John White transcript December 5, 1991.xml
Media
Part of John White Oral History
content
John
White
Marist
College
Poughkeepsie,
NY
Transcribed
by
Amy
Dugan
For
the
Marist
College
Archives
and
Special
Collections
1
White,
John
Transcript
–
John
White
Interviewee:
John
White
Interviewer:
Students
Interview
Date:
December
5,
1991
Location:
Topic:
Marist
College
History
Subject
Headings:
White, John
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Professor Emeritus
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
John White reflects upon his arrival to Marist College as a Professor of History. He
discusses his most memorable moments, the social changes throughout the years on campus,
how his perception of his role on campus has changed, as well as Marist’s biggest assets and
liabilities.
2
Speaker
2
(11:56):
I'm
interviewing
Professor
John
White.
He's
a
professor
of
history
at
Marist
college.
He's
been
here
since
1963.
And
we'll
start
off
with
the
first
question.
What
initially
brought
you
to
Marist
college?
What
was
your
first
contact
with
the
college?
Professor
John
White
(12:16):
I
was
in
graduate
school
at
Fordham
in
the
spring
of
1963
and
I
had
finished
my
graduate
work
and
I
was
looking
for
job.
One
of
the
professors
at
Fordham,
Joe
Callahan
went
to
the
medieval
academy
dinner
in
Waston.
And
by
coincidence,
he
sat
next
to
Dr.
Walsh
who
was
looking
for
someone
to
teach
European
history,
medieval
history.
So
Joel
Callaghan
told
me
to
write
Rosco.
I
came
up
here
in
June1963,
actually
May,
probably
May
and
then
again
in
June
and
I
started
teaching
in
September.
Speaker
2
(13:08):
Did
you
here
of
Marist
beforehand?
Professor
John
White
(13:11):
Yes,
I
knew
of
it
because
where
the
culinary
is
now
used
to
be
the
Jesuit
house
of
studies
at
St.
Andrews
and
Fordham
is
a
Jesuit
school.
One
of
my
graduate
professors
following
me.
Speaker
2
(13:34):
What
is
your
most
memorable
moment
or
event
witnessed
or
involved
in
while
you
were
here
at
Marist?
Professor
John
White
(13:42):
Well,
I've
been
thinking
about
that
since
you
showed
me
those
questions
yesterday
and
there
are
two
actually,
and
I
think
one
of
them
would
be
answered
in
the
second,
third
question
about
social
change.
I'll
use
the
other
one
then.
I
think
the
events
that
surrounded
the
Kent
state
problem
in
1970
which
not
only
did
we
witness
the
student
reaction
to
that,
but
I
think
ultimately
that
also
rather
dramatically
changed
the
method
and
manner
of
the
structure
of
the
college
education
wise.
We
stopped
certain
requirements,
we
moved
into
certain
other
areas
and
I'm
not
terribly
sure
that
that
was
for
the
best,
but
we
did
it.
Speaker
2
(14:35):
What
kind
of
reaction
did
you
see
from
the
students?
Professor
John
White
(14:37):
Well,
I
remember
distinctly
there
were
a
whole
series
of
meetings.
The
cafeteria
in
the
campus
center,
there
were
a
whole
series
of
statements
and
protests,
there
was
a
suspension
of
exams.
I
understand
there
were
plans
for
all
kinds
of
marches.
It
was
another
dramatic
event.
Speaker
2
(15:07):
Was
there
much
protesting
during
the
Vietnam
War
on
campus?
Or
was
it
quiet?
Professor
John
White
(15:13):
It's
interesting
that
we
look
back
on
the
Vietnam
War
now
we
make
certain
observations
about
it
and
certainly
as
a
history
teacher,
we
become
aware
of
the
fact
that
we
view
that
now
in
a
certain
different
light
than
those
of
us
who
experienced
it.
I
certainly
ultimately
became
most
sympathetic
to
the
attitude
of
the
students
but
I
came
off
a
different
perspective
initially.
I
came
here,
I
came
to
graduate
school
after
five
years
in
the
Navy.
And
so
my
approach
to
military
was
a
little
different,
but
ultimately
what
I
think
created
a
great
deal
of
difficulty
for
me
and
I
think
that
some
of
my
colleagues
was
the
fact
that
as
3
the
Vietnam
War
progressed,
and
so
many
students
had
student
affirmance
then
it
became
a
very
real
issue
for
any
number
of
us
as
to
what
kind
of
grades
we'd
give
out,
because
if
a
student
failed
then
in
a
certain
sense
we
were
sentencing
him
to
military
and
God
knows
what
would
happen.
So
I
would
suggest
that
problem
plus
the
growing
disenchantment
with
the
government.
And
I
think,
I
guess
there's
in
my
mind,
there's
nothing
that
strikes
me
more
graphically
regarding
the
problem
of
Vietnam.
And
in
that
same
spring
of
1978,
the
famous
March
on
Washington,
the
students
were
going
around
and
I'll
never
forget
being
absolutely
disgusted
with
the
arrogant
pose
of
the
John
Mitchell
attorney
general,
as
he
was
standing
on
the
balcony
outside,
outside
his
office,
in
the
justice
building
and
the
look
of
scorn
on
his
face.
And
I
never
had
any
great
love
for
Nixon
anyway
and
that
administration,
but
that
certainly
reinforced
my
position.
And
now,
as
I
look
back,
certainly
seeing
what
happened
with
Watergate
and
John
Mitchell's
role,
the
arrogance
of
that
reinforced.
Speaker
2
(17:35):
The
third
question,
what
social
changes
have
you
witnessed?
Professor
John
White
(17:40):
That
was
the
one
I
was
gonna
say
to
go
hand
and
look,
I
think
the
really
significant
social
change
I
found
is
when
I
first
came,
this
college
was
all
boys.
And
I
think
it
was
in
'68
or
'69
that
we
shifted
over
to
coed
and
it
was,
it
was
very
amusing
as
a
background,
they
could
have
girls
in
the
night
class,
but
couldn't
have
women
in
the
day
class
so
there
was
a
separation.
The
night
school
was
separate,
but
then
in
preparation
for
it,
there
were
a
whole
series
of
of
meetings.
I
remember
going
to
a
couple
of
them
over
in
the
fireside
round.
And
Tom
Wade
was
then
the
Dean.
He
was
all
for
this
change
and
what
made
it
not
so
funny
was
the
very
guys
who
I
thought
would
be
supportive
of
women,
were
all
the
ones
that
got
up
and
said,
no,
we
don't
want
any
women
here.
That's
gonna
ruin
the
character
of
the
college.
And
one
kid
got
up
and
said
and
I
found
it
so
amusing
because
the
juxtaposition
of
something,
one
guy
got
up
and
said,
well,
if
we
have
have
girls
then
Jerry
White
can't
tell
raunchy
stories
history
classes,
and
that'll
be
ruined.
And
I
remember
sitting
in
the
class
and
I
said,
but
I
can.
I
said,
because
I
just,
by
coincidence
that
semester,
I
was
teaching
group
of
novices
over
at
mother
Cabrini.
And
I
was
telling
them
the
same
stories
I
was
telling
the
guys.
And
I
said,
no,
it's
not
true,
but
I
found
that
so
strange
that
there
would
be
such
reaction.
And
now
I
understand
I
can
come
perhaps
come
to
grips
with
problems
let's
say
that
exist
in
those
eating
clubs
in
Princeton.
Now
all
those
guys
want
to
keep
those
male
S
but
the
other
thing
was,
Tom
Wade
was
convinced
that
if
girls
came
on
campus,
I'll
never
forget
he
said
to
me,
what
that's
gonna
do,
he
said,
it's
gonna
raise
the
level
of
dressing.
Everybody's
gonna
be
gonna
be
dressing
better
or
no
jeans
and
that
sort
of
thing.
And
I
said,
yeah,
good
luck.
But
I
think
that
was
a
great
event.
Okay.
And
I
haven't
stopped
telling
Roger.
Speaker
2
(19:48):
How
has
the
perception
of
your
role
here
at
Marist
changed
since
your
first
involvement
with
the
college?
Professor
John
White
(20:04):
You
were
asking
me
to
tell
you
about
what
I
did...
.
Speaker
2
(20:07):
Well,
when
you
came
here,
what
was
your
role
then?
And
now,
how
do
you
see
yourself
now?
Professor
John
White
(20:12):
4
Okay.
When
I
came
I
was
with
Roscoe,
I
think
we
were
the
only
two
who
were
teaching
medieval
history.
We
also
taught,
I
taught
more
European.
Speaker
2
(20:28):
Or
I'll
give
you
a
better
one,
how
have
you
seen
the
history
department
of
Marist
College
change
since
you've
been
here?
Professor
John
White
(20:36):
One
of
the
the
problems
as
I
just
alluded
to
answer
your
second
question
of
the
change
in
the
curriculum
as
a
consequence
of
the
whole
revolution
in
the
sixties
and
seventies.
One
of
the
things
that
happened
then
was
that
there
was
a
downplaying
of
core
courses.
When
I
came
here,
students
took
medieval,
moderate,
American,
two
semesters
of
American
history
and
there
were
a
substantial
number
of
majors
if
I
remember
correctly.
We
in
the
history
department
along
with
English,
had
the
largest
number
of
majors
in
the
school.
One
of
the
problems
that
followed
the
the
change
in
the
curriculum
was
that
there
was
a
downplaying
of
the
core
courses
or
what
we
now
call
core
courses.
And
as
a
consequence
of
those
survey
courses
that
were
either
dropped
or
they
were
changed
or
they
were
combined
with
other
courses.
As
the
as
the
number
of
history
majors
declined,
as
you
go
through
the
end
of
the
seventies
and
the
eighties,
that
meant
that
we
here
became
much
more
service
oriented
so
far
as
then
fulfilling
the
new
curriculum
in
the
core
and
we
don't
have
as
many
history
courses
as
we
used
to.
I
remember
when
I
was
teaching,
there
must
have
been
about
six
or
eight
courses
that
I
had
to
handle.
And
now
I'm
not
doing
that
many,
but
I
had,
we
had
medieval
art
architecture,
we
had
special
course
in
the
Renaissance,
we
had
a
special
course
in
form
ideas
and
middle
ages
and
that
sort
of
thing.
Speaker
2
(22:25):
So
do
you
think
now
you're
more
specific?
Your
teaching
role
has
become
much
more
narrowed.
Professor
John
White
(22:31):
Well,
it's
been
narrowed.
I
mean
you
still
have
to
teach
the
core,
but
to
me
there's
a
terrible
problem.
I
find
that
we're
given
three,
possibly
six
hours
of
the
student's
life.
And
most
of
my
students
who
come
in
don't
know
that
much
history
and
so
I
then
have
the
problem
of
trying
to
figure
out
what
they
can
do
to
fill
in
the
blanks
from
their
high
school
and
that
becomes
certainly
it's
a
challenge
every
year
that
I've
taught
this
core
course,
we've
changed
the
name
of
that
four
times
in
the
past
10
years.
But
each
year
it
comes
more
and
more
of
the
challenges
as
to
what
you
do,
how
you
handle
all
that
material
and
the
responsibility
is
to
me,
at
least
I
think
the
responsibility
gets
greater
and
greater
in
realizing
you
have
just
so
little
time
to
get
so
much
without
putting
them
to
sleep.
Professor
John
White
(23:29):
I
was
also
chairman
for
three
years,
'60,
'65,
'68.
I
hated
it.
I
don't
know
why
I
did
it,
but
I
do
remember
my
desk.
I
ran
the
department
in
fashion
and
I
got
the
word
of
advice
from
a
friend
of
mine
who
was
then
chairman
of
the
of
the
history
department
at
Fordham,
Roger
Wines.
Ran
into
him
once
at
the
American
star
association
convention.
And
he
said,
Jerry,
I
got
a
whole
batch
of
papers
that
fell
off
the
end
of
my
desk
in
September.
I
never
found
out
about
them
and
I
didn't
discover
them
until
December,
nobody
needed
them.
So
I
figured
the
same
thing,
be
important.
One
other
comment
I
would
make
about
the
social
aspect
of
things
that
changed
when
one
of
the
things
that
endeared
me
to
this
college
initially
was
the
fact
that
it
was
smaller.
I
went
to
a
small
college.
and
there
was
great
contact
and
when
I
first
came
here,
let's
say
through
the
the
sixties
and
seventies
there
was
a
great
deal
of
interaction
between
the
students
and
faculty.
We
used
to
meet,
go
to
dorms
and
wrap
to
go
across
here.
It
was
where
Skinners
is,
another
bar,
and
we'd
sit
there,
walk
down
to
the
big
watering
hole
here
was
for
the
brown
Derby
that
was
Marist
off
campus.
In
fact,
I
remember
one
year
it
was
the
guy
who
was
the
5
student
body
president
spent
most
of
his
time
down
there.
In
fact,
I
think
there
were
any
number
of
student
body
meetings
that
took
place
in
the
brown
Derby
and
the
bartenders
were
all
Marist
students
and
there's
a
whole
series.
I
think
the
the
last
chance
was
actually
originally
performed
by
a
bunch
of
guys
who
had
worked
at
the
brown
Derby
and
talented.
And
there's
one
group
that
they
used
to
have
a
banjo
band
or
something
that
sat
up
on
top
of
the
juke
box...
i'm
trying
think
of
the
guy
Larry
Clover
that's
Larry
Clover
he
was
an
English
major
and
he
played
his
guitar
or
banjo
and
he
and
another
bunch
of
guys
found
at
the
ground
the
last
chance
and
also
the
Renaissance
was
originally
established
by
some
Marist
people,
it
was
also
the
old
Coke
was
on
management
street.
No,
it
was
on
market
street.
Bill
that's
his
name...
playwright,
you
know,
lots
of
lots
of
interaction
now,
as
the
school
seemed
to
get
bigger.
I
don't
know
what
happened
to
that
but
you
mean
you
could
always
go
wandering
it
wasn't
called
a
Renaissance.
It
was
called
that
place.
It
was
called
up
to
house.
In
fact,
I
remember
one
of
my
students,
I
was
an
attorney
George
esky,
and
I
had
a,
was
sitting
on
top
of
a,
a
hood
of
a
car
in
the
parking
lot,
drinking
beer,
about
two
o'clock
in
the
morning.
And
we
got
into
problem.
He
didn't
like
my
approach,
constitutional
history
liar.
And
I
said,
right,
let's
prove
it.
We
became
good
friends.
Really?
Yeah.
But
there
was
a
great
deal
of
opportunity
interaction,
I
mean
yeah,
outside
the
class.
Yeah.
It
was,
it
was
marvelous.
You
could,
but
you
didn't
know
that
to
do
all
those
bars.
No,
man.
Little
mayor's
history.
In
fact
there
was
another,
I
knew
one
guy
who
used
to
be
on
security.
I'm
not
gonna
tell
you
his
name.
Cause
when
get
back,
he
used
to
be
a
football
player.
He,
he
was
a
linebacker
and
he
was
working
here
for
a
while
and
he
had
one
of
those
walkie
talking,
well,
that
could
carry
as
far
as
the
the
circle
bar
across
the
river.
So
he
could
go
out
there
and
could
hear,
oh,
security.
The
fifth
question.
What
do
you
view
as
mayor's
biggest
asset
and
its
biggest
liability?
Professor
John
White
(28:14):
I've
been
thinking
about
that
one.
I
think
our
asset
is
still
at
least
even
though
what
I've
just
said
about
the
loss
of
that
kind
of,
I
still
think,
I
still
think
that
majority
of
us
on
the
faculty
still
afford
cause
student
body
the
opportunity
to
meet
and
I
think
that's
important.
Cause
I
think
really,
if
we
don't
do
that,
then
it's
a,
it's
a
waste
of
your
money.
You
need
to
then
go
to
a,
a
state
school,
pay
less.
I
think
that
the
great
asset
is
that
we
have
the
student
body
has
the
opportunity
to
constantly
meet
with
faculty.
There's
still
that
personal
thing.
I
like
to
think
there
still
is
a
personal
relationship.
But
cause
of
these
stupid
rules
about
drinking,
you
can't
go
out
to
a
bar,
at
least
you're
not
supposed
to
see
that
they're
drinking.
But
that's
very
important
I've
always
thought
plus
the
fact
that
I
guess
there's
an
ambiguity.
On
one
side
I
think
it's
one
of
the
great
assets
is
that
we
are
making
use
of
so
much
that's
available
to
us
here
in
this
area
as
far
as
let's
say
computers
and
IBM
and
that
sort
of
thing.
On
the
other
side,
the
liability
to
that
I
see
is
the
possibility
that
we'd
cease
to
be
a
liberal
arts
school
and
we'd
cease
to
have
a
liberal
arts
tradition
and
we
could
get
into
the
traffic
of
becoming
a
trade
school,
which
I
think
would
be
terrible.
And
in
fact,
you
could
put
that
down
as
the
problem,
the
biggest
liability.
The
other
side
is,
I
must
say,
I
think
in
the
past
10
or
11
years,
the
longest
he's
been
here,
I
think
Dennis
has
done
a
marvelous
job
in
building
up
the
facility
of
the
campus.
I
think
the
place,
if
you
could've
seen
it,
when
I
came,
Champagnat
wasn't
here,
I
think
it
was...
Speaker
2
(30:23):
The
cosmetic
part.
Professor
John
White
(30:24):
Yeah
I
mean,
he's
done
a
splendid
job
of
building
and
making
the
place
much
more
presentable
as
it
were
much
more
attractive.
And
as
much
as
there
may
be
difficulties
between
the
faculty
and
the
administration,
that
comes
up,
I
think
in
the
long
history
of
any
institution,
that
type
of
thing.
Well,
it
may
give
a
couple
of
people,
hypertension.
I
think
it's
a
very
useful
thing
because
it
keeps
everybody
on
6
the
toes.
There's
always
something
going
on
and
that
type
of
an
interaction.
Well,
I
talk
about
that
in
specific
classes.
If
you
can
constantly
get
things
bouncing
off
each
other.
Speaker
2
(31:07):
All
right,
professor,
that's
it.
Yep.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Appreciate
it.
Professor
John
White
(31:12):
I'm
not
convicted
of
anything?
Speaker
2
(31:12):
No,
I'd
tell
you
(laughter).
7
White
Marist
College
Poughkeepsie,
NY
Transcribed
by
Amy
Dugan
For
the
Marist
College
Archives
and
Special
Collections
1
White,
John
Transcript
–
John
White
Interviewee:
John
White
Interviewer:
Students
Interview
Date:
December
5,
1991
Location:
Topic:
Marist
College
History
Subject
Headings:
White, John
Marist College Faculty
Marist College Professor Emeritus
Marist College History
Marist College (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College Social Aspects
Summary:
John White reflects upon his arrival to Marist College as a Professor of History. He
discusses his most memorable moments, the social changes throughout the years on campus,
how his perception of his role on campus has changed, as well as Marist’s biggest assets and
liabilities.
2
Speaker
2
(11:56):
I'm
interviewing
Professor
John
White.
He's
a
professor
of
history
at
Marist
college.
He's
been
here
since
1963.
And
we'll
start
off
with
the
first
question.
What
initially
brought
you
to
Marist
college?
What
was
your
first
contact
with
the
college?
Professor
John
White
(12:16):
I
was
in
graduate
school
at
Fordham
in
the
spring
of
1963
and
I
had
finished
my
graduate
work
and
I
was
looking
for
job.
One
of
the
professors
at
Fordham,
Joe
Callahan
went
to
the
medieval
academy
dinner
in
Waston.
And
by
coincidence,
he
sat
next
to
Dr.
Walsh
who
was
looking
for
someone
to
teach
European
history,
medieval
history.
So
Joel
Callaghan
told
me
to
write
Rosco.
I
came
up
here
in
June1963,
actually
May,
probably
May
and
then
again
in
June
and
I
started
teaching
in
September.
Speaker
2
(13:08):
Did
you
here
of
Marist
beforehand?
Professor
John
White
(13:11):
Yes,
I
knew
of
it
because
where
the
culinary
is
now
used
to
be
the
Jesuit
house
of
studies
at
St.
Andrews
and
Fordham
is
a
Jesuit
school.
One
of
my
graduate
professors
following
me.
Speaker
2
(13:34):
What
is
your
most
memorable
moment
or
event
witnessed
or
involved
in
while
you
were
here
at
Marist?
Professor
John
White
(13:42):
Well,
I've
been
thinking
about
that
since
you
showed
me
those
questions
yesterday
and
there
are
two
actually,
and
I
think
one
of
them
would
be
answered
in
the
second,
third
question
about
social
change.
I'll
use
the
other
one
then.
I
think
the
events
that
surrounded
the
Kent
state
problem
in
1970
which
not
only
did
we
witness
the
student
reaction
to
that,
but
I
think
ultimately
that
also
rather
dramatically
changed
the
method
and
manner
of
the
structure
of
the
college
education
wise.
We
stopped
certain
requirements,
we
moved
into
certain
other
areas
and
I'm
not
terribly
sure
that
that
was
for
the
best,
but
we
did
it.
Speaker
2
(14:35):
What
kind
of
reaction
did
you
see
from
the
students?
Professor
John
White
(14:37):
Well,
I
remember
distinctly
there
were
a
whole
series
of
meetings.
The
cafeteria
in
the
campus
center,
there
were
a
whole
series
of
statements
and
protests,
there
was
a
suspension
of
exams.
I
understand
there
were
plans
for
all
kinds
of
marches.
It
was
another
dramatic
event.
Speaker
2
(15:07):
Was
there
much
protesting
during
the
Vietnam
War
on
campus?
Or
was
it
quiet?
Professor
John
White
(15:13):
It's
interesting
that
we
look
back
on
the
Vietnam
War
now
we
make
certain
observations
about
it
and
certainly
as
a
history
teacher,
we
become
aware
of
the
fact
that
we
view
that
now
in
a
certain
different
light
than
those
of
us
who
experienced
it.
I
certainly
ultimately
became
most
sympathetic
to
the
attitude
of
the
students
but
I
came
off
a
different
perspective
initially.
I
came
here,
I
came
to
graduate
school
after
five
years
in
the
Navy.
And
so
my
approach
to
military
was
a
little
different,
but
ultimately
what
I
think
created
a
great
deal
of
difficulty
for
me
and
I
think
that
some
of
my
colleagues
was
the
fact
that
as
3
the
Vietnam
War
progressed,
and
so
many
students
had
student
affirmance
then
it
became
a
very
real
issue
for
any
number
of
us
as
to
what
kind
of
grades
we'd
give
out,
because
if
a
student
failed
then
in
a
certain
sense
we
were
sentencing
him
to
military
and
God
knows
what
would
happen.
So
I
would
suggest
that
problem
plus
the
growing
disenchantment
with
the
government.
And
I
think,
I
guess
there's
in
my
mind,
there's
nothing
that
strikes
me
more
graphically
regarding
the
problem
of
Vietnam.
And
in
that
same
spring
of
1978,
the
famous
March
on
Washington,
the
students
were
going
around
and
I'll
never
forget
being
absolutely
disgusted
with
the
arrogant
pose
of
the
John
Mitchell
attorney
general,
as
he
was
standing
on
the
balcony
outside,
outside
his
office,
in
the
justice
building
and
the
look
of
scorn
on
his
face.
And
I
never
had
any
great
love
for
Nixon
anyway
and
that
administration,
but
that
certainly
reinforced
my
position.
And
now,
as
I
look
back,
certainly
seeing
what
happened
with
Watergate
and
John
Mitchell's
role,
the
arrogance
of
that
reinforced.
Speaker
2
(17:35):
The
third
question,
what
social
changes
have
you
witnessed?
Professor
John
White
(17:40):
That
was
the
one
I
was
gonna
say
to
go
hand
and
look,
I
think
the
really
significant
social
change
I
found
is
when
I
first
came,
this
college
was
all
boys.
And
I
think
it
was
in
'68
or
'69
that
we
shifted
over
to
coed
and
it
was,
it
was
very
amusing
as
a
background,
they
could
have
girls
in
the
night
class,
but
couldn't
have
women
in
the
day
class
so
there
was
a
separation.
The
night
school
was
separate,
but
then
in
preparation
for
it,
there
were
a
whole
series
of
of
meetings.
I
remember
going
to
a
couple
of
them
over
in
the
fireside
round.
And
Tom
Wade
was
then
the
Dean.
He
was
all
for
this
change
and
what
made
it
not
so
funny
was
the
very
guys
who
I
thought
would
be
supportive
of
women,
were
all
the
ones
that
got
up
and
said,
no,
we
don't
want
any
women
here.
That's
gonna
ruin
the
character
of
the
college.
And
one
kid
got
up
and
said
and
I
found
it
so
amusing
because
the
juxtaposition
of
something,
one
guy
got
up
and
said,
well,
if
we
have
have
girls
then
Jerry
White
can't
tell
raunchy
stories
history
classes,
and
that'll
be
ruined.
And
I
remember
sitting
in
the
class
and
I
said,
but
I
can.
I
said,
because
I
just,
by
coincidence
that
semester,
I
was
teaching
group
of
novices
over
at
mother
Cabrini.
And
I
was
telling
them
the
same
stories
I
was
telling
the
guys.
And
I
said,
no,
it's
not
true,
but
I
found
that
so
strange
that
there
would
be
such
reaction.
And
now
I
understand
I
can
come
perhaps
come
to
grips
with
problems
let's
say
that
exist
in
those
eating
clubs
in
Princeton.
Now
all
those
guys
want
to
keep
those
male
S
but
the
other
thing
was,
Tom
Wade
was
convinced
that
if
girls
came
on
campus,
I'll
never
forget
he
said
to
me,
what
that's
gonna
do,
he
said,
it's
gonna
raise
the
level
of
dressing.
Everybody's
gonna
be
gonna
be
dressing
better
or
no
jeans
and
that
sort
of
thing.
And
I
said,
yeah,
good
luck.
But
I
think
that
was
a
great
event.
Okay.
And
I
haven't
stopped
telling
Roger.
Speaker
2
(19:48):
How
has
the
perception
of
your
role
here
at
Marist
changed
since
your
first
involvement
with
the
college?
Professor
John
White
(20:04):
You
were
asking
me
to
tell
you
about
what
I
did...
.
Speaker
2
(20:07):
Well,
when
you
came
here,
what
was
your
role
then?
And
now,
how
do
you
see
yourself
now?
Professor
John
White
(20:12):
4
Okay.
When
I
came
I
was
with
Roscoe,
I
think
we
were
the
only
two
who
were
teaching
medieval
history.
We
also
taught,
I
taught
more
European.
Speaker
2
(20:28):
Or
I'll
give
you
a
better
one,
how
have
you
seen
the
history
department
of
Marist
College
change
since
you've
been
here?
Professor
John
White
(20:36):
One
of
the
the
problems
as
I
just
alluded
to
answer
your
second
question
of
the
change
in
the
curriculum
as
a
consequence
of
the
whole
revolution
in
the
sixties
and
seventies.
One
of
the
things
that
happened
then
was
that
there
was
a
downplaying
of
core
courses.
When
I
came
here,
students
took
medieval,
moderate,
American,
two
semesters
of
American
history
and
there
were
a
substantial
number
of
majors
if
I
remember
correctly.
We
in
the
history
department
along
with
English,
had
the
largest
number
of
majors
in
the
school.
One
of
the
problems
that
followed
the
the
change
in
the
curriculum
was
that
there
was
a
downplaying
of
the
core
courses
or
what
we
now
call
core
courses.
And
as
a
consequence
of
those
survey
courses
that
were
either
dropped
or
they
were
changed
or
they
were
combined
with
other
courses.
As
the
as
the
number
of
history
majors
declined,
as
you
go
through
the
end
of
the
seventies
and
the
eighties,
that
meant
that
we
here
became
much
more
service
oriented
so
far
as
then
fulfilling
the
new
curriculum
in
the
core
and
we
don't
have
as
many
history
courses
as
we
used
to.
I
remember
when
I
was
teaching,
there
must
have
been
about
six
or
eight
courses
that
I
had
to
handle.
And
now
I'm
not
doing
that
many,
but
I
had,
we
had
medieval
art
architecture,
we
had
special
course
in
the
Renaissance,
we
had
a
special
course
in
form
ideas
and
middle
ages
and
that
sort
of
thing.
Speaker
2
(22:25):
So
do
you
think
now
you're
more
specific?
Your
teaching
role
has
become
much
more
narrowed.
Professor
John
White
(22:31):
Well,
it's
been
narrowed.
I
mean
you
still
have
to
teach
the
core,
but
to
me
there's
a
terrible
problem.
I
find
that
we're
given
three,
possibly
six
hours
of
the
student's
life.
And
most
of
my
students
who
come
in
don't
know
that
much
history
and
so
I
then
have
the
problem
of
trying
to
figure
out
what
they
can
do
to
fill
in
the
blanks
from
their
high
school
and
that
becomes
certainly
it's
a
challenge
every
year
that
I've
taught
this
core
course,
we've
changed
the
name
of
that
four
times
in
the
past
10
years.
But
each
year
it
comes
more
and
more
of
the
challenges
as
to
what
you
do,
how
you
handle
all
that
material
and
the
responsibility
is
to
me,
at
least
I
think
the
responsibility
gets
greater
and
greater
in
realizing
you
have
just
so
little
time
to
get
so
much
without
putting
them
to
sleep.
Professor
John
White
(23:29):
I
was
also
chairman
for
three
years,
'60,
'65,
'68.
I
hated
it.
I
don't
know
why
I
did
it,
but
I
do
remember
my
desk.
I
ran
the
department
in
fashion
and
I
got
the
word
of
advice
from
a
friend
of
mine
who
was
then
chairman
of
the
of
the
history
department
at
Fordham,
Roger
Wines.
Ran
into
him
once
at
the
American
star
association
convention.
And
he
said,
Jerry,
I
got
a
whole
batch
of
papers
that
fell
off
the
end
of
my
desk
in
September.
I
never
found
out
about
them
and
I
didn't
discover
them
until
December,
nobody
needed
them.
So
I
figured
the
same
thing,
be
important.
One
other
comment
I
would
make
about
the
social
aspect
of
things
that
changed
when
one
of
the
things
that
endeared
me
to
this
college
initially
was
the
fact
that
it
was
smaller.
I
went
to
a
small
college.
and
there
was
great
contact
and
when
I
first
came
here,
let's
say
through
the
the
sixties
and
seventies
there
was
a
great
deal
of
interaction
between
the
students
and
faculty.
We
used
to
meet,
go
to
dorms
and
wrap
to
go
across
here.
It
was
where
Skinners
is,
another
bar,
and
we'd
sit
there,
walk
down
to
the
big
watering
hole
here
was
for
the
brown
Derby
that
was
Marist
off
campus.
In
fact,
I
remember
one
year
it
was
the
guy
who
was
the
5
student
body
president
spent
most
of
his
time
down
there.
In
fact,
I
think
there
were
any
number
of
student
body
meetings
that
took
place
in
the
brown
Derby
and
the
bartenders
were
all
Marist
students
and
there's
a
whole
series.
I
think
the
the
last
chance
was
actually
originally
performed
by
a
bunch
of
guys
who
had
worked
at
the
brown
Derby
and
talented.
And
there's
one
group
that
they
used
to
have
a
banjo
band
or
something
that
sat
up
on
top
of
the
juke
box...
i'm
trying
think
of
the
guy
Larry
Clover
that's
Larry
Clover
he
was
an
English
major
and
he
played
his
guitar
or
banjo
and
he
and
another
bunch
of
guys
found
at
the
ground
the
last
chance
and
also
the
Renaissance
was
originally
established
by
some
Marist
people,
it
was
also
the
old
Coke
was
on
management
street.
No,
it
was
on
market
street.
Bill
that's
his
name...
playwright,
you
know,
lots
of
lots
of
interaction
now,
as
the
school
seemed
to
get
bigger.
I
don't
know
what
happened
to
that
but
you
mean
you
could
always
go
wandering
it
wasn't
called
a
Renaissance.
It
was
called
that
place.
It
was
called
up
to
house.
In
fact,
I
remember
one
of
my
students,
I
was
an
attorney
George
esky,
and
I
had
a,
was
sitting
on
top
of
a,
a
hood
of
a
car
in
the
parking
lot,
drinking
beer,
about
two
o'clock
in
the
morning.
And
we
got
into
problem.
He
didn't
like
my
approach,
constitutional
history
liar.
And
I
said,
right,
let's
prove
it.
We
became
good
friends.
Really?
Yeah.
But
there
was
a
great
deal
of
opportunity
interaction,
I
mean
yeah,
outside
the
class.
Yeah.
It
was,
it
was
marvelous.
You
could,
but
you
didn't
know
that
to
do
all
those
bars.
No,
man.
Little
mayor's
history.
In
fact
there
was
another,
I
knew
one
guy
who
used
to
be
on
security.
I'm
not
gonna
tell
you
his
name.
Cause
when
get
back,
he
used
to
be
a
football
player.
He,
he
was
a
linebacker
and
he
was
working
here
for
a
while
and
he
had
one
of
those
walkie
talking,
well,
that
could
carry
as
far
as
the
the
circle
bar
across
the
river.
So
he
could
go
out
there
and
could
hear,
oh,
security.
The
fifth
question.
What
do
you
view
as
mayor's
biggest
asset
and
its
biggest
liability?
Professor
John
White
(28:14):
I've
been
thinking
about
that
one.
I
think
our
asset
is
still
at
least
even
though
what
I've
just
said
about
the
loss
of
that
kind
of,
I
still
think,
I
still
think
that
majority
of
us
on
the
faculty
still
afford
cause
student
body
the
opportunity
to
meet
and
I
think
that's
important.
Cause
I
think
really,
if
we
don't
do
that,
then
it's
a,
it's
a
waste
of
your
money.
You
need
to
then
go
to
a,
a
state
school,
pay
less.
I
think
that
the
great
asset
is
that
we
have
the
student
body
has
the
opportunity
to
constantly
meet
with
faculty.
There's
still
that
personal
thing.
I
like
to
think
there
still
is
a
personal
relationship.
But
cause
of
these
stupid
rules
about
drinking,
you
can't
go
out
to
a
bar,
at
least
you're
not
supposed
to
see
that
they're
drinking.
But
that's
very
important
I've
always
thought
plus
the
fact
that
I
guess
there's
an
ambiguity.
On
one
side
I
think
it's
one
of
the
great
assets
is
that
we
are
making
use
of
so
much
that's
available
to
us
here
in
this
area
as
far
as
let's
say
computers
and
IBM
and
that
sort
of
thing.
On
the
other
side,
the
liability
to
that
I
see
is
the
possibility
that
we'd
cease
to
be
a
liberal
arts
school
and
we'd
cease
to
have
a
liberal
arts
tradition
and
we
could
get
into
the
traffic
of
becoming
a
trade
school,
which
I
think
would
be
terrible.
And
in
fact,
you
could
put
that
down
as
the
problem,
the
biggest
liability.
The
other
side
is,
I
must
say,
I
think
in
the
past
10
or
11
years,
the
longest
he's
been
here,
I
think
Dennis
has
done
a
marvelous
job
in
building
up
the
facility
of
the
campus.
I
think
the
place,
if
you
could've
seen
it,
when
I
came,
Champagnat
wasn't
here,
I
think
it
was...
Speaker
2
(30:23):
The
cosmetic
part.
Professor
John
White
(30:24):
Yeah
I
mean,
he's
done
a
splendid
job
of
building
and
making
the
place
much
more
presentable
as
it
were
much
more
attractive.
And
as
much
as
there
may
be
difficulties
between
the
faculty
and
the
administration,
that
comes
up,
I
think
in
the
long
history
of
any
institution,
that
type
of
thing.
Well,
it
may
give
a
couple
of
people,
hypertension.
I
think
it's
a
very
useful
thing
because
it
keeps
everybody
on
6
the
toes.
There's
always
something
going
on
and
that
type
of
an
interaction.
Well,
I
talk
about
that
in
specific
classes.
If
you
can
constantly
get
things
bouncing
off
each
other.
Speaker
2
(31:07):
All
right,
professor,
that's
it.
Yep.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Appreciate
it.
Professor
John
White
(31:12):
I'm
not
convicted
of
anything?
Speaker
2
(31:12):
No,
I'd
tell
you
(laughter).
7
