Interview with: Brother Frank Backus
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Lola-Dillon Cahill
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections









Br. Frank Backus

2


Interviewee:
Brother Frank Backus

Interviewers:
Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers
Interview Date:
31 October 2022
Location:
James A. Cannavino Library
Topic:
Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers interview former Marist Brother Frank Backus to find out
more about his life and share the stories he has revolving around his time at Marist.
Subject Headings:
Frank Backus
Marist College history

Marist College, Poughkeepsie, NY
Marist College at Esopus
Marist College at Tyngsboro
Summary:
In this interview, Gus Nolan and Jan Stivers discuss the life of Frank Backus before
he joined the Marist Brothers community, his time at Esopus, his experiences with other Marist
Brothers, and his career in local education after leaving the college. They also discuss where he
sees the college now and how he has the school to thank for many different aspects of his
character.




Br. Frank Backus

3


Gus Nolan
(
00:04
):
Today is Halloween. It's October 31st. We have an opportunity to introduce an old Marist friend,
a teacher here at the college for many years. And a former brother, and builder of Marist College
with his own hands, as many of us did. Frank Backus. Welcome Frank.
Frank Backus
(
00:27
):
Thank you.
GN
(
00:28
):
Frank, this really comes like in four different parts, kind of the early years, the Marist years, the
experiences of Marist, that is Marist College and then you're teaching in Marist. And then after
the review of what's it all been, looking back at it, and a review of it and so on. So, kind of a
four-part sequence. And it goes into the Marist College oral archives, of which there are more
than 150 now, I'll show you the list later of some of the outstanding candidates that you join in
giving us your time this afternoon to come here for this. I do the first part and some preliminary
questions, and then Jan comes along with more thoughtful questions <affirmative>. And then I
come back with some things questioning what she said and said, we go on for the about an hour,
I guess it will take. So to begin, Frank, let's, something about your early life. Where were you
born and brought up and childhood years, and say some things about it.
FB
(
01:42
):
Well, I was born in Astoria, Queens on Long Island. And at two years old, I was moved from my
parents to Belrose. I grew up in Belrose. And it was you know, residential, but there was some, a
lot of bad stuff going on. We had some gangs in the neighborhood already, and we had, we


Br. Frank Backus

4


actually had a murder in the neighborhood, in the gang war. And I, you know, I went to a
Catholic school. We were very much involved in the, in the parish. And, but the, the whole
neighborhood was not, you know, Catholic school kids, you know. So I--
GN
(
02:24
):
You're talking about Astoria here?
FB
(
02:26
):
No. This was Belrose.
GN
(
02:26
):
Belrose, oh.
FB
(
02:26
):
It was a nice area we were in, and I decided I had to be either all good or all bad, you know?
And, you know, that was part of my decision because I went to, I, as you saw, I went to a later
grade school, and I resisted the nuns all the way. I fought them all the way <laugh>, you know, I
just thought it was, you know, they just favored their girls and they had special, you know, pets
and everything else. And then when I got to the Marist--
GN
(
03:00
):
Oh, no. <Laugh>
FB
(
03:01
):
<laugh>. Then when I got to the Marist Brothers, it was just, you know, it was, you know, I
thrived. I really enjoyed being with them. And--


Br. Frank Backus

5


GN
(
03:10
):
Let's stop for one moment, the way you're talking, you like an only child but there's more in the
family than you.
FB
(
03:17
):
Yes. I'm the oldest of six.
GN
(
03:19
):
<laugh>. I'm glad you brought that up.
FB
(
03:22
):
I'm the oldest of six.
GN
(
03:24
):
That plays a part of one who is a part of eight.
FB
(
03:26
):
Yeah, and the other part of that, that information too, is on my mother's side of the family, my
mother had a brother and a sister. One was a priest, and the other was a nun. So, you know, this
was, you know, this logical in our family. On my father's side, he had a brother who was a priest.
<affirmative>. So, on both sides of our family, they were religious in the family. So, we were
intimately involved in the church. And I have, I had always thought, you know, from age,
probably twelve or thirteen, that the priesthood might be something for me, you know? And then
I ran into the Marist Brothers, and that changed everything, you know?
GN
(
04:13
):


Br. Frank Backus

6


Yeah. It's strange, you use the word flourished. She uses the word, something similar to it about-
Jan Stivers
(
04:21
):
Breath of fresh air.
GN
(
04:22
):
Moving from the, in one way you liked going to school now, or you found the classes--
FB
(
04:29
):
Well, I enjoyed high school.
GN
(
04:31
):
Oh, you did?
FB
(
04:31
):
I thoroughly enjoyed high school. Yeah. I did very well. I wasn't a good student in grade school,
only because I was resistant to everything. <affirmative> But once I got to the Marist brothers,
you know, they were just great.
GN
(
04:46
):
And what about the subject? Was it just science and math that you did well in? Or could you
read also?
FB
(
04:51
):
Oh no, I excelled. I just felt, I felt mathematics was so easy to me. You know if, I'm talking
about high school now. I'm not talking about graduate school mathematics. <affirmative>. It was


Br. Frank Backus

7


just so easy to me that, I, you know, if I made one mistake on a test, you know, that was a big
deal to me, you know? But in, physics I was always interested in, I was a very mechanical
minded person. <affirmative>. And I was always interested in physics, but Marist College didn't
have a physics degree. <affirmative>. You know, and we had Brian Desilets and, as you know
<laugh>.
GN
(
05:32
):
I was here <laugh>.
FB
(
05:33
):
He was just all the inspiration, you know?
GN
(
05:35
):
Yeah. The, move, who were your teachers in Mount in St. Mary's?
FB
(
05:45
):
Oh, my goodness. You're asking me to go way back eighty--
GN
(
05:49
):
But they gave you the basis to be able to build on.
FB
(
05:54
):
I don't, I don't think any of them that influenced me were around. I, you know, I can't even give
you names now.
GN
(
06:06
):


Br. Frank Backus

8


That's quite alright.
FB
(
06:07
):
You know, the amazing part is that some of these people are also buried in Esopus and I don't
recognize their names because we went from religious to family names.
GN
(
06:18
):
Yeah. Family names.
FB
(
06:18
):
<affirmative>. So on. So, it's very difficult for me to reconstruct the teachers that I had at St.
Mary's. <affirmative>.
GN
(
06:27
):
Now, besides school, what else did you do in high school? Sports ( ) and hobbies?
FB
(
06:34
):
I did not participate in sports in the high school itself, alright. I always played baseball. You
know, I played police athletic league and things like that, you know, in my neighborhood. I
always played baseball and softball. And then of course, when I went to Marist Prep, it was
hockey and it was touch football and all of those, you know, exciting things. We had something
like forty, fifty students at that time, and we always had intramurals.
GN
(
07:07
):
Yeah. Did you go to Esopus?


Br. Frank Backus

9


FB
(
07:09
):
I was in Esopus, yes.
GN
(
07:11
):
Okay. And when you were there, who was the master novice?
FB
(
07:15
):
Joseph Damian.
GN
(
07:17
):
Oh, Joe Damian
FB
(
07:17
):
Yeah. He was the master of, juniors.
GN
(
07:20
):
Yeah. He and his dog, <laugh>
FB
(
07:23
):
<Laugh> He didn't have a dog at that time. <affirmative>. No. Yeah. And that Luke Driscoll was
one of the, one of the teachers there. <affirmative>. And Joe, Joseph Albert. He was history.
GN
(
07:40
):
You got me now.
FB
(
07:43
):


Br. Frank Backus

10


I, yeah. Yeah. I may not have that name.
GN
(
07:46
):
Yeah, okay. George Robert was one of the guys in history, but outside of, I that, he could have
passed on.
FB
(
07:55
):
No, he wasn't there at that time.
GN
(
07:57
):
I almost believe that. Because I, it's Esopus and then Tyngsboro.
FB
(
08:02
):
Esopus to Tyngsboro, yeah.
GN
(
08:03
):
David in Kingston, who was the master novice? Not David Kammer?
FB
(
08:09
):
No, no, he was after.
GN
(
08:12
):
Driscoll?
FB
(
08:13
):
Pius.


Br. Frank Backus

11


GN
(
08:13
):
Oh, Pius.
FB
(
08:15
):
Pius. Pius Victor was his name.
GN
(
08:18
):
Pius. Yeah. He was, okay. Those years we don't like to talk too much about because they were
more penitential, it seems to me. I mean, I'm just reviewing your life and my life <affirmative>
and so many patterns the same. And we, you know, you lived by a strict rule, up at 5:30 every
morning. <affirmative>, you know, silence in meals, readings, and study hours, you know, a real
disciplined life. But then we move on. Jan, just say a few words. <laugh>.
JS
(
08:55
):
<Laugh> You loved being in high school with the Marist Brothers?
FB
(
08:59
):
Yes. Yeah.
JS
(
08:59
):
And that certainly influenced your decision to come to Esopus, to enter--
FB
(
09:02
):
That was a choice of vocation. Yes, yes.<affirmative>. I had other opportunities to be a secular
priest, you know. <affirmative>, things like that. But it was just, you know--


Br. Frank Backus

12


JS
(
09:14
):
To come out of that feeling...
FB
(
09:16
):
I've had this, I had the feeling when, you know, probably when I was thirteen, fourteen, that I
wanted to pursue that. <affirmative>. And this is just, the final, you know, niche.
JS
(
09:26
):
So, you had such a wonderful transition from grammar to high school, elementary school to high
school, because that was a better match.
FB
(
09:33
):
Yes.
JS
(
09:34
):
How was the match when you came to Esopus?
FB
(
09:36
):
Oh, it was beautiful. I mean, yeah.
JS
(
09:38
):
Tell us about that.
FB
(
09:40
):
Well, the whole thing is that you were living with all the kids that you played sports with and
everything else, and you had a structure. And there was a discipline, study discipline and things


Br. Frank Backus

13


like that. And I just accelerated from there, you know, in terms of, I saw the need to study all of a
sudden, you know? <affirmative>. And that was, the motivating, you know?
JS
(
10:07
):
<affirmative>. So, you were really challenged academically, cognitively.
FB
(
10:09
):
I was challenged. Oh, yeah. We were always challenged academically. I've never been a super
bright person. I've always been a hard worker. <affirmative>. You know, so I am not in that
category where things, you know, just came easy. I always had to work for everything I got.
JS
(
10:25
):
True. However, people don't get master's degrees in physics. <laugh> paid for by the NSF
<laugh> without some natural talents.
FB
(
10:32
):
<Laugh> Yeah. There is some. Yeah.
JS
(
10:34
):
So, I've heard the sense of community, the sense of--
FB
(
10:41
):
Oh yes. Yeah.
JS
(
10:41
):
I've heard discipline.


Br. Frank Backus

14


FB
(
10:43
):
Yes.
JS
(
10:44
):
I've heard focus and purpose and hard work.
FB
(
10:46
):
Yes.
JS
(
10:48
):
You had an incredibly varied career. Would you attribute the success that you had in your career,
even after you left the Marist Brothers, to the formation that you had as a brother?
FB
(
11:00
):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
JS
(
11:02
):
You want to talk about that?
FB
(
11:03
):
There's no doubt about it. And I mentioned this to you on the phone the other day. I got in, I got
to Esopus, and I was very interested in hockey and Brother John Berkman--
GN
(
11:14
):
Oh, yes. <Affirmative>.


Br. Frank Backus

15


FB
(
11:15
):
Alright. Burke, says to me, we need new hockey nets. Here's, the old nets I want, and here's the
wood, and here's the screening that you need. Build it. <Affirmative>. You know, he just says
that. And here's a saw and a hammer, <laugh>, you know, so, you know, I'm like seventeen years
old, and this brother is giving me the commission to build new hockey nets for us, you know,
and it was just. Hey, I've never had anybody, you know--
JS
(
11:44
):
Trust you--
FB
(
11:45
):
Trust me like that. So, I mean, it was just, it was just this trust. It was that, from the very
beginning, it was a "can do" attitude you had. And that was, and--
GN
(
11:56
):
Strange you used that word. I'll come back to it but go ahead <laugh>.
JS
(
11:58
):
Well, go with it now.
GN
(
12:00
):
Well, that "can do" I mean, it carries on. You come into the scholasticate--
FB
(
12:06
):
It does.


Br. Frank Backus

16


GN
(
12:08
):
It's the whole, it's not, there's a, step back a little bit about Esopus and the Marist Brothers, and
the novitiate, there's a certain bonding that goes on that lasts forever. I mean.
FB
(
12:21
):
I say that--
GN
(
12:22
):
Tom O'Connor passed away, seventy years I knew him. You know?
FB
(
12:25
):
Yeah.
GN
(
12:25
):
This kind of relationship that is built on true concern for one another and helping one another.
FB
(
12:32
):
Yes. It, yes it is.
GN
(
12:33
):
It wasn't competing to get better than him. It's kind of a working with him. <affirmative>. And
he with you to make the things better.
FB
(
12:40
):
Yeah.


Br. Frank Backus

17


GN
(
12:40
):
Go ahead.
JS
(
12:42
):
Go ahead.
FB
(
12:43
):
And here's the beauty of the Marist Brothers. Marist Brothers never discharged you when you
left the order, they never said goodbye. They, we always were together, you know? I mean, we
had meetings of all the ex-brothers and some of the brothers in those classes attended those
meetings.
GN
(
13:05
):
Oh, yeah.
FB
(
13:06
):
You know, all the time. So, in other religious orders, you are kind of ostracized when you left.
Marist Brothers accepted you, Linus Foy was still president. A lot of the teachers, brothers that
left were still at the college. A lot of the brothers out in the classrooms that left were still
teaching in that very high school. You know?
GN
(
13:28
):
I had guys, Kinsella and--
FB
(
13:29
):


Br. Frank Backus

18


It was beautiful. I mean, it was the Marist spirit that, that was really awesome.
JS
(
13:36
):
It says something about how genuine that spirit of community was.
FB
(
13:39
):
Yes. It was. Yes, it was. And, and I believe that the Marist Brothers and the Marist College have
benefited by all those ex-brothers.
JS
(
13:49
):
Oh, for sure.
FB
(
13:49
):
You know, over the years, you know.
JS
(
13:50
):
Andy Molloy.
FB
(
13:52
):
Well, sure. Yes.
JS
(
13:53
):
Gus Nolan. And you, you came back to teach as a member of the part-time math faculty. So
when I was reading what you had written, I saw that, while you're here as a part-time faculty
member in math, you're also for part of that, you're teaching at Highland High School during the
day. <affirmative>. And then another, the later part of it, you're an engineer at IBM.


Br. Frank Backus

19


FB
(
14:16
):
Right.
JS
(
14:16
):
So, talk to us about juggling all those different roles.
FB
(
14:19
):
Yes. The interesting thing about that too, is I was teaching calculus in Marist College, and I was
teaching a calculus class in Highland. Marist College allowed me to teach that course, and the
kids get Marist College credit for it.
JS
(
14:41
):
Wow. Yeah. That's the beginning of the bridge program.
FB
(
14:43
):
Yeah. Yeah. So, and all of the kids that I had in calculus got Marist College credit, because I was
teaching the same course here as I was across the river. <affirmative>. So, I mean--
GN
(
14:57
):
I like you putting it that way--
JS
(
14:58
):
Highland has not been a place that has done AP classes. They have not been.
FB
(
15:02
):
No. But when I was there, we taught--


Br. Frank Backus

20


JS
(
15:04
):
So, you gave them that.
FB
(
15:05
):
I taught calculus. I also taught a course in linear algebra and algebraic structures. They were two,
and I taught linear algebra here, too. So I taught two semesters, you know, half year courses in
algebraic structures and also in linear algebra. They didn't get college credit for it, but that's what
we had when I was there at the college.
GN
(
15:31
):
Okay. We skipped a phase here. I want to go back to the scholasticate.
FB
(
15:36
):
Okay.
GN
(
15:36
):
And an expression called keys.
FB
(
15:38
):
Yeah. Did you, did you ever use that?
GN
(
15:41
):
<Laugh> Oh Yeah. I was in charge of the waxing machine <laugh>. And so, I got floated around
to all the buildings to do the waxing. Because if you didn't work it right, I mean, I had to learn
how to do it, but no one else could do it.


Br. Frank Backus

21


FB
(
15:53
):
It could go, take right off. Yeah.
GN
(
15:55
):
And take you off into space, you know, <laugh>. So, tell me about your keys, because I
remember I was teaching at Esopus and I had the laundry run every Monday morning, I think it
was. I came over with a truck full of laundry, and often times the truck had a problem. And so,
"where is Frank Backus or Pete Backus?" or whatever his name was to fix our truck, you know.
So where did you learn mechanics?
FB
(
16:25
):
Here. <affirmative>.
JS
(
16:29
):
How? Is there a senior...?
FB
(
16:31
):
It was amazing. Yeah. Well, first of all when I was in novitiate, I did drive some of the tractors
and things like that. Didn't have a license to go on road, but, I had, always had an interest in this.
So, I got here and we had to pick a key. So, I picked mechanics. Now, we had a senior brother
student, and a junior brother student. and maybe two or three from each class. And I was the
apprentice. I came in and I learned how to, you know, take transmissions out, put clutches in,
change breaks, and we actually took two motors out. I put an axle in a crane over in Donnelly
building, you know. <affirmative>. And as my, as a senior year thing. <affirmative>. But we


Br. Frank Backus

22


learned, and the beauty of it was, we had support from the community around Marist College.
Alright. There was a guy by the name of, I think it, his name was Bill Tyson. Tyson's Garage.
GN
(
17:43
):
Yeah. Tyson's Garage.
FB
(
17:44
):
Tyson's Garage, right over here. He says, brothers, you can take anything apart, if you don't
know how to put it back together again, call me. You know, that was the attitude. So, we were
over at Tyson's Garage all the time. Does this need replacement or should I, should we buy a
new one or buy a rebuilt one? You know, things like that. He was kind of an advisor, a mentor to
us, but most of the time, we learned from the guys who were two years ahead of us.
<affirmative>. And of course, when I got to the top, there was guys below me that learned the
ropes.
GN
(
18:18
):
Yeah. And the "can do", again, is Nilus. And the "can do", we will build a building. We will put
up Donnelly, we will put up the gym. Before him was Frank Xavier. But--
FB
(
18:30
):
That's right. Marian Hall. Yeah. He built Marian Hall.
GN
(
18:35
):
And the gym.
FB
(
18:36
):


Br. Frank Backus

23


That's right that was the old gym, it was converted.
GN
(
18:38
):
And, so that kind of, spirit, I mean, without really any education. Not only that, but he had
workers who were willing to do it, but didn't know anything about it. I mean, you know, we had
no training as how to lay a block or how to <affirmative>. Well, we didn't do too much. We just
carried the block to the place where someone else was going to put it down. <affirmative>. Yeah.
And that's, that kind of spirit that when you were writing this thing that just came back to me, so-
FB
(
19:09
):
Yeah, it did. It was the whole,
GN
(
19:10
):
Yeah. That was,
FB
(
19:12
):
It was a whole environment that, when I graduated, it was gone, basically.
GN
(
19:18
):
Yeah. Well, it washed out. Yeah.
FB
(
19:20
):
Yeah. And, Andy Molloy came in, the year I left, Andy Malloy came here. And what did he do
first? He built dormitory rooms in Donnelley Hall for the students that were coming in.
GN
(
19:36
):


Br. Frank Backus

24


Yeah.
FB
(
19:37
):
He built them all, you know.
JS
(
19:40
):
Shortly before he died, he rebuilt--
GN
(
19:44
):
The chemistry lab.
JS
(
19:45
):
The chemistry lab.
FB
(
19:46
):
That's, that's right. Yeah. Right.
GN
(
19:47
):
Yeah. And that's after he had been, well, he went away. Then he came back as an academic--
FB
(
19:56
):
Yes, Vice President.
GN
(
19:57
):
Yeah. For a while. And then he stayed on again, and, you know, doing more things.
JS
(
20:05
):


Br. Frank Backus

25


Well, I can ask a follow up question about the change. So, you talked about how keys sort of
evaporated. So, you've been connected to Marist for sixty years?
FB
(
20:18
):
Since 1953.
JS
(
20:21
):
So, more than sixty years. <laugh>
FB
(
20:24
):
<Laugh> So, I came in.
JS
(
20:26
):
So almost seventy years.
FB
(
20:27
):
No, yeah. 1953. I joined the Marist Brothers in Esopus.
GN
(
20:34
):
Okay.
JS
(
20:34
):
So, this may be an impossible question, but how would you characterize the change that you've
seen in that time?
FB
(
20:42
):


Br. Frank Backus

26


Well, the change that I've seen in that time, in terms of the brothers alright, is the numbers. You
know, we don't have the numbers we had, because we had, I think Gus, we had about a hundred
students here at the college. <affirmative>. In the three years. <affirmative>. In the three years.
So that means there were thirty, thirty-five, maybe thirty-five in a class.
GN
(
21:10
):
I only had eighteen in my graduating class, but then there's like forty-five in the one behind us.
<affirmative>, you know, they came out of Tyngsboro and they had the two houses. We had two
juniorates and two novitiates. And eventually we brought them all together in Esopus, there used
to be, well, seventy-two places in Esopus that which only, <affirmative> that would be two years
of people there. So that gives, those numbers just don't exist now. And I was just thinking on that
level, the more scholastics now, the young guys, there's two of them. And they're down in
someplace in the Bronx, and in the novitiate or scholasticate. It's not the same.
FB
(
21:57
):
No.
GN
(
21:58
):
It's an entirely different world.
FB
(
22:00
):
But I mean, the world's not the same.
GN
(
22:01
):
Yeah.


Br. Frank Backus

27


FB
(
22:02
):
I mean, it's all--
GN
(
22:04
):
And they're a little older you know.
JS
(
22:05
):
It also seems, we can look to a time when Marist College will not have a Marist brother.
GN
(
22:12
):
A Marist brother. It's not that far off.
JS
(
22:14
):
Brother Frank is seventy.
GN
(
22:17
):
There's I think four of them here now. And they're most in the ministry, you know. And so--
JS
(
22:24
):
So how do you think the college can keep the mission and the values of the Marist Brothers alive
when we no longer have Marist Brothers as part of the staff?
FB
(
22:38
):
That's a very good question. And I think it has to do with the choice of the president.
GN
(
22:46
):


Br. Frank Backus

28


Yeah.
FB
(
22:46
):
Okay. You need a president that manifests that Champagnat spirit. You know. Is it difficult to
find? Yes.
JS
(
22:56
):
I think they found one.
GN
(
22:56
):
They found one.
FB
(
22:57
):
I think we found one. Yes. We didn't have one before this, though.
JS
(
23:02
):
No, we didn't.
FB
(
23:03
):
No. So, that was very disconcerting, you know, at that point. <affirmative>.
GN
(
23:09
):
We didn't have one for like two years, but we had for forty years.
JS
(
23:13
):
Yes. Right. We should be clear. We're not talking about Dennis Murray, who--


Br. Frank Backus

29


FB
(
23:17
):
Oh no. Oh, no. I mean, he was the epitome of what we could ever have expected. You know, to
keep the Marist tradition.
JS
(
23:25
):
He was a builder in the tradition that Marcellin was built.
FB
(
23:26
):
It was just, it was perfect. It was perfect. Loved the man. Yeah. <affirmative>. The--
GN
(
23:36
):
One other thing, back to Andy Molloy and, tell us about Science on the Road--or Science on the
Move.
JS
(
23:44
):
Science on the Move.
FB
(
23:45
):
Oh, yeah. One thing I wanted to bring out, there was a department chair, Mike Tenenbaum. Do
you remember Mike Tenenbaum?
JS
(
23:54
):
Yes.
GN
(
23:54
):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>.


Br. Frank Backus

30


FB
(
23:54
):
Mike Tenenbaum came in when we had started Science on the Move. And Mike Tenenbaum
picked our brains. He picked LaPietra's brain, he picked my brain. He wanted to find out
everything he could about the spirit of the college. <affirmative>. It was very, very impressive.
JS
(
24:17
):
Yeah.
GN
(
24:17
):
Yeah.
New Speaker (
24:17
):
You know, he just went, of course Andy was there, you know, and so he picked the three of our
brains and wanted to find out the spirit, what drove the college and everything else. It was really
very impressive that this man came in.
JS
(
24:30
):
And where did he go? He went to Academic Vice President?
FB
(
24:34
):
Yeah. He was an Academic Vice President somewhere in Genesee. Upstate New York, up in that
area.
JS
(
24:41
):
Yeah, somewhere in that area, Hobart and William Smith. It wouldn't have been that would it?


Br. Frank Backus

31


FB
(
24:41
):
I don't know. I don't think it was Paul Smith, no.
JS
(
24:43
):
No? No, Hobart and William Smith.
FB
(
24:45
):
Oh, Hobart--it could've been, it could have been Hobart.
JS
(
24:47
):
Yeah. Maybe.
FB
(
24:49
):
Yeah.
JS
(
24:49
):
He was a good man, right?
FB
(
24:50
):
Yeah. He was a good man. We lost him.
JS
(
24:52
):
Yeah.
GN
(
24:53
):


Br. Frank Backus

32


Another general question that has bothered me for some time, and you can address the same way,
when you were in the scholasticate in the colleges, taking college courses, and so on, you didn't
have very many doctors, doctorate teachers. I think there were maybe two there at the time. And,
I often wondered, in your various experiences in teaching in high school and IBM and back in,
you know, do you feel you got as good an education as you would've gotten if you went to
Harvard or Yale or one of the--Notre Dame? You know?
FB
(
25:35
):
Yeah. I have nothing to compare that to. All I know is that anybody that graduated here--from
here--succeeded. You know, and I don't know anybody that you know, that really didn't continue
their academic pursuit.
GN
(
25:54
):
Do you feel challenged by other people as <laugh> they can do it better than I can, or I can do it
as good as they, I mean, you felt confident in high school, you felt confident in, well, the other
places you might have gone where there were other teachers coming from other backgrounds.
See because, somehow or other I was--it was stamped on me that Marist didn't quite have the
same quality teachers, you know? And I just didn't know how to do that.
FB
(
26:28
):
I heard that, from older teachers--Brothers--that when they went to a university, their attitude
was, oh, you graduated from Marist College. It wasn't--they had experienced some kind of that
prejudice. Now, what we're talking about, this is well before 1960.
GN
(
26:48
):


Br. Frank Backus

33


Oh, yeah <Affirmative>.
FB
(
26:49
):
Well before 1960. They, when they went to graduate school, there was some, you know,
comments that some of the brothers had experienced, that "oh, you went to Marist College, and
that's a small little place up there for Brothers", you know? <affirmative>. That was--
JS
(
27:07
):
That prejudice persisted. When I got my job here, when I was hired here in 1985, I would go to
professional conferences and say where I was from. And more than once, more than three times,
I got a response something like, "oh, well that's a good school for kids who weren't very good
students".
FB
(
27:27
):
Really, yeah right. <Affirmative>.
JS
(
27:28
):
And that was the general--not that the teachers are lousy, but that, you know. The student body
wasn't particularly strong. Now that was '85.
FB
(
27:37
):
Well, that just shows you to the growth, the phenomenal growth of the college. <affirmative>.
You know, from that attitude. And this is the place to be now, you know? <affirmative>.
JS
(
27:47
):
So that is one of my questions for you. You are very close with your grandson, Brendan.


Br. Frank Backus

34


FB
(
27:52
):
Yes. <Affirmative>.
JS
(
27:53
):
Would you encourage Brendan to come to Marist?
FB
(
27:55
):
Yes. Yes.
JS
(
27:56
):
Why would that be a good choice for him?
FB
(
27:59
):
Well, they, I have never met a kid that graduated from here who didn't love this place.
JS
(
28:07
):
I would have to agree.
FB
(
28:08
):
You know? I have a grand-nephew here now, I told you that, you know, and he's on the track
team here and got a partial scholarship for track, alright. When he was a junior, a senior, he had a
track meet here in Bowden Park. And my niece came up with him. His mother came up and I
said, I want, you know, you're looking for colleges. I want to drive through Marist. We drove
through Marist, showed him all residences across the street, showed him, you know, all the
facilities and everything else, just drive through. And he says, "I want to talk to their coach". Just


Br. Frank Backus

35


like that. "I want to talk to the coach". You know, he just saw the place and, really wanted to see
if he could get into it. And he's from New Jersey. You know, so New Jersey,
GN
(
29:07
):
I've had kids come on and say "I could live here?" You know, in other words, the scene and the
whole thing of it, you know, was kind of a great--what an experience. I mean, you go to Iona or
you go to Vassar <affirmative>, they have nice buildings. You know, a bit crowded and pushed
together. And, Iona is a disgrace. I mean, maybe it's better now, but I was there, you know, for
conferences and so on and the buildings, they were, Dennis Murray would've taken them all
down and started all over <laugh>. You know?
JS
(
29:42
):
And they graduate from here and, after this environment for four years, and they go to a fifth-
floor walk-up in the Bronx. <laugh>. It's a tough transition.
FB
(
29:52
):
I have to tell you another story. We moved to Highland about three years ago, and my next-door
neighbor has three girls. And they're teenagers now. They're Jordanians, they're Jordanian
Christians. They're--the woman's father had to escape from Jordan because of persecution. These
kids, three great kids. The girl has now had, received, the oldest girl has received a presidential
scholarship to Marist College. She also received a much bigger scholarship to Pace University.
Alright. And she took Marist College. Oh yeah. Just because of what she knew about Marist
College. She wanted to come here. So, she's a freshman here now. Wow. Just some great, great
kids.


Br. Frank Backus

36


JS
(
30:47
):
What would your hope be for Marist College in the future?
FB
(
30:53
):
One hope I, you know, one thing that I thought, and I don't know what this is now, there was
supposed to be a medical school starting up. Yeah. That's canned, I hope, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. I
didn't hear it.
JS
(
31:05
):
I don't think there's been an announcement, but--
FB
(
31:07
):
<laugh>. No, no. I just thought that was way out. That was way beyond what we should be doing
here. Yeah. And--
GN
(
31:15
):
But nevertheless, I mean, we do get a doctorate in physical therapy, you know?
FB
(
31:20
):
Yes, yes. I knew that. I knew that.
GN
(
31:24
):
There's a nursing school. I mean, there's a, what do you call it--there's a med tech.
JS
(
31:29
):
Medical Technology, and also Physician's Assistant.


Br. Frank Backus

37


FB
(
31:33
):
Yes. Yeah. The, so I don't know how to handle this, but when I was a mobile teaching associate
for the Science on the Move, there was a discussion about making it called Marist University. I
don't know if you know, you were probably intimately involved in that. And Andy Molloy said, I
want this to be the best college we have. I don't want it to be a mediocre university. You know?
And so, you could still call us a college and have a few graduate degrees and doctorates in it.
GN
(
32:14
):
Yeah. We can see, a key point there is the word college, on European scene, is a high school.
FB
(
32:21
):
Ah, yes. Yes.
JS
(
32:23
):
And we do offer a doctoral program.
GN
(
32:26
):
We've dropped the word college on most of the buildings here. And when they're, watch with the
stationary, it just says Marist. You know, this is what you're going to get. <affirmative>. You're
not going to get Marist College.
FB
(
32:36
):
Marist College.
GN
(
32:37
):


Br. Frank Backus

38


Because again, by going back to the bigger question, how can we survive? Actually, we are
doing fine in foreign recruits. You know, we're having Chinese and Japanese and Europeans,
coming here. And Africans, various countries there, that, you know, they've heard about it and
they can make it and they're doing okay. But the word college can't be on their diploma because
that would just seem to imply you only went--
FB
(
33:09
):
To high school.
GN
(
33:10
):
Marist College in Dublin is a high school.
FB
(
33:11
):
Yeah. All right, right. So, yes. So, I didn't look at that concept at all.
JS
(
33:18
):
Well, I think that back in the nineties when we talked about it, because we had so many master's
degree programs, it was actually a marketing decision. They wanted to keep the identity as a
college, a college community, so. And now it's a different marketing decision. I see one question
on your sheet that is similar to one on mine, and that's about your teaching experiences. Wouldn't
want to end without you talking to us about your life as a teacher. You began and you ended your
career as a teacher.
FB
(
33:51
):


Br. Frank Backus

39


Yes, I did. I joined the Marist Brothers to help kids. I mean, that was, you know, that was my
goal. because I had, you know, I had gone through growing up through teenage years and I
wanted to help kids go through the teenage years. So, I always thrived as a teacher. I don't, you
know, I don't like to brag about this, but the, I started teaching at Archbishop Molloy High
School, and there's a scholarship in my name, a hundred-thousand-dollar scholarship in my name
at Archbishop Molloy High School for my years teaching there.
JS
(
34:33
):
How come your wife never told me about this?
FB
(
34:36
):
Because I don't talk about it.
JS
(
34:39
):
That's, that's tremendous. It's just a tremendous accolade, Frank.
FB
(
34:44
):
Yeah. Some people know it, many people don't. But, you know, talk about teaching. And what
this was, is a very famous doctor, he was my lab assistant. I started teaching advanced placement
physics at Molloy. Okay. And I asked to have somebody as a lab assistant, to help set me up, the
labs and everything else. And I got this, this kid, Alfred Sanfilippo, his mother was German, his
father was Italian, you know, immigrants. And, he was just, a great kid. And we worked
together, I, and he went on to the University of Pennsylvania, got a master's--a bachelor's degree
in physics--a master's degree in physics. And then he got a doctorate in medicine.


Br. Frank Backus

40


GN
(
35:47
):
Oh, wow.
FB
(
35:47
):
Okay. And he's got two doctorates in medicine. He has been, when he was a student, he had done
two National Science Foundation grants as students. And then he, said this--I'm graduating now
and I have an aunt that lives in Göttingen, Germany. And I am going to write the Max Planck
Institute in Göttingen, Germany to see if I can work as a lab assistant over in Göttingen,
Germany as soon as I graduate from college--high school rather. And all of a sudden, this guy by
the name of Dr. Hendrick Mattea, who's the director of the lab, says, I'm coming over here to
present a paper in Cold Spring Harbor on genetics. Alright. He says, I'd love to meet the family.
Well, he came, I went out to dinner with him, with the family, and everything else. And all of a
sudden, he's working in Göttingen, Germany. This is an eighteen-year-old living with his aunt,
and he's doing research.
JS
(
36:49
):
At the Max Planck Institute.
FB
(
36:52
):
And that's the last time I see this kid. So, I'm moving--this is 2019--I'm moving and I find
pictures of him and myself, working in the lab. And it was put in the newspaper, it was sent to
the Catholic paper at the local Long Island Press at that time. And I said, I know this kid's
famous. You know, I just knew he was--
JS
(
37:21
):


Br. Frank Backus

41


That he was going to go somewhere.
FB
(
37:22
):
So, I started looking up and John Hopkins University had him as a professor in medicine, but he
was no longer there and they couldn't tell me where he was. Alright. So, Emory University, I find
out that, his name at Emory University, and I call them, and they don't have anything on him in
the university, but I look up some addresses in Atlanta, and I find an Alfred Sanfillipo, or Fred
Sanfillipo. So, I put a--I call him, I said, if you were Alfred Sanfillipo from Archbishop Molloy
in 1964 <laugh>, you know, give me a call. And sure enough, he calls, he says, you must be
Brother Peter Francis. And then he's talking and he's, talking on conversation, we carried on a
conversation, and he's talking to me and says, do you have any contact with Archbishop Molloy?
I said, well, the only contact I have is I contribute to their fundraiser every year. He says, well,
two years ago, I set up a scholarship in your name.
GN
(
38:36
):
Oh, wow.
JS
(
38:37
):
And they never told you?
FB
(
38:38
):
Never told me. They never told me.
JS
(
38:43
):
Humility is real big with the Marist Brothers. <laugh>.


Br. Frank Backus

42


FB
(
38:45
):
Yeah. They never told me. And it took me almost a year of correspondence with them to
recognize, because I was talking to the director of their alumni association. I called him two or
three times to introduce myself. I said, I just want to let you know that I'm alive and well, and
everything else, never got a call. So finally, I called the president and everything changed.
Everybody found out who I was. So, yeah <laugh>. But the thing is, I mean, a hundred-
thousand-dollar endowment, you know, perpetual scholarship in my name. It's a big deal.
JS
(
39:26
):
It absolutely is.
FB
(
39:26
):
You want to know how I enjoyed teaching at Molloy? I loved it! And then, after six years they
needed somebody in the juniorate, and that's how I moved up, was teaching religion and
mathematics at the juniorate. And that's how, Gus--
JS
(
39:47
):
Here in Esopus?
FB
(
39:49
):
Well, one was--first it was in Cold Spring, and then we decided that we were going to close the
juniorate permanently. But we had a group of seniors that we did not want to send back out.
JS
(
40:01
):
Right.


Br. Frank Backus

43


FB
(
40:01
):
You know, so we brought them up to Esopus. And that's where you and I Gus, you and I were
together. Yeah.
GN
(
40:08
):
Yeah. Was Larry Sullivan overseeing?
FB
(
40:11
):
Yes. Larry Sullivan. Larry Sullivan was the master of Juniors at that time. Now he didn't come
up, I don't think Larry came up with us.
GN
(
40:21
):
No, we didn't let him come to Esopus. He was unqualified <laugh>.
FB
(
40:23
):
So, I became the titular principal of Marist Prep. I was the last official principal of Marist Prep--
GN
(
40:33
):
To sign the regents.
FB
(
40:33
):
To sign
t
he diplomas and certify their regent certificates. Yeah, but it had nothing else to do, you
know, with administration at all, except I, in the eyes of the state, I was the last principal of
Marist Prep. And that adds to the interesting story of me doing--I was doing a lot of work in
Kingston with kids. I was working with the Redemptorist. We had an adult education program


Br. Frank Backus

44


up in Esopus, you know, up in Kingston with the, some of the scholars that were still teaching
theology at Mount St. Alphonsus. And, I decided that I would ask the provincial if I could still
do that kind work and teach in a public school locally. And so, I checked with Lourdes, I
checked, with Coleman, you know, and I said, Marist Brothers told me, she says, there's no
money there, <laugh>. I know. So, I happened to call up Highland High School, and I got the
secretary. I said, do you have any need for teachers? This was in middle of the summer. And, she
says, well, teacher, the secretary says, well, what do you teach? I said, math and physics. There
was dead silence on the phone. And about two minutes later she goes back and says, how fast
can you get here? <laugh>
FB
(
42:11
):
And so, there I was, I was a Marist Brother.
JS
(
42:16
):
Did you teach in your habit?
FB
(
42:18
):
No. Oh, no. And I did not have Brother as a name. But I left Peter as my name for, you know,
payments, you know, my stuff. So, I just handed my salary over to the community. And all I got
out of it was a car. You know, I had to buy a car.
GN
(
42:40
):
Yeah. Well, you need to get around. Yeah. That's part of the deal.
FB
(
42:41
):


Br. Frank Backus

45


Right. So I played, as a brother, I played in the soft--fast softball pitch league and, everything
else in town. It was, it was just great.
GN
(
42:52
):
I hate to ask this question, but just to be totally honest, what is one of your disappointments?
FB
(
43:00
):
What is one of my disappointments?
GN
(
43:02
):
In this Marist tradition?
FB
(
43:05
):
In Marist?
GN
(
43:06
):
Yeah. I mean, is there something, it didn't go the way you wished it would or something that--in
other words, everything seems to be so glorious and wonderful, but life is not that way. You
know, we do have setbacks.
FB
(
43:23
):
Yes.
GN
(
43:24
):
I can hardly walk now, you know, and so, in a larger frame, theoretically, I say, oh, well I wish
we never had Gregorian chant <laugh>, you know what I mean?


Br. Frank Backus

46


JS
(
43:38
):
Or missed opportunities?
FB
(
43:39
):
Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't have, you know, I guess maybe the year or two that I was at, you know,
in Esopus, I didn't have the commonality of the community. Alright, that wasn't a reason for me
leaving, by the way. But I did not have, you know [pause] everybody's mission was different.
You guys were working with the novices and the postulants. And I was outside, and I didn't
have, you know, the commonality with the mission, you know, but, you know, this is something
that the Marist Brothers have adapted to over the years, because they live in community and
they're all doing different things.
GN
(
44:32
):
Yes, yes. Absolutely. Things have changed dramatically.
FB
(
44:37
):
The structure at that time didn't allow, you know, for that, different missions in one community
<affirmative>. Right. So that may have been something, but, you know, that had nothing--my
dissatisfaction with the Marist Brothers or disappointment with the Marist brothers had no
nothing--it was not any reason that I left. If that's what you're asking. <affirmative>.
GN
(
45:01
):
Well, no, I mean, I left also, but it's not for, it was for, in terms of having a two and, you know,
new role of the church and holiness and what that really meant. Charity and love for one another,
not so much personal sanctity, you know? So, there was a kind of a time of different switch as to


Br. Frank Backus

47


where the focus would be. And I remember having a discussion on Eden Terrace with the
brothers there. Hugh Turley in particular was saying, well he was thirty, I was forty. He says,
well, we are living in community, and we had the greatest social hour ever. I mean, we had
cocktail hours at 5:30, and we had, you know, and so I said, this is not so bad. But now, if there
was a woman in my life, and we, so the Hugh says, oh, well we have ten years to work this out,
<laugh>. I said Hugh, I'm forty. I don't have ten years to work this out. Yeah. I have to make a
decision about where things are going now, and where we'll be ten years from now.
FB
(
46:03
):
Well, that's part of it too. Yeah. So, I didn't know where the future, you know, was for me.
However, I would do this whole same thing over again.
GN
(
46:17
):
I would not change a thing. Yeah, absolutely. Right. I mean, I'm just so grateful for Marist
picking me up because I was not, you know, without them I could be someplace in Harlem now
or something making a go of it somehow or other. Well, I'd be dead. Let me put it that way too.
It's been a good wholesome life.
FB
(
46:40
):
Yes, it has. And the thing is, I never left the church. You know, for me that was, I've never left
the church. You know, even through the divorce, my first divorce, I got an annulment and, you
know, so I never left the church. And that, you know, right now, some of these decisions that the
hierarchy are making, I have a problem with, you know?
GN
(
47:07
):


Br. Frank Backus

48


Oh, let's not go there. <laugh>.
FB
(
47:09
):
Yeah <laugh>.
JS
(
47:12
):
Let, let's not go there. But, we can point to other interviews that Gus and I have done in the past
year with people who were not Marist Brothers--faculty members, women <affirmative>--who
say very much the same thing. I am who I am because of this institution.
FB
(
47:28
):
Because of what--yes. Yes, absolutely.
JS
(
47:30
):
And when we ask, well, what does Marist mean to you? And Annamaria Maciocia says,
everything. I am the person I am because of my colleagues, because of the mission, because of
the sense of purpose.
FB
(
47:42
):
This is very true.
JS
(
47:44
):
Yeah. The shared--
GN
(
47:44
):


Br. Frank Backus

49


A word we use is what is the glue that steps in here anyway? What is the glue that kept you in
the involvement, you know for sixty-seven years or whatever it is?
FB
(
47:57
):
Oh, it's the community that we developed.
JS
(
48:01
):
Everybody says the same thing <laugh>.
FB
(
48:02
):
It's the community that, you know, it's the Marist community. It's that alumni group. You know,
do it all together. You know, every person I know has favorite friends from college. Well, we
had tons of friends from college, you know. And we had, everybody we knew had graduated--
you know, everybody that we worked with had graduated from Marist College. You know when
we were teaching as Brothers. So, there was so much commonality. And then the beauty of it is
we maintained that after we left. Yeah. You had the Greater Marist community. We had, Marist
All publication, and it's Marist All publication is all the exes. And Paul Ambrose--Brother Paul
Ambrose endorsed that, you know, he wanted to make sure that we're all still part of Marist. You
know.
GN
(
49:03
):
He told David and I that we were more Marist Brothers than any Marist Brothers.
FB
(
49:06
):
Well, is--well, you know that. Yes.


Br. Frank Backus

50


JS
(
49:12
):
Who's David?
GN
(
49:12
):
David Kammer. He was a master of Novices in Tyngsboro, and then he came out and he never
taught at the college here. He ran a summer institute here--a religious institute for a couple of
years <laugh>, which led to the marriage of various groups, because none were coming in front.
And so <laugh>, that's the way it went. Yeah.
FB
(
49:40
):
One, we were having one reunion of Oakey's group. You know, these were all the brothers who
left, which are just a little bit younger than me. You know, I was in the oldest of that crowd. And
somebody said to me, you never left Marist Brothers <laugh>. And I almost had to say, well,
yeah, you may be right. You know, you are always part of it. You're always part of it. You can't
separate your life, you know, without thinking of a Marist Brother.
GN
(
50:15
):
I remember the expression; we were not canonical brothers anymore.
FB
(
50:20
):
Yes, that's right. But we were, yeah, we were brothers all the time. Yeah.
GN
(
50:26
):
Well, we've asked you, almost an hour, I suppose.
JS
(
50:28
):


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51


Yeah. But we often ask it--what did we forget to ask <laugh>? What else would you like to tell
us about?
FB
(
50:38
):
Well, you have my history here. I don't know if you read, it into--
JS
(
50:44
):
Of course we did. Of course, we did.
FB
(
50:45
):
Yeah. If you--
JS
(
50:47
):
Is there anything that we forgot to ask you about that you, any points that you wanted to make?
FB
(
50:51
):
No. Oh yeah.
GN
(
50:52
):
I, was anxious about that. Ski patrol, can we get into that?
FB
(
50:55
):
Oh yeah. That started here. I don't know if you know that, Brian--that's a good point. Over by
where the grotto used to be--or over by Sheahan Hall, I guess it is. Brian tried to make a ski hill.
Alright. For the--


Br. Frank Backus

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JS
(
51:17
):
Would this be Brian Desilets?
FB
(
51:18
):
Brian Desilets, tried to make a ski hill and he says if I make a ski hill, he had a rope tow and
everything else set up and he wanted to have on college skiing, you know. And he said, well,
we're going to have to learn how to take care of injuries.
JS
(
51:36
):
<laugh>.
FB
(
51:38
):
Right? So, he decided that he was going to look into ski patrol, because they would train you in
first aid and so on and skiing out, take people down, rescue people on a hill, and so on. So, he got
into this and he started talking to me, and then he started talking to my brother. My brother was a
student here at that time. So, my brother says to Brian, hey, my brother would probably do the
same thing. Me, you know. So, we got into the ski patrol.
GN
(
52:14
):
Wow.
JS
(
52:14
):
Isn't that something?
FB
(
52:15
):


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53


We started, Brian and I kind of started, he took the initiative and I kept following him because I
always followed him. He was my physics teacher.
GN
(
52:26
):
Didn't you go down to Wappingers or someplace, eventually?
FB
(
52:27
):
Well, we went down to Dutchess Ski Area, which was Mount Beacon.
GN
(
52:34
):
Oh yeah Beacon, right, right.
FB
(
52:35
):
Mount Beacon, yeah. And I started at Fahnestock State Park. Right. Because I taught in the
juniorate which was in Cold Spring. And I was about ten or fifteen minutes from Fahnestock
State Park where they had a ski area. And they were intimately interested in me because I was
only a half hour away and I could work Friday nights <laugh>. Okay. So, they did everything to
train me to be a ski patroller. Yeah.
JS
(
53:09
):
That's a great, I'm glad you remembered to ask about that. That's a great one.
FB
(
53:13
):
So, Brian and I, you know, started, Linus Foy wanted to join us. Alright. And he wanted, I was a
first aid instructor, and I was qualified to teach a course that you would be able to get on the ski
patrol. But the Red Cross would not allow a teacher to start a course without six people. Okay, in


Br. Frank Backus

54


other words, they didn't want, you know, okay, I could write a certificate for you and all that, so
they wanted a course with control. Alright. And that's why Linus, he was president at that time,
could never--
GN
(
53:54
):
Get the time.
FB
(
53:54
):
Could never get the time to do the regiment that I needed to have to teach him. Otherwise, the
president would've been on the ski patrol with us. <laugh>. Yeah.
JS
(
54:07
):
Wow.
GN
(
54:08
):
Okay. I think we can say--is this off yet?
JS
(
54:10
):
We can just say thank you so much, Frank.
GN
(
54:13
):
Oh, yeah. Okay.
JS
(
54:13
):
Thank you so much. We're so grateful to have you, so grateful you agreed to come here to do this
today. So, I think you said it was Halloween. We need to make sure that they know it's 2022.


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55


GN
(
54:25
):
Yes. Okay.

END OF INTERVIEW