Brother John Klein Oral History Transcript
Media
Part of Brother John Klein
content
Brother John Klein
Marist College Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Michael Orsini
For the Marist Archives and Special Collections
Brother John Klein
Transcript – Brother John Klein
Interviewee: Brother John Klein
Interviewer: Gus Nolan, Jan Stivers
Interview Date: May 25, 2022
Location: Marist Archives and Special Collections
Topic: Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Marist College--Administration Marist College--History
Marist Brother--United States--History Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Marist College--Social Aspects
Summary:
In this interview, Marist alum and Board of Trustees member, Brother John Klein,
discusses his early career and longstanding connection to Marist College. During the interview he
discusses the virtues of the College, the challenges it faces, and what the future holds for Marist.
Brother John Klein
(
00:00
)
Gus Nolan
: It's the Wednesday before Ascension Thursday in the liturgical year. We are
introducing to our archives the recordings of John Klein. He is going to tell us about his career as a
Marist Brother and also his contributions to Marist College, specifically o
n being a member of the
Board of Trustees. With that, John, let's return to our discussion. We finished, we had finished talking
about your research, your doctoral degree and completing your work as a muckraker or something in
the terms--. [Laughter]
(00:49)
Jan Stivers
: Well, also a high school teacher! [Laughter]
(
00:51
)
John Klein
: That’s right.
(
00:52
)
GN
: So, let's pick it up from there. Were you teaching? When did you stop teaching?
(
01:02
)
JK
: Well, what happened is that, in 1980, I received my doctorate. I was assistant principal at
Marist High School in Bayonne, New Jersey. I was asked to return to archbishop one as the assistant
principal for academics. I did teach American History one year while doing that job, but in a school of
1,650 boys, the academic assistant principal really needed to be a full-time position. I loved the work,
learned a great deal, and was fortunate again in my career to have brothers, in particular, who were
great mentors to me. In this case, it was Brother James Moore, who was the principal, and I was the
assistant principal. And after six years, the provincial and provincial counsel asked me to become the
principal at Archbishop Molloy. And at that time, we had a province policy that the principal could not
stay more than six years.
(
02:19
)
JK
: You may recall, Gus. It was two, three-year terms. That was the maximum time. It was a
great time for me. I really enjoyed it. I loved the students. Students used to say that I knew everybody's
name, but I didn't. But I knew 1200! [Laughter] I knew 1200
kids, by first name and a little bit about
them.
(
02:46
)
JS
: You mean sophomores, juniors, and seniors?
(
02:48
)
JK
: And freshmen. All the way through. Some I just never really got to know the names. And if I
can just share why I thought it was important to know the names. It was a lesson I'd learned my first
day of teaching. I was at St. Helena's. I was so nervous. We were all sent out from the College a year
early without degrees. This was counting as our student teaching. I had never taught a class before
and I'm walking with a brother from the brother's residence to the school building. And there was a
little garden area. Remember the circle, in front of the brother's house? And a brother pointed out a
student to me, and he said, “you see that kid over there? He's the wildest kid in the school.” And I
remember, and I don't mind saying his name, Willard Varian. He said, “he's so wild. He used to smoke
as a sophomore in religion class!” [Laughter] That made me more nervous because I knew from my
class list, he was in the first period that I was going to teach! [Laughter] So the school building at St.
Helena's was built
prior to the Civil War. Essentially, the way you got from one floor to the other, was
an outdoor fire escape.
(04:14)
GN
: Oh, geez.
(04:16)
JK
: And my class was on the fifth floor in the corner. So I walked up the fire escape. I get into
the classroom. It was shortened periods the first day. I'm at my desk, nervous. The students are
coming in, and I look and I see Willard Varian sitting in the second to the last seat in the row next to
the windows. And he turned and he made a comment to a student. And I looked up and I said, ‘Mr.
Varian, turn around in your seat.’ And I heard a student off to the side said, “oh no! He knows our
names!” [Laughter] I knew the name of one student in that entire school. Well, I want to say Willard
Varian was a wonderful young man. People didn't know [him]. And, I got to know him. He had a pretty
tough, growing up and took a lot of responsibility for his family. And up until recently, I've been in
touch for fi
fty years with Willard Varian, who became a wonderful student, became a master sergeant
in the Marine Corps, and was an officer in the New York State Troopers. And I learned there, if you
know somebody's name, you're saying to them, you're important to me. And I hoped, a little bit by
example, I was showing that to other faculty and staff members at the school. But I worked very hard
to get to know their names and it showed that they were important. And it was a great time at Malloy, I
think we did a number of wonderful things. And it was at that time, the school was named a Blue
Ribbon School by the Federal Department of Education. And I had the opportunity of going down and
receiving the award from President Reagan. At the convocation, I was asked to give this speech on
behalf of all the principals of the schools that were cited. So it was a great experience.
(
06:40
)
GN:
You should write that story up, record it publicly and send it, never mind selling it, send it
to all the new teachers that are coming out, you know? The first step towards making it; is knowing the
people you're dealing with.
(
06:56
)
JS
: And I think it's a theme that I hope would come back to, this idea that I have heard you
express before, about the essential need for community. The essential Marist charism of establishing
community. And how do you do that? The first way is to learn their names.
(
07:18
)
JK
: Learn their names and show that they're important. If I can just jump ahead a little bit, I'll
tell you, I had the very good fortune of being on the most recent presidential search committee that
led to the hiring of Kevin Weinman. I learned a lot throug
h that process. It was difficult. It was many
months of hard work, but I got to know a number of staff and faculty members here at Marist.
Listening to them, and now I consider them friends. I go out with them, like for lunch and things. In so
many ways, these people still embody the charism of the Marist Brothers and their concern for
students. It's really remarkable to me. So that's just jumping ahead a little bit.
(
08:14
)
GN:
Yeah. That kind of leads us where we want to go, to where we are now. What about Marist
tod
ay? What would you say about Marist today? It's different from when you were here.
(
08:28
)
JK
: Oh, it's different.
(
08:29
)
GN:
So we’re saying, ‘okay, in what ways are it different?’ Let's look at the positive aspects of
it? What are some of the, three or four of the things that's made Marist, mature, develop, at present.
You would say--?
(
08:48
)
JK
: Well, I'll give a little segue into my answer to your question, if that's okay, because when I
finished my term as principal of Molloy, I thought I was coming to Marist College. I had actually
applied for a teaching position here at Marist. And what very few people know, I didn't get an interview
when I applied. And one administrator--I was surprised that I, at least, wasn't called for an interview--
and an administrator told me, “well, you know, hiring is kind of a capricious process.” I remember the
adjective that was used. So I was talking to Dennis Murray a little bit, and my plan was, even if I didn't
get the teaching position, I believed my future was at Marist College. I was in preliminary conversation
with Dennis of maybe working with him, but it never got further than a preliminary conversation
because--.
(
09:52
)
JS
: What year was this?
(
09:53
)
JK
: That would've been in 1986. No, 1992.
(
10:00
)
JS
: ‘92.
(
10:03
)
GN:
‘92, yeah. He has been here a number of years now. He came in ‘78, I guess. So he's here
twelve years, so far. Got it.
(
10:08
)
JK
: That's correct. But I never got to come to Marist College because the Marist Brothers in our
province of Esopus intervened and I was elected provincial. So that was
the first of four different
terms as provincial. But in 2004, I had actually become provincial once again as a new province of the
United States of America. And at that point, Dennis Murray invited me to join the Board of Trustees. So
I've been on the boar
d from 2004 until 2009; I had to leave the board because I was elected to the
General Counsel of the Marist Brothers of Rome. The superior general, even though I asked, ‘please,
let me stay on the Marist College Board, it is the one thing I really value so much,’ he said “no.” So I left
the board. And when I finished at the General Council in 2013, Dennis Murray and Ellen Hancock
invited me to return to the board. I have the distinction, I put in quotes, of being the only trustee that
had been on the board, left the board, and was invited to return to the board! [Laughter] and I've been
on the board ever since. So that's a little background, but to get more germane to your question, in
looking at the college, I really only see positive things. And what are the positive things? One is--
primarily because of Dennis and, I would say, Marilyn as well because I think she probably hasn't
received sufficient credit for the impact that she has had on the college
--that they maintained the
values that really started wi
th Brother Zephiriny, when he first purchased the property here, and the
early brothers. [They] maintained the Marist Brothers philosophy and tradition and charism, here at
the college. I think we were fortunate because for many years we had a good core group of brothers
and former brothers, who were here on the campus, and they maintained that as well. I think the
challenge moving forward is how do you be true to the founding principles and values of the college in
a very different, changing world and real
ity here. Here, as the number of Marist Brothers on the
campus has been diminished. We are fortunate to have the novitiate here, a number of brothers
around, and brothers on the board. So, I think that's one of the big challenges. I think it's one of the
strengths of the college and I remember saying at a recent board meeting that I think the biggest
challenge of the college moving forward is answering the question of ‘what does Marist College want
to be as it moves forward into the next five and ten years?
What type of place do we want to be? How
do we want to define the College?’ It is the critical issue for the future of the college, I think.
(
13:57
)
JS
: How would you want that question answered?
(
14:00
)
JK
: I think, I think the question has to be answered on a number of levels. I think first the
trustees have to really grapple with that question: what do we want to be and what do we hope the
college will be? And this coming September, I think September 23rd, if I remember correctly, the
trustees are going to begin a two-day process of some strategic planning, a strategic planning retreat.
And that, I think, is a core question. My fear for the college is that if we're just another good, solid
liberal arts Northeast institution, we're not gonna have a strong future. I know that technically we are
not a Catholic college. For years we said we were an independent college in the Catholic and Marist
Brothers tradition. Now, the wording has changed a bit, but many of the students who are here, when
they're asked in a survey by the campus ministry office [for their] religious affiliation, high sixty to
seventy percent would say they're Roman Catholic, whatever that means in today's world. So, I think
we have this--. I'm not advocating that we become an explicitly Catholic university, but I think we have
to look at the Catholic and the Marist Brothers values and tradition as the fundamental underpinnings
of the College. And how do we translate that [to] today?
(
16:00
)
GN:
I’ll just interject a thought here, and that is, I asked Richard LaMorte at one time, ‘are we a
Catholic college?’ And he put the question this way: If seventy-
five percent of the college was black,
would you say it's a black college? If seventy-
five perce
nt was Jewish, would you say it's a Jewish
college? Well, we have more than seventy-
five percent Catholic students here. And in that sense,
that's the abiding presence. It's more Catholic than Notre Dame in terms of student body.
(
16:34
)
JK
: Well, it's--.
(
16:35
)
GN:
But still, go ahead.
(
16:36
)
JK
: Well, I would agree with you. For example, a few years ago, I had a meeting with Father
Harrington, who was the president of St. John's University at that time. And St. John's, as you know, is
a Pontifical university. And I asked Father Harrington, ‘what
percentage of the student body is Roman
Catholic?’ He said, “between fifty and fifty
-
five percent.” So, following the logic of what you're saying,
we are a very, predominantly, Catholic student body here. Now, how do you deal with that? And what
do you want to do? I thought it was telling, with President Weinman's commencement address
Saturday. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make the commencement Saturday. But yesterday, I listened
to his commencement address on Instagram. Yes, I'm on Instagram. It's about a ten minute address.
It was one of the most unique presidential addresses that I'm aware of because the theme of it was
humility.
(
17:54
)
JS
: Wow.
(
17:55
)
JK
: He said, “you're probably wondering why I pick a topic of humility for your commencement
address and the importance of you becoming a humble person.” And he began, almost in the first
paragraph, he said, “here at Marist, we have to return to the principles of our founders, the Marist
Brothers, who always believed in doing good quietly.
(
18:29
)
JS
: Wow.
(
18:30
)
GN:
Makes you cry.
(
18:31
)
JK
: And he went on from that and he talked about what it meant to be humble, in terms of
concern for people, being interested in other people's lives, not making yourself the center of your
own universe. It was an extremely fine address. And I thought, after
I listened to it, that any Marist
Brother or former Marist Brother who would hear Kevin Weinman's address would say, “this man gets
it.” I think it's really hope for the future. So, I think this is a key thing that the College, the Board of
Trustees reall
y, has to talk about. How do we want to define ourselves as an institution moving
forward?
(
19:28
)
GN:
Yeah. I think the danger is: who dictates it? Is it: you want to satisfy the students and
listen to what they want to become? Or: do you want to be an institution where [you] have them follow
you in terms of, “here's what we're teaching.” Such as, do good quietly, but do good and not for myself,
but for your sake. And all of that humility is really Truth: recognizing what
is
. And I like the idea of this
board stepping aside for whenever it is going to be this year, to contemplate and think about what we
want to be. We might have to go back a little bit. Maybe we've gone a little bit off course. Maybe
we'll
be too much into the sciences or computer science, or maybe we want to get back to a little bit more
of philosophy, theology and literature
as well
as making a living.
(
20:34
)
JK
: Right. Well, I think it's a question that so many colleges who would define themselves as
liberal arts colleges are wrestling with across the country. What do we mean by liberal arts? And
what's the relevance of liberal arts today? And I think that's a very basic question. So I'm optimistic. I
don't know if it's a political thing for me to say, and you'll have it on tape, but often at trustees
meetings, if there's a difficult question that arises, I am not surprised that one or more board
members will say, “well, we have to be attentive to the Marist brothers philosophy, or this would not
be in keeping with the Marist Brothers thinking.”
(
21:28
)
JS
: So these are people who are mission driven.
(
21:30
)
JK
: Yeah. You hear this not infrequently,
(
21:34
)
JS
: That's wonderful.
(
21:34
)
JK
: But I asked the question, ‘what do you mean by that? How do you define that?’ So, I think
there would be a wonderful opportunity, and I hope we can do this somehow with the board, of doing
a little in-service about the Marist Brothers philosophy of education and the whole spirituality and the
charism of Marcellin Champagnat for the board, because while people refer to it, I don't think people
really completely understand it. It'd be a wonderful opportunity to ask someone like Brother Seán
Sammon to do a brief workshop.
(
22:20
)
JS
: That should be the first thing on that strategic planning retreat. It has to start there.
(
22:27
)
JK
: I think so.
(
22:28
)
GN:
One of the things I would suggest, also, is just looking at the Marist tradition here. I mean
Paul Ambrose [Fontaine] wrote the charter with his own typewriter, without a secretary, with two
fingers typing it, and got it. And so, I was here when the news c
ame in that we were gonna be a four
year college, primarily in 1946-47. And so, following Paul, you have Linus Foy. Linus Foy was a Marist
Brother, and he took over. When he left, we were not in great financial shape. But Linus had built
Sheahan [Hall], Leo [Hall], Champagnat [Hall], the McCann Center, the Marian building, Greystone.
These buildings were up. So, it's on those shoulders--. You know, Dennis [J. Murray] did a wonderful
job in progressing it, but it was not--. He should get all the credit he deserves and more but let's not
bypass the beginnings of the Brothers actually physically building the chapel. Physically building the
Donnelly building, so I think that's part of that background history that we want to emphasize.
(
23:55
)
JS
: When we're talking about looking back for a minute, can I ask, during the time that you've
been on the Board, what accomplishments of the Board do you think had the biggest impact? Sounds
like you might say that hiring Dr. Weinman was one of them.
(
24:10
)
JK
: Well, I think so. If I can tell a little story, we had been involved in the search process, and I
don't think this is breaking any confidentiality, and we started in October
of 2020. I guess at that point.
We had interviewed a number of people. It was a process. A lot of it was done remotely because of
COVID. We had no alternative. The Spring of 2021, when Dr. Weinman's, among nine other resumes,
came to the group, I remember reading his cover letter and his curriculum vitae, and I had a phone
call, subsequently, with a person on the board. The person said, “well, what do you think about the
resumes that have come in?” I said, ‘go back and read Kevin Weinman's. He's our guy.’
(
25:28
)
JS
: You could tell without meeting him?
(
25:30
)
JK
: Without meeting him. The person said, “do you really think so?” I said, ‘yes. Read Kevin
Weinman's letter. I think he's the person we've been looking for.’ And the rest is history.
(
25:47
)
JS
: What other decisions?
(
25:49
)
JK
: And I think that's, probably going forward, the critical decision, is this particular hire. I think
also, I go back to Ellen Hancock, who I thought was an outstanding member of the Board and an
outstanding Chair. When I first met Ellen, I told some peopl
e recently, I didn't know what to make of
her. She was really a strong personality, but I got to know her very well and respected her a lot. And on
her last day, as Chair of the Board, she gave a talk to two of the trustees. And in it, she said, “one of
ou
r most significant responsibilities is our fiduciary responsibility to the College.” And I think in that
way, the trustees have made, over the years that I've been here, a very significant contribution to the
ongoing stability and future of the College. So, I think that those are two. And then the third, would be
curriculum decisions. I've been fortunate to
be on the Academic Affairs Committee, now for thirteen
years. I've learned a lot through that. And I think initiating some new programs, I think have been
helpful. I think one, just as a case in point, what we've done in terms of health sciences is a major
step forward. So, I think those are three areas. There are others, but I think those are three.
(
27:33
)
GN:
One of the problems, you know, statistically, is the number of students available to go to
college in the future. How do you feel we might be able to attract--? Why pick Marist? What will be our
theme, you think? The tradition? We've just been saying here
now; a certain honesty and simplicity
without the pomp and circumstances of ‘big football’ or ‘big basketball’ but
study
.
(
28:13
)
JK
: Right. In addition to being on the Academic Affairs Committee, I've been on the
Admissions Committee for thirteen years, as well. I think we're fortunate to have Sean Kaylor as a Vice
President for admissions, he’s done a superlative job. He's put together a great team. I think it's
interesting what they emphasize in attracting students. I remember, probably around 2004, I saw the
video that they were showing prospective students, and right at the beginning of the video, they talked
about the Marist Brothers and the tradition of the school. So either consciously or unconsciously,
they were really appealing to a Catholic clientele in a lot of ways. I don't think they do that quite
explicitly today, but that's part of it. I think they really emphasize the core values that we associate
with Marcellin Champagnat, with the Brothers, of family spirit, building of community, respect for
other people, excellence in education and service to others.
(
29:42
)
GN:
Living on a campus, that's just so beautiful. That's a byproduct that comes with the other
things.
(
29:47
)
JK
: Yeah. That's it.
(
29:47
)
JS
: This is related because I know that President Weinman has asked you to serve on the
Diversity and Inclusion--.
(
29:56
)
JK
: That's right.
(
29:57
)
JS
: Inclusivity Committee. I'm not sure I've got the title of that committee right. But can you
talk to us about that?
(
30:04
)
JK
: I can. I'm fortunate to be on that committee. I don't think I made a tremendous
contribution, but I try to do what I can. The person that really has taken the outstanding role there is
Dr. Stanley Harris, who has been on the board for many years. And especially since we were limited to
being able to be on campus. He was the one that conducted a series of interviews with diffe
rent, I put
interest groups on the campus, and helped the Board put together a good response to that. It's
certainly a reaction to the George Floyd incidents, to protests around the country. I would say this, in
reference to Dr. Weinman, one of the questions we asked each of the candidates, prospective
candidates to be president, was about diversity and inclusion. His response was remarkable in that
he really understood, on an intrinsic level, what we refer to today, as underserved populations really
experience when they're in an academic environment.
So, he gets it. I think his commitment now to hiring a new vice president for diversity, equity, and
inclusion, which hopefully will have the person on board sometime this summer, and as a direct
report to him, has elevated the seriousness of that issue moving forward. But Gus, it all is in the
umbrella, I see, of the challenge of recruiting a good student body for the campus today. Because
we're looking at what statistics have told us, beginning in 2023, what they call the ‘enrollment cliff.’
That the number of high school students in the Northeast and the upper Midwest is going to plummet
in one year, and there's no sign of that coming back. So, you're going to have colleges similar to
Marist, for example, who are all going to be competing for a shrinking pool of students. I think we've
done very well but there are--and we have a good size and good academic quality, incoming freshman
class for this upcoming September--
but it's going to become increasingly difficult to do it.
(
33:04
)
GN:
It reminds me of when Linus first came in, it's like, things never change, so we just keep
coming back, the wheel is back again. We were, at the beginning, a college offered pretty much for the
lower-middle class or middle class whose parents had never been to college and so they were the
first ones to come here. The wheel is coming around now, again. We're having more and more
students coming in, who are the first to go to college. Opening the opportunity for them. And to
balance that in terms of tuition a
nd education, you know, we have to keep the boat afloat. But on the
other hand, we can't put up a lot of money on just decorations. It has to be well invested. I think this is
part of the thinking of the Board, to keep it in balance.
(
34:02
)
JK
: Sure. In order to do what we really want to do, and ‘we’ meaning the Trustees, I believe
necessitates a significant increase in the endowment. Now, the endowment has certainly grown, but
it is completely insufficient to do what we want to do here at this
school. Just alone in the level of
trying to recruit competent students, students of color, students from underserved communities, is
going to become an increasing problem. And Marist's challenge moving forward is that we're
essentially a tuition and fee driven institution. And if ten years from now we are essentially a tuition
and fee driven institution, I think we're in trouble.
(
34:56
)
JS
: And I heard exactly that twenty years ago on the Budget Priorities Committee.
(
35:01
)
JK
: Oh, I'm sure you did.
(
35:02
): You know it hasn't changed, that we had to grow the endowment. Where do you think our
funders are? What is the group that would look at Marist and say, “this, I wanna support.”?
(
35:14
)
JK
: Oh, I think there are people that are there. I think the Marist story is one that's compelling. I
remember last night I was looking--. I have a couple of bookshelves in my room, and I saw the yellow
binding of the one book about colleges who create a fut
ure and there were fifty colleges. And the fact
that Marist was one of those fifty is pretty
--. When you think of the thousands of higher institutions of
education in the country, it is significant. I think we have to build on that. I think that we have an
increasing number of alumni that are in financial positions where they might be willing to help us in
extraordinary ways. I think we need another capital campaign. There are beginning to be studies
about that, to do something like that somewhere in the relatively near future. But the endowment is a
key to the future.
(
36:21
)
GN:
Okay. We ought to end here, John, or maybe take a temporary break here. But, I asked the
candidate, “if you had a chance to talk to the Board of Trustees, what would you want to tell them? If
you had a chance to talk to a group of students, what would you ask them about the college?” What
do they think, you know? What do you think they would tell you? Or do you communicate? Is there a
finger out there on the puls
e of the students here? Or, or how would you do that?
(
37:04
)
JK
: Well, I think there aren't a lot of opportunities for trustees to deal directly and interchange
with students. I think we've been fortunate with the young man Tenzin [Tsundu], who was the most
recent President of Student Government, because we did interact with him quite a bit. And I think we
got a good flavor for student thinking through him. I had the good fortune that I had two nieces and
two nephews who attended Marist College. And I got a lot of information from them about what was
really happening here at the college. And what was the student's perspective, and what were their
concerns? And I would say across the board, especially my two nieces had wonderful experiences
here. One of them met her fiancé here at Marist College working on the editorial
team of
The Circle
.
So, it's wonderful. And the students who I have had a chance to speak to, would talk about the
concern of faculty for them, good quality of teaching. I think it's important to note that when
US News
and World Report
do their evaluation of universities, it's a little controversial, you know? They always--
Our competitor schools always put Marist College rated as second in the Northeast in terms of
quality of teaching. And I think that's really what we have to emphasize. Well, the bottom line is, what
happens in the classroom and the quality of teaching. And I think the decision of Kevin Weinman to
move forward on hiring twenty-
two tenure track faculty members is a very significant move. I think the
second is campus ministry. I've gotten to know a few students through campus ministry, and I know
Brother Frank Kelly always mentions that over nine hundred students get involved in some part of
campus ministry. And I think the work that Brother Michael Flanigan has done in terms of the service
component is really wonderful. So, I think that's really an important piece. And somehow if you attend
6:30 Sunday Mass--.
(
39:55
)
JS
: My favorite.
(
39:57
)
JK
: You really get a little feel for students. And not that the crowds are huge, but it’s probably
about one hundred and fifty to two hundred students on a regular basis there. And especially when
Father [Richard] LaMorte is the celebrant, you know they're listening to him. And I remember my one
niece, who I was shocked to find out, went to Sunday Mass on a regular basis. I said to her, “one of the
brothers said he saw you at mass!” She said, “oh, yeah. I go because of Father LaMorte. He always
has something good to say.” And I think the young people are looking for somebody who has
something good to say to them today.
(
40:37
)
GN:
Yeah. Very good. A byproduct of the teaching and that, there seems to be some
discussion about the evaluation of teachers, and there are different key marks about what they do.
Part of it is part of their research and others part of their service. You know? And so, how do you come
down on that? Do you think individual research should out power--? Maybe this is too delicate a
question to answer, but in general, should service be a component? What they do for others as well
as what they're doing for researchers will help themselves be a better teacher, more than likely. But it
may help them move on to someplace else.
(
41:34
)
JK
: Well, I can just refer to my personal experience. That's all I know. I've sat [in] on
conversations for tenure and promotion, as part of the Academic Affairs Committee for thirteen years
and I know the criteria that's used. Many, many conversations about this. And I can tell you that when
the Board looks at the overall applications and the recommendations, from the President or the Vice
President, the Chair, the Dean, the tenure and rank committees, service is a key piece of it. It is key. I
would dare say, I hope I'm right, as I reflect, if there were a professor that was applying for tenure who
has extensive research and publications and no service or minimal service, that person wouldn't be
considered. I don't think we would consider anybody. You have to have that. It's a major part of it. I
think the research and writing is very, very important as well. So, if there's someone, for me, who is
weak on that and very high on service, I'd want both. If the college is going to make that type of life
commitment to somebody and the person is making a life commitment too, to the college, I want to
see both.
(
43:22
)
JS
: So I think the industry standard, if you would call it that, is forty, thirty, thirty. Teaching,
service, scholarship. Would you say that that's what you feel on the board or roughly?
(
43:33
)
JK
: I think so.
(
43:35
)
JS
: Forty, thirty, thirty.
(
43:35
)
JK
: I think so.
(
43:36
)
GN:
Yeah. It's a good balance to it. Well, I have asked you all that I want to ask. Is there
something we didn't ask you that you'd like to say? Hoping that we'll see you again soon to get a part
of this interview.
(
43:50
)
JK
: Well, I look forward to continuing our conversation. I'm happy to do it. I would say that, why
am I happy to do it? It's because I believe in Marist College. I love this place. I know that my nieces
and nephews have benefited tremendously because they we
re here at Marist College. And I think they
are only a few examples of many students who have had a wonderful experience here in a very
healthy and positive environment. For me, being on the Board of Trustees has been a privilege. I have
never attended a trustees meeting, where when I leave, I can't say I learned a lot today. And it's a
privilege to be with some of the finest people I've met. I'm happy to do this because being associated
with Dennis Murray, for whom I have the highest regard.
(
44:58
)
GN:
Good. Well, thank you very much, John.
45:00
)
JK
: Thank you.
Marist College Poughkeepsie, NY
Transcribed by Michael Orsini
For the Marist Archives and Special Collections
Brother John Klein
Transcript – Brother John Klein
Interviewee: Brother John Klein
Interviewer: Gus Nolan, Jan Stivers
Interview Date: May 25, 2022
Location: Marist Archives and Special Collections
Topic: Marist College History
Subject Headings:
Marist College--Administration Marist College--History
Marist Brother--United States--History Marist College (Poughkeepsie, N.Y.)
Marist College--Social Aspects
Summary:
In this interview, Marist alum and Board of Trustees member, Brother John Klein,
discusses his early career and longstanding connection to Marist College. During the interview he
discusses the virtues of the College, the challenges it faces, and what the future holds for Marist.
Brother John Klein
(
00:00
)
Gus Nolan
: It's the Wednesday before Ascension Thursday in the liturgical year. We are
introducing to our archives the recordings of John Klein. He is going to tell us about his career as a
Marist Brother and also his contributions to Marist College, specifically o
n being a member of the
Board of Trustees. With that, John, let's return to our discussion. We finished, we had finished talking
about your research, your doctoral degree and completing your work as a muckraker or something in
the terms--. [Laughter]
(00:49)
Jan Stivers
: Well, also a high school teacher! [Laughter]
(
00:51
)
John Klein
: That’s right.
(
00:52
)
GN
: So, let's pick it up from there. Were you teaching? When did you stop teaching?
(
01:02
)
JK
: Well, what happened is that, in 1980, I received my doctorate. I was assistant principal at
Marist High School in Bayonne, New Jersey. I was asked to return to archbishop one as the assistant
principal for academics. I did teach American History one year while doing that job, but in a school of
1,650 boys, the academic assistant principal really needed to be a full-time position. I loved the work,
learned a great deal, and was fortunate again in my career to have brothers, in particular, who were
great mentors to me. In this case, it was Brother James Moore, who was the principal, and I was the
assistant principal. And after six years, the provincial and provincial counsel asked me to become the
principal at Archbishop Molloy. And at that time, we had a province policy that the principal could not
stay more than six years.
(
02:19
)
JK
: You may recall, Gus. It was two, three-year terms. That was the maximum time. It was a
great time for me. I really enjoyed it. I loved the students. Students used to say that I knew everybody's
name, but I didn't. But I knew 1200! [Laughter] I knew 1200
kids, by first name and a little bit about
them.
(
02:46
)
JS
: You mean sophomores, juniors, and seniors?
(
02:48
)
JK
: And freshmen. All the way through. Some I just never really got to know the names. And if I
can just share why I thought it was important to know the names. It was a lesson I'd learned my first
day of teaching. I was at St. Helena's. I was so nervous. We were all sent out from the College a year
early without degrees. This was counting as our student teaching. I had never taught a class before
and I'm walking with a brother from the brother's residence to the school building. And there was a
little garden area. Remember the circle, in front of the brother's house? And a brother pointed out a
student to me, and he said, “you see that kid over there? He's the wildest kid in the school.” And I
remember, and I don't mind saying his name, Willard Varian. He said, “he's so wild. He used to smoke
as a sophomore in religion class!” [Laughter] That made me more nervous because I knew from my
class list, he was in the first period that I was going to teach! [Laughter] So the school building at St.
Helena's was built
prior to the Civil War. Essentially, the way you got from one floor to the other, was
an outdoor fire escape.
(04:14)
GN
: Oh, geez.
(04:16)
JK
: And my class was on the fifth floor in the corner. So I walked up the fire escape. I get into
the classroom. It was shortened periods the first day. I'm at my desk, nervous. The students are
coming in, and I look and I see Willard Varian sitting in the second to the last seat in the row next to
the windows. And he turned and he made a comment to a student. And I looked up and I said, ‘Mr.
Varian, turn around in your seat.’ And I heard a student off to the side said, “oh no! He knows our
names!” [Laughter] I knew the name of one student in that entire school. Well, I want to say Willard
Varian was a wonderful young man. People didn't know [him]. And, I got to know him. He had a pretty
tough, growing up and took a lot of responsibility for his family. And up until recently, I've been in
touch for fi
fty years with Willard Varian, who became a wonderful student, became a master sergeant
in the Marine Corps, and was an officer in the New York State Troopers. And I learned there, if you
know somebody's name, you're saying to them, you're important to me. And I hoped, a little bit by
example, I was showing that to other faculty and staff members at the school. But I worked very hard
to get to know their names and it showed that they were important. And it was a great time at Malloy, I
think we did a number of wonderful things. And it was at that time, the school was named a Blue
Ribbon School by the Federal Department of Education. And I had the opportunity of going down and
receiving the award from President Reagan. At the convocation, I was asked to give this speech on
behalf of all the principals of the schools that were cited. So it was a great experience.
(
06:40
)
GN:
You should write that story up, record it publicly and send it, never mind selling it, send it
to all the new teachers that are coming out, you know? The first step towards making it; is knowing the
people you're dealing with.
(
06:56
)
JS
: And I think it's a theme that I hope would come back to, this idea that I have heard you
express before, about the essential need for community. The essential Marist charism of establishing
community. And how do you do that? The first way is to learn their names.
(
07:18
)
JK
: Learn their names and show that they're important. If I can just jump ahead a little bit, I'll
tell you, I had the very good fortune of being on the most recent presidential search committee that
led to the hiring of Kevin Weinman. I learned a lot throug
h that process. It was difficult. It was many
months of hard work, but I got to know a number of staff and faculty members here at Marist.
Listening to them, and now I consider them friends. I go out with them, like for lunch and things. In so
many ways, these people still embody the charism of the Marist Brothers and their concern for
students. It's really remarkable to me. So that's just jumping ahead a little bit.
(
08:14
)
GN:
Yeah. That kind of leads us where we want to go, to where we are now. What about Marist
tod
ay? What would you say about Marist today? It's different from when you were here.
(
08:28
)
JK
: Oh, it's different.
(
08:29
)
GN:
So we’re saying, ‘okay, in what ways are it different?’ Let's look at the positive aspects of
it? What are some of the, three or four of the things that's made Marist, mature, develop, at present.
You would say--?
(
08:48
)
JK
: Well, I'll give a little segue into my answer to your question, if that's okay, because when I
finished my term as principal of Molloy, I thought I was coming to Marist College. I had actually
applied for a teaching position here at Marist. And what very few people know, I didn't get an interview
when I applied. And one administrator--I was surprised that I, at least, wasn't called for an interview--
and an administrator told me, “well, you know, hiring is kind of a capricious process.” I remember the
adjective that was used. So I was talking to Dennis Murray a little bit, and my plan was, even if I didn't
get the teaching position, I believed my future was at Marist College. I was in preliminary conversation
with Dennis of maybe working with him, but it never got further than a preliminary conversation
because--.
(
09:52
)
JS
: What year was this?
(
09:53
)
JK
: That would've been in 1986. No, 1992.
(
10:00
)
JS
: ‘92.
(
10:03
)
GN:
‘92, yeah. He has been here a number of years now. He came in ‘78, I guess. So he's here
twelve years, so far. Got it.
(
10:08
)
JK
: That's correct. But I never got to come to Marist College because the Marist Brothers in our
province of Esopus intervened and I was elected provincial. So that was
the first of four different
terms as provincial. But in 2004, I had actually become provincial once again as a new province of the
United States of America. And at that point, Dennis Murray invited me to join the Board of Trustees. So
I've been on the boar
d from 2004 until 2009; I had to leave the board because I was elected to the
General Counsel of the Marist Brothers of Rome. The superior general, even though I asked, ‘please,
let me stay on the Marist College Board, it is the one thing I really value so much,’ he said “no.” So I left
the board. And when I finished at the General Council in 2013, Dennis Murray and Ellen Hancock
invited me to return to the board. I have the distinction, I put in quotes, of being the only trustee that
had been on the board, left the board, and was invited to return to the board! [Laughter] and I've been
on the board ever since. So that's a little background, but to get more germane to your question, in
looking at the college, I really only see positive things. And what are the positive things? One is--
primarily because of Dennis and, I would say, Marilyn as well because I think she probably hasn't
received sufficient credit for the impact that she has had on the college
--that they maintained the
values that really started wi
th Brother Zephiriny, when he first purchased the property here, and the
early brothers. [They] maintained the Marist Brothers philosophy and tradition and charism, here at
the college. I think we were fortunate because for many years we had a good core group of brothers
and former brothers, who were here on the campus, and they maintained that as well. I think the
challenge moving forward is how do you be true to the founding principles and values of the college in
a very different, changing world and real
ity here. Here, as the number of Marist Brothers on the
campus has been diminished. We are fortunate to have the novitiate here, a number of brothers
around, and brothers on the board. So, I think that's one of the big challenges. I think it's one of the
strengths of the college and I remember saying at a recent board meeting that I think the biggest
challenge of the college moving forward is answering the question of ‘what does Marist College want
to be as it moves forward into the next five and ten years?
What type of place do we want to be? How
do we want to define the College?’ It is the critical issue for the future of the college, I think.
(
13:57
)
JS
: How would you want that question answered?
(
14:00
)
JK
: I think, I think the question has to be answered on a number of levels. I think first the
trustees have to really grapple with that question: what do we want to be and what do we hope the
college will be? And this coming September, I think September 23rd, if I remember correctly, the
trustees are going to begin a two-day process of some strategic planning, a strategic planning retreat.
And that, I think, is a core question. My fear for the college is that if we're just another good, solid
liberal arts Northeast institution, we're not gonna have a strong future. I know that technically we are
not a Catholic college. For years we said we were an independent college in the Catholic and Marist
Brothers tradition. Now, the wording has changed a bit, but many of the students who are here, when
they're asked in a survey by the campus ministry office [for their] religious affiliation, high sixty to
seventy percent would say they're Roman Catholic, whatever that means in today's world. So, I think
we have this--. I'm not advocating that we become an explicitly Catholic university, but I think we have
to look at the Catholic and the Marist Brothers values and tradition as the fundamental underpinnings
of the College. And how do we translate that [to] today?
(
16:00
)
GN:
I’ll just interject a thought here, and that is, I asked Richard LaMorte at one time, ‘are we a
Catholic college?’ And he put the question this way: If seventy-
five percent of the college was black,
would you say it's a black college? If seventy-
five perce
nt was Jewish, would you say it's a Jewish
college? Well, we have more than seventy-
five percent Catholic students here. And in that sense,
that's the abiding presence. It's more Catholic than Notre Dame in terms of student body.
(
16:34
)
JK
: Well, it's--.
(
16:35
)
GN:
But still, go ahead.
(
16:36
)
JK
: Well, I would agree with you. For example, a few years ago, I had a meeting with Father
Harrington, who was the president of St. John's University at that time. And St. John's, as you know, is
a Pontifical university. And I asked Father Harrington, ‘what
percentage of the student body is Roman
Catholic?’ He said, “between fifty and fifty
-
five percent.” So, following the logic of what you're saying,
we are a very, predominantly, Catholic student body here. Now, how do you deal with that? And what
do you want to do? I thought it was telling, with President Weinman's commencement address
Saturday. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make the commencement Saturday. But yesterday, I listened
to his commencement address on Instagram. Yes, I'm on Instagram. It's about a ten minute address.
It was one of the most unique presidential addresses that I'm aware of because the theme of it was
humility.
(
17:54
)
JS
: Wow.
(
17:55
)
JK
: He said, “you're probably wondering why I pick a topic of humility for your commencement
address and the importance of you becoming a humble person.” And he began, almost in the first
paragraph, he said, “here at Marist, we have to return to the principles of our founders, the Marist
Brothers, who always believed in doing good quietly.
(
18:29
)
JS
: Wow.
(
18:30
)
GN:
Makes you cry.
(
18:31
)
JK
: And he went on from that and he talked about what it meant to be humble, in terms of
concern for people, being interested in other people's lives, not making yourself the center of your
own universe. It was an extremely fine address. And I thought, after
I listened to it, that any Marist
Brother or former Marist Brother who would hear Kevin Weinman's address would say, “this man gets
it.” I think it's really hope for the future. So, I think this is a key thing that the College, the Board of
Trustees reall
y, has to talk about. How do we want to define ourselves as an institution moving
forward?
(
19:28
)
GN:
Yeah. I think the danger is: who dictates it? Is it: you want to satisfy the students and
listen to what they want to become? Or: do you want to be an institution where [you] have them follow
you in terms of, “here's what we're teaching.” Such as, do good quietly, but do good and not for myself,
but for your sake. And all of that humility is really Truth: recognizing what
is
. And I like the idea of this
board stepping aside for whenever it is going to be this year, to contemplate and think about what we
want to be. We might have to go back a little bit. Maybe we've gone a little bit off course. Maybe
we'll
be too much into the sciences or computer science, or maybe we want to get back to a little bit more
of philosophy, theology and literature
as well
as making a living.
(
20:34
)
JK
: Right. Well, I think it's a question that so many colleges who would define themselves as
liberal arts colleges are wrestling with across the country. What do we mean by liberal arts? And
what's the relevance of liberal arts today? And I think that's a very basic question. So I'm optimistic. I
don't know if it's a political thing for me to say, and you'll have it on tape, but often at trustees
meetings, if there's a difficult question that arises, I am not surprised that one or more board
members will say, “well, we have to be attentive to the Marist brothers philosophy, or this would not
be in keeping with the Marist Brothers thinking.”
(
21:28
)
JS
: So these are people who are mission driven.
(
21:30
)
JK
: Yeah. You hear this not infrequently,
(
21:34
)
JS
: That's wonderful.
(
21:34
)
JK
: But I asked the question, ‘what do you mean by that? How do you define that?’ So, I think
there would be a wonderful opportunity, and I hope we can do this somehow with the board, of doing
a little in-service about the Marist Brothers philosophy of education and the whole spirituality and the
charism of Marcellin Champagnat for the board, because while people refer to it, I don't think people
really completely understand it. It'd be a wonderful opportunity to ask someone like Brother Seán
Sammon to do a brief workshop.
(
22:20
)
JS
: That should be the first thing on that strategic planning retreat. It has to start there.
(
22:27
)
JK
: I think so.
(
22:28
)
GN:
One of the things I would suggest, also, is just looking at the Marist tradition here. I mean
Paul Ambrose [Fontaine] wrote the charter with his own typewriter, without a secretary, with two
fingers typing it, and got it. And so, I was here when the news c
ame in that we were gonna be a four
year college, primarily in 1946-47. And so, following Paul, you have Linus Foy. Linus Foy was a Marist
Brother, and he took over. When he left, we were not in great financial shape. But Linus had built
Sheahan [Hall], Leo [Hall], Champagnat [Hall], the McCann Center, the Marian building, Greystone.
These buildings were up. So, it's on those shoulders--. You know, Dennis [J. Murray] did a wonderful
job in progressing it, but it was not--. He should get all the credit he deserves and more but let's not
bypass the beginnings of the Brothers actually physically building the chapel. Physically building the
Donnelly building, so I think that's part of that background history that we want to emphasize.
(
23:55
)
JS
: When we're talking about looking back for a minute, can I ask, during the time that you've
been on the Board, what accomplishments of the Board do you think had the biggest impact? Sounds
like you might say that hiring Dr. Weinman was one of them.
(
24:10
)
JK
: Well, I think so. If I can tell a little story, we had been involved in the search process, and I
don't think this is breaking any confidentiality, and we started in October
of 2020. I guess at that point.
We had interviewed a number of people. It was a process. A lot of it was done remotely because of
COVID. We had no alternative. The Spring of 2021, when Dr. Weinman's, among nine other resumes,
came to the group, I remember reading his cover letter and his curriculum vitae, and I had a phone
call, subsequently, with a person on the board. The person said, “well, what do you think about the
resumes that have come in?” I said, ‘go back and read Kevin Weinman's. He's our guy.’
(
25:28
)
JS
: You could tell without meeting him?
(
25:30
)
JK
: Without meeting him. The person said, “do you really think so?” I said, ‘yes. Read Kevin
Weinman's letter. I think he's the person we've been looking for.’ And the rest is history.
(
25:47
)
JS
: What other decisions?
(
25:49
)
JK
: And I think that's, probably going forward, the critical decision, is this particular hire. I think
also, I go back to Ellen Hancock, who I thought was an outstanding member of the Board and an
outstanding Chair. When I first met Ellen, I told some peopl
e recently, I didn't know what to make of
her. She was really a strong personality, but I got to know her very well and respected her a lot. And on
her last day, as Chair of the Board, she gave a talk to two of the trustees. And in it, she said, “one of
ou
r most significant responsibilities is our fiduciary responsibility to the College.” And I think in that
way, the trustees have made, over the years that I've been here, a very significant contribution to the
ongoing stability and future of the College. So, I think that those are two. And then the third, would be
curriculum decisions. I've been fortunate to
be on the Academic Affairs Committee, now for thirteen
years. I've learned a lot through that. And I think initiating some new programs, I think have been
helpful. I think one, just as a case in point, what we've done in terms of health sciences is a major
step forward. So, I think those are three areas. There are others, but I think those are three.
(
27:33
)
GN:
One of the problems, you know, statistically, is the number of students available to go to
college in the future. How do you feel we might be able to attract--? Why pick Marist? What will be our
theme, you think? The tradition? We've just been saying here
now; a certain honesty and simplicity
without the pomp and circumstances of ‘big football’ or ‘big basketball’ but
study
.
(
28:13
)
JK
: Right. In addition to being on the Academic Affairs Committee, I've been on the
Admissions Committee for thirteen years, as well. I think we're fortunate to have Sean Kaylor as a Vice
President for admissions, he’s done a superlative job. He's put together a great team. I think it's
interesting what they emphasize in attracting students. I remember, probably around 2004, I saw the
video that they were showing prospective students, and right at the beginning of the video, they talked
about the Marist Brothers and the tradition of the school. So either consciously or unconsciously,
they were really appealing to a Catholic clientele in a lot of ways. I don't think they do that quite
explicitly today, but that's part of it. I think they really emphasize the core values that we associate
with Marcellin Champagnat, with the Brothers, of family spirit, building of community, respect for
other people, excellence in education and service to others.
(
29:42
)
GN:
Living on a campus, that's just so beautiful. That's a byproduct that comes with the other
things.
(
29:47
)
JK
: Yeah. That's it.
(
29:47
)
JS
: This is related because I know that President Weinman has asked you to serve on the
Diversity and Inclusion--.
(
29:56
)
JK
: That's right.
(
29:57
)
JS
: Inclusivity Committee. I'm not sure I've got the title of that committee right. But can you
talk to us about that?
(
30:04
)
JK
: I can. I'm fortunate to be on that committee. I don't think I made a tremendous
contribution, but I try to do what I can. The person that really has taken the outstanding role there is
Dr. Stanley Harris, who has been on the board for many years. And especially since we were limited to
being able to be on campus. He was the one that conducted a series of interviews with diffe
rent, I put
interest groups on the campus, and helped the Board put together a good response to that. It's
certainly a reaction to the George Floyd incidents, to protests around the country. I would say this, in
reference to Dr. Weinman, one of the questions we asked each of the candidates, prospective
candidates to be president, was about diversity and inclusion. His response was remarkable in that
he really understood, on an intrinsic level, what we refer to today, as underserved populations really
experience when they're in an academic environment.
So, he gets it. I think his commitment now to hiring a new vice president for diversity, equity, and
inclusion, which hopefully will have the person on board sometime this summer, and as a direct
report to him, has elevated the seriousness of that issue moving forward. But Gus, it all is in the
umbrella, I see, of the challenge of recruiting a good student body for the campus today. Because
we're looking at what statistics have told us, beginning in 2023, what they call the ‘enrollment cliff.’
That the number of high school students in the Northeast and the upper Midwest is going to plummet
in one year, and there's no sign of that coming back. So, you're going to have colleges similar to
Marist, for example, who are all going to be competing for a shrinking pool of students. I think we've
done very well but there are--and we have a good size and good academic quality, incoming freshman
class for this upcoming September--
but it's going to become increasingly difficult to do it.
(
33:04
)
GN:
It reminds me of when Linus first came in, it's like, things never change, so we just keep
coming back, the wheel is back again. We were, at the beginning, a college offered pretty much for the
lower-middle class or middle class whose parents had never been to college and so they were the
first ones to come here. The wheel is coming around now, again. We're having more and more
students coming in, who are the first to go to college. Opening the opportunity for them. And to
balance that in terms of tuition a
nd education, you know, we have to keep the boat afloat. But on the
other hand, we can't put up a lot of money on just decorations. It has to be well invested. I think this is
part of the thinking of the Board, to keep it in balance.
(
34:02
)
JK
: Sure. In order to do what we really want to do, and ‘we’ meaning the Trustees, I believe
necessitates a significant increase in the endowment. Now, the endowment has certainly grown, but
it is completely insufficient to do what we want to do here at this
school. Just alone in the level of
trying to recruit competent students, students of color, students from underserved communities, is
going to become an increasing problem. And Marist's challenge moving forward is that we're
essentially a tuition and fee driven institution. And if ten years from now we are essentially a tuition
and fee driven institution, I think we're in trouble.
(
34:56
)
JS
: And I heard exactly that twenty years ago on the Budget Priorities Committee.
(
35:01
)
JK
: Oh, I'm sure you did.
(
35:02
): You know it hasn't changed, that we had to grow the endowment. Where do you think our
funders are? What is the group that would look at Marist and say, “this, I wanna support.”?
(
35:14
)
JK
: Oh, I think there are people that are there. I think the Marist story is one that's compelling. I
remember last night I was looking--. I have a couple of bookshelves in my room, and I saw the yellow
binding of the one book about colleges who create a fut
ure and there were fifty colleges. And the fact
that Marist was one of those fifty is pretty
--. When you think of the thousands of higher institutions of
education in the country, it is significant. I think we have to build on that. I think that we have an
increasing number of alumni that are in financial positions where they might be willing to help us in
extraordinary ways. I think we need another capital campaign. There are beginning to be studies
about that, to do something like that somewhere in the relatively near future. But the endowment is a
key to the future.
(
36:21
)
GN:
Okay. We ought to end here, John, or maybe take a temporary break here. But, I asked the
candidate, “if you had a chance to talk to the Board of Trustees, what would you want to tell them? If
you had a chance to talk to a group of students, what would you ask them about the college?” What
do they think, you know? What do you think they would tell you? Or do you communicate? Is there a
finger out there on the puls
e of the students here? Or, or how would you do that?
(
37:04
)
JK
: Well, I think there aren't a lot of opportunities for trustees to deal directly and interchange
with students. I think we've been fortunate with the young man Tenzin [Tsundu], who was the most
recent President of Student Government, because we did interact with him quite a bit. And I think we
got a good flavor for student thinking through him. I had the good fortune that I had two nieces and
two nephews who attended Marist College. And I got a lot of information from them about what was
really happening here at the college. And what was the student's perspective, and what were their
concerns? And I would say across the board, especially my two nieces had wonderful experiences
here. One of them met her fiancé here at Marist College working on the editorial
team of
The Circle
.
So, it's wonderful. And the students who I have had a chance to speak to, would talk about the
concern of faculty for them, good quality of teaching. I think it's important to note that when
US News
and World Report
do their evaluation of universities, it's a little controversial, you know? They always--
Our competitor schools always put Marist College rated as second in the Northeast in terms of
quality of teaching. And I think that's really what we have to emphasize. Well, the bottom line is, what
happens in the classroom and the quality of teaching. And I think the decision of Kevin Weinman to
move forward on hiring twenty-
two tenure track faculty members is a very significant move. I think the
second is campus ministry. I've gotten to know a few students through campus ministry, and I know
Brother Frank Kelly always mentions that over nine hundred students get involved in some part of
campus ministry. And I think the work that Brother Michael Flanigan has done in terms of the service
component is really wonderful. So, I think that's really an important piece. And somehow if you attend
6:30 Sunday Mass--.
(
39:55
)
JS
: My favorite.
(
39:57
)
JK
: You really get a little feel for students. And not that the crowds are huge, but it’s probably
about one hundred and fifty to two hundred students on a regular basis there. And especially when
Father [Richard] LaMorte is the celebrant, you know they're listening to him. And I remember my one
niece, who I was shocked to find out, went to Sunday Mass on a regular basis. I said to her, “one of the
brothers said he saw you at mass!” She said, “oh, yeah. I go because of Father LaMorte. He always
has something good to say.” And I think the young people are looking for somebody who has
something good to say to them today.
(
40:37
)
GN:
Yeah. Very good. A byproduct of the teaching and that, there seems to be some
discussion about the evaluation of teachers, and there are different key marks about what they do.
Part of it is part of their research and others part of their service. You know? And so, how do you come
down on that? Do you think individual research should out power--? Maybe this is too delicate a
question to answer, but in general, should service be a component? What they do for others as well
as what they're doing for researchers will help themselves be a better teacher, more than likely. But it
may help them move on to someplace else.
(
41:34
)
JK
: Well, I can just refer to my personal experience. That's all I know. I've sat [in] on
conversations for tenure and promotion, as part of the Academic Affairs Committee for thirteen years
and I know the criteria that's used. Many, many conversations about this. And I can tell you that when
the Board looks at the overall applications and the recommendations, from the President or the Vice
President, the Chair, the Dean, the tenure and rank committees, service is a key piece of it. It is key. I
would dare say, I hope I'm right, as I reflect, if there were a professor that was applying for tenure who
has extensive research and publications and no service or minimal service, that person wouldn't be
considered. I don't think we would consider anybody. You have to have that. It's a major part of it. I
think the research and writing is very, very important as well. So, if there's someone, for me, who is
weak on that and very high on service, I'd want both. If the college is going to make that type of life
commitment to somebody and the person is making a life commitment too, to the college, I want to
see both.
(
43:22
)
JS
: So I think the industry standard, if you would call it that, is forty, thirty, thirty. Teaching,
service, scholarship. Would you say that that's what you feel on the board or roughly?
(
43:33
)
JK
: I think so.
(
43:35
)
JS
: Forty, thirty, thirty.
(
43:35
)
JK
: I think so.
(
43:36
)
GN:
Yeah. It's a good balance to it. Well, I have asked you all that I want to ask. Is there
something we didn't ask you that you'd like to say? Hoping that we'll see you again soon to get a part
of this interview.
(
43:50
)
JK
: Well, I look forward to continuing our conversation. I'm happy to do it. I would say that, why
am I happy to do it? It's because I believe in Marist College. I love this place. I know that my nieces
and nephews have benefited tremendously because they we
re here at Marist College. And I think they
are only a few examples of many students who have had a wonderful experience here in a very
healthy and positive environment. For me, being on the Board of Trustees has been a privilege. I have
never attended a trustees meeting, where when I leave, I can't say I learned a lot today. And it's a
privilege to be with some of the finest people I've met. I'm happy to do this because being associated
with Dennis Murray, for whom I have the highest regard.
(
44:58
)
GN:
Good. Well, thank you very much, John.
45:00
)
JK
: Thank you.