Interview with: Gerry McNulty
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Lola-Dillon Cahill
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections










Gerry McNulty

2

Interviewee:
Brother Paul Ambrose
Interviewer:
Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers
Interview Date:
7 December 2022
Location:
James A. Cannavino Library
Topic:
Gus Nolan interviews Gerry McNulty for a second time to learn more specific details
about his life as a Marist College student, employee, and other aspects of his life.
Subject Headings:
Gerry McNulty
Marist College History

Marist College, Poughkeepsie, NY
Communication Department
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Newspaper
Summary:
Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers interviewed Gerry McNulty about his decision to come to
Marist rather than stay in his hometown, the extracurriculars that got him involved with the
school newspaper, and internships that landed himself and his peers’ jobs after graduation. They
also discussed his experiences in professional news companies and the moments and people that
inspired him to manage interns.



Gerry McNulty

3

Jan Stivers (
00:00
): Okay, we're live.
Gus Nolan (
00:02
): Good afternoon. Today is December the seventh. Again, a day that
will live infamy eighty-one years ago, but today is a new day. Today we have a chance to
introduce an old Marist student, professor and a special person to us all Gerry McNulty. Good to
see you, Gerry.
Gerry McNulty (
00:22
): Hello, Gus. Very nice to be here.
GN
(
00:24
): So this is the second time around. We, talked about, early life and Marist in 2018.
Since then I've thought about it and a lot of things that you said then I want to pick up on and,
see how you feel about it now.
GM
(
00:40
): Sure.
GN
(
00:41
): So we're going to pass by the introductory things about where you were born, Deer
Park growing up, et cetera.
GM
(
00:46
): Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay.
GN
(
00:46
): But I looked, one thing I would like to look more into, your early life. You were
sixth out of eight, is that right?
GM
(
00:57
): Children, yes. Six out of eight. Yes.
GN
(
01:00
): Right. And so you are in the bottom rung of that family. Your two sisters are after
you? Is that--


Gerry McNulty

4

GM
(
01:07
): I had, there were two girls and then two boys. And then an eight year gap. I don't
know, that was a Catholic timeout. I'm not sure what happened there. And then <laugh> and then
two boys and two girls. Yeah. So eight children in all.
GN
(
01:21
): And so you're the sixth.
GM
(
01:22
): I was number six.
GN
(
01:23
): So there's two girls under you.
GM
(
01:24
): And I had two sisters. Two younger sisters, yes.
GN
(
01:26
): Right. Okay. Didn't you talk about your brothers coming out of the Navy and so,
was there just one in the Navy or were there--
GM
(
01:35
): My, yes. My older brother Joe went into the Navy in 1965. And came out in 1969.
GN
(
01:41
): Oh, okay.
GM
(
01:42
): And he served aboard aircraft carriers. And he did, he himself will say that he was
very lucky, almost. And then he got all the way through most of 1968. And then he got a new
assignment for a ship, and that ship was sent to Vietnam. So unfortunately, the last, his last year
he was in the combat patrol. Yeah.
GN
(
02:06
): Wow. Okay. That about the family. But family life, you know, you grew up in this
Long Island area. And you talk about sports, little league and you talk about football and so on.
GM
(
02:23
): Yes.


Gerry McNulty

5

GN
(
02:23
): It was a happy life?
GM
(
02:26
): It was a relatively happy life. I, we did have, our, certainly our share of challenges.
You know, I mean, my father was an alcoholic, so there were many difficulties, you know, inside
the home. And there were, there were nights shall we say, you know, without electricity, because
he had, you know, gone to the racetrack on Friday afternoon with his paycheck and, lost it. Okay.
And next week couldn't pay the light bill. So we had a few incidents like that. We didn't live like
that that day after day, but <laugh>.
GN
(
03:00
): No. But, the other picture I have is the gas station of a filling station.
GM
(
03:04
): Oh, yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
GN
(
03:04
): Was that operative when you were there?
GM
(
03:06
): Yes, yes.
GN
(
03:07
): Did you work at that at any time filling up cars or no?
GM
(
03:09
): I did, yes. And that was, and that whole situation was a family situation. My
grandfather, whom I never knew, who died in 1945, I believe, had, grown up in Brooklyn and
ran--run--a printing business, and then came out to Long Island for, to build a vacation home in
about 1926 or '27. And he started a little country store on the side of this road that's called Deer
Park Avenue, which was almost a dirt path in 1927, <laugh>. And that, that country store
developed into a small gas station. And then he built a house next to it. And then he built another
store building next to that. And by the time I was born in '57, my mother's brother, my uncle, had
inherited the gas station. He was running that. And my family lived with, you know, with my


Gerry McNulty

6

mother in the house that was built for the vacations <laugh>. And so it was a family sort of
operation there.
GN
(
04:07
): At the gas station. Did it have a mechanic service? Did you service cars as well?
GM
(
04:10
): Yes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. We did. And I worked there from the time
that I was fourteen until I was eighteen, nineteen years old.
GN
(
04:15
): So you know how to change a spark plug?
GM
(
04:17
): I do, yes. I did oil changes and tire swaps.
GN
(
04:22
): Okay. I just want to get some practical knowledge, because most of your life is in
education. And that's, you know, <laugh>.
GM
(
04:29
): <Laugh> I was really good at, my uncle used to say he would send us out to sweep
the driveway, which of course, when you were fifteen, you did not realize that the driveway did
not need to be swept. It's just that we were sitting on the benches reading comic books. And so
he would say, so then he used to praise my abilities to sweep the driveway. You're doing a great
job out there. Why are we doing this? <laugh>
GN
(
04:51
): Then yeah, bypassing high school. I want to get to college and, what surprises me is
that, your brother drives you up here to Marist College. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. Did,
was there a way, why weren't you going to be able to come here?
GM
(
05:11
): It was a very, my plan had been to stay on Long Island. What little there existed of
a plan when I was graduating from high school to stay on Long Island and maybe take some


Gerry McNulty

7

classes at a community college. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And this was, what I wanted to do. I
had two teachers, in particular, and a guidance counselor who kept writing little notes, like
sending them to my mother saying that, you know, little Gerry should go to college. This is not,
and so I don't know what I had done to make this impression on them. I really still to this day, I
don't, but I was not a stellar student. I had about a ninety, eighty-nine, ninety average. So there
were many, many students far better than me academically.
GN
(
05:54
): Yeah. A lot more young, absolutely, than the other side too.
GM
(
05:56
): But, yeah. But, they kept writing her these little notes, you know. And then,
essentially what happened was my father died in April of that year, of my senior year. I see. And
at that point, a guidance counselor kind of pulled me aside and took me, through the process and
said, this is how you apply. I had no idea how college worked. No one in my family had ever
been to college. My mother was taken out of school in the sixth grade by her father, and my
father quit school in the middle of high school to deliver ice as a boy, teenage boy, in Jersey
City. So they did not know what college, I mean, they knew what college was, but they just kind
of shrugged their shoulders like, what is this? What do you need this for? You go out and get a
job.
GN
(
06:41
): But your brother seemed to go along with it. He was,
GM
(
06:44
): Well, he had been through the Navy. He had been through several training,
situations in the Navy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. He was a high school graduate, but I think he
met many, certainly officers who were college men, so to speak. So he understood. Now he was
in his middle twenties. He understood like, ah, this is, yeah. <laugh>.


Gerry McNulty

8

GN
(
07:02
): It's worthwhile.
GM
(
07:02
): Yeah. You could go to college. Yeah.
GN
(
07:04
): Yeah. Okay.
JS
(
07:06
): What a gift that was, he gave you.
GM
(
07:08
): Yeah, yeah.
JS
(
07:09
): Belief in you and vision for you.
GM
(
07:11
): Yeah. He drove me up here. My mother didn't trust me to drive up to the wilds of
upstate New York by myself. <laugh>. So she said, "you have to take him up there," <laugh>.
JS
(
07:21
): Why Marist?
GN
(
07:22
): Well, when you arrived on campus,
GM
(
07:23
): What?
GN
(
07:24
): There were some buildings up <laugh>. I mean, it was not a farm.
GM
(
07:30
): Yes, I know.
GN
(
07:32
): I think Donnelley was up.
GM
(
07:35
): Absolutely.
GN
(
07:35
): Sheahan was up, perhaps. I'm not sure--


Gerry McNulty

9

GM
(
07:38
): So I came in '75, so, so the three high-rise dormitories were all up, of course. And
the campus center building and, and Donnelley, and the old gymnasium, which I know you know
very well.
GN
(
07:50
): Yeah.
GM
(
07:51
): McCann was built when I was here. McCann was built in '77, '78. So it wasn't here
when I first came.
GN
(
07:58
): Okay, so Linus Foy is president.
GM
(
08:00
): Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Dr. Foy
GN
(
08:00
): Yeah, because I remember him saying that would b1e the last building, McCann,
you know, other dedication. So, plus we had run through the budget, we had no more money. In
fact, we didn't even own money to pay for that. We can't pay for it.
GM
(
08:15
): We were thrilled, the students, we were absolutely thrilled to even watch that
building be constructed. It was so big. And we couldn't wait. And it finally, my memory is that it
opened in the spring, I think of '78, I think like February or March, they opened the building.
And we, the kids, I mean, we were, it was fabulous. We were over there playing basketball at
two o'clock in the morning. I mean, we wouldn't leave <laugh> you know. So much fun.
GN
(
08:38
): But the old gym was still there.
GM
(
08:40
): It was.
GN
(
08:41
): And it was a gym, it wasn't dormitories yet.


Gerry McNulty

10

GM
(
08:43
): It was a gym. Yep. There was a weight room, weight training room in the back. A
small locker room. There was a basketball floor, of course.
GN
(
08:50
): A locker room.
GM
(
08:50
): And we used that for many things. We used to actually, every, every once in a
while hold parties in that gym. Yeah. Because it was a large space.
GN
(
08:58
): I talked to an architect later on, or rather photographer, and couldn't get over the, so-
called multipurposes of it. That was used for, assemblies, it was a gym, it was a chapel, you
know, it depended on the occasion. There's a big open space that could be used for multiple
affairs. And, indeed it was. Okay. One last subject and then I'll let Jan say a few words.
GM
(
09:26
): Sure.
GN
(
09:26
): Just a few.
JS
(
09:28
): <laugh>.
GN
(
09:28
): What did you want to study? I see confusion between American studies or
American history.
GM
(
09:37
): Yeah. So, I thought once I had sort of made this, transition, I guess in my mind, to
my previous idea that I was going to take a few classes here and there and, you know, get a job
in the phone company. My brother, my older brother had a very good job in the phone company.
He was a technician. And I thought, this is fabulous. He gets a paycheck, he's driving a Camaro.
I mean, you know, this is how, this is the best you can do, you know, in life. And so <laugh>, so


Gerry McNulty

11

I, you know, in those short months there, April, May, I had decided, okay, maybe I'll go away to
college. I'll try this. Everybody seems to think this is a good idea for me. And in fact, one of the
turning points was very, today, it's funny to me. But I got a phone call from a man. He said his
name was Coach Levine, from Marist College. And I said, oh, yes, okay, coach <laugh>. And he
began to describe the football team. This was probably in May. You know, I had, I think I had
been accepted at the school fairly quickly in a matter of weeks or something. And so, he began to
describe the football team, and he kept saying, you know, it's a club football team, so it's not like
big stakes college football, but anybody can play. Do you want to play? And I had played
football from the time I was eight, nine years old. I said, well, this is, I didn't even, you know, I
had not applied for this or asked about it or anything. So that was it for me. I'm like, oh, they
want me to go up there and play football this is terrific. You know? So I went up there to play
football. So, needless to say, when I arrived, even though it was a club football team, there were
me and two other guys who were under five foot eleven and <laugh>. There were a lot of big
guys. So I lasted most of my freshman year season. I think I played in seven games. And then I
said to the coach, these guys are killing me. <laugh>. I'm not a big guy. I can't do this anymore.
<laugh>.
JS
(
11:25
): In retrospect, smart really.
GM
(
11:28
): But I loved it. I had a lot of fun.
GN
(
11:30
): Do you remember the name of the team?
GM
(
11:32
): The name of the team?
GN
(
11:33
): Yeah.


Gerry McNulty

12

GM
(
11:33
): Well, I think we called ourselves the Vikings.
GN
(
11:36
): You're right.
GM
(
11:37
): I don't know why. We were all like, aren't, the crew guys were the Red Foxes and
the basketball team were the Red Foxes. And for some reason, the football team called
themselves the Vikings.
GN
(
11:46
): We bought the uniforms from a team that was closing, and Vikings was on their
shirts. <laugh>. That's how we became the Vikings.
GM
(
11:53
): I really knew, I didn't know what the heck was going on, most of freshman year, I
have to say.
GN
(
11:57
): We sent two station wagons out to pick up the uniforms. And the gear, you know.
And, I remember I talked to Levine, I think he was interviewed somewhere along the way here.
And he says, the guys didn't know how to put their shoulder pads on, you know, and they all
pretended they knew about it. They didn't know from nothing, you know. But, so, yeah.
GM
(
12:15
): The football team was also, I would say, a good introduction to how, power works.
So, we're playing along in practices and whatever in the first couple of weeks. And there's two or
three guys that are throwing passes, and they're obviously the quarterbacks or whatever. And we
keep hearing Coach Levine yell out to, I don't remember now, his first name, you know,
whatever it was, you know, Jack or whatever. He keeps yelling, "Jack, go run this play, run this
play, run this play". I finally said that one of the guys was standing like, who's this guy Jack?
And they're like, that's the coach's son. <laugh>


Gerry McNulty

13

JS
(
12:47
): <laugh>
GN
(
12:47
): Oh.
GM
(
12:50
): So there were three guys trying out for quarterback, except really only one was
trying for quarterback <laugh>. He was a very nice guy. But, he was the coach's son, and he was
going to be the starting quarterback.
JS
(
13:01
): He's been preparing for this since he was three <laugh>.
GM
(
13:04
): Yes, he has <laugh>.
GN
(
13:06
): Jan, ask him something about academics.
JS
(
13:09
): Well, why Marist? Why did you apply to Marist?
GM
(
13:15
): Really, from the overview of things, because it was recommended by a guidance
counselor, I really did not know very much about schools. I had never really been away from
home, with the exception of spending four nights with my high school football team on a college
campus, someplace in New Jersey. To this day, I don't know where we were. It was just a
training camp thing. It was the only time I had ever been away from my home. So I was quite,
ignorant is, I think the, a good term to use. And no one, as I say, in my family, my mother,
father, my uncles, aunts, no one really knew much about, I had several cousins who had gone off
to a couple of the military academies, but it, it didn't, the information wasn't coming to me. Like,
how do you do that? It was lost on me. So this guidance counselor in particular kept saying, well,
there's several of these very good schools. I think one was Pace. He kept saying this Pace, and
how about this Marist one, they, you could get in there. And they have so many things that you


Gerry McNulty

14

like, I said, do they have history? He said oh, yes, they have history. So I wanted to study
history, and I, so I immediately made the connection in my mind. Well, what I will do is I will go
up to this Marist place, and I will study history, and I will graduate and become a football coach.
So this made perfect sense to me. At the age of eighteen, I'm going to play football, I said, this is
terrific. So I arrive here and I discovered that the coach's son is going to be the quarterback and
<laugh>, and, you know, and I met a bunch of guys. I'm having a lot of fun. And, shall we say, I
was introduced to two particular, conditions.
GN
(
14:55
): Oh, I see.
GM
(
14:56
): Yeah. One was girls and the <laugh>, and the other was beer. So by the end of
freshman year, <laugh>, I decided that Marist was a really good place for me to stay for a long
time, I should say, for a long time. And so my teachers said, well, you can only stay for four
years. Okay. So I began to study--
JS
(
15:13
): Little did they know.
GM
(
15:13
): Little did they know. So, I began to take, I took, American Studies. I thought that
was a really cool version of history. When I read this description, and I was assigned to a man
named Tom Casey, professor Tom Casey, who I immediately adored. I was lucky that I got into
a class with him freshman year. And he just was terrific. What a, you know, kind, person he was.
And, smart person. And I took his class, and I took another one of his classes. And so I was
taking American Studies classes, and general education credits or whatever we called them at
the, in those days, the core curriculum. We didn't call it the core curriculum. I don't remember
what it was called. And, but what happened in my journey, essentially was, I was, an amateur


Gerry McNulty

15

photographer. I had been in high school, and I had worked on my high school yearbook and
done, taken several photography classes, and done a fair bit with photography. So when I got to
Marist, I was immediately sort of spotted by a guy who was the, they were called RCs. He was
the resident coordinator. So he was the supervisor of the RAs on our floor in Champagnat.
GM
(
16:23
): His name was Kevin Kavanaugh. And he saw me marching around with my
camera. I have a thirty-five millimeter camera. He said, oh, you have a thirty-five? I said, yes, I
do, Kevin. Oh. He says, well, you should come and help us on the yearbook. He said we take
pictures of all kinds of things. So I got drafted, during freshman year to help out. And I started
shooting pictures for the yearbook. And that being drafted by the yearbook staff meant that I was
then identified by the school newspaper people, The Circle. They said, oh, who's this guy with a
camera? We need pictures too. So once I started to work with The Circle kids, and that again was
probably spring of freshman year, and then a lot more in the beginning of sophomore year, said,
they said, several of them said, oh, you have to take the journalism class and come with us, and
then you can take the journalism class. And I took the journalism class, and that introduced me to
writing news stories. And I, there was my name now in the first, I had gotten my name on
credits, photo credits in the yearbook, and then in the newspaper. But now my name was
underneath the headlines. Well, this was, so I was, I had to go see Professor Casey and tell him
that I have to change my major. I'm sorry, professor Casey.
JS
(
17:36
): That's a great story, though.
GM
(
17:36
): I decided to become a communication major.


Gerry McNulty

16

JS
(
17:39
): But we really like to hear that. I wish I'd known that story when I was an advisor.
About the value of the extracurricular activities in really figuring out who you are.
GM
(
17:48
): Oh, it made a big difference to me. And, it was tactical. It was creative. The
newspaper experience. Now, the yearbook was fun, but the yearbook had a frequency challenge,
if you will. There was one, you published one book a year, and you went through these
segmented deadlines about every four or six weeks, we would assemble six or eight pages,
whatever, and bundle them up. And the guy would come from the yearbook company, the
salesman. He would flip through them and go, oh, yeah, they're fabulous. I'm sure half of them
were terrible. And then, you know, he was a salesman. And so off he went. And then you would
have no feedback or contact or anything for another six weeks. But the newspaper kids, they
were in the room every Tuesday night. Eight, ten, twelve, writing.
GN
(
18:35
): And there was a reaction, whenever the paper came out there was a reaction.
GM
(
18:35
): Reactions, yeah, people would, you'd walk down to the cafeteria, people would be
looking at it, ripping it apart, making fun of it or whatever. So the newspaper was instant
feedback. It was tremendous.
JS
(
18:44
): And instant friends.
GM
(
18:46
): Yes, it was hard. We would make mistakes and see our mistakes right there and go,
oh my goodness, <laugh>, we can't do that next week. We've got to fix that.
GN
(
18:54
): Who taught journalism?


Gerry McNulty

17

GM
(
18:56
): I, a woman named Mimi McAndrew. Mimi McAndrew from the Poughkeepsie
Journal.
GN
(
19:01
): Yeah, yeah.
GM
(
19:02
): So Mimi was a, very interesting person. And my wife and I had a lifelong
friendship with Mimi McAndrew through many challenges, because Mimi was about eight
tenths, super duper journalism person, and two tenths nuts.
GN
(
19:21
): <Laugh>.
GM
(
19:21
): So she <laugh>. So she went and she was a wonderful person. She was very kind,
but she had an erratic side to her, and she was given to, absolutely problematic emotional
outbursts from time to time. And she would call you every name in the book when she was mad
at you about something. And then like, the next day, say hello and walk right past you and you're
like, okay, Mimi, what did I do now? But she was a terrific reporter and editor. She was, she
worked for the Poughkeepsie Journal for many years, and I don't know how she got, you know,
called in to do the class here, but she taught probably on and off for maybe ten years. She taught
the only journalism class that was on the books in the 1970s.
GN
(
20:03
): Uh-huh <affirmative>.
GM
(
20:03
): Yeah. And, yeah--
JS
(
20:05
): So you graduated with a, your degree was in?
GM
(
20:06
): Communication.


Gerry McNulty

18

JS
(
20:06
): Communication.
GM
(
20:06
): 1979.
JS
(
20:09
): And just a single journalism course.
GM
(
20:12
): I think we only had one that I remember. There might have been a second one that's
possible, or there might have been like a special topics. But we all took Mimi's class, and then
we would call her from the payphone in the student center on Tuesday night. Mimi, this is going
to be our headline. Oh, don't say that. The, okay. <laugh>, change it. Okay. <laugh>. And she
would give us, she was an unofficial advisor because we didn't know what the heck we were
doing. We were eighteen, nineteen years old.
GN
(
20:38
): How about life on campus? It was pretty exciting in its own ways.
GM
(
20:41
): I mean, I loved it. I had a lot of trouble leaving in 1979. I was one of those kids,
like, we have to go? <Laugh>.
JS
(
20:52
): We have those kids today.
GM
(
20:53
): Wait, well, don't you understand? There are both beer and girls here. <laugh>. So,
life on campus, I mean, I was active in the Gaelic Society. I was active with, obviously the
newspaper, the yearbook, with campus ministry. My, as you, I'm sure you know my very good
friend, Rich LaMorte, Father LaMorte.
GN
(
21:17
): Yes, indeed.


Gerry McNulty

19

GM
(
21:18
): Who was a big, big influential figure here, in the 1970s and '80s. And I actually just
had lunch with Rich LaMorte, last week. And, so life was, to me, very exciting. We had,
obviously these clubs going on and doing different activities. We would have parties in our
rooms. Of course, the, culture was different then surrounding young people and drinking and
partying, because the drinking age was eighteen. Yeah. So we had our beer bashes, and we had
our, you know, cocktail party.
GN
(
21:53
): We had beer on campus.
GM
(
21:54
): We had beer on campus, in The Rathskellar. You know, but we also had, many
organized, you know, we used to call them mixers, I don't know what they call them today. And,
where beer and wine were served, and usually in the cafeteria. And we would, you know, a band
would come in, a live band would play. Bob Lynch had a band.
GN
(
22:14
): Oh, yeah?
GM
(
22:14
): And Bob Lynch performed many times. I always get a kick out of when I'm
standing someplace or chatting with Bob, turning to one of his students and say, have you ever
heard him play the guitar? You know, he used to have a band--
GN
(
22:26
): Weren't there busloads of girls who came to visit from St. Mary's or something?
GM
(
22:29
): Sometimes, yes.
GN
(
22:31
): Sometimes downstream.
GM
(
22:32
): Yep, sometimes. Yep.


Gerry McNulty

20

JS
(
22:34
): Well how many women were in your classes then?
GM
(
22:36
): You know, I'm going to guess that it was maybe forty percent women in those
days.
JS
(
22:40
): Oh, ok.
GM
(
22:40
): I don't think, do you think Gus that it was half and half?
GN
(
22:43
): No, no.
GM
(
22:43
): I don't think so in the seventies.
JS
(
22:44
): But close?
GM
(
22:45
): It was, there were many, you know, female students.
GN
(
22:50
): I mean you started with zero, so you, we needed to grow.
GM
(
22:52
): By '75 when I came, I think it was probably, well, I lived in Champagnant. So, in
Champagnat Hall, and I lived in Champagnat, that's another thing I'd love to get a kick out of
saying to the students. I lived in the same building for four years. The current students, they have
no idea what to do with that, they're like, they move all around. My daughter was a student
fifteen or twenty years ago, whatever. She never lived in the same building second semester. She
moved <laugh> all around the campus, and I never left my building. I was a Champagnat boy all
the way. So we, our dormitory was organized into a split or halves. And there was a boy's wing,
we called it a wing, boy's wing, and a girl's wing, and a boy's wing and a girl's wing all the way
up. And then I think only on the eighth and ninth floor, where they boys only up there. So almost


Gerry McNulty

21

half the building in Champagnat was women. But then the flip side was when you went to
Sheahan, only one floor was women, and the other two floors were men. So you could see the
imbalance there in the different buildings. Yeah. But we had a lot of activities that we did that
were organized with the clubs. And, I loved it. And I, but I was active. I mean, some people of
course, were not so active.
GN
(
23:59
): When you say that, you know something about campus life now? I mean, in the last
ten years.
GM
(
24:04
): Yeah.
GN
(
24:04
): You've been ( ). Is it any way the same?
GM
(
24:10
): I think what's better about it now, in the last even fifteen, twenty years, what's
better is the diversity. Because the honest answer is we were a very homogenous group.
Everybody was Catholic. Everybody was from Long Island, north Jersey. I had two friends who
were from Margate in Atlantic City, where people would say they were from Jersey, but not
really Jersey. They're from Bergen County and Union County and Essex County. Oh. And then
there's like a couple of guys, <laugh>, one guy's from Margate, <laugh>, Atlantic City, you
know, a handful of kids from Philadelphia. So we were all a very, contiguous bunch, if you will.
And I think it's--
GN
(
24:47
): ( ) right to the island, there's only one place. It's the island.
GM
(
24:50
): Yeah. I, so I think it's better for the kids today that they have, I mean, I enjoyed
having students from Texas as a teacher, having students from Ohio, et cetera. And I think it's


Gerry McNulty

22

better for the kids themselves to have that experience. But I think that they have a much richer,
which is normal, much richer, cultural mix here with their clubs and activities and the students,
the complexion, if you will, of the student body itself. And ours was relatively narrow. But I
think that's just, you know, that was just a--
JS
(
25:21
): Growing pains.
GM
(
25:23
): Yeah. I mean, a normal situation. The college was really very young. Very young,
as an institution in the 1970s. It's still not so old.
GN
(
25:35
): Right.
GM
(
25:35
): We were sixty plus years old.
GN
(
25:36
): Wow. I was here when--
GM
(
25:37
): Our neighbors across town are, what, 175 years or something? And <laugh>. So
we're just getting started.
GN
(
25:43
): I was here when the charter came. I was a student when they got the charter for four
years. A small part of the next section, will deal with journalism.
GM
(
25:55
): Sure.
GN
(
25:55
): And your working in newspaper business.
GM
(
25:58
): Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.
GN
(
25:59
): Talk about that for a bit. You went to a small newspaper upon graduation.


Gerry McNulty

23

GM
(
26:04
): I did. Well, first what I have to do to preface that is to talk about Professor Bob
Norman.
GN
(
26:10
): Okay.
GM
(
26:11
): So, professor Bob Norman, who has, passed, was one of my teachers. And he was
instrumental in me starting my career, as he was for any number of dozens of other students in,
you know, in my timeframe. So Professor Bob Norman was a communication professor who had
worked in and continued even in the 1970s to work in the radio news business. And he had been
in the radio news business as a young guy and had gotten an advanced degree and started
teaching. And he knew, he both knew many people who worked in the news business, and he, of
course, knew the industry, what it took to get there, et cetera. Knew a lot about the news
business. And Bob Norman created the communication internship, program, if you will, by
himself. And in those days in particular, in the 1970s, he was the program. So obviously we had
a little credit, you know, we had a course description, but everything went through Bob and his
contacts and his knowledge and his mentorship. And so, I mean, I did two or three different
internships with, you know, with Bob as my teacher and mentor and leader and have him giving
advice on how to apply, what to expect, what your skill set was, what to do when you got there.
And you know, I ended up growing myself into a job <laugh> in mid-career that replaced, if you
will, or succeeded. I really should say in fairness, succeeded Bob a couple of years after he had
retired. So really my hat is always off to Bob Norman for getting me started. And also my wife,
and also a dozen other people that I know who went into journalism in the 70s and early '80s. So
for me personally now, I was very fortunate to have an internship at the Poughkeepsie Journal in
my senior year. So, where I was yelled at by the city editor on numerous days. And that taught


Gerry McNulty

24

me, by the end of that internship, that I should expect two things. Number one, I will not have
my own typewriter. I have to share it with other people. Number two, I'm going to get yelled at.
So that was what, <laugh> "You call this a lead? Where's McNulty, get over here. What is wrong
with these four words right here?" So that's it. The newsrooms were a little bit raucous in those
days. And, then Bob Norman, after I thought I had basically failed the internship, Bob Norman
called me into his office one day and said, you did a wonderful job there <laugh>. I'm like I did?
They yelled at me every week, Bob <laugh>. So.
JS
(
28:59
): Wow.
GM
(
28:59
): So, but I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't realize, I was doing just fine, you
know.
JS
(
29:04
): This was, yeah, this was normal.
GM
(
29:04
): And, yeah I didn't know. Yeah, right. I, so then he took me, literally put me in his
car, drove me to Manhattan, and took me to the offices of the Associated Press. And he was
doing this for, you know, numerous students, you know, and talked me into a, yep, there you go.
So you're going to be, I was the next in line for an internship at the Associated Press. And that
was, really an amazing experience to be in the city. And I was a kid from Long Island, so I didn't
know how to get on the train and go back and forth. And I was able, in those days, to do full-
time. We used to do fifteen credits, so it was a full-time, academic credit internship and work
essentially like thirty-six hours a week or something. We worked seven hours a day, five days a
week. So I went to the city and I was, after three or four weeks of sitting at the desk learning how
to do basic things, I was sent off to here, go to the Saudi Arabian mission and interview this


Gerry McNulty

25

sheikh who's going to talk about US relations. Okay. Off you go at twenty years old and with
your notebook and you kind of jump in line with the other photographers and make believe you
know what you're doing and come back and write a story about it. And, off to City Hall, I did
four weeks in a rotation. I was on, I was twice with Mayor Kotch, once in the elevator with him,
<laugh> up in some big office building where we were going to a news conference, an officer,
police officer had been shot and they were holding a news conference in some big office building
someplace. And another time, there was a union strike and they brought all the reporters into,
you know, some little room in city hall. And the mayor came in and held like an impromptu
news conference and talked about it. That was a lot of fun.
JS
(
30:42
): So did A.P. have an internship program?
GM
(
30:45
): In those days not really.
JS
(
30:45
): No.
GM
(
30:45
): It was, Bob knew people and would get us in the door.
JS
(
30:49
): Wow, wow.
GM
(
30:50
): And we would spend all that time. So anyway, that was my introduction. So then
when it came time to graduate, I mean, I had these two very good internships. And, again, in
terms of comparison, I did not know how valuable they were. But I learned quickly, you know, I
sent out my, applications and different things upon graduation. And, my wife got actually hired
by, she's, she was the star. She got hired by A.P. right after we graduated <laugh>. We weren't
married yet. So, Kathleen Norton, right. So she was hired by The A.P., she had been at A.P.


Gerry McNulty

26

JS
(
31:21
): Was she also at Marist?
GM
(
31:22
): Yep. A Marist student. She had been, an A.P. intern before me in the fall of senior
year. And then I went in spring of senior year. And, she was hired to be, a, what they call a relief
staffer. So she would rotate into different shifts in New York. And I was shopping around for
jobs and I got a call back from, one paper here in this region, the Middletown paper. And I
interviewed with them, but did not get the position. And then I was called by their, at that time,
they had a sister daily newspaper in Port Jervis called the Port Jervis Union Gazette. So it was a
small community daily, but it was a daily, they printed, six days a week, Monday through
Saturday. So it was a very small paper, but I drove out into the country there to Port Jervis. And
pretty much the guy hired me on the spot and told me, he said, "These, this thing you did with
The Associated Press is, I don't think I've ever seen a college graduate do that." He said, you're
hired <laugh>. I said, okay, I'll be here next Monday. <laugh>.
GN
(
32:21
): When you wrote, when you did the internship at Associated Press, was any of it
published?
GM
(
32:26
): Oh yeah, sure.
GN
(
32:27
): Where was it published?
GM
(
32:28
): Sure. On the, well, on The A.P. Wire.
JS
(
32:30
): Wire.
GM
(
32:30
): So the Associated Press is the feeder Newswire that is purchased by subscription,
by newspapers, television stations, radio stations.


Gerry McNulty

27

GN
(
32:39
): Oh, so they think up their stories.
GM
(
32:39
): So their own, right. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
GN
(
32:41
): Yeah, I understand.
GM
(
32:41
): And again, I was a minor player. My wife, and also a classmate of mine before me,
Larry Striegel, who went on to have a thirty-five-year career in the news business, they went
before me.
GN
(
32:52
): I see.
GM
(
32:52
): So.
GN
(
32:53
): Alright. This is part two. I really came to talk to you about the whole business of
internships.
GM
(
33:02
): Oh, okay <laugh>.
GN
(
33:02
): I think this is something you are a master in. Yeah, you had some yourself, as you
described--
GM
(
33:08
): Uh-huh <affirmative>.
GN
(
33:09
): And then you ran a program here that I think deserves a book by itself.
GM
(
33:14
): <Laugh>.


Gerry McNulty

28

GN
(
33:14
): You know, the whole business of two hundred interns in New York City. Come on,
give me a break <laugh>. You know, how can you run something like that and make any sense
out of it? So, tell me--
GM
(
33:28
): Sure.
GN
(
33:29
): Tell me about interns. Because I have some questions following, and Jan has better
questions.
GM
(
33:35
): Sure. Sure. So I went off, you know, after graduation to, be a newspaper man. And
I did that. I mean, I was at this Port Jervis newspaper, I think four days when I got a call. I was at
home in my new apartment about seven o'clock, seven thirty at night when my boss called up
and said, oh, I got a story for you. I'm like, well, I just left work like an hour ago. It's you know,
seven fifteen on Friday night. He goes, "yeah, yeah, a plane crashed". Oh, okay, where? So that
was my introduction to this is the way it works. You go when you, when things happen. And so I
worked there for a year and then my fiance and I were going to try to find some jobs and go to a
different place. So, she got an offer from The A.P. to work in the Montpelier Bureau, and I went
with her, this was 1980. And I began to work part-time stringing for the Associated Press, and
then I got hired in that Associated Press Bureau to work side by side with her. And we worked
together with one other gentleman who was the head of the bureau for almost a year when the
New England Chief of Bureaus came to tell me that he just couldn't have a married couple
<laugh> in a three-person office because he was afraid something was going to happen <laugh>.
JS
(
34:46
): <laugh>


Gerry McNulty

29

GM
(
34:48
): So I had, in other words, I was on temporary and I did almost a year, and it was
time for me to be either kept or not. So I went off and got a job a few weeks later for the
Montpelier base newspaper, the Capital City Paper. And we both worked in Vermont for the next
three and a half, four years, both of our children were born in Vermont. And then Mimi
McAndrew, from our student days, called us up one day and said, why don't you guys come back
to Poughkeepsie? I can put you both to work. So my wife Kathleen was really very good friends
with Mimi, you know, through those college years. So we came back here to Poughkeepsie. So
in 1985, we went to work at the Poughkeepsie Journal, and Kathy went on the features desk to
write, and I joined the copy desk. And, I had stopped reporting because I had been promoted in
Montpelier to, actually to city editor. I had become the city editor of a of small but six, seven
person staff. I was twenty-six years old. And--
JS
(
35:52
): Wow.
GM
(
35:52
): Yeah. It was--
JS
(
35:52
): Intimidating.
GM
(
35:55
): It was intimidating, but it was also very exciting and it was very challenging, and I
learned a whole 'nother side of the, you know, the editorial production side of the business
beyond reporting. And so it was, and I was good visually, so I was good with layout, and pages,
and headline writing, and so that worked well for me. So anyway, so here I am in 1985, and
pretty much what's the first thing I see in the first month or so that I'm at the Poughkeepsie
Journal? Oh, interns. Interns are coming into the newsroom to work. Now, I'm a young guy. I've
been an intern just five or six years before.


Gerry McNulty

30

GN
(
36:31
): Yeah.
GM
(
36:31
): And I see how they're sitting in the corner, and being ignored, and this editor
doesn't want to talk to them. And so I started talking to the interns, <laugh>, what are you doing?
I'll give you a job. Come with me. Come over here, <laugh>, lay out this page. Don't even know
how to do that. Let me show you this. And, sit here instead of sitting there staring out the
window. Because that is actually what would happen sometimes in places. The interns would be
accepted and then given a little bit to do, but not really integrated into things. So I became, what
a surprise, right? The de facto, send them over to McNulty, he'll deal with the interns <laugh>.
So I started giving the interns things to do, and I became the sort of backup intern coordinator.
So a few years went by and I got promoted in 1988 to Sunday editor, to produce the Sunday
edition specifically, and then the next year to city editor. So, now I was running the newsroom
operation. So now I was in a position to be in charge of the interns, so I was. So now I had
<laugh> set up a schedule for the interns, and I set up assignment projects and monitoring dates
and things for the interns. And, now I could make a system. So now I made it run.
GN
(
37:43
): Where did the interns come from?
GM
(
37:45
): They, came from Marist, New Paltz, and Vassar. Pretty much, yeah. So we went
pretty quickly from having one or two interns a semester to having five or six or seven. Because
I could take them and plug them into a system and put them to work, and keep them going. And
my bosses who doubted me at first quickly realized, holy crap. These interns are producing two,
three stories a week. This is not bad <laugh>. They're all doing a story a week each, if not more.
I said, yeah. And then think about how good they get after two months, they get good enough,
we can give them, yeah, two stories a week to do.


Gerry McNulty

31

GN
(
38:20
): But back here, coming to Marist now.
GM
(
38:22
): Right. So anyway, the years go by, right? And I get to, I go to Professor Norman's
retirement party in 1993 or '94, and I say to a couple of people, what are they going to do? What
are they going to do? Bob Norman's retiring. Nobody knew. Well, I don't know. We don't know
what we're going to do. So a year or two went by and I knew, because I was the contact person, I
knew that, you know, Marist had given one of the faculty members, Bill Davis, right? Given him
the duty part-time. So Bill was referring interns over, and I would talk to the interns and I
realized that they didn't quite know what they were doing. And so Bill was kind of a part-time
person. So at that time, 1994, '95, an interesting thing happened. There was a teacher here named
Bob Grossman, right?
GN
(
39:07
): Uh-huh <affirmative>.
GM
(
39:07
): Bob Grossman was a lawyer by training. He was working in the school of
management. Bob was a very, very intelligent person, very curious person. Bob walked into
Poughkeepsie Journal one day, didn't talk to me, but talked to one of my bosses, and wanted to
do what he was describing as an externship. [Alarm starts sounding] He wanted to work
temporarily in the newsroom to see what it was like. And that, could inform him for his
academic purposes. So how he talked them into this, I don't know, because, you know,
newsrooms are generally fairly insular, we don't like outsiders, we don't bring <laugh>, outsiders
are to be interviewed. And we don't bring them in the newsroom and show them our secrets. It's
kind of like, you know, it's a little magic box. We don't tell them. Anyway. But, Grossman talked
his way in. But then again, there was Grossman one day, just like the interns, he didn't know
what to do. He didn't know how anything worked. He didn't <laugh>. So I said to Grossman, you


Gerry McNulty

32

come with me, I'll show you how to write a news story. I'll show you how to do interviews, I'll
show you this. So Grossman, after two or three months--
JS
(
40:11
): I'm going to make sure that this is not, some kind of a--
GM
(
40:14
): Oh, is it a fire? Is it a fire alarm?
JS
(
40:16
): Yeah, something. Yeah. I mean, they're not evacuating.
GM
(
40:19
): You want to turn off that recorder or no?
[Recorder is turned off]

END OF PART 1