, I was actually dreading coming to class and that's not like me, I
mean usually.
JS (
00:46:30
):
No, no.
DLS (
00:46:31
):
I thought, okay, fine. Here we go. So I come to class on Wednesday and I had only one class on
Wednesday, but the students were very friendly, very cheerful, very upbeat. It was Principles of
Micro. The vast majority are probably freshmen and sophomores, mostly freshmen, but they
were very cheerful and talkative. And then on Thursday I have two: I have intermediate Micro, it
tends to be more sophomores/juniors, and then I have Econometrics, which is mostly
juniors/seniors. And so on Thursday I had the upper-level class students and they were really
chatty and they continue to be. When I walk in, they're chatting with each other. I'll come in on a
Monday and I'll say, "Hey, how was your-?", "Hey, everyone, how you doing?" They'll go, "Oh,
good, you know, whatever". And I'll say, "How was your weekend?" and they'll say, "Good.
How was yours?" and that didn't happen last semester.
JS (
00:47:26
):
Wow.
DLS (
00:47:27
):
I know.


42
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:47:28
):
Yeah. It's interesting. Do you have a theory?
DLS (
00:47:30
):
I don't know what the change was.
JS (
00:47:31
):
Yeah. You don't know?
DLS (
00:47:32
):
Yeah, but a lot of other people are telling me that they're noticing the same thing.
JS (
00:47:35
):
You know, one thing that John Ritchdorff mentioned when we interviewed him was that our
freshman class did not have a senior year in high school.
DLS (
00:47:48
):
They didn't.
JS (
00:47:49
):
So I wonder if--.
DLS (
00:47:52
):
Well, that's interesting.
JS (
00:47:52
):


43
Della Lee Sue

The fall semester was their senior year of high school?
DLS (
00:47:56
):
And then now this is really their first semester.
JS (
00:47:58
):
First semester, yeah.
DLS (
00:47:59
):
Could be. It could be.
JS (
00:48:03
):
I asked you before and you told me which people had helped you to be successful within the
School of Management. When you think about the college as a whole, can you identify people
who you think have been particularly important to its success?
DLS (
00:48:27
):
In general? I'm not so sure I follow exactly.
JS (
00:48:35
):
Well, as we were saying before, Marist has survived when other colleges have not. Marist has
thrived when other colleges have not. Who do you think is responsible for directing the college
or bringing that about?
DLS (
00:48:51
):


44
Della Lee Sue

For keeping us big? I do think the upper-level administrators do a good job of what they're
doing. Actually, I think Dennis coming back was an extremely good move.
JS (
00:49:08
):
I agree.
DLS (
00:49:08
):
Yeah, and when I think of like John Ritchdorff and Thom Wermuth or when I think of some of
the deans, my personal feeling is that the deans that are what I would call the most "successful"
in terms of doing what they're doing in different ways are the deans that have been at Marist
from the bottom and came up. Even like Thom Wermuth was a student here. Yeah. But most of
the other deans, like when I think of Marty Shaffer, Roger Norton, they started out as faculty and
then were department chairs on different committees, and then they became dean. And I think it's
reflective of a couple of things. One is: it apparently was a good fit because they stayed that long,
but the other thing is, I think that they're really- Marist is their life. I mean, to a certain extent, I
think of Marist as really my life, and I think it shows in what they do and in what they think. I
think a lot of people probably disagree with some of the decisions, let's say, that Thom Wermuth
makes. Okay. But I honestly feel that he makes decisions that are in the best interest of the
college. I don't always agree with him, but that's fine. I don't have to agree with him, but I
honestly, I respect him for his decisions. I think he makes decisions with his heart and mind for
what he feels is best for the college. And I think that's true of a lot of the folks that have been
here for a long time and administratively keep the place going. Like Roger and Marty Shaffer
and John Ritchdorff, yeah.


45
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:51:04
):
The longevity is just incredible.
DLS (
00:51:05
):
And I think that's even true of a lot of their, what I would call their support personnel. When I
think of like Karen Burke, Michelle Stokes and Kate Dunham. When I think of people like that,
what they do for the college, again, they're very familiar.
JS (
00:51:23
):
Almost unsung heroes, that group.
DLS (
00:51:24
):
Yeah, they're very familiar, but it goes beyond familiarity. [Affirmative] When I think of Linda
Pisacano. [Affirmative] It's beyond just, you know, familiarity and doing their job. It's a real
commitment.
JS (
00:51:40
):
Yeah. Well, I see that commitment in you too. So what is it that you could point to that has kept
you at Marist all this time? What's the glue that kept you here?
DLS (
00:51:58
):
It's actually a fun place to work. I mean, I could complain about a lot of things, but that's, I think
is quite frankly neither here nor there, but--.
JS (
00:52:08
):


46
Della Lee Sue

It's also pretty common of the human condition.
DLS (
00:52:11
):
Yeah, but, basically it's a nice place to be. It has real value. I mean, it's a good place to be.
JS (
00:52:20
):
Can we talk about how you see the college having changed over time? [Affirmative] Tell me
what year you first- I should have asked this before, I'm so sorry, what year did you come to
Marist?
DLS (
00:52:34
):
I started in '96 as part-time and then 2000, full-time.
JS (
00:52:41
):
Okay. So when we think about the changes in the college over time: changes in students, changes
in faculty?
DLS (
00:52:56
):
Okay.
JS (
00:52:57
):
What do you see?
DLS (
00:52:59
):
With the students, I see sort of generational changes. I see, sort of the gen Y, you know--.


47
Della Lee Sue

JS (
00:53:11
):
The gen X, then millennials--.
DLS (
00:53:12
):
The gen X, the gen Y, yep, and now we've got our generation and the gen Zs. I do see the
changes in them and it's kind of funny because you're sort of generalizing but they really are very
different- generations as they transition. So, I think that reflects a lot of the changes in the
college, just how the students are and the way they think and what they do. And administratively,
quite frankly, one of my fears is that- in some ways as an economist it's sort of supply and
demand. One of my fears is that I'm afraid that the real value of education, why you learn
something is getting minimized and I don't wanna see Marist turn into a trade school
[affirmative].
DLS (
00:54:18
):
And I don't know, maybe I see that more so with business because the students are really more
focused on just wanting to get their degree so that they can get a job. But I think that also ties in
with the gen Zs, because this generation is a generation that grew up with cell phones from the
very beginning and I find it interesting that they have the world at their fingertips. They can
Google anything, or ask Siri, or ask Alexa. They get anything at their fingertips. But what scares
me is that I don't think they really know what to do with the information.
JS (
00:54:59
):
Or even what to ask sometimes. Right. Yeah.
DLS (
00:55:04
):


48
Della Lee Sue

And I see that in the classroom.
JS (
00:55:06
):
I also imagine that the economic insecurity that's brought about by the pandemic is going to
sharpen students' focus on career goals.
DLS (
00:55:20
):
Right.
JS (
00:55:21
):
I think so.
DLS (
00:55:23
):
Yeah. So it might almost make the career goals more of a priority for them. Yeah.
JS (
00:55:30
):
Yeah. What about changes that you've seen in faculty over your 25 years here?
DLS (
00:55:41
):
One of the things that I sort of think that Marist has not done, is, I don't think they've really kept
competitive with the market in academia, in terms of hiring. And, you know, I think Marist is
known for having a high course load and I think it's difficult to attract good faculty.
JS (
00:56:07
):
Yeah.


49
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
00:56:08
):
And I'm wondering if that's going to be a long-run problem.
JS (
00:56:14
):
Yeah. It's certainly one that will affect the college overall.
DLS (
00:56:20
):
Yeah.
JS (
00:56:21
):
No question. Well, what would you say to people who are considering taking a position at
Marist? A faculty position.
DLS (
00:56:34
):
Like what would be the advantage of coming to Marist?
JS (
00:56:38
):
[Affirmative] And maybe what would you want them to, you know, have eyes wide open about?
DLS (
00:56:48
):
Well, the nice thing about Marist is, it's sort of like, I guess size-wise, it's big enough that we
have a fair amount of opportunities here, but it's not so big that you get lost and so you can still
find your niche. Like, what you enjoy doing. And I think the college is still open to ideas, so if
people wanna try something, I think the opportunity's here to do it. And so if somebody wants to
come, it's like, gee, if you have some ideas that you might want to explore, or while you're here,


50
Della Lee Sue

you might think of things that this is a place where you could explore those things. Yeah,
absolutely. So I think that's one of the real pluses.
JS (
00:57:37
):
A real advantage. Yeah, absolutely. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think you would see in
Marist's future?
DLS (
00:57:48
):
I'd like to think that it would, that Marist will progress, not even so much in size, but in quality.
JS (
00:58:09
):
By that, do you mean become more academically rigorous? More varied programs?
DLS (
00:58:23
):
No, well, maybe, but not necessarily. Not in any one direction. Not academic. Not necessarily
more rigorous. That could be part of it, but more that people focus on quality, that students-
overall, students and faculty focus on quality. Quality of education. Quality of the jobs they can
get. Quality of lifestyle. So far I kind of see that in President Kevin. I haven't met him
personally, but from what I can tell so far, he just seems like a really cool guy and I feel very
optimistic that he can guide the college in a very, what to me would be, a very positive direction.
He seems like a quality guy if that makes sense?
JS (
00:59:22
):
[affirmative]
DLS (
00:59:23
):


51
Della Lee Sue

He doesn't seem like the type of person that could run a school to the ground.
JS (
00:59:28
):
[affirmative] Final words of advice for faculty, for students, for administration, for staff?
DLS (
00:59:42
):
Words of advice? Keep laughing. Keep a good sense of humor. I think what makes Marist a
good- what I would recommend like to some of the new faculty when they come in- I encourage
them to seek working on committees outside the School of Management to basically get to know
people because that makes it more fun. Yeah, and that's that's how we met, was through going to
each other's classroom.
JS (
01:00:18
):
Is that how we met?
DLS (
01:00:20
):
Yup. The Center for Teaching Excellence.
JS (
01:00:26
):
Oh, wow.
DLS (
01:00:27
):
Yep. That's how we first met. But, you know--.
JS (
01:00:30
):
I'm so glad you remembered that. I didn't remember that at all.


52
Della Lee Sue

DLS (
01:00:32
):
Yeah, and Elizabeth Purinton-Johnson and I, we have been meeting with what we call junior
faculty. Junior faculty are generally the first and second year faculty and we try to provide them
with FAQs that maybe they don't get at the faculty orientation and stuff. And one of the things
that I encourage them to do is look outside the School of Management, you know, for various
committees, even just opportunities, or go to different lectures and stuff like that. Because one
thing I do remember was we were talking about how the fall semester was kind of, not, it wasn't
a lot of fun and it was very trying. At the very end of the semester, the honors program had the
poster session and so I went to the poster session. It was in the Murray student center, and I had
so much fun talking to the different students about what they were doing and why, where they
got that idea, and most of them are seniors, I guess they're all seniors. So I was asking them,
what are they gonna do when they graduate from Marist and stuff? And I also saw a lot of
faculty who came out to see, and I remember on my way home, I was feeling really happy. And
it was the happiest I felt last fall. Which, I thought, well, I know why, it's because Marist is
basically the people here. And so being able to talk to the students and then running into other
faculty that's on campus, it was just really, really fun.
JS (
01:02:08
):
It's in our mission. Yeah. A sense of community.
DLS (
01:02:12
):
One thing that's really cool is, are you familiar with the Marist garden?
JS (
01:02:16
):


53
Della Lee Sue

Oh yes.
DLS (
01:02:17
):
It's really neat. Because in between, we had a couple of meetings, and in between meetings, it
was, this must have been last fall. It was like in September when the weather was still really
warm. Chris Creedon and I went out and were wandering around the garden. Joe Campisi, he
was there. It was really neat. He gave us a tour. Yeah. He showed us everything that was
growing there and who was responsible for the different plots.
JS (
01:02:38
):
And actually Steve Sansola was behind that.
DLS (
01:02:41
):
Yes, oh was he? Steve, I saw him at a basketball game recently.
JS (
01:02:45
):
Is he enjoying his retirement?
DLS (
01:02:49
):
Yeah, but it's like, people like that to me that make Marist what it is really. Yeah.
JS (
01:02:53
):
Yeah, and those are faculty and administrators and upper-level administrators and mid-level
administrators.
DLS (
01:03:01
):


54
Della Lee Sue

Yeah.
JS (
01:03:02
):
Well, thank you very, very much for this. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?
Maybe something that you thought you would want to talk about that I didn't ask?
DLS (
01:03:13
):
No, you've asked me a lot more than I would ever even have thought of.
JS (
01:03:17
):
Well I had the advantage of knowing you beforehand. Yeah. Well thank you very, very much.
You know how much I appreciate you giving us this time.
DLS (
01:03:25
):
This has been fun.



Sue, Della Lee Cover Pages
Sue, Della Lee, 03 February 2022