Gerald Cox interview February 25, 2002.xml
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Part of Gerard Cox Oral History Part 2
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Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
1
Gerald Cox # II
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York
Transcribed by Mary Ellen Lent
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
2
Interviewee:
Gerald Cox
Interviewer:
John Ansley
Interview Date:
February twenty-fifth-thousand two
Location:
Gerald Cox’s office in the Student Center
CD No:
19
Topic:
Marist College History
See Also:
MHP – Oral History
Subject Headings:
Cox, Gerald
Marist Brothers – United States – History
Marist College – History
Marist College – (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College – Social Aspects
Comments:
Gerald Cox discusses the mission of the Marist Brothers as well as
the history of the Marist Brothers.
Summary:
Gerald Cox recalls his early days on the campus and some of the
original buildings. He tells about his life as a Student Brother and also about his college
life. He also discusses the construction of new buildings and the growth in faculty and
staff as well as the introduction of lay students. Gerald recalls his days as professor, dean
of students and also reflects on former Brother Paul Ambrose also Linus Richard Foy and
Dennis Murray as presidents.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
3
Transcript -Gerald Cox- Interview # 2
“Beginning of interview: John Ansley:
This is an interview conducted with Jerry
Cox, Director of the theater program and English Professor we are in his office in the
Student Center at Marist College campus, the date is February 25
th
, 2002 in the morning,
the interviewer is John Ansley.
John Ansley:
In your previous interview you discussed the development of Marist
College today I would like to ask you about what life was like on this campus first as a
student then as an Administrator and Professor. If you would help to put things in
prospective for current Marist students would you briefly discuss the mission of the
Marist Brothers and the history of the order?
Gerald Cox:
I would be glad to John; I would say that the mission of the Marist
Brothers was really to educate young men and women primarily the impoverished. And
this the order dedicated to a great deal of fervor and it spread throughout the Western
Hemisphere and the Orient in terms of missions as the order itself was growing
throughout Europe. The growth of the order was quite amazing and I think in the United
States it was below working class that most of the Brothers schools where directed
toward or where founded in communities of the middle class working families. That was
true throughout New England and certainly in New York City and at other points that
developed later all that seemed to hold true.
J.A.
When did you first come to Marist College?
G.C.
I came to Marist College for the first time as a visitor in the late forties. But I
came here as a student in nineteen fifty-two.
J.A.
Was your first visit to get a feel for what the life would be like for you?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
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G.C.
Yes.
J.A.
Was the college Marist College at that point or was it Marian College?
G.C.
It was Marian College.
J.A.
Do you know why it was named Marian College and why the name changed?
G.C.
Well, Marian College according to Brother Paul Ambrose who was the principal
architect although not the first president of the college. He said that the name Marian was
chosen to be a combination of the two names of Mary and Ann. Certainly, Mary and the
role that she played in the life of Marist Brothers who originally had the first title of the
Marist Brothers which was the Little Brothers of Mary before they became the Marist
Brothers at the schools. And St. Ann has been the patroness of the province of it’s first
founded in the United States.
J.A.
Okay and how many students where present at the time when you arrived at the
college?
G.C.
My recollection is that when my class arrived we pushed the capacity of the
college close to one hundred and fifty.
J.A.
And how many Brothers?
G.C.
All where Brothers.
J.A.
So one hundred and fifty.
G.C.
That would be close to one hundred and fifty Student Brothers and there would be
an additional maybe fifteen who where on staff.
J.A.
Okay and what where your duties when you first began your studies at Marist?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
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G.C.
Well your primarily duty was to be a student and to get as much as you could
from your classes. But we all did have our other jobs and in my previous training centers
that I was at I always seemed to wound up being the librarian.
J.A.
Really.
G.C.
Yes [Laughter]
J.A.
That’s a good job. [Laughter]
G.C.
Yes, a good job, I said to myself there’s always a future for librarians. [Laughter]
But then at one point in time I stated that I had really worked enough with books couldn’t
I do something different and I was assigned to what we refer to humorously as the
painters union. So we began painting, I began painting with two or three others Brothers
and we would do everything from trims on windows, on exterior of buildings to
repainting interior rooms
and then of course when the building of the chapel came we had
primarily a very important job which was to do all of the woodwork in the chapel.
J.A.
Yes, that’s beautiful I imagine that took quite some time.
G.C.
It did.
J.A.
I’ll jump ahead a little bit since you mentioned the chapel was that an unusual
design at the time?
G.C.
It was- it was thought of as being quite a bit ahead of it’s time. The locating of the
chapel the altar in the middle of the chapel and having the community around it. It
seemed to be especially correct or fitting for us as a community to gather around the altar
in that fashion. Especially since Marcellin Champagnat formed the first places the
Brothers could be found beside the altar.
J.A.
Where did you live, did you have a dorm?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
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G.C.
Yes, in the mansion what had been part of the MacPherson estate over to the north
of Waterworks Road just beyond what had been the outdoor swimming pool which is
now the basement of Lowell Thomas and Dyson. [Laughter] If there where problems we
know why. Because that pool was fed by natural springs that where making there way
down the mountain side toward the river. In that building I lived in St. Michael’s
dormitory which was not part, it was attached to the original building but was really an
addition that had been build on to the building. My bed was located directly under the fire
alarms for the building [Laughter] and the fire alarm was used for waking us up in the
morning. I had never had trouble hearing the alarm until after spending two years under
the fire alarm and there after to this day any normal alarm clock seems not to make
enough noise to wake me up. [Laughter]
J.A.
I can imagine that’s kind of a step down after that. Was the main part of the
building St. Ann’s Hermitage or was it renamed that by the Brothers?
G.C.
Yes.
J.A.
Okay that’s the story and that was eventually torn down?
G.C.
Eventually it burned down.
J.A.
Okay.
G.C.
It was one of those mysterious fires.
J.A.
Oh I see. [Laughter]
G.C.
You’re not quite sure how it started but no one was in the building.
J.A.
That’s good, Okay did you share one large room with several other Brothers?
G.C.
Oh yes, this St. Michael’s dormitory was one of the smaller rooms we had ten, ten
of us where in that room.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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J.A.
Okay what did you do in free time did you play sports, listen to music?
G.C.
I don’t think we had free time to tell you the truth. Are schedule are daily
schedule was very -very tightly constructed so between religious services, attending
class, doing your employment you had some type of weekly or bi-weekly assignments
that might be serving tables, it might be washing dishes, it might be taking care of the
bathrooms, sweeping the dormitories. You had an assignment that worked into the early
morning hours that was before you ever went to class and then to the special assignments
that we got, the construction once the building programs. That’s very little time for free
time but when we did have and probably what was most constant was an evening
recreation period. I remember during the evening recreation period if we decided to put
on a play or I had been asked to put on a play for a holiday or a holy day that was coming
up and the community was going to celebrate that occasion and this would be part of that
celebration we would normally be rehearsing during the evening recreation hour.
J.A.
So what was a typical day for you when did you get up and when did you go to
bed was it, it sounds like it was very highly structured?
G.C.
Yes, I would say that I have memory – but it may fail me a bit, I think we got up
at about five thirty and we where probably in bed by ten thirty at night.
J.A.
Okay and work in classes or in between. I heard a couple of stories of students
being pulled out of class if a construction project was going on. Did that ever happen to
you?
G.C.
Yes, and I would say that I don’t think that it was an arbitrary pulling up we were
assigned we took turns and when it was your turn you might be assigned for a two week
period to work either on construction somewhere here on campus or there was building
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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program also going on in Esopus, New York at the Marist Preparatory. You might be
shipped over there for two weeks to help with the construction work. But you were, it
was clear to you that you where going to held responsible for all the classes that you
missed so you had to rely upon the good will of your confreres that they where going to
take good notes and they would tutor you in getting the work done. And my recollections
is that you where not excused from assignments that where given you still had to get the
assignments done by whatever the assigned deadline was.
J.A.
When you where a Student Brother where there still gardens and bee hives and
live stock on campus?
G.C.
Yes, we had no need for lawn mowers the sheep took care of cutting the grass.
[Laughter] And we had some pigs, we had cows, we had chickens and we certainly had
bee hives yes.
J.A.
Did you ever sell any of the live stock or vegetables or honey to outside members
of the community?
G.C.
That was going on but I was never directly involved with any of those sales. I had
no contact with the outside community.
J.A.
Okay so no part of the egg run? [Laughter]
G.C.
No, part of the egg run or the honey run. [Laughter]
J.A.
Did outside members of the community visit the campus often or was it just
merely for some business transactions picking up eggs or honey?
G.C.
No, we did not have much by way of visitors from the outside community coming
to campus. If there was reason for them to come the chances are that we were tided up
doing something and we wouldn’t have gotten to see them anyhow.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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J.A.
Was there any interaction between the Marist Brothers and any other religious
orders in the area?
G.C.
Not much that I can recall but we did have contact on special religious holidays or
occasions yes and we did have priests who came down from St. Andrews from the Jesuits
Seminary which was right up the road where the Culinary Institute now is. Sometimes
we had interaction with the Redemptorists over in Esopus but there was no large scale
involved in this.
J.A.
Let’s see now, I imagine that taking the mission of the Marist Brothers into
account that you where doing quite a bit of out reach to the surrounding community?
G.C.
No, I would say that, see during that decade of the nineteen fifties the outreach
began to occur much more in the sixties. I think in the fifties things where much more
encapsulated. We had not yet taken down the walls that ran along Route 9 that separated
the Marist Brothers from the community. I think many of the people in the community
they knew the Marist Brothers where here but it was something of a mystery, the walls
separated us.
J.A.
So the Brothers where being educated as teachers and then sent out so it was more
of the outreach to the broader community around the world.
G.C.
Its strange phenomenon to place although we where somewhat isolated from the
community immediately surrounding us when I talk about the hundred and fifty
undergraduates students who where here Student Brothers it was an increditably diverse
group of students. At the time that I was here we had Student Brothers not only those
who where American, we had Canadians, Chinese we had Spaniards we had Portuguese
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
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from Brazil we had Mexicans we had Philippines and we had our
first Africans from
Malawi.
J.A.
That’s very interesting was taking or learning another language was that a
requirement since you, did you know if you where going to be sent aboard?
G.C.
No, on one knew whether they would be sent aboard, they where being trained
primarily to work in the United States. Now some of the international Student Brothers
who came, one of the reasons for there coming to college here was to become more
proficient in English. Many of them had been kind of spotted as potential leaders for the
Marist Brothers in there country and there superiors thought it was important that they be
fluent in English. I would say that our study of foreign languages although it was part of
the curriculum, you had foreign language requirements was never approached from the
point of view that we might need that language for our work other than teaching foreign
languages.
J.A.
Let’s see moving on a little bit, when did you graduate?
G.C.
I graduated in nineteen fifty-six.
J.A.
Okay do you remember how many students where in your graduating class?
G.C.
I think there where thirty to thirty five students.
J.A.
Okay.
G.C.
But I did not attend the ceremony with the class in fifty-six, you see my class I
should have graduated in fifty-five, but in the summer of fifty-five the summer of fifty-
four rather there was a shortage of teachers and I volunteered to go teaching early. So I
had one just about a year of college remaining to be done and I indicated to Brother Paul
that I was not bothered by the prospect of going out early although I would appreciate
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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being able to stay and finish the degree. Some may have thought that I had ulterior
motives because virtually everyone in my class went out teaching early or wound up
spending a year in the tailor shop or in the laundry or cooking. Since I have not done any
of those things yet if I had stayed in my senior year and finished the odds where pretty
good I would have wound up tailoring or cooking for a year. So I had altered that by
going out teaching a year early and took a year what we call extension courses, where
faculty came down to New York City and we would go to them and take classes on the
week ends and in the summers to finish. So I wound up receiving my actual diploma
from Brother Paul Ambrose in the kitchen of Marist Preparatory in Esopus. [Laughter]
Where I was going into the kitchen I heard someone call my name and I turned around
and something had been throw at me and from across the room I caught my degree.
J.A.
Not your typical ceremony, [Laughter] it’s a little unusual, when you first arrived
on the Marist Campus as a Student Brother do you remember how many buildings there
where?
G.C.
When, there was St. Mary’s which was the home of the Marian Library we had a
collection of Mariology that was kept in St. Mary’s building. And there was an annex, a
one story building the side which is now where the Sheehan Parking Lot is, that was a
one story building and that’s where the honey was kept. And we had Greystone the
Marian Building which no longer stands, the Gate House, St. Peter’s, St. Ann’s
Hermitage, the old MacPherson building and the barns. That was about it.
J.A.
Oh, so you’ve seem some extensive changes and building on campus. Did you
have a favorite building that’s still standing or was there one that was torn down?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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G.C.
I would say probably of all the buildings the chapel which I worked most
extendedly on was probably my favorite building. Probably more memories are
associated with that building than with any of the other buildings.
J.A.
Didn’t that used to be connected to the old Fontaine where the library, where the
new library stands now.
G.C.
Yes, right and the old Fontaine was connected to the Marian Building which ran
between the old gymnasium or part of Marian Hall and the library.
J.A.
And in what function did the old Fontaine Hall serve?
G.C.
The old Fontaine Hall was build originally as a dormitory for the Student
Brothers.
J.A.
And then they would be able to attend services being connected.
G.C.
In the chapel and it was also connected to the Marian Building which was a major
classroom building for the Student Brothers.
J.A.
I see, okay that’s interesting, I didn’t realize that.
G.C.
I know how difficult it is and how confusing it can become because depending
upon what years many of these buildings where used for different purposes. So
depending upon what traffic required what was a classroom building one year could be
something else the next year.
J.A.
And the brothers did the majority of the construction when you where a student
which you talked about a little before where you helped with the chapel. But all the new
construction at the time was done by the Brothers or the Student Brothers?
G.C.
Yes, the Student Brothers or Brothers from the outside communities who came on
week-ends or on holidays or in the summer time to help with the construction.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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J.A.
Why do you think the construction by the Brothers ultimately stopped and was
under taken by contractors?
G.C.
The complexity of the construction was one reason and then the need for speedier
construction. See we learned that as novices at the construction business we really knew
very little so everything was done once upon the wrong way to do something and then it
was done a second time to do it the right way. [Laughter] So we did everything twice
nothing was done the first time and it was correct the first time told you how not to do it.
J.A.
That’s interesting so you didn’t necessary have a background in construction you
just learned as you went? [Laughter]
G.C.
Oh, no- no [Laughter] no one had any construction background we began to pride
yourselves on depending upon where we were in training the various training centers we
may have to one class in three different locations helped put up buildings. So people
acquired some skills but these where not union skills these where apprentice skills.
J.A.
And was Nilus Donnelly in charge?
G.C.
Oh, yes he was he was our
lord and master
and when you were assigned to the
construction gang he was your boss.
J.A.
I’ve seen a few pictures of him operating cranes and bulldozers and backhoes, one
that sticks out in my mind is of the chapel and the steeple being placed on chapel were
you present went that was being done?
G.C.
In fact, I was literally present and on the grounds when that picture was taken.
J.A.
Didn’t they run into a problem where the crane wasn’t quite long enough to
accommodate?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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G.C
Oh, I mean you name a problem and we had it [Laughter] I mean if you think that
chapel and the points in which the walls met and its shape of the building. Where the
walls met is solid poured concrete alright several feet thick and the very first joint that we
poured was off its mark. So this solid concrete mass had to be taken down and first we
tried with jackhammers and that’s what that was like trying to jackhammer this concrete,
sledge hammers and then they actually contemplated using dynamite. [Laughter]
J.A.
So it wasn’t a smooth process then for the chapel.
G.C.
No, no one was ever disappointed when something didn’t come out right the first
time also it became pretty much the rule of thumb. [Laughter]
J.A.
Didn’t question it after a while.
G.C.
Right.
J.A.
You talk about, you mention that there was a pool on campus, would you tell me a
little more about that.
G.C.
Well just north of Waterworks Road was this beautiful low laying area that tended
to be very moist because it was fed by natural springs and when they excavated they
found that could be a beautiful lake and that lake could be converted into a natural
swimming pool. And that’s exactly what they did do and it served the Student Brothers
and as the college began to grow and change and more lay people where involved with
the faculty and more lay students everyone began to use, everyone in the Marist
Community began to use the pool. And there was a period in its last years when you
would frequently find many young mothers, wife’s of faculty or staff over there during
the day with there little children around the pool. So it became a really a gathering place
for the entire Marist Community the way it had originally served the purpose for the
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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Brothers themselves when they were the only ones here. The Brothers used it both in the
summer and in the winter, in the winter they would freeze it and we would play hockey.
J.A.
Oh, that’s fun, now was there a dramatic change in life on campus with the
increase of lay students?
G.C.
Not initially I think what happened is the advent of lay students comes around
fifty-eight and as we move into the sixties we begin to get the impact of Vatican II and I
think that Vatican II had much more to do with the changes that occurred here then
perhaps the arrival of the lay students. Students are students and initially there was some
concern about you know to what extent should a lay student and the Student Brothers
mix. And it was like trying to keep your finger in the dike. I mean they were young
people who had much in common that were attending classes together and there was no
way in which you were going to keep them separate. Nor was there good reason to keep
them separate.
J.A.
Was there any concern with the introduction of female students?
G.C.
That was a much bigger debate the arrival of the acceptance of women in the
college. Which probably accounts for one of the opportunities which we did miss in the
late sixties which was the offer to take over St. Francis Hospital’s nursing program. And
faculty voted not to because it would mean introducing women to the day classes, women
had been accepted into the evening division but not in day classes and within two years
that decision was reversed and women would be allowed into day session but at that point
we had missed the opportunity to transfer the school of nursing here.
J.A.
How early on were lay students living on campus? Did they have dorms
immediately?
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February 25, 2002
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G.C.
The very first dormitory for the lay students was Donnelly, was the basement of
Donnelly.
J.A.
Okay so that’s got to create some changes so the dormitory, wasn’t the library in
there at one point as well?
G.C.
The library was in Donnelly also, yes. And the gathering place for the commuter
lay students was Adrian Hall that was called Commuter Student Center.
J.A.
So Donnelly Hall must have really been the center of campus.
G.C.
Yes, a great deal of the activity at campus took place in Donnelly Hall at the time
that Donnelly Hall was finished. Although I probably should never use the word finished
because it seems like no building is ever finished, they keep changing.
J.A.
That had a major addition as well didn’t it; with Donnelly didn’t they enclose part
of it?
G.C.
Well in the nineties we, to complete interior and exterior renovations, so the
building is left with very much the exterior design of the original but the interior is pretty
much completely redone.
J.A.
Okay I was a little unclear on what exactly had been done so that’s interesting.
Where you a student on campus or where you back as Administrator when the transfer of
control from the Marist Brothers to the Marist College Education Cooperation took over?
G.C.
Yes, I was back on staff then.
J.A.
You where on staff okay what was your reaction to that in general and did you
have strong feelings at the time?
G.C.
See again when we’re taking, yes I did have strong feelings because of my times
both to the Marist Brothers and to the college. And in was a period the nineteen-sixties
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February 25, 2002
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were a period of frequent significant changes taking place and in many ways the transfer
fell into the category of just another one of this decades significant changes. The college
had begun to grow and develop and it was clear that the growth was going to continue, it
was putting a great deal of pressure on the Marist Brothers in terms of personal and
financing. And for the sake of there other schools they felt they really had to limit there
commitment to the college and then looking at the models that came in to evolve and
other Catholic Colleges it seemed wise to make the change and to make that transfer. And
hope to find the appropriate means to continue the mission of the Marist Brothers at the
college without holding on to the ownership of it.
J.A.
Now then during that occurred in nineteen sixty-eight?
G.C.
Sixty-eight, I had returned here in sixty-seven.
J.A.
And as Dean of Students?
G.C.
No I had returned as a full time faculty member.
J.A.
Full time faculty member okay. So what classes where you teaching at that point?
G.C.
At that point I was teaching Voices of Protest a topical sixties course [Laughter]
and that was really a course in American Public Address. I was teaching the basis
Literature Course that was required of all the students and I was teaching one or two
other courses at the moment I don’t remember.
J.A.
That’s quite a load, is that typical to teach four courses per semester?
G.C.
In those days it was not “A” typical [Laughter] we were young and we were
ambitious and curriculums change every thing was in flux.
J.A.
So you probably have quite a number of different courses that you have taught?
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February 25, 2002
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G.C.
Yes, I know at the time that I was being considered for tenure I mean in the
nineteen seventies. At that point I had already taught about twenty different courses from
sixty-seven to the point of the tenure review in the seventies.
J.A.
That’s remarkable
G.C.
Yes, yes it is [Laughter]
J.A.
This is just a question to try to give current students some idea of how the campus
was set up, did the faculty have offices in one location or did you get bounced around
quite a bit if you had a single office or did you have multiple offices?
G.C.
We where scattered, we where scattered around the campus. By sixty-nine I had
become involved with doing some Administrative work so I tended to use my
Administrative job as the foundation for getting my office more so than my faculty status
where I was very junior faculty member at that point in time. But I mean my office for
example from the most early years I had an office in the basement of Donnelly then I
moved to an office in the old Fontaine from Fontaine to Greystone, the basement of
Greystone. So I mean you name the building there where offices in it that could be used.
J.A.
Okay has the change in growth on campus affected the Marist ideals?
G.C.
The change in growth, growth of?
J.A.
Of the size of the campus of the student body?
G.C.
No, I would say, I think the Marist ideals have been one of the constants through
all the changes that where going on, just as I have described my feelings about the under-
graduate that we have. After all the changes than occurred we still have very much, we
still attract the same type of student to the institution. And I think part of the attraction
has something to do with those Marist ideals.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
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J.A.
Yes, I’ve been impressed with the students here, they have always been very
eager to help out if they can, welcome any person on campus; it’s nice when I started
here.
G.C.
It seems to be a good fit the type of student we attract and the ideals that we
espouse.
J.A.
I see what do you envision for the future of Marist College?
G.C.
Well I think Marist College is at one of its turning points, it’s at a fork in the road
and it’s a very important moment in time for the college. I say that because I think that
large significant number of what we might think of as early generation faculty who are
now at retirement age and I think with there exodus they where so imbued with the
Marist ideals. And seem to fill so many positions of leadership in carrying those ideals
forward I think the question now, who’s going to pick up the torch which faculty leaders,
which administrators will fill those positions in the future?
J.A.
Okay you don’t have to answer this question if you don’t want to but since Marist
College has had three very influential presidents, Brother Paul Ambrose Fontaine, Dr.
Linus Richard Foy and our current president Dr. Dennis J. Murray if you would, how do
you feel that there styles of leadership have differed?
G.C.
I think there three very different individuals and each one was a good man a great
man for his moment in time. Brother Paul when he first came here in the forties was a
young ambitious visionary whose able to see the potential and Lord knows with the little
bit that was here it really took some imagination to foresee what was possible. And he
went about making things happen; at the moment in time that he left and Richard Foy
came in Richard came in as the youngest president in the United States as a college
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
20
president. And with his brilliant mind, his mathematical acumen, his logic, he was able
to put together plans for the expansion of the college. But build upon and dovetailed very
nicely what Brother Paul had done in the points which Paul Ambrose era had taken us.
And it didn’t mean calling for significant changes, it did mean the acceptance of the lay
students, it did mean changing the college name, it did mean the admission of women, it
did mean the transfer of the Brother’s ownership of the college to the private cooperation.
These where very major, very significant changes that he had not only the vision to see
the importance of but he had the courage to bring about.
J.A.
Yes, I thought it was especially interesting after the college was transferred to
educational cooperation that he stayed on as president and continued with almost other
ten years.
G.C.
That’s right another ten years, yes.
J.A.
So it’s interesting, are there any topics that we failed to cover in these two
interviews?
G.C.
Well probably I should say sometime about our current president I talked about
Brother Paul and Richie Foy I would like to talk about Dennis Murray. And of course my
role in Administration really coincides with his tenure as president; he became president
in seventy-nine and it was in seventy-nine that I became Dean of Students and eventually
the Vice President of Student Affairs. So I had the pleasure of working with him all of
those years in a rather high level administrative position and I was able to witness the
evolution of its own vision and it was incredible to watch. The first period which would
be a period of assessments his coming here and assessing who and what we where, seeing
the potential of that for students who would come to this institution. And then being able
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
21
to translate that vision to very specific concrete things such as buildings, the kind of
buildings we put up rather we’re taking about resident halls or renovations of McCann
Center or a new library. It was always done with the students in mind what will the
outcome be, how will it benefit the students, how will it make it possible for us to make
additional progress for the future. So I would have to say I really feel myself very
fortunate in having had close contact with all three of those men, Paul Ambrose, Richard
Foy and Dennis Murray and each one had different things to teach me just as each one
made different contributions to the evolution of the college.
J.A.
It’s interesting that we...three presidents really where at the college for such a
long time, do you have any insights in to why they may have stayed on so long, was it
usual for a college president to stay for five or seven years and then move on?
G.C.
No, I think it’s a good question John, the only answer I will be able to come up
with because I heard each of these individual as well as I remember myself saying when I
first came here. Maybe five or six years and then I’ll move on I think part of the mystic
of Marist is that it is not a place to work it’s a place to live and you get caught up in
living your life and this is part of your life. And it’s not that you don’t have choices
because I think each of us had offers to go other places but you’ve decided that you’ve
made a commitment to this place to this institution and to those ideals that it represents
and that what you want to commit yourself to. It’s the only way I can explain why in a
period when turn over in college presidency the turn over in chief student affairs offices
which exceeds the turn over in presidents. Why do we have such stability and I think it
has to do with the nature of Marist College.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
22
J.A.
If you could give any advice to future students at Marist College what would it
be?
G.C.
Oh, I think that the advice that needs to be giving to every student is to try to take
advantage of every day that they’re here. The opportunities that are given to them are to
make discoveries about themselves and about the world around them are extraordinary.
That’s one of the things that has changed with the years, certainly the technology that we
have today makes learning such a wonderful journey, where so many opportunities for
easily having access to information that a generation or two ago had to work much harder
at finding ways to uncover that information. I’m one who is very nostalgic about stacks in
libraries of old. The smells of them, the atmosphere, the texture, the joy of discovering
something on the shelf as you brose I think that’s all a very important part of the learning
experience but I have developed an appreciation for being able to turn on the switch and
have a screen light up and being able to excess information in a matter of seconds. When
I was an undergraduate it may have taken months to find that information.
J.A.
That’s amazing, truly a dramatic change.
G.C.
I’m not sure the sense of discovery is the same. I don’t think it is I think the thrill
of discovery was greater then, but because the thrill was greater I’m not sure it’s better.
It’s certainly not as efficient [Laughter]
J.A.
It’s interesting, I think it’s in the past that you had to watch things you had to put
into, do the research was I think the reward in discovering was much more satisfying.
G.C.
See I think one of the changes that has taken place as a result of the educational
experience for my generation your education left you with the confidence to make
decisions. I think for the person who is getting there education today one of the
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
23
differences, the difference it might be, the person may feel less confident but if the
individual knows how to access information and remembered before making a decision
why he wanted it to be an informed decision and I will retrieve the information before
making the decision. Then that person is going to contribute more to our way of life. I
think in the person who just develops confidence in making his or her own decisions.
J.A.
I think we’ll wrap it up right there. Thank you very much.
G.C.
Thank you John.
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
1
Gerald Cox # II
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York
Transcribed by Mary Ellen Lent
For the Marist College Archives and Special Collections
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
2
Interviewee:
Gerald Cox
Interviewer:
John Ansley
Interview Date:
February twenty-fifth-thousand two
Location:
Gerald Cox’s office in the Student Center
CD No:
19
Topic:
Marist College History
See Also:
MHP – Oral History
Subject Headings:
Cox, Gerald
Marist Brothers – United States – History
Marist College – History
Marist College – (Poughkeepsie, New York)
Marist College – Social Aspects
Comments:
Gerald Cox discusses the mission of the Marist Brothers as well as
the history of the Marist Brothers.
Summary:
Gerald Cox recalls his early days on the campus and some of the
original buildings. He tells about his life as a Student Brother and also about his college
life. He also discusses the construction of new buildings and the growth in faculty and
staff as well as the introduction of lay students. Gerald recalls his days as professor, dean
of students and also reflects on former Brother Paul Ambrose also Linus Richard Foy and
Dennis Murray as presidents.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
3
Transcript -Gerald Cox- Interview # 2
“Beginning of interview: John Ansley:
This is an interview conducted with Jerry
Cox, Director of the theater program and English Professor we are in his office in the
Student Center at Marist College campus, the date is February 25
th
, 2002 in the morning,
the interviewer is John Ansley.
John Ansley:
In your previous interview you discussed the development of Marist
College today I would like to ask you about what life was like on this campus first as a
student then as an Administrator and Professor. If you would help to put things in
prospective for current Marist students would you briefly discuss the mission of the
Marist Brothers and the history of the order?
Gerald Cox:
I would be glad to John; I would say that the mission of the Marist
Brothers was really to educate young men and women primarily the impoverished. And
this the order dedicated to a great deal of fervor and it spread throughout the Western
Hemisphere and the Orient in terms of missions as the order itself was growing
throughout Europe. The growth of the order was quite amazing and I think in the United
States it was below working class that most of the Brothers schools where directed
toward or where founded in communities of the middle class working families. That was
true throughout New England and certainly in New York City and at other points that
developed later all that seemed to hold true.
J.A.
When did you first come to Marist College?
G.C.
I came to Marist College for the first time as a visitor in the late forties. But I
came here as a student in nineteen fifty-two.
J.A.
Was your first visit to get a feel for what the life would be like for you?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
4
G.C.
Yes.
J.A.
Was the college Marist College at that point or was it Marian College?
G.C.
It was Marian College.
J.A.
Do you know why it was named Marian College and why the name changed?
G.C.
Well, Marian College according to Brother Paul Ambrose who was the principal
architect although not the first president of the college. He said that the name Marian was
chosen to be a combination of the two names of Mary and Ann. Certainly, Mary and the
role that she played in the life of Marist Brothers who originally had the first title of the
Marist Brothers which was the Little Brothers of Mary before they became the Marist
Brothers at the schools. And St. Ann has been the patroness of the province of it’s first
founded in the United States.
J.A.
Okay and how many students where present at the time when you arrived at the
college?
G.C.
My recollection is that when my class arrived we pushed the capacity of the
college close to one hundred and fifty.
J.A.
And how many Brothers?
G.C.
All where Brothers.
J.A.
So one hundred and fifty.
G.C.
That would be close to one hundred and fifty Student Brothers and there would be
an additional maybe fifteen who where on staff.
J.A.
Okay and what where your duties when you first began your studies at Marist?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
5
G.C.
Well your primarily duty was to be a student and to get as much as you could
from your classes. But we all did have our other jobs and in my previous training centers
that I was at I always seemed to wound up being the librarian.
J.A.
Really.
G.C.
Yes [Laughter]
J.A.
That’s a good job. [Laughter]
G.C.
Yes, a good job, I said to myself there’s always a future for librarians. [Laughter]
But then at one point in time I stated that I had really worked enough with books couldn’t
I do something different and I was assigned to what we refer to humorously as the
painters union. So we began painting, I began painting with two or three others Brothers
and we would do everything from trims on windows, on exterior of buildings to
repainting interior rooms
and then of course when the building of the chapel came we had
primarily a very important job which was to do all of the woodwork in the chapel.
J.A.
Yes, that’s beautiful I imagine that took quite some time.
G.C.
It did.
J.A.
I’ll jump ahead a little bit since you mentioned the chapel was that an unusual
design at the time?
G.C.
It was- it was thought of as being quite a bit ahead of it’s time. The locating of the
chapel the altar in the middle of the chapel and having the community around it. It
seemed to be especially correct or fitting for us as a community to gather around the altar
in that fashion. Especially since Marcellin Champagnat formed the first places the
Brothers could be found beside the altar.
J.A.
Where did you live, did you have a dorm?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
6
G.C.
Yes, in the mansion what had been part of the MacPherson estate over to the north
of Waterworks Road just beyond what had been the outdoor swimming pool which is
now the basement of Lowell Thomas and Dyson. [Laughter] If there where problems we
know why. Because that pool was fed by natural springs that where making there way
down the mountain side toward the river. In that building I lived in St. Michael’s
dormitory which was not part, it was attached to the original building but was really an
addition that had been build on to the building. My bed was located directly under the fire
alarms for the building [Laughter] and the fire alarm was used for waking us up in the
morning. I had never had trouble hearing the alarm until after spending two years under
the fire alarm and there after to this day any normal alarm clock seems not to make
enough noise to wake me up. [Laughter]
J.A.
I can imagine that’s kind of a step down after that. Was the main part of the
building St. Ann’s Hermitage or was it renamed that by the Brothers?
G.C.
Yes.
J.A.
Okay that’s the story and that was eventually torn down?
G.C.
Eventually it burned down.
J.A.
Okay.
G.C.
It was one of those mysterious fires.
J.A.
Oh I see. [Laughter]
G.C.
You’re not quite sure how it started but no one was in the building.
J.A.
That’s good, Okay did you share one large room with several other Brothers?
G.C.
Oh yes, this St. Michael’s dormitory was one of the smaller rooms we had ten, ten
of us where in that room.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
7
J.A.
Okay what did you do in free time did you play sports, listen to music?
G.C.
I don’t think we had free time to tell you the truth. Are schedule are daily
schedule was very -very tightly constructed so between religious services, attending
class, doing your employment you had some type of weekly or bi-weekly assignments
that might be serving tables, it might be washing dishes, it might be taking care of the
bathrooms, sweeping the dormitories. You had an assignment that worked into the early
morning hours that was before you ever went to class and then to the special assignments
that we got, the construction once the building programs. That’s very little time for free
time but when we did have and probably what was most constant was an evening
recreation period. I remember during the evening recreation period if we decided to put
on a play or I had been asked to put on a play for a holiday or a holy day that was coming
up and the community was going to celebrate that occasion and this would be part of that
celebration we would normally be rehearsing during the evening recreation hour.
J.A.
So what was a typical day for you when did you get up and when did you go to
bed was it, it sounds like it was very highly structured?
G.C.
Yes, I would say that I have memory – but it may fail me a bit, I think we got up
at about five thirty and we where probably in bed by ten thirty at night.
J.A.
Okay and work in classes or in between. I heard a couple of stories of students
being pulled out of class if a construction project was going on. Did that ever happen to
you?
G.C.
Yes, and I would say that I don’t think that it was an arbitrary pulling up we were
assigned we took turns and when it was your turn you might be assigned for a two week
period to work either on construction somewhere here on campus or there was building
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
8
program also going on in Esopus, New York at the Marist Preparatory. You might be
shipped over there for two weeks to help with the construction work. But you were, it
was clear to you that you where going to held responsible for all the classes that you
missed so you had to rely upon the good will of your confreres that they where going to
take good notes and they would tutor you in getting the work done. And my recollections
is that you where not excused from assignments that where given you still had to get the
assignments done by whatever the assigned deadline was.
J.A.
When you where a Student Brother where there still gardens and bee hives and
live stock on campus?
G.C.
Yes, we had no need for lawn mowers the sheep took care of cutting the grass.
[Laughter] And we had some pigs, we had cows, we had chickens and we certainly had
bee hives yes.
J.A.
Did you ever sell any of the live stock or vegetables or honey to outside members
of the community?
G.C.
That was going on but I was never directly involved with any of those sales. I had
no contact with the outside community.
J.A.
Okay so no part of the egg run? [Laughter]
G.C.
No, part of the egg run or the honey run. [Laughter]
J.A.
Did outside members of the community visit the campus often or was it just
merely for some business transactions picking up eggs or honey?
G.C.
No, we did not have much by way of visitors from the outside community coming
to campus. If there was reason for them to come the chances are that we were tided up
doing something and we wouldn’t have gotten to see them anyhow.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
9
J.A.
Was there any interaction between the Marist Brothers and any other religious
orders in the area?
G.C.
Not much that I can recall but we did have contact on special religious holidays or
occasions yes and we did have priests who came down from St. Andrews from the Jesuits
Seminary which was right up the road where the Culinary Institute now is. Sometimes
we had interaction with the Redemptorists over in Esopus but there was no large scale
involved in this.
J.A.
Let’s see now, I imagine that taking the mission of the Marist Brothers into
account that you where doing quite a bit of out reach to the surrounding community?
G.C.
No, I would say that, see during that decade of the nineteen fifties the outreach
began to occur much more in the sixties. I think in the fifties things where much more
encapsulated. We had not yet taken down the walls that ran along Route 9 that separated
the Marist Brothers from the community. I think many of the people in the community
they knew the Marist Brothers where here but it was something of a mystery, the walls
separated us.
J.A.
So the Brothers where being educated as teachers and then sent out so it was more
of the outreach to the broader community around the world.
G.C.
Its strange phenomenon to place although we where somewhat isolated from the
community immediately surrounding us when I talk about the hundred and fifty
undergraduates students who where here Student Brothers it was an increditably diverse
group of students. At the time that I was here we had Student Brothers not only those
who where American, we had Canadians, Chinese we had Spaniards we had Portuguese
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
10
from Brazil we had Mexicans we had Philippines and we had our
first Africans from
Malawi.
J.A.
That’s very interesting was taking or learning another language was that a
requirement since you, did you know if you where going to be sent aboard?
G.C.
No, on one knew whether they would be sent aboard, they where being trained
primarily to work in the United States. Now some of the international Student Brothers
who came, one of the reasons for there coming to college here was to become more
proficient in English. Many of them had been kind of spotted as potential leaders for the
Marist Brothers in there country and there superiors thought it was important that they be
fluent in English. I would say that our study of foreign languages although it was part of
the curriculum, you had foreign language requirements was never approached from the
point of view that we might need that language for our work other than teaching foreign
languages.
J.A.
Let’s see moving on a little bit, when did you graduate?
G.C.
I graduated in nineteen fifty-six.
J.A.
Okay do you remember how many students where in your graduating class?
G.C.
I think there where thirty to thirty five students.
J.A.
Okay.
G.C.
But I did not attend the ceremony with the class in fifty-six, you see my class I
should have graduated in fifty-five, but in the summer of fifty-five the summer of fifty-
four rather there was a shortage of teachers and I volunteered to go teaching early. So I
had one just about a year of college remaining to be done and I indicated to Brother Paul
that I was not bothered by the prospect of going out early although I would appreciate
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
11
being able to stay and finish the degree. Some may have thought that I had ulterior
motives because virtually everyone in my class went out teaching early or wound up
spending a year in the tailor shop or in the laundry or cooking. Since I have not done any
of those things yet if I had stayed in my senior year and finished the odds where pretty
good I would have wound up tailoring or cooking for a year. So I had altered that by
going out teaching a year early and took a year what we call extension courses, where
faculty came down to New York City and we would go to them and take classes on the
week ends and in the summers to finish. So I wound up receiving my actual diploma
from Brother Paul Ambrose in the kitchen of Marist Preparatory in Esopus. [Laughter]
Where I was going into the kitchen I heard someone call my name and I turned around
and something had been throw at me and from across the room I caught my degree.
J.A.
Not your typical ceremony, [Laughter] it’s a little unusual, when you first arrived
on the Marist Campus as a Student Brother do you remember how many buildings there
where?
G.C.
When, there was St. Mary’s which was the home of the Marian Library we had a
collection of Mariology that was kept in St. Mary’s building. And there was an annex, a
one story building the side which is now where the Sheehan Parking Lot is, that was a
one story building and that’s where the honey was kept. And we had Greystone the
Marian Building which no longer stands, the Gate House, St. Peter’s, St. Ann’s
Hermitage, the old MacPherson building and the barns. That was about it.
J.A.
Oh, so you’ve seem some extensive changes and building on campus. Did you
have a favorite building that’s still standing or was there one that was torn down?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
12
G.C.
I would say probably of all the buildings the chapel which I worked most
extendedly on was probably my favorite building. Probably more memories are
associated with that building than with any of the other buildings.
J.A.
Didn’t that used to be connected to the old Fontaine where the library, where the
new library stands now.
G.C.
Yes, right and the old Fontaine was connected to the Marian Building which ran
between the old gymnasium or part of Marian Hall and the library.
J.A.
And in what function did the old Fontaine Hall serve?
G.C.
The old Fontaine Hall was build originally as a dormitory for the Student
Brothers.
J.A.
And then they would be able to attend services being connected.
G.C.
In the chapel and it was also connected to the Marian Building which was a major
classroom building for the Student Brothers.
J.A.
I see, okay that’s interesting, I didn’t realize that.
G.C.
I know how difficult it is and how confusing it can become because depending
upon what years many of these buildings where used for different purposes. So
depending upon what traffic required what was a classroom building one year could be
something else the next year.
J.A.
And the brothers did the majority of the construction when you where a student
which you talked about a little before where you helped with the chapel. But all the new
construction at the time was done by the Brothers or the Student Brothers?
G.C.
Yes, the Student Brothers or Brothers from the outside communities who came on
week-ends or on holidays or in the summer time to help with the construction.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
13
J.A.
Why do you think the construction by the Brothers ultimately stopped and was
under taken by contractors?
G.C.
The complexity of the construction was one reason and then the need for speedier
construction. See we learned that as novices at the construction business we really knew
very little so everything was done once upon the wrong way to do something and then it
was done a second time to do it the right way. [Laughter] So we did everything twice
nothing was done the first time and it was correct the first time told you how not to do it.
J.A.
That’s interesting so you didn’t necessary have a background in construction you
just learned as you went? [Laughter]
G.C.
Oh, no- no [Laughter] no one had any construction background we began to pride
yourselves on depending upon where we were in training the various training centers we
may have to one class in three different locations helped put up buildings. So people
acquired some skills but these where not union skills these where apprentice skills.
J.A.
And was Nilus Donnelly in charge?
G.C.
Oh, yes he was he was our
lord and master
and when you were assigned to the
construction gang he was your boss.
J.A.
I’ve seen a few pictures of him operating cranes and bulldozers and backhoes, one
that sticks out in my mind is of the chapel and the steeple being placed on chapel were
you present went that was being done?
G.C.
In fact, I was literally present and on the grounds when that picture was taken.
J.A.
Didn’t they run into a problem where the crane wasn’t quite long enough to
accommodate?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
14
G.C
Oh, I mean you name a problem and we had it [Laughter] I mean if you think that
chapel and the points in which the walls met and its shape of the building. Where the
walls met is solid poured concrete alright several feet thick and the very first joint that we
poured was off its mark. So this solid concrete mass had to be taken down and first we
tried with jackhammers and that’s what that was like trying to jackhammer this concrete,
sledge hammers and then they actually contemplated using dynamite. [Laughter]
J.A.
So it wasn’t a smooth process then for the chapel.
G.C.
No, no one was ever disappointed when something didn’t come out right the first
time also it became pretty much the rule of thumb. [Laughter]
J.A.
Didn’t question it after a while.
G.C.
Right.
J.A.
You talk about, you mention that there was a pool on campus, would you tell me a
little more about that.
G.C.
Well just north of Waterworks Road was this beautiful low laying area that tended
to be very moist because it was fed by natural springs and when they excavated they
found that could be a beautiful lake and that lake could be converted into a natural
swimming pool. And that’s exactly what they did do and it served the Student Brothers
and as the college began to grow and change and more lay people where involved with
the faculty and more lay students everyone began to use, everyone in the Marist
Community began to use the pool. And there was a period in its last years when you
would frequently find many young mothers, wife’s of faculty or staff over there during
the day with there little children around the pool. So it became a really a gathering place
for the entire Marist Community the way it had originally served the purpose for the
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
15
Brothers themselves when they were the only ones here. The Brothers used it both in the
summer and in the winter, in the winter they would freeze it and we would play hockey.
J.A.
Oh, that’s fun, now was there a dramatic change in life on campus with the
increase of lay students?
G.C.
Not initially I think what happened is the advent of lay students comes around
fifty-eight and as we move into the sixties we begin to get the impact of Vatican II and I
think that Vatican II had much more to do with the changes that occurred here then
perhaps the arrival of the lay students. Students are students and initially there was some
concern about you know to what extent should a lay student and the Student Brothers
mix. And it was like trying to keep your finger in the dike. I mean they were young
people who had much in common that were attending classes together and there was no
way in which you were going to keep them separate. Nor was there good reason to keep
them separate.
J.A.
Was there any concern with the introduction of female students?
G.C.
That was a much bigger debate the arrival of the acceptance of women in the
college. Which probably accounts for one of the opportunities which we did miss in the
late sixties which was the offer to take over St. Francis Hospital’s nursing program. And
faculty voted not to because it would mean introducing women to the day classes, women
had been accepted into the evening division but not in day classes and within two years
that decision was reversed and women would be allowed into day session but at that point
we had missed the opportunity to transfer the school of nursing here.
J.A.
How early on were lay students living on campus? Did they have dorms
immediately?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
16
G.C.
The very first dormitory for the lay students was Donnelly, was the basement of
Donnelly.
J.A.
Okay so that’s got to create some changes so the dormitory, wasn’t the library in
there at one point as well?
G.C.
The library was in Donnelly also, yes. And the gathering place for the commuter
lay students was Adrian Hall that was called Commuter Student Center.
J.A.
So Donnelly Hall must have really been the center of campus.
G.C.
Yes, a great deal of the activity at campus took place in Donnelly Hall at the time
that Donnelly Hall was finished. Although I probably should never use the word finished
because it seems like no building is ever finished, they keep changing.
J.A.
That had a major addition as well didn’t it; with Donnelly didn’t they enclose part
of it?
G.C.
Well in the nineties we, to complete interior and exterior renovations, so the
building is left with very much the exterior design of the original but the interior is pretty
much completely redone.
J.A.
Okay I was a little unclear on what exactly had been done so that’s interesting.
Where you a student on campus or where you back as Administrator when the transfer of
control from the Marist Brothers to the Marist College Education Cooperation took over?
G.C.
Yes, I was back on staff then.
J.A.
You where on staff okay what was your reaction to that in general and did you
have strong feelings at the time?
G.C.
See again when we’re taking, yes I did have strong feelings because of my times
both to the Marist Brothers and to the college. And in was a period the nineteen-sixties
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
17
were a period of frequent significant changes taking place and in many ways the transfer
fell into the category of just another one of this decades significant changes. The college
had begun to grow and develop and it was clear that the growth was going to continue, it
was putting a great deal of pressure on the Marist Brothers in terms of personal and
financing. And for the sake of there other schools they felt they really had to limit there
commitment to the college and then looking at the models that came in to evolve and
other Catholic Colleges it seemed wise to make the change and to make that transfer. And
hope to find the appropriate means to continue the mission of the Marist Brothers at the
college without holding on to the ownership of it.
J.A.
Now then during that occurred in nineteen sixty-eight?
G.C.
Sixty-eight, I had returned here in sixty-seven.
J.A.
And as Dean of Students?
G.C.
No I had returned as a full time faculty member.
J.A.
Full time faculty member okay. So what classes where you teaching at that point?
G.C.
At that point I was teaching Voices of Protest a topical sixties course [Laughter]
and that was really a course in American Public Address. I was teaching the basis
Literature Course that was required of all the students and I was teaching one or two
other courses at the moment I don’t remember.
J.A.
That’s quite a load, is that typical to teach four courses per semester?
G.C.
In those days it was not “A” typical [Laughter] we were young and we were
ambitious and curriculums change every thing was in flux.
J.A.
So you probably have quite a number of different courses that you have taught?
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
18
G.C.
Yes, I know at the time that I was being considered for tenure I mean in the
nineteen seventies. At that point I had already taught about twenty different courses from
sixty-seven to the point of the tenure review in the seventies.
J.A.
That’s remarkable
G.C.
Yes, yes it is [Laughter]
J.A.
This is just a question to try to give current students some idea of how the campus
was set up, did the faculty have offices in one location or did you get bounced around
quite a bit if you had a single office or did you have multiple offices?
G.C.
We where scattered, we where scattered around the campus. By sixty-nine I had
become involved with doing some Administrative work so I tended to use my
Administrative job as the foundation for getting my office more so than my faculty status
where I was very junior faculty member at that point in time. But I mean my office for
example from the most early years I had an office in the basement of Donnelly then I
moved to an office in the old Fontaine from Fontaine to Greystone, the basement of
Greystone. So I mean you name the building there where offices in it that could be used.
J.A.
Okay has the change in growth on campus affected the Marist ideals?
G.C.
The change in growth, growth of?
J.A.
Of the size of the campus of the student body?
G.C.
No, I would say, I think the Marist ideals have been one of the constants through
all the changes that where going on, just as I have described my feelings about the under-
graduate that we have. After all the changes than occurred we still have very much, we
still attract the same type of student to the institution. And I think part of the attraction
has something to do with those Marist ideals.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
19
J.A.
Yes, I’ve been impressed with the students here, they have always been very
eager to help out if they can, welcome any person on campus; it’s nice when I started
here.
G.C.
It seems to be a good fit the type of student we attract and the ideals that we
espouse.
J.A.
I see what do you envision for the future of Marist College?
G.C.
Well I think Marist College is at one of its turning points, it’s at a fork in the road
and it’s a very important moment in time for the college. I say that because I think that
large significant number of what we might think of as early generation faculty who are
now at retirement age and I think with there exodus they where so imbued with the
Marist ideals. And seem to fill so many positions of leadership in carrying those ideals
forward I think the question now, who’s going to pick up the torch which faculty leaders,
which administrators will fill those positions in the future?
J.A.
Okay you don’t have to answer this question if you don’t want to but since Marist
College has had three very influential presidents, Brother Paul Ambrose Fontaine, Dr.
Linus Richard Foy and our current president Dr. Dennis J. Murray if you would, how do
you feel that there styles of leadership have differed?
G.C.
I think there three very different individuals and each one was a good man a great
man for his moment in time. Brother Paul when he first came here in the forties was a
young ambitious visionary whose able to see the potential and Lord knows with the little
bit that was here it really took some imagination to foresee what was possible. And he
went about making things happen; at the moment in time that he left and Richard Foy
came in Richard came in as the youngest president in the United States as a college
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
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president. And with his brilliant mind, his mathematical acumen, his logic, he was able
to put together plans for the expansion of the college. But build upon and dovetailed very
nicely what Brother Paul had done in the points which Paul Ambrose era had taken us.
And it didn’t mean calling for significant changes, it did mean the acceptance of the lay
students, it did mean changing the college name, it did mean the admission of women, it
did mean the transfer of the Brother’s ownership of the college to the private cooperation.
These where very major, very significant changes that he had not only the vision to see
the importance of but he had the courage to bring about.
J.A.
Yes, I thought it was especially interesting after the college was transferred to
educational cooperation that he stayed on as president and continued with almost other
ten years.
G.C.
That’s right another ten years, yes.
J.A.
So it’s interesting, are there any topics that we failed to cover in these two
interviews?
G.C.
Well probably I should say sometime about our current president I talked about
Brother Paul and Richie Foy I would like to talk about Dennis Murray. And of course my
role in Administration really coincides with his tenure as president; he became president
in seventy-nine and it was in seventy-nine that I became Dean of Students and eventually
the Vice President of Student Affairs. So I had the pleasure of working with him all of
those years in a rather high level administrative position and I was able to witness the
evolution of its own vision and it was incredible to watch. The first period which would
be a period of assessments his coming here and assessing who and what we where, seeing
the potential of that for students who would come to this institution. And then being able
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
21
to translate that vision to very specific concrete things such as buildings, the kind of
buildings we put up rather we’re taking about resident halls or renovations of McCann
Center or a new library. It was always done with the students in mind what will the
outcome be, how will it benefit the students, how will it make it possible for us to make
additional progress for the future. So I would have to say I really feel myself very
fortunate in having had close contact with all three of those men, Paul Ambrose, Richard
Foy and Dennis Murray and each one had different things to teach me just as each one
made different contributions to the evolution of the college.
J.A.
It’s interesting that we...three presidents really where at the college for such a
long time, do you have any insights in to why they may have stayed on so long, was it
usual for a college president to stay for five or seven years and then move on?
G.C.
No, I think it’s a good question John, the only answer I will be able to come up
with because I heard each of these individual as well as I remember myself saying when I
first came here. Maybe five or six years and then I’ll move on I think part of the mystic
of Marist is that it is not a place to work it’s a place to live and you get caught up in
living your life and this is part of your life. And it’s not that you don’t have choices
because I think each of us had offers to go other places but you’ve decided that you’ve
made a commitment to this place to this institution and to those ideals that it represents
and that what you want to commit yourself to. It’s the only way I can explain why in a
period when turn over in college presidency the turn over in chief student affairs offices
which exceeds the turn over in presidents. Why do we have such stability and I think it
has to do with the nature of Marist College.
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
22
J.A.
If you could give any advice to future students at Marist College what would it
be?
G.C.
Oh, I think that the advice that needs to be giving to every student is to try to take
advantage of every day that they’re here. The opportunities that are given to them are to
make discoveries about themselves and about the world around them are extraordinary.
That’s one of the things that has changed with the years, certainly the technology that we
have today makes learning such a wonderful journey, where so many opportunities for
easily having access to information that a generation or two ago had to work much harder
at finding ways to uncover that information. I’m one who is very nostalgic about stacks in
libraries of old. The smells of them, the atmosphere, the texture, the joy of discovering
something on the shelf as you brose I think that’s all a very important part of the learning
experience but I have developed an appreciation for being able to turn on the switch and
have a screen light up and being able to excess information in a matter of seconds. When
I was an undergraduate it may have taken months to find that information.
J.A.
That’s amazing, truly a dramatic change.
G.C.
I’m not sure the sense of discovery is the same. I don’t think it is I think the thrill
of discovery was greater then, but because the thrill was greater I’m not sure it’s better.
It’s certainly not as efficient [Laughter]
J.A.
It’s interesting, I think it’s in the past that you had to watch things you had to put
into, do the research was I think the reward in discovering was much more satisfying.
G.C.
See I think one of the changes that has taken place as a result of the educational
experience for my generation your education left you with the confidence to make
decisions. I think for the person who is getting there education today one of the
Interviewee: Gerald Cox
February 25, 2002
Interviewer: John Ansley
MHP
23
differences, the difference it might be, the person may feel less confident but if the
individual knows how to access information and remembered before making a decision
why he wanted it to be an informed decision and I will retrieve the information before
making the decision. Then that person is going to contribute more to our way of life. I
think in the person who just develops confidence in making his or her own decisions.
J.A.
I think we’ll wrap it up right there. Thank you very much.
G.C.
Thank you John.
