Interview with: Brother Kenneth Hogan
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Lola-Dillon Cahill
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections











Brother Kenneth Hogan
2

Interviewee:
Brother Kenneth Hogan
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan
Interview Date:
7 November, 2022
Location:
James A. Cannavino Library

Topic:
In this interview, Gus Nolan interviews Brother Kenneth Hogan about his various
experiences with the Marist Brothers and the people he met in his years involved with the school.
Subject Headings:
Brother Kenneth Hogan
Marist College History

Marist College, Poughkeepsie NY
Marist Esopus
Marist Cold Spring
Summary:
In this interview, Gus Nolan asks Kenneth Hogan about his childhood and
upbringing in the Bronx, NY, his decision to get involved with the Marist Brothers, his time at
Esopus and Cold Spring, and how his life was separate from the school. Additionally, they
discussed how they see the college now and how it’s changed since they first became a part of
the Marist community.






Brother Kenneth Hogan
3

Gus Nolan:
00;00;00;17 - 00;00;05;27
Good morning. Today is Thursday, the seventh day of November.

Kenneth Hogan:
00;00;05;29 - 00;00;09;28
Good morning. It's a pleasure to be here.

GN:
00;00;10;01 - 00;00;10;28
Okay.

Jan Stivers:
00;00;11;00 - 00;00;14;00
Perfect. You're running, you're rolling. So just, do your thing.

GN:
00;00;14;02 - 00;00;26;18
Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. We'll see you soon. About an hour, or less.
Maybe we’ll just walk out.

JS:

Do you want me to bring a pen? Or just—


Brother Kenneth Hogan
4

KH:
We'll get it on the way out. Yeah.

JS:
Okay, thank you.

GN:
00;00;26;21 - 00;00;33;05

Wonderful. [Pause] Good morning, Ken.

KH:
00;00;33;08 - 00;00;33;29
Good morning, Gus.

GN:
00;00;34;02 - 00;01;05;02

It’s nice to have you here. As you know, this is an interview for the Marist college archives.
Really, it’s the oral archives, different from some other work that's going on. John, this is
about—okay <laugh>. Ken, this is about five parts. It’s kind of before Marist, Marist, after
Marist, observations, and then the Marist brothers and their part in your life and in our life. So, to
begin just kind of a short overall view of who you are. Where were you born, early years, where
did you go to grade school, family, and we’ll kind of nurse that along.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
5

KH:
00;01;19;14 - 00;01;47;10
Fine. My name is brother Kenneth Hogan. I was born in the Bronx, New York, in 1944, a long
time ago. I lived with my mother, my father, and my brother, Ed, and we lived in what was very
popular at the time, a place called Parkchester. I went to Saint Raymond's Elementary school,
was taught by the sisters of Charity, the Christian Brothers, De La Salle, and lay teachers. When I
graduated from there, I went to Mount Saint Michael Academy in the Upper Bronx, and that's
where I met the Marist Brothers.

GN:
00;01;54;26 - 00;02;18;05
Okay, let’s just go back a little bit to the grade school Saint Raymond's. At the edge of
Parkchester, I guess. Area wise, is it, Saint Helena's is the other side of it, right?

KH:

That’s right.

GN:
And that's, some of us have familiarity with that. In growing up, what kind of activities were you
involved in? Altar boys, choir, glee club, anything like that?

KH:
00;02;23;29 - 00;02;43;23


Brother Kenneth Hogan
6

Not unusually, I was an altar boy. There were very many of them in the school at Saint
Raymond's. And I was also in the glee club. And there's an interesting tie in there that the
moderator of the glee club in elementary school was a brother, Luke, who later became Father
Luke and was the chaplain here at the college.

GN:
00;02;43;25 - 00;02;44;16
Oh, yes.

KH:
00;02;44;19 - 00;03;08;17
And while he was here, I met him and introduced myself to him. He said he remembered me, but
I doubt it. But I surely remembered him. Most of what we did as kids in Parkchester was to play
street games. Box ball, stickball, punch ball, I was not an athlete, so things like basketball and
softball and baseball were not my cup of tea, as it were. But we hung out and we had a good
time. And our lives pretty much centered around a piece of the neighborhood. We were in the
East quadrant, and the other part of our lives really was centered in the school and the parish.

GN:
00;03;25;09 - 00;03;30;15
What about the activity it, was the war over, was it peace? Where were you in that frame?

KH:
00;03;30;18 - 00;03;42;26


Brother Kenneth Hogan
7

Yeah. By that, well, I was born in ‘44, so the war was practically at an end. And [pause] so by the
time I knew which end was up, it was 1950.

GN:
00;03;42;26 - 00;03;49;27
Oh. Okay. What drew you to the Mount. rather than Saint Helen’s?

KH:
00;03;49;27 - 00;04;15;02
Well, at that time, you took a co-op test. It was brand new, actually. And you put down all the
schools you were interested in. So I listed six. God was good, and I was able to get into all six.
What ultimately decided for me was a good friend of mine was going to go to the Mount, so I
said, okay, that sounds good to me. So that's how I got to the Mount.

GN:
00;04;18;02 - 00;04;22;07
How was transportation from where you lived up to the Mount? That should be interesting.

KH:
00;04;22;07 - 00;04;50;08
It was interesting. We had multiple routes, but all of them involved two buses and a train. An
alternative was a bus, a train, and a walk. So depending on weather, if it was good weather I
could take the bus from Parkchester over to the train, the subway, the 241st Street train up to
238th or 241st and then walk to the mount.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
8

GN:
That’s a long walk.

KH:
00;04;50;11 - 00;04;50;25
Yeah, but at that age--

GN:
00;04;50;28 - 00;04;51;27
Nowadays for us it would be a long walk <laugh>.

KH:
00;04;51;29 - 00;05;03;04
At our age, it wasn't bad. In inclement weather, we could pick up a bus at 238th Street and that
would drop us right at the Mount. So it took about forty minutes each way.

GN:
00;05;03;07 - 00;05;09;06
Okay. After activities at the Mount, you went home. You didn't play around?

KH:
00;05;09;08 - 00;05;30;05


Brother Kenneth Hogan
9

I did, I did. I was in the poster club. I was not a great artist, but it was a good opportunity to meet
other kids. And then I got into what was then called the drama club, and a nice tie in with the
college is that the moderator, at the Mount at the time was Jeptha Lanning.

GN:
00;05;30;12 - 00;05;31;08
Oh, my.

KH:
00;05;31;10 - 00;05;40;21
Who wound up being a professor here who I had for English years later. So, there's a nice
connection there, right from the Mount to Marist College.

GN:
00;05;40;23 - 00;05;57;04
Very good. I was just going to say now, at the time at the Mount, were there some brothers and
people that you, well you were particularly interested in? They helped you in activities such as
drama. Jeptha is one of them, was Connie--

KH:
00;05;57;07 - 00;06;20;02
It was a lot of, there were a lot of brothers there at the time. There was about sixty. My first year,
I had all brothers except for the gym teacher. And my second year I had one lay teacher, and a
gym teacher. The rest of them were all brothers. And I think that's what drew me to the brothers,


Brother Kenneth Hogan
10

these wonderful men who always seemed to be, upbeat. And they really cared about kids. It was
also in the sodality, so that gave another, experience of the Mount and tied it nicely with, I guess
my background being an Irish Catholic kid, with a mother who prayed all the time.

GN:
00;06;37;05 - 00;06;39;25
<Laugh> Okay. Did you know ( )? Brother William James?

KH:
00;06;39;25 - 00;07;10;26
Yes, I did. He was, when I got there, he was an English teacher, and I think he may have become
an administrator when I was a sophomore, but I'm not sure. But I left after sophomore year to go
to the juniorate in Cold Spring, New York. It was brand new, and that was when the provinces
split and the Esopus people stayed at Esopus and everybody else coming in from schools that
were now part of the Poughkeepsie province went to Cold Spring. So, there were forty-one of us
who went to Cold Spring.

GN:
00;07;13;16 - 00;07;21;19
I see. Back to the Mount, did you work at any time? After school, Saturdays, during the
summers?

KH:
00;07;21;21 - 00;07;48;11


Brother Kenneth Hogan
11

When I was a sophomore, before I went to the juniorate. That summer, I had my first real job. It
was at a place called Freedom Land, which is now Co-op City, and I worked for the Brass Rail
Company, and I was a cook of sorts. And that's really a joke. All we did was hot dogs and
hamburgers and Coke in a section of the park that was called the New Orleans section. And that
was where I made my first buck, as it were. And I--

GN:
00;07;52;13 - 00;07;54;00
How old were you? Sixteen?

KH:
00;07;54;00 - 00;07;54;15
Sixteen.

GN:
00;07;54;20 - 00;08;06;10
Yeah. Okay. Let's go back to your interest in Marist. When do you begin to, of course, you said
you went there at the end of your sophomore year?

KH:
00;08;06;13 - 00;08;08;03
I went to Cold Spring, to the juniorate.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
12

GN:
00;08;08;03 - 00;08;25;28
Right. Okay. What, you talked about the spirit of the many men you were exposed to there,
upbeat and positive and cooperative. Who did you speak to or were you approached by? Brother
Luke? Brother--

KH:
00;08;26;01 - 00;08;51;29
It was interesting. It was during a final exam, as it were. And a brother, Joseph Ambrose
McKiernan, called me out of the exam and invited me to the brother's dining room and said there
was going to be a trip to Cold Spring. It was a new place, and it was where high school people
with an interest in the Marist Brothers could go to high school and finish high school. And, so I
went up to see it at the end of the school year. And lo and behold, I went home and said to my
mom and dad, I think that's what I want to do. My father was quite shocked. My mother was
equally shocked, but she hid it. I should also say that as a freshman, I had been invited for a day
trip to Esopus. And Esopus is a magnificent place. But it was so big and there were so many
people there, I think it kind of put me off. But then when Brother Joseph asked me at the end of
sophomore year I realized, you know, that Cold Spring was not going to be quite so big, it
seemed like more of a place where I could fit in. So I said yes.

GN:
00;09;36;10 - 00;09;39;13
Did any other students go at that time to Cold Spring?



Brother Kenneth Hogan
13

KH:
00;09;39;14 - 00;10;02;14
Yeah. There were two of us from that class who went, that I remember. The two of us. Yeah. We
were forty-one new kids, and they transferred twenty of the Esopus kids over to Cold Spring to
make it big enough. So, we wound up being sixty-one, in Cold Spring.

GN:
00;10;02;16 - 00;10;04;21
Was Dennis Damian the new director there?

KH:
00;10;04;21 - 00;10;06;08
No, Leo Vincent.

GN:
00;10;06;10 - 00;10;10;07
Oh, that's another story <laugh>.

KH:
00;10;10;10 - 00;10;13;06
<Laugh> You better believe it.

GN:
00;10;13;09 - 00;10;15;20
Now, who else on the faculty do you remember?


Brother Kenneth Hogan
14

KH:
00;10;15;22 - 00;10;16;26
Brother Dan Grogan.

GN:
00;10;16;26 - 00;10;17;23
Oh, yes.

KH:
00;10;17;25 - 00;10;19;13
Brother John Francis.

GN:
00;10;19;16 - 00;10;20;07
Oh, yes.

KH:
00;10;20;07 - 00;10;24;12
John Luke.

GN:
00;10;24;14 - 00;10;26;24
Oh. Most of them have passed on it now, haven’t they?
KH:
00;10;26;26 - 00;10;49;24


Brother Kenneth Hogan
15

Well, except John Luke. And Danny Grogan. You wouldn't want to hear that. There was a
younger brother who was the cook. Kenneth Jude. He eventually withdrew, and I believe he's
deceased. It was a small faculty, also living there at the time was Brother Paul Acyndinus, who
was quite elderly, and Brother Joseph Serin, who was the treasurer of the house, and I think that
was it. That was the whole faculty. Oh, excuse me, and brother Matthew Michael Callahan.

GN:
00;11;00;04 - 00;11;10;22
Okay. Moving on from the novitiate—from the juniorate--you went to the novitiate?

KH:

Yes.

GN:
And was that in Tyngsboro?

KH:
00;11;10;24 - 00;11;19;11
It was in Tyngsboro, yeah. I went up there after high school. And that, again, was a totally
different experience because it was a farm.
GN:
00;11;19;15 - 00;11;20;03
Yes.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
16

KH:
00;11;20;06 - 00;11;41;19
So being a kid from the Bronx who had absolutely no experience with farm animals, I just
thought I had died and gone to heaven. And as luck turned out, I wound up being a milker.

GN:
Really?

KH:

So I enjoyed that immensely. We used to do that on Sunday afternoons. A team of us would go
down, milk the cows, make sure everything was taken care of. First, we would get them into the
barn. We’d muck out the stalls, as they say, then we'd milk the cows, and, then we would go up
and throw our clothes in the wash, get a shower and go to sing vespers. So there was a little bit of
the--

GN:
00;12;00;06 - 00;12;11;00
( ). Nevertheless, I'm surprised you were so positive in taking on that challenge. You had never
had any kind of contact with that business.

KH:
00;12;11;00 - 00;12;35;07


Brother Kenneth Hogan
17

No, and, you know, I made my mistakes. I got kicked once by a cow. I got, a cow lifted its tail on
me once or twice.

GN:
Oh, wow <laugh>.

KH:

But, it was a great experience- and working on a farm, you know, digging potatoes, baling hay,
picking up, harvesting beets, helping the old brothers with the chickens, canning fruit and
vegetables, like, wow. Where else could you have those experiences?

GN:
00;12;38;24 - 00;12;57;14
Yeah. I was deprived of that myself, actually. Well, except one small phase of it. Canning
tomatoes, tomato juice, and applesauce. We did that, but, the less you hear of that, that doesn't
matter.
KH:

<Laugh>

GN:


Brother Kenneth Hogan
18

But, thankfully there, was Brother Luke there at the time?

KH:
00;12;57;16 - 00;13;27;28
The faculty in Tyngsboro at the time, David Ottmar was the master. My first year there, John
Bosco was the sub master. Brother John Francis had moved up from Cold Spring. He was there.
We had George Robert for history, and Brother Clem Laguerre would come over from Central
Catholic in Lawrence and teach one section of math for what we affectionately referred to
ourselves as the dummies. We took the basic math, which he was very patient in teaching us.

GN:
00;13;33;07 - 00;13;53;11
Very good. Moving on, novitiate experiences in Tyngsboro, there's a climate thing or two about
swimming in a pond or a lake or whatever, and ice skating as well, is there a John Berchmans
there at the time? Well, he was in--

KH:
00;13;53;13 - 00;13;55;07
He was in Esopus by then.

GN:
00;13;55;07 - 00;13;56;23
Oh, he was in Esopus. Okay.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
19

KH:
00;13;56;26 - 00;14;16;27
We used to ice skate on the cow pasture. It would flood and then they would freeze it--or it
would freeze, and we would skate there, which made for a lot of jokes. Because sometimes you
would be skating and ice might be thin, and you'd fall in and you'd be up to your waist in cow
waste.

GN:
Oh.

KH:
00;14;17;02 - 00;14;21;11
But it was fun. It was good. And then we used to swim in the quarry. Which was quite exciting.

GN:
00;14;23;07 - 00;14;25;00
Yeah. Cold.

KH:
00;14;25;03 - 00;14;38;11
Cold. And it was about fifteen feet high, maybe twenty feet high off the ledge. And we would
jump off, and we didn't do it too often, but it was kind of a rite of passage, as it were.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
20

GN:
I did it.

KH:

Did you?

GN:
00;14;38;14 - 00;14;45;05
Yeah. So, with your friend from novitiate, you come down to the scholasticate?

KH:
00;14;45;10 - 00;14;47;06
That's right, that's right.

GN:
00;14;47;08 - 00;14;52;13
How big a group were you? What you think? Twenty-five?

KH:
00;14;52;13 - 00;15;07;04
No, we were bigger than that. I think we were about, because we were both provinces at that
point, you know, for sophomore scholastics. So I guess we were about, I think about forty
maybe. Yeah, I think about forty, forty-five.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
21


GN:
00;15;07;04 - 00;15;14;11
And as your friend came here the first year, Brother Paul Ambrose, who is the--

KH:
00;15;14;14 - 00;15;16;13
No. It was Brother ( ) Sheridan.

GN:
00;15;16;19 - 00;15;19;04
Oh. Already we’ve moved on. Yes.

KH:
00;15;19;06 - 00;15;22;27
And the submaster was Maurice Bibeau.

GN:
00;15;22;29 - 00;15;24;18
Okay. All right.

KH:
00;15;24;24 - 00;15;35;03
And they had us, you know, for that first year. And that's, so I was at the college for three years.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
22


GN:
00;15;35;05 - 00;15;36;03
Yeah. What did you study?

KH:
00;15;36;08 - 00;15;39;12
English. English as a major and theology as a minor.

GN:
00;15;39;15 - 00;15;43;22
Really? Now, theology, did you have father--

KH:
00;15;43;24 - 00;15;44;26
Toss was not here.

GN:
00;15;44;26 - 00;15;45;27
Toss was not here.

KH:
00;15;45;28 - 00;15;48;12
No, no, Felix Shurkus was here.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
23

GN:
00;15;48;12 - 00;15;50;00
Oh, okay.

KH:
00;15;50;02 - 00;15;51;08
I'm trying to remember who the other--

GN:
00;15;51;08 - 00;15;54;05
Brother William, maybe.

KH:
00;15;54;05 - 00;16;03;01
Bill Murphy, no, I didn't have him. Yeah, my mind is a little blank on that, because I know I had
Felix Circus for two or three classes.

GN:
00;16;03;03 - 00;16;07;10
Had he come back from Rome?

KH:

Yes.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
24

GN:
He was back from Rome at that time.

KH:
00;16;07;13 - 00;16;16;03
Yeah. And the first year in the summer, we took some theology courses, which we got credit for
also. But the names of the teachers escape me.

GN:
00;16;16;05 - 00;16;24;18
Okay. What was your key? Your chore, here in the scholasticate.

KH:
00;16;24;20 - 00;16;42;11
Cleaning.

GN:
Cleaning.

KH:

You know, washing and waxing floors for the most part. I didn't, I don't recall having a specific
key like sacristy or--well, laundry. Might have had laundry, but those were kind of regular jobs
there weren’t keys associated with them.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
25

GN:
Okay.

KH:

I guess I wasn't smart enough to have a key.

GN:
00;16;42;14 - 00;17;10;10
Strong enough was other thing.

KH:
<Laugh>

GN:
I mean, I was a father, so that's how bad it could be <laugh>. Life here in the scholasticate,
besides going to school. How else would you see it? I mean the athletics, the activities, were they
putting on plays yet? Was [pause], I forget his name now.

KH:

Yeah.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
26

GN:
00;17;10;17 - 00;17;12;25
Well, I forget his name now, it was Jeptha Lanning eventually.

KH:
00;17;12;25 - 00;17;14;09
He was the director. Yeah.

GN:
00;17;14;09 - 00;17;15;26
Yeah.

KH:
00;17;15;28 - 00;17;39;16
In hindsight, I mean, I'm not going to, you know, criticize. But the pity was that we really had
limited engagement with the lay students. The only thing that we were involved with them in,
was some of the theater productions. And I think that was because Jeptha Lanning got us
involved, and a lot of the scholastics were in the theater. I was in the production end with him.
Right. Because to act? No, no way. But to be a gopher was more--

GN:
00;17;46;21 - 00;17;48;29
Always the one doing the other part of it.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
27

KH:
00;17;49;02 - 00;18;08;02
Yeah. And so, we really didn't have much to do with the lay students, which, you know, is our
loss. But, you know, that's the way it was at the time. And that's the way it was just to be
appropriate. yeah. But we had 120, 125 scholastics. So you, you had plenty of people to grow
friendly with. And we did.

GN:
00;18;11;01 - 00;18;19;12
None of the athletic fields were really in shape, not as we have now.

KH:

No, nothing.

GN:
They were just lots. And the gym was up.

KH:
00;18;19;15 - 00;18;22;12
The Marian building was still the gym. That was it.

GN:
00;18;22;12 - 00;18;43;21


Brother Kenneth Hogan
28

Yeah. multi-purpose. It was a chapel on some occasions, there was a graduation ceremony on
other occasions and, now it's a dormitory. So, it could throw you for a loop. Let's go outside
Marist, did you graduate here? Or did you finish at Fordham or--

KH:
00;18;43;23 - 00;18;49;28
I finished here. In my, the fall of senior year, I did my practice teaching at Christ the King.

GN:
00;18;50;01 - 00;18;50;24
Oh.

KH:
00;18;50;26 - 00;18;54;25
And I had a certain brother of a brother as my--

GN:
00;18;54;26 - 00;18;55;20
Brother Xavier? Did you know him?

KH:
00;18;55;21 - 00;19;17;09
As my master teacher. And then I came back and, there was a brother at Our Lady of Lourdes
who took sick. So they sent me to replace him. So I still had two courses I needed to get to


Brother Kenneth Hogan
29

graduate. So I lived at Lourdes, taught at Lourdes, and came over here a couple of times a week.
Well, during the day I think it was two days and at night, two nights to take the last two courses.

GN:
00;19;24;03 - 00;19;25;29
What were they in?

KH:
00;19;26;02 - 00;19;30;05
One was philosophy of education, and the other one was linguistics.

GN:
00;19;30;08 - 00;19;42;07
Oh, did you have George? Oh, let’s move on <laugh>. The, your first teaching assignment, then?
Yeah. I mean, what after, or did you stay at Lourdes?

KH:
00;19;42;09 - 00;19;59;17
No, no. When I graduated, I did summer school in Chicago, and then I was assigned to
Wheeling, West Virginia, Central Catholic in Wheeling. And I taught there for a few years. And
then I was lucky enough to work for the Diocese of Wheeling for about three and a half years.

GN:
00;19;59;20 - 00;20;01;14


Brother Kenneth Hogan
30

As a teacher or in the office?

KH:
00;20;01;14 - 00;20;04;03
I was an administrator for religious education.

GN:
00;20;04;03 - 00;20;04;25
Oh, I see.

KH:
00;20;04;25 - 00;20;06;27
So I got to travel the diocese.

GN:
00;20;07;04 - 00;20;09;25
Oh, so you would know the territory pretty much.

KH:
00;20;09;25 - 00;20;10;25
Yeah. I loved it.

GN:
00;20;10;29 - 00;20;18;07


Brother Kenneth Hogan
31

Yeah. Okay. Did you do more study? Did you go to graduate school?

KH:
00;20;18;07 - 00;20;31;09
I did. I graduated from Marist in ‘68. And in the summer of ‘69, as many Marist did, we studied
at Notre Dame. So I did five summers out there to get a master's in theology.

GN:
00;20;31;13 - 00;20;41;20
Really? Okay. I thought you were going to say CU, the Catholic University, where we had a
house already, well I don’t know who’s still there.

KH:
00;20;41;23 - 00;20;54;26
I don't think we were there. Well, yes. Yes, we were, because John Malledge was there. But
many, there were probably fifteen or sixteen of us studying at Notre Dame during the summer.

GN:
Really?

KH:

Yeah.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
32

GN:
00;20;54;28 - 00;20;57;29
What was the contact that we had?

KH:
00;20;58;01 - 00;21;19;05
I think it was word of mouth or [pause] it's most of the fellows, the brothers either went into
theology or English and English was also communication arts. I don't remember any of the
brothers studying anything other than theology or English slash communication.

GN:
00;21;19;07 - 00;21;27;14
Yeah. There was a George Howard I had in class who eventually became the head of philosophy
out there but, he was probably later than the time you were there.

KH:
00;21;27;16 - 00;21;30;04
Not much. Not much. Yeah, I heard of him.

GN:
00;21;30;11 - 00;22;00;18
Yeah, he came here and gave lectures about evaluating teachers and different categories to
getting their students opinion, their colleagues opinion, you sitting in and see what you think
about them, you know, so that was a whole, experience we had in developing a grading system--


Brother Kenneth Hogan
33

KH:

Yeah.

GN:
The college started with I didn't know what it’s like now. So, how much teaching did you do in
the field? After Wheeling, did you come back?

KH:
00;22;00;21 - 00;22;28;28
When I left Wheeling, I was twenty-nine years old, and I had asked if I could go to New York
City because there was a family situation, and I wanted to try and help out. So I sent a letter and
asked if there was a teaching job at Saint Agnes High School. And, the brother who answered the
letter said, could we use your letter as your application to be principal of the school? And in my
naivety, I said, oh, okay. Okay. So I went from West Virginia to Saint Agnes on 44th Street.

GN:
00;22;39;23 - 00;22;41;03
I'm familiar with it. Go ahead.

KH:
00;22;41;05 - 00;22;46;08
And got the shock of my life. It was a good experience. The kids were great, but--


Brother Kenneth Hogan
34

GN:
00;22;46;10 - 00;22;48;15
Paperwork.

KH:
00;22;48;17 - 00;22;53;27
It was a challenge. It was a challenge. Great kids though. Great kids.

GN:
00;22;53;29 - 00;22;56;23
How long did you suffer this <laugh>?

KH:
00;22;56;26 - 00;23;06;21
<Laugh> I don't want to use that word, but I was there for three years, and it was an important
three years, but it was a tough three years.

GN:
00;23;06;23 - 00;23;09;02
Okay. And following that?

KH:
00;23;09;04 - 00;23;34;23
Then I went to Central Catholic in Lawrence, and I was there for fourteen years. Then, I worked
with the retired brothers in Lawrence for a couple of years, and then I worked for the Diocese of


Brother Kenneth Hogan
35

Manchester in New Hampshire. I went--I was superintendent for Catholic schools up there. I did
that for six years.

GN:
00;23;34;26 - 00;23;39;19
How does your name get out to take these dioceses and positions, it seems--

KH:
00;23;39;23 - 00;24;05;12
Well, in West Virginia, the priest who used to say mass for the brothers, he was very kind to the
brothers and he was very friendly. And he asked me, would you like to do religious ed for the
diocese? And so I said, oh, sure. So I did. The other one in Manchester, New Hampshire. The
then provincial told me that there was an open position up there. And why didn't I try and see
what they would say? Because I had the background from being principal at Central Catholic in
Lawrence. I had been principal there for ten years. So I went up for the interview, and I don't
think they had a lot of candidates, to be quite honest. And the next thing I knew, that's what I did.
So I did that for six years.

GN:
00;24;25;05 - 00;24;29;15
Did you have your own car to make these trips around?

KH:



Brother Kenneth Hogan
36

Yeah—

GN:
Or were you chauffeured <laugh>?

KH:
00;24;29;18 - 00;24;40;29
<Laugh> No, no, no, I stayed in Lawrence and traveled to Manchester, which was an easy drive.
It was not difficult. And I got to know the state inside and out, which was great.

GN:
00;24;41;06 - 00;24;44;02
Yeah. Was weather a factor? Snow and—

KH:
00;24;44;02 - 00;25;04;05
It could be. I would try to, you know, watch, because there were schools all the way up, as far
north as a place called West Stewartstown. And, that was a hike. So I had to be careful with
weather. I got caught once or twice, but, you know, it was not the end of the world as it were.

GN:
00;25;04;07 - 00;25;36;03


Brother Kenneth Hogan
37

Okay. Changing in, individual places holistically looking at changes. Before you come back to
Marist, and we’ll say something about that. But it seems to me there's been a rather dramatic
change in the Marist brother’s way, and who they are. Like, for instance, the use of the cassock,
or the wearing of the cassock, for one of them. Community life, how you spend your time
together, what kind of community life there is, is there spiritual life, community affairs, say in
the office, going to church, going to mass, retreats, all of these seem to have taken a rather
different look for the one who is one of the Marist for a while, and yet with all that said, to me,
they are the same. There's a simplicity and modesty. They’re interested and upbeat to everybody
we meet and deal with, you know, what do you think is the influence, that--what causes the
change?

KH:
00;26;23;13 - 00;26;25;00
What caused the change?

GN:
00;26;25;02 - 00;26;25;17
Yeah.

KH:
00;26;25;19 - 00;26;34;15
Well, I think we were on the cusp of--you know, I made my first vows in ‘65, and I was right in
the middle of the council.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
38

GN:
00;26;34;22 - 00;26;35;10
I see.

KH:
00;26;35;10 - 00;27;02;12
And by the time I graduated from here in the summer of ‘68, the country was a mess.

GN:
Yeah.

KH:

So, I think a lot of factors contributed to what went on. And I think a lot of people, felt that what
they had joined was not what was then existing because things seemed—I think that's an
important word—seemed to be falling apart. I didn't think it was falling apart, I thought it was
getting a serious second look. A lot of my friends left the brothers, which I found very sad. I do
to this day, because I'm still friendly with them, and I miss them. But I think we eventually found
our way, and I think God is good, and I mean that, you know? Why did I stay and somebody else
did not? I can't answer that. I really can't. I just know for me, it was what I believed I needed to
do. I needed to stay a Marist brother. But I have plenty of friends, in fact, one of my best friends
left the brothers that I speak with. probably twice a month. But I think it was just a bunch of
factors that came together at a at a difficult time.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
39

GN:
Yeah, well—

KH:

And the church went through it and religious life went through it. And I think the laity went
through it a little later, but I think they had their own upheavals. And I think of, wonderful,
wonderful lay people who doubted, but they came back too. So, I think it was one of those, felix
culpa, happy fault? You know, it happened, and hopefully we've learned something, and
hopefully we move on from here, maintain the friendships, maintain the respect for people, and
go forward.

GN:
00;28;36;17 - 00;29;01;02
Yeah. I mean, I think you had a good point. That Vatican, too, changed the whole concept of the
church. Open up the windows and let, you know, we were hanging on to things there was no
reason to hang on to within the church itself. You know, and then the social climate, ‘68 is the
great revolt and the whole election. And, experience and the campaigns and so on. And so I agree
with you. But despite it all, I mean the spirit of it is still fundamentally, when I interact with the
brothers who are still, now even within the brothers, there are some who wear the cassock until
they drop. And others, you know, we're all in between. I don't know how ( ) the brothers are.
How, when they pass away what their decision is, to be laid out in their casket or regular—



Brother Kenneth Hogan
40

KH:
00;29;30;13 - 00;29;51;04
I think it's their choice. I think they make their choices known. I think in some cases, some who
have worn lay clothes for most of their life, it's just automatically assumed. I wear my cassock on
Sunday for mass usually. I call it for state occasions, funerals and Sunday liturgy, and--

GN:
00;29;51;06 - 00;29;54;02
I think it's a good image to have, especially on the campus here.

KH:
00;29;54;02 - 00;29;57;05
I think it is too.

GN:
00;29;57;08 - 00;30;20;16
To keep the brother, I mean this is a, you know, that whole [pause] Marist College is a strange
miracle. How did this happen? I say to myself, when I come in here, almost every day. We
should talk about it a little bit more. Thanks to the brothers, though, you and Sean seem to be
playing a very important role in testing for what the new Marist would be? I mean, I saw what
happened to the Novice you just had when he came and when he left, and it's a wonderful
example if it can be duplicated again, as often as God will will it, you know, send young men in
here, let them see. Was this a carefully worked out plan or what's the, the driving force?



Brother Kenneth Hogan
41

KH:
00;30;49;25 - 00;31;10;27
Not to cop out on an answer, but I really think God's grace is what, you know, was at work here.
Sean had a vision. He shared it with the provincial council. They agreed with the vision. And
then, the college, very graciously, gave us the use of a house, a house that belonged to Danny
Kirk.

GN:
00;31;10;27 - 00;31;12;15
Yes.

KH:
00;31;12;17 - 00;31;41;05
So, once those things fell into place, then it was a case of, okay, how do we want to best offer
brother Lewis, who was the novice, the best kind of an experience that would not be monastic,
but it wouldn't be college. He had finished college, so the blend of some kind of active ministry,
some solid theology, hopefully a lot of spirituality, community life. All of that wrapped up, on a
college campus, a new model. The scholasticate from years ago was a totally different model.
There was much more of an insertion of our community here at the college for the last two years
with having Brother Lewis as a novice. and then then some of it was, you know, trial and error.
So it was, you know, okay, first time around, what's a good way of doing this? And we have to
say, we were very lucky. He's a very, very bright man. A very gifted man, and he was very open
to what we suggested and—



Brother Kenneth Hogan
42

GN:
Yeah. He was a wonderful leverage as well.

KH:
00;32;23;25 - 00;32;32;07
Oh, yeah. And he, he formed the experience for us as much as we formed that experience for
him. Absolutely.

GN:
00;32;32;09 - 00;32;32;23
Okay.

KH:
00;32;32;23 - 00;32;34;24
Absolutely.

GN:
00;32;34;27 - 00;32;47;25
All right. Let’s turn to talk about Marist college. It's a different place than what you knew. Okay.
What strikes you most about the difference? Where do you see it most?

KH:
00;32;48;00 – 00;34;13;00


Brother Kenneth Hogan
43

Well, my involvement with students is kind of minimal at this point. I'm hoping to do more of
that for as long as I'm here. I did over the years have occasion to meet some students from Marist
College, and I literally was blown away with the-- how bright they were and they are. They're
very, very, gifted young people. I think the second thing that strikes me is the diversity of what's
offered here and the opportunities that are here. who could ever have thought of those things
back when I was here in the 60s? A piece that I think plays a big part, this is truly a beautiful
place. I had my brother visit last week for about eight or nine days, and he lives in the boonies of
Maine, and he was here and he said, I can't believe how beautiful this place is, and how
energizing it is to see all these young people on a beautiful campus. And it makes you say, yeah,
he's right. So, Marist College was a good place when I was here, and we learned a lot. We got a
fabulous education, bar none, fabulous education. And I have to believe the young people here
are also getting a very, very good, if not fabulous education as well.

GN:
00;34;13;26 - 00;34;37;10
Yeah. also, the presence of women on the campus, I think has changed the all-male kind of,
roughness, you know. There’s a certain refinement I think in terms of their presence, and,
actually they're smarter than the guys. If you just look at the <laugh> of course they take it a
little more seriously, not that much more seriously but they certainly do. There’s a couple of
things I just wanted to kind of, before I leave that. Where is the church here, where is the
Catholic Church here? You--we just came from the chapel where a handful of people come,
Sundays a little bit more. What's your take on the spiritual life, or the catholicity on the campus?



Brother Kenneth Hogan
44

KH:
00;35;11;03 - 00;35;37;06
I think I'd have to break it into the pieces that you mentioned yourself here. I believe that the
young people, college people of this age, I think they're interested in spirituality. I think they are
curious about faith. I think the 70% that self-identify as Catholic, might not be all that enthused
about the church.

GN:
Yeah.

KH:
00;35;37;13 - 00;36;14;26
Because I think they find that the church says things that seems to contradict, what their
experience is, and also what they've come to believe are some basic ideas and fundamental
notions about personhood and humanity and my neighbor and things like that. So, the catholicity
piece needs a lot of work. The other factor is that this generation, they're good kids, but they've
been raised in a generation, in a society that's very challenging. And, I'm not sure that their
environment growing up supported catholicity.

GN:
00;36;23;08 - 00;36;24;17
Yeah.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
45

KH:
00;36;24;20 - 00;37;00;12
So in a way, there's a lot of pre-evangelization that needs to happen here. I think the presence of
two Marist Fathers on the campus is a wonderful, wonderful gift and a wonderful opportunity.
And they're already having an effect, and we're trying to work with them. And we do, both
campus ministry and then Sean and I as Marist Brothers, working with them and other kinds of
experiences for the kids, that are Marist evangelization, Marist fathers, Marist Brothers. It would
be great to have a Marist sister on campus, so that they have the experience of different, church
vocations. it's not going to happen overnight, but I think it's doable, but it's going to take a while.

GN:
00;37;14;17 - 00;37;39;00
Yeah. I see the point that you made there about campus ministry, which is probably the biggest
activity as I understand it, there’s something like eight hundred students that are in it. There’s a
dual motive, I mean, they do get a credit of a point for their choice of where they're going to live
and other things where they need college credit for a point system or whatever it is. But, if you
look at the generosity at Thanksgiving with the food that comes in, or the Christmas, you know,
the gifts under the tree, I mean, they give out their money and they give out their time. They
don’t spend too much time in the chapel, but they spend it I think, you know, in helping solve
social issues and getting involved in those kinds of things, so I think that’s [pause] and how it
works, that’s beyond me because, I see this van coming in and the campus ministry, and it's a
new world, you know, I thought I knew what was going on here, you know? But, there's a lot of
things I don't know what's going on here, you know? So that would be one of the things. Come
back to the driving force. What do you say are the biggest forces moving this ahead? Dennis


Brother Kenneth Hogan
46

Murray, certainly for his thirty years, played a big part in the physical development of this, and
back in the physical, no doubt it's financial. Okay, but nobody ever comes to Dennis Murray's
class. I mean, it's not his teaching so much as the--this is my take on it--but what would you see
as, is it the proximity, seventy miles from New York City or, you know, or is it, a Marist tradition
or Marist high schools that send off. I don't know what the percentage is now, how many
students here have come from a Marist school. Do you?

KH:
00;39;14;09 - 00;39;38;29
I don't know the percentage either. They are still getting some students. I wish they were getting
more, and that's a concern that we have—the brothers have. Because we think it would be a nice
continuation. And I think those students from Marist schools who would come here, I think they
would contribute to the catholicity, because I think our high schools are doing a pretty good job
on that. [Pause] See the way I see it, somebody like Dennis Murray is, in his own way, he's a
very charismatic person. Not bells and whistles, but his deep faith and his values and his
experience and his commitment to this college, his commitment to the to the Marist Brothers
over the years, his generosity has just been outstanding. And that's been a wonderful, wonderful
contribution to this college. I think there's a strong tradition still, of what the brothers who
literally built this place, many of the buildings, you know, when you tell that story and, and
students are amazed. Is that really true? Yes, that's really true. And I think that's a way of getting
the point across that the commitment that the Marist Brothers made to this place from the time
they signed the deed, up until today there are still Marist Brothers on the campus, is that we
believe in the place.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
47

GN:
Yeah.

KH:
And, so many people on the staff believe in the place. The thing is to tap into that and bring it
together and, be respectful of other faith communities that are represented on the college, but to
be able to push the Catholic identity, I think, is important.

GN:
00;41;06;03 - 00;41;31;00
Yeah. Sidestepping, I didn't even think of bringing this up, but it's related in this, it’s your
involvement also in it. And the person we talked about today, Bill Caulker, who was one of the
Marist students, a Marist brother previously, you know, and his participation in Marist Esopus—
the Marist brothers and Esopus, you know. And the summer programs—well the year programs,
because it goes on all year. So, what’s your take on that? I don’t know what question to ask of
that <laugh>.

KH:
00;41;41;08 - 00;41;43;14
In terms of the college?

GN:
00;41;43;16 - 00;41;52;19


Brother Kenneth Hogan
48

Yes. Well, and that’s it, the college I don’t think has as much part in it as I would like to know,
because I don't think too many know about it.

KH:
00;41;52;19 - 00;42;36;00
I think we'd like to break that down, though. I think we'd like to offer the, possibility of more
Marist College students, seeing the place, using the place, maybe be involved in some of the
formation programs that take place over there. And I think if we could do more of that, I think it
would be a win-win because the kids that are involved here in campus ministry, and the kids that
are involved in Catholic connections and a number of other small, religious, spiritual, Catholic
identified groups. I think they would be very, very, enthusiastic about getting involved in Esopus.
Because Esopus is a unique place. So many of the people who have volunteered there over the
years—

GN:
00;42;43;11 - 00;42;44;16
Get married there <laugh>.

KH:
00;42;44;19 - 00;43;18;10
They get married there. But even more so, they wind up going into careers and professions that
they got a taste of by working there. So many of them have gone into special education, because
there are so many youngsters during the summer who pass through who are special ed
youngsters. Even working with older special needs folk and a number of people who've gone on


Brother Kenneth Hogan
49

to be, psychologists and things like that, and teachers. So, I think it's a marriage waiting to
happen.

GN:
00;43;18;12 - 00;43;31;00
Yeah. Unfortunately, the timing is, the college is closed for the most part. When the biggest
operations are. And they could best see this in its biggest form, you know--

KH:
00;43;31;03 - 00;43;50;11
Well even during the year, though, the place is very busy over there. They run a lot of weekends,
and more and more weekday programs. So, the kids here are studying and that's their first
responsibility. But I think, you know, a few of them, invite them over, let them see what goes on
over there and see if, you know, would you like to be a part of this for one weekend? Come over
on a Friday and leave on a Sunday, see what it's like. I think they’d jump at it.

GN:
00;43;56;03 - 00;44;18;12
Yeah. One other part of that is we really would need a backup because, I mean, you can bring
them over and they can have lunch there, but if you bring thirty people over, college kids, you
know, you could run, first of all, getting them over there. We’d have to get a bus I guess, even
though there are a lot of cars around.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
50

KH:
I think—

GN:
00;44;18;14 - 00;44;19;18
I won’t organize, I’ll leave that to you <laugh>.

KH:
00;44;19;20 - 00;44;26;10
I think logistics could be worked out. I do.

GN:
00;44;26;12 - 00;44;51;08
General observations now, first of all, the crystal ball. Where do you see us, the college, ten,
twenty years from now? Will we be here? Will we be absorbed by somebody else, you know?
Will we be, turning out to absorb other people, other colleges that are closing? You know, so, do
you have a vision or looking into it what would be your guess?

KH:
00;44;53;22 - 00;45;17;11
I guess I have to say, I have great hopes that it will continue and that it will be here. What form
that's going to take? I really don't know. I'd like to think that there will always be education that's
people centered, you know, educators working with students, learning both ways. Teacher-
student, student-teacher.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
51

GN:
00;45;17;14 - 00;45;19;18
In a classroom, rather than online?

KH:
00;45;19;18 - 00;45;37;16
Well, in some kind of a setting. I hope we don't, get dragged totally into the world of electronics
and internet and all that. All those are wonderful things, and they're great tools. But I think the
basis of education is really a relationship between a teacher and a student.

GN:
00;45;37;23 - 00;45;38;07
Yeah.

KH:
00;45;38;10 - 00;45;55;15
And to the extent that we can offer that, then I think that that should be more than just the niche.
That's what education, I think needs to be about. What that's going to look like, I don't know, I
mean, I'm looking out the door here and I'm seeing all these books. Most of them—

GN:
00;45;55;17 - 00;45;56;14
Barely any people reading them.



Brother Kenneth Hogan
52

KH:
00;45;56;14 - 00;45;57;06
You don't need them.

GN:
00;45;57;13 - 00;45;57;20
Yeah <laugh>. You don’t need them, right.

KH:
00;45;57;21 - 00;46;24;29
You know, you go online, and you get all the information that you want. So, what does that mean
in terms of keeping all this this way? Even the online programs are already, facing some
difficulties because the initial enthusiasm has fallen by the wayside. The percentage of people
who sign up for online courses and finish them is, I think the last I heard, it was less than 50%.

GN:
00;46;25;06 - 00;46;26;16
Really?

KH:
00;46;26;16 - 00;46;47;19
Yeah. So that doesn't seem to me the be-all either. So I think we, would miss an opportunity if we
didn't play up teacher-student relationship, and make sure that that stays the backbone of the
college. Now, how you do that, I don't know. Is it all seminars? Is it all, you know, one on one? I
don't know, I'm not that kind of a visionary.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
53


GN:
00;46;51;20 - 00;46;59;18
We’re not the teacher to an audience of three hundred sitting in the theater over there, either, you
know.

KH:
Right.

GN:
Yeah. You have to know the person.

KH:
00;46;59;20 - 00;47;16;05
Yeah. And that's a real challenge, but I tell you, I would take a lecture, talking to an audience of
150 over doing the same thing over the course of the internet. I'd rather have the teacher and the
students.

GN:
00;47;16;07 - 00;47;48;27
Right. That's, words of the college and the crystal ball, and where we’re going. Apparently, I
mean, the numbers here are staggering, I don't know how true this is, but something like one


Brother Kenneth Hogan
54

seventh of the freshman class, their parents are in the one percentile. See, when we were here,
many of us, we were the first in the family to go to college, you know. And we were sons of
carpenters and firemen and policemen, which in that day was a quite a status.

KH:
Yeah.

GN:
But now, they’re civil servants for the most part, you know. All right. That's, general
observations. If you had to go, or had a chance to go to the board of trustees. They, because
you’re one of the Marist brothers on campus. What are maybe two or three things you would say
about them that could be improved? Or should they maybe keep the same? This is precious that
you have, Marist Priests here on campus or that you have, a ministry program or that you have
multilingual students, I mean.


KH:
00;48;35;03 - 00;49;45;07
I would plead with them to protect the identity of Marist College. Yeah. And then I would ask
them to be consistent with the branding of this institution. You know that Marist College is a
unique place. It's got a rich tradition of Catholic Marist education. And while it might not be
officially associated with the church, that Marist Catholic education has done well by this
college. And I think to keep that identity is important and also, the brand. What is the brand of


Brother Kenneth Hogan
55

Marist College? Primarily, it's undergraduate education, and that has to remain the focus. Yes,
you need to do graduate work. You need to have the other programs. It's interesting to have a
medical school. That's all wonderful. But undergraduate education, where you can really
influence young people in terms of values and behavior and attitudes, and again, wrapped up in
the Catholic in the Marist piece, that's what I would say. Please protect that. Don't let that slide.

GN:
00;49;45;09 - 00;49;58;24
Yeah. Okay. And, do you see some disappointment—what would be your biggest disappointment
in Marist? That's a touchy question. I don't really want to put it that way, but—

KH:
00;49;58;26 - 00;50;29;12
Well, it's, you know, it's, I wouldn't say it's a disappointment, but it's something that you
mentioned before. You know, the college has to pay its bills, you know. I just wish, though, there
were more people making more money available to the college so that, even a greater cross-
section of youngsters who don't have, socio-economic backgrounds to attend this school would
be able to do that.

GN:
00;50;26;03 - 00;51;12;09
Let me just see. I—most—the Marist brothers as we see them now, I think are very positive in
their outlook of the college. I think if there was a time when they wanted to assure that this was a
good venture, that, you know, we were absorbing some of the best teachers to come here,


Brother Kenneth Hogan
56

draining the high schools of the LaPietras, and Jeptha Lanning you know, so, I do think that has
changed from what I would get from my brother. They are just as anxious to read the magazines,
of what Marist has done that went well. Is that true?

KH:
00;51;18;27 - 00;51;40;28
I think it is. I think it is. I think the, there is an interest in the college. I mean, again, the older
brothers in the province and well, you know, the majority of us are older brothers, but I mean, the
fellows who preceded me, who built this place, you know, they're, I think they're still committed
to the place, and I still think they're enthusiastic about the place. The younger people, who went
here after the builders, I think we all look back fondly on the place. You know, I think the
brothers are interested, and I think they're supportive. I think there were a couple of bumps in the
road. Pretty heavy-duty bumps.

GN:
00;52;02;04 - 00;52;02;22
Yeah.

KH:
00;52;02;25 - 00;52;05;12
But I think that's passed. Yeah, it's passed.

GN:
00;52;05;14 - 00;52;10;07


Brother Kenneth Hogan
57

Yeah, well. I’m recalling the marrying of the cemetery <laugh>.

KH:
00;52;10;14 - 00;52;12;28
Well, I didn't want to bring that up <laugh>.

GN:
00;52;13;05 - 00;52;35;23
Okay. Yeah. But I mean, at the time, it had to be the decision to be made because without it, you
know, and transferring the bodies to Esopus was another deal. I mean, people have talked about
that many times, well, not so publicly. But their ancestors in France would have to obey the
approval of this. And there was always the thought that there's a money deal involved, you know,
so that that was an unfortunate situation. One other area of concern that I have that I've reassured
by Sean, on his analysis of the world in terms of the Marist brothers universally. Whereas we
have a drop in locations here, at any time in the not-too-distant future, there could be a
resurgence just because of belief in religious attitudes and the spiritual life, you know, and it has
happened in other places. So, are you as optimistic as he, in this?

KH:
00;53;19;16 - 00;54;43;03
Yeah. See, I don't see an alternative. Really, you know, how could I not be? And I'm not pie in
the sky, though some of my friends say that I am, I'm enthusiastic about it because I think there'll
always be a need for people to work with youngsters. And you know, as we get older, we become
the grandfather figures, I guess.


Brother Kenneth Hogan
58

GN:
Yeah.

KH:
So we may not be in the classroom, but we can be in the schools. We can be around the schools.
We can be at the camps. We can be at the retreats and things like that. And so, we can have our
influence. But there's also, I think, a whole wealth of young people out there that we have to tap
into, because I think there's a lot of generosity out there. You step outside the United States and
the numbers are good. The numbers in Europe are not. The numbers in Africa are good. The
numbers in South America are good. The numbers in Asia are good. So, as the church's numbers
are more reflective, in size in those areas, so religious presence is the same. Now, can we here in
the States and can Western Europe come back? Pope Francis thinks so. I agree with him. But
again, you know, we've got to make the effort. We've got to be out there, selling the gospel.

GN:
00;54;43;10 - 00;55;16;29
Right, right. Evangelization, kind of letting the good news out isn’t easy. Well, Ken we’re
approaching the first hour <laugh>. There’s probably many more if we just turn the page and
start talking about another route. Before we go, is there something I didn't say that you would
like to add to your observations? Because this has been very insightful for me, and I'm sure, this
is transcribed, so when others read it they will say, wow, you know, this is a great story here, but
something more?


Brother Kenneth Hogan
59

KH:
00;55;17;04 - 00;56;11;20
The only thing that I would add, as I look back specifically to Marist College, I was thinking
today, you know, of the teachers that I had here, some of whom I've named, but there are others
as well. Doctor Drennan was a wonderful teacher, Jeptha Lanning was an incredible teacher. Bob
Lewis was an incredible teacher. Felix Shurkus was very different, but he was a good teacher.
There was a French teacher, Gabrielite brother, Brother Joseph Turcotte. The Gabrielites were
here at the time that we were here, they're a small Canadian group. He was a great teacher. John
O'Shea taught us French; he was a good teacher. These were remarkable men who really were
the pioneers of this college, both brothers and lay teachers. And, I mean, they really challenged
you. And I'm grateful for that. I really, really am.

GN:
00;56;11;22 - 00;57;28;26
I think somewhere in the history, if someone who gets around to do it, they better do it soon,
because we're olding--we'll be off the scene. And those people you just mentioned, some of them
we’ve done already, in a way. You know, we have a picture of ( ), we have a picture of Jeptha
Lanning you know, we have a picture of Larry Sullivan. So, and then we have little stories about
them. Except, John O'Shea, I don't think we have anything of him in public. You know, and, oh,
the provincials at the time, Linus William. You know, this, there's something missing the
historical development. How did this happen? Paul Ambrose.

KH:


Brother Kenneth Hogan
60

Yeah.

GN:
I mean, when I write, well I give the lecture on the high street and development. You know, he
came here with a master's degree in library science and, you know, always told us he wished to
make it a four-year college. You know, he had no budget. He had no endowment. He had no
faculty, okay? He had a farm. You know, and he had a very small staff of four, you know. And
yet he sits down, not even being able to type with five fingers, just two pecking away. No carbon
paper, no secretary, no law council. And within two years, he gets a shot at it <laugh>. It's a
remarkable story, you know. But very few people, it's a very small, hidden story about the roots
of this place, you know? So, well, I can't thank you enough because it’s been, some of it I know
and in a sort of way you enlightened it, you’ve enlightened me, your own account of yourself
and what you've done was new to me too. And so, with all of that, thank you very much.

KH:
00;57;59;00 - 00;58;04;20
All right, thank you Gus for the opportunity.

GN:
00;58;04;22 - 00;58;10;00
Okay. So here it says off, [pause] stop.
END OF INTERVIEW